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I disagree. How many of us are yet to buy Guardians for our Custodes armies?... And how many of us are itching to add Sisters? Yeah, I can totally see GW doing that. Also, I’d prob run 2x10 Sisters and 10 Guardians anyway as my battalion. Guardians are still very good units, (especially with some nice stratagem support), if means we don’t have to run our troops as 3x3 mono shields then I’m all for it.

As for FW being in this release. 0% chance of that imo. We’re stuck with overly nerfed/ineffective Dreadnoughts and lacklustre/overpriced tanks for the foreseeable future.

I have 3x3 squads of guardians, I don't see why anyone who plays Purestodians right now wouldn't.

I just finished my Custodes army last night actually.

I'm running 2 units of 3 Guardians with Pyrithite Spears in a Coronus and 1 unit of 3 Sagitaurum to hold the rear objective as my troops.

Not sure how much success I'll get out of them but It's only semi-competitive.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have 3x3 squads of guardians, I don't see why anyone who plays Purestodians right now wouldn't.

Most guys have all the guardians they need right now, I agree. But it really depends what we are going to get in war of the spider which is going to determine whether people want to stack up on their spear custodian guards for example. Maybe they get crazy good for some reason with some new rule or stratagem and suddenly everyone wants to play them in larger squads because they actually pose a threat.
Maybe everyone will want to play 10 wardens with the new update, it all depends on what we are going to get.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have 3x3 squads of guardians, I don't see why anyone who plays Purestodians right now wouldn't.

Because guardians are slow and have no good shooting.

Yeah 3x3 Custodian Guard has only ever been effective in 1000 point games for me. Anything more and they just die before doing much.

My Custodian guard are almost always just a big blob of Wardens now. CP be damned.

The value of cheaper troops won’t be as much for the CP as it will for the screening to push back deep strikers and charging units. And if that screen can stop a whole bunch of smites too, that’s a bonus.

I tried Bridger Hahn’s double battalion with 25 guard in it, did quite well. I always try to take more than 3x3 but it’s often at the expense of other units. I wanted to try 5x2 & 10 then some Allarus as a variant and then this bloody virus hit.

If we could deepstrike for free... I wonder if that would change things enough for us?

Well given the seeming everyone gets a deepstrike for free rules dropping for Astartes, I always was left wondering when FGLTC would go back to it's oG version of Turn 1. If GK can do a 4" DS, we should be allowed to as well. Also, we need a transport with the assault rule. It's baffling to me that Primaris Marines are currently better at getting into melee than Custodes.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well given the seeming everyone gets a deepstrike for free rules dropping for Astartes, I always was left wondering when FGLTC would go back to it's oG version of Turn 1. If GK can do a 4" DS, we should be allowed to as well. Also, we need a transport with the assault rule. It's baffling to me that Primaris Marines are currently better at getting into melee than Custodes.

You do realize you can't charge from an Impulsor that moved, right?

Is there a massive difference between what the Impulsar can do turn 1 now, and what FGLTC used to be able to do turn 1? Not to mention GK, or the new Drop pod beta rules? Are the beta rules confirmed or is that still up in the air? I'm just saying we should be able to turn 1 DS if Astartes are able to. Or give us a vehicle that does.

And to the person who says our shooting sucks, have you taken a look at our multi-melta spears, or our HB profile standard issue bolter conversions? Our shooting is not the single most OP thing on earth, but I still say Sag Guardians and guardians with melta spears can earn their pts back very quickly.

Drop pods can deepstrike turn 1.
GK, like GSC have a strat that allows them to deepstrike outside 3” rather than 9”...still subject to turn restrictions and can’t charge after.
You can disembark from an impulsor after it moves, however you cannot charge that turn.

All of those are typically used for Suicide units with high shooting/psychic damage output.

Our issues with DS are part of our bigger problem of mobility and dealing with screens. Since DS leaves you horribly exposed and screening is a thing in any decent list we need some way to drop in and charge that doesn’t cost 3+ CP. It’s as simple as that. We struggle for CP as an army and usually want to tanglefoot something twice a turn or throw out an opportunistic stooping dive or piercing strike so our 4-8 CP doesn’t extend to spending lots of CPs doing other things armies can do for free... never mind using blood games.

Another issue is too many of our weapons are Dd3. Everything should just be D2 or D3. Period. I’d make basic spears rapid fire 2 S4 D2. In melee the same profile but flat D3. Then add a strat to make 5+ hit do an extra hit in shooting OR melee. Might give us a way to use basic spear guardians to remove swarms and still put out some damage to tough units.

Melta spears sadly aren’t really much of a solution because of invul saves. I’ve tried 5 guys with melta spears and they just whiff. Those 5 shots look great doing 5xd6 wounds on paper and then you realise only 2 get through and you roll bad. YMMV obviously.

EDIT: I really think that GW have a task on their hands with Custodes. By pushing SM up to the levels of killy they have they’ve left us in a tough spot. They won’t want to make us OP so they may well just leave us be and make some small changes using the Talons keyword. I at least hope we lose the random damage we have on so many of our weapons. Dd3 just needs to go.

Right now we suffer from our cost, and our durability. I would be willing to go from a 3++ to a 4++ if it meant I would cost less or just hit harder. Right now Wardens have a stupid cost efficiency rating. I wish someone in Sabermetrics could create a coefficient that details per point how effective a unit is. Because Custodes have to be the Oakland A's of 40k.

Personally I’d argue that what really holds us back is cost efficient mobility that doesn’t draw a target and a lack of any defensive stratagems tanglefoot aside, just looking at what either the books that have stayed decent like eldar have or the new marine lists we don’t have ways to heal wounds,have little access to fnp and don’t have strats to mitigate the damage the inevitably makes it through the invul saves

Shinymarine wrote:
Personally I’d argue that what really holds us back is cost efficient mobility that doesn’t draw a target and a lack of any defensive stratagems tanglefoot aside, just looking at what either the books that have stayed decent like eldar have or the new marine lists we don’t have ways to heal wounds,have little access to fnp and don’t have strats to mitigate the damage the inevitably makes it through the invul saves

Yeah agree, this is what I’d like to see...

Talons keyword. Custodes units keep Aegis and Chosen of the Emperor.

A Sisters elite or HQ character that can be tucked in amongst Custodes units for cheapish psychic defence.

New Vexilla: Gives all units within 6” 5+++ (can be buffed to 12” for 1CP)
New Strat: 2CP - that unit halves all damage taken to a min of 1.
New Strat: 1CP- Shooting from spear, sword, axe. Each 4+ to hit does 2 hits & each 6 to hit does 3 hits.
New Strat: 1CP - Spears forgo +1S, -3Ap D3 (cos it should be flat 3 now) for double the amount of attacks at S user AP1 D1.
New Strat: 3CP - unit can move, advance, and charge

Bringers of Emperors Justice: 6+ all units, 4+ Chaos keyword
Vexilla Teleporter Homer: 1CP per unit

All Dd3 made D2 or D3.

I like it all except spears. We already have less then expected results from most guardian attacks, let's not completely nerf them. Also, at that point, what is the benefit of spears over sword/shield. 6 attacks per model would be hilariously broken for Wardens.

I can proffer this strat I saw suggested for Custodes, anti-horde needs:

"Rise to the occaision" - 3CP. In the fight phase, the chosen Custodes non-HQ Infantry unit gets an extra ammount of attacks equal to the difference in the number of models between the attacking and the defending unit."

This would make a single Guardian with a spear get 19 extra attacks against say, a Cultist blob. But to be fair, A Single custodian could, can, and routinely does, destroy entire groups of cultists/traitor guard, or zenos.

That would be just sick...

I'd suggest same like Cyclone melta? for Leviathans or the other weapon so 1 additional attack for each 5 models in enemy unit. With fresh ork mob that would be 6 additional attacks... more realistic for GW, or even 1 per each 10 models...

Lol, giving them extra attacks for the difference in models would be too broken. 6 guard vs 30 ork boyz would get what... 162 attacks!? No that won’t work. The idea of +1 attack per every 5-10 models would work though as a 1CP strat.

My idea behind the spear was that they could have two profiles for melee. One that we’re familiar with S+1 AP3 D2 or D3 (just not Dd3) and then a weaker one that does more attacks (S-user AP1 D1). Sword and shield would still have their place for the 3++ and being able to shoot in combat - let’s be honest if we could take spear and shield we would.

I actually think we need something solid for defence besides a FNP Vexilla. Maybe a way to get -1 to wound like Harlequins can get. A Wardlord trait or Vexilla that gave all incoming wounds -1 to wound would be good.

Also as it stands right now mortal wounds are just far too powerful against us. Those new Ork bombers are sick, 3 mortal wounds to all units within 6” just murders Custodes.

As much as I'd love a change to the damage of our melee weapons, I just can't see this happening. Have any of the other PA books fundamentally changed weapon rules on an army-wide scale?

If we get rules for different shield hosts, there's scope for it. A trait for +1 damage to melee weapons, for example. If there were other options, such as improved resistance to shooting or mortal wounds, and something that increases the speed of infantry, then it would create some legitimate choices between the traits. Again, I'm hopeful for something like this but I don't think it's particularly likely.

Realistically, we'll get some form of Talons rule (which will make SoS troops if we're lucky), some extra stratagems, and maybe some new warlord traits. Anything beyond that is just pipe dreaming at this point, given how underwhelming some of the other updates have been.

Sure, some factions have got good, comprehensive rules (GK and Eldar, for example), but most of them haven't added enough to change the overall competitiveness of the faction. In the interest of avoiding disappointment, I'm limiting my expectations.

Robtype0 wrote:
As much as I'd love a change to the damage of our melee weapons, I just can't see this happening. Have any of the other PA books fundamentally changed weapon rules on an army-wide scale?

If we get rules for different shield hosts, there's scope for it. A trait for +1 damage to melee weapons, for example. If there were other options, such as improved resistance to shooting or mortal wounds, and something that increases the speed of infantry, then it would create some legitimate choices between the traits. Again, I'm hopeful for something like this but I don't think it's particularly likely.

Realistically, we'll get some form of Talons rule (which will make SoS troops if we're lucky), some extra stratagems, and maybe some new warlord traits. Anything beyond that is just pipe dreaming at this point, given how underwhelming some of the other updates have been.

Sure, some factions have got good, comprehensive rules (GK and Eldar, for example), but most of them haven't added enough to change the overall competitiveness of the faction. In the interest of avoiding disappointment, I'm limiting my expectations.

Agreed I find it highly unlikely they’ll change any weapon profiles, statlines point costs and I doubt we’ll get warlord traits either but what we will get, stratagems and relics should assuming it’s not all sisters related give us a pretty solid boost, we have some very good stratagems and relics but most are way too niche to consider using regularly, likewise even updating our special rules to include dreads and tanks would give the book a pretty decent bump

The Melta missiles on bikes really only need a small overhaul to be useful

Change both to Assault from Heavy
Melta goes to d3 shots
The Flakkburst missiles go to 2d3 shots.

It bothers me heavily that from some inane reason we don’t have a single assault weapon profile on any of our bikes or tanks. Likewise confused as to why we can’t have multiple weapon profiles for all of our equipment, we have a small range of models and haven’t been an army long, it feels like gw and forgeworld both missed the boat, if you won’t make a unit without it having a model, and have a small range make weapons with lots of profiles that look the same

 iGuy91 wrote:
The Melta missiles on bikes really only need a small overhaul to be useful

Change both to Assault from Heavy
Melta goes to d3 shots
The Flakkburst missiles go to 2d3 shots.

This is a really good point. I have never used anything other than hurricane bolters, and the one time I played against someone who did, it was only because he'd modelled them that way before reading the rules!

The codex is really hurting for proper anti-armour weaponry (and no, the land raider doesn't count). Of course FW brings some options, but I'm of the opinion that a faction shouldn't have to rely on FW units in order to be viable. They should be interesting units with awesome models that add flavour and options, not the crutch that holds up the entire book.

I just hope the rid of the constant random shots and damage.

Easily one of the worst things about 8th ed.

I would love to see Custodians get some buffs to flags? The Flag is really the backbone of any Custodes infantry force what if for 1 CP you can change the Vexhilla to any of the 3? And buff the 3?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I would love to see Custodians get some buffs to flags? The Flag is really the backbone of any Custodes infantry force what if for 1 CP you can change the Vexhilla to any of the 3? And buff the 3?

I'd say, having a base effect, and then maybe stratagems to buff that effect would be neat. But more synergy with the banners would be nice
1 CP to give 5+ FNP for a phase to models within 6 inches, or something like that.
1 CP to allow all units within 6 to reroll charges
1 CP to give units within 6 inches 2 additional attacks per model

or something like that.

I also would love to see bikes advance and charge. It just makes too much sense.

I also love the idea of playing more with tanglefoot weapons. call me a loser but I love our terminators. I would love to see some form of tanglefoot strat on more than just terminators. If we can't get the charge off, we should at least be able to lock people down.

Fluff-wise and aesthetics wise, infantry is easily the best thing about the Custodes, but in my opinion they're just not worth it compared to armor+chaff, even if they get buffed. I hope Venerable Land Raiders get a point reduction and bikes get an advance+charge. If terminators get a point reduction terminator blobs might become viable, but they'd need a serious point reduction.

Saw another interesting suggestion:

"Always ready for Duty": Prior to game start spend 2 CP per unit case on. This Custodes Unit will always fight first in the Fight Phase if the unit had a successful charge.

It would boost our ability to do damage in melee before getting creamed by mobs, and it would be fairly unbroken. I mean the most broken thing you could do is a trio of 3 Terminator squads, but that's 6CP and god nows how many points for basically the hope that they get off a charge. The bikes already have it kinda with Swooping dive, but What do you guys think?