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That would be very nice, especially when you're putting your terminators up against superheavies

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Saw another interesting suggestion:

"Always ready for Duty": Prior to game start spend 2 CP per unit case on. This Custodes Unit will always fight first in the Fight Phase if the unit had a successful charge.

It would boost our ability to do damage in melee before getting creamed by mobs, and it would be fairly unbroken. I mean the most broken thing you could do is a trio of 3 Terminator squads, but that's 6CP and god nows how many points for basically the hope that they get off a charge. The bikes already have it kinda with Swooping dive, but What do you guys think?

I think for 1 CP that might see use.

I’ve been really mulling this over and I’ve come to a conclusion. Custodes needs 3 things...

1) Aegis = 5++ inv and 5++ against all mortal wounds or wounds caused by psychic powers.
2) The Emperors Chosen = +1 inv and a battleforged talons army get +3 CP
3) some cool strats to mitigate incoming damage and make us hit better along with random shots/damage going and some weapons rewritten.

Sisters as troops would be cool too.

5+++ against all mortals and psychic powers would be so welcome and more CPs is so what we need. We have some of the best strats in the game right now, it’s CPs we sorely lack.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Saw another interesting suggestion:

"Always ready for Duty": Prior to game start spend 2 CP per unit case on. This Custodes Unit will always fight first in the Fight Phase if the unit had a successful charge.

It would boost our ability to do damage in melee before getting creamed by mobs, and it would be fairly unbroken. I mean the most broken thing you could do is a trio of 3 Terminator squads, but that's 6CP and god nows how many points for basically the hope that they get off a charge. The bikes already have it kinda with Swooping dive, but What do you guys think?

Sounds a bit steep and fairly corner case seeing as you're commuting the 2CP in advance whereas interrupt CPs are allocated ad-hoc. You're also telehraphing which units have the ability, so unless it's Terminators the enemy can focus down those units first at range...

So I know this is old, but for the Impulsor Charge, I thought this was still the rule:

BRB update 1.6
Q. The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up
on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance
further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot,
charge, etc.).
Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in
and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge
and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it
can pile in and consolidate.

The impulsor itself is what disallows charging.

Not a general rule.

I hate to sound like Bacon Cat bug here, but what is the argument against saying that the devs clearly wanted units from off map (Reinforcments or disembarking) to be allowed to shoot, move( pile in/consolidate), and charge? Was this addressed in a recent FAQ? Honestly asking here, because I'm seeing people move, disembark, Shoot, charge.

You can do that. But not from an Impulsor that moved.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The impulsor itself is what disallows charging.

Not a general rule.

To clarify, disembarking is not coming in from reserves, therefore normally you can hop out of a party bus and go to town. The Impulsor disallows said festivities specifically because it allows for disembarkation after movement.

So does coming out of a drop pod count as reserves or disembarking? Not that it matters to custodes, but I clearly seem to have reinforcements confused. I always thought any unit that comes from off the map onto the map counts as a reinforcement. Which is why the argument came about for taking a -1 to heavy weapons for Devs getting out of drop pods, because they count as having moved right? Thank you to anyone who clears this up, but this has to be one of the most confusing aspects of 40k for me. And I run a charity org that teaches kids with learning disabilities how to play DND.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So does coming out of a drop pod count as reserves or disembarking? Not that it matters to custodes, but I clearly seem to have reinforcements confused. I always thought any unit that comes from off the map onto the map counts as a reinforcement. Which is why the argument came about for taking a -1 to heavy weapons for Devs getting out of drop pods, because they count as having moved right? Thank you to anyone who clears this up, but this has to be one of the most confusing aspects of 40k for me. And I run a charity org that teaches kids with learning disabilities how to play DND.

Pods are a transport. Getting out of them is disembarking. Their datasheet explicitly forces a disembark when the pod arrives in fact. The pod arriving is coming in from reserves. Its why things like Auspex Scan or Forewarned can attack the pod, but not the lads getting out of it.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Saw another interesting suggestion:

"Always ready for Duty": Prior to game start spend 2 CP per unit case on. This Custodes Unit will always fight first in the Fight Phase if the unit had a successful charge.

It would boost our ability to do damage in melee before getting creamed by mobs, and it would be fairly unbroken. I mean the most broken thing you could do is a trio of 3 Terminator squads, but that's 6CP and god nows how many points for basically the hope that they get off a charge. The bikes already have it kinda with Swooping dive, but What do you guys think?

Mobs aren't really a problem for melee Custodes

So, what do you guys think about the trailer for war of the spider.

I am really trying to stay positive, but with that last shot of the trailer I am quite worried that custodes will get the short end of the stick in the lore department, especially considering how moronic some of the psychic awakening lore has been written so far.
I really fear that they will pull some chaos custodes out of their asses or something along those lines.

Badly written lore doesn't bother some people as much as it does bother myself, but my greatest worry is that we'll also just be a sidenote in the rules department.
Slap together custodes and sisters of silence so they have the talons keyword and can be selected in the same detachment without penalty and call it a day....maybe give the sisters 2-3 new strats and a relic...

I'd really like to be proven wrong here, cause our golden boys definitely could use some love.

I'm more worried about badly written rules

The cynic inside me thinks the only thing we’ll get is a few minor tweaks and the addition of Sisters, and the book will only really be packed full of Fabius Bile goodies to quickly sell a new sub-faction to people.

We’re 100% getting shafted in the fluff too, you can tell by the video. The fact the the Custoded are said to be the ones outnumbering is a joke.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Saw another interesting suggestion:

"Always ready for Duty": Prior to game start spend 2 CP per unit case on. This Custodes Unit will always fight first in the Fight Phase if the unit had a successful charge.

It would boost our ability to do damage in melee before getting creamed by mobs, and it would be fairly unbroken. I mean the most broken thing you could do is a trio of 3 Terminator squads, but that's 6CP and god nows how many points for basically the hope that they get off a charge. The bikes already have it kinda with Swooping dive, but What do you guys think?

Mobs aren't really a problem for melee Custodes

120 ork boyz beg to disagree. Never won against that list

SirGunslinger wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Saw another interesting suggestion:

"Always ready for Duty": Prior to game start spend 2 CP per unit case on. This Custodes Unit will always fight first in the Fight Phase if the unit had a successful charge.

It would boost our ability to do damage in melee before getting creamed by mobs, and it would be fairly unbroken. I mean the most broken thing you could do is a trio of 3 Terminator squads, but that's 6CP and god nows how many points for basically the hope that they get off a charge. The bikes already have it kinda with Swooping dive, but What do you guys think?

Mobs aren't really a problem for melee Custodes

120 ork boyz beg to disagree. Never won against that list

120 boys is not that much If you postion well and use tangle foot grenade. my list can shoot 60 normal boys i 1 turn.

SirGunslinger wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Saw another interesting suggestion:

"Always ready for Duty": Prior to game start spend 2 CP per unit case on. This Custodes Unit will always fight first in the Fight Phase if the unit had a successful charge.

It would boost our ability to do damage in melee before getting creamed by mobs, and it would be fairly unbroken. I mean the most broken thing you could do is a trio of 3 Terminator squads, but that's 6CP and god nows how many points for basically the hope that they get off a charge. The bikes already have it kinda with Swooping dive, but What do you guys think?

Mobs aren't really a problem for melee Custodes

120 ork boyz beg to disagree. Never won against that list

My friend plays 150 boyz. We can’t shoot them off the board, we can’t screen them out. So... The only thing I can think of is to have a double battalion of as many Custodian Guard as possible mixed as shields and spears and tanglefoot twice every-turn. Hope for anything except Dawn of War deployment and use Champion of the Imperium Warlord trait to heroically intervene as much as possible to mess up their movement and Counter Offensive & Indomitable Guardians to hit out of sequence whenever possible. It’s still probably impossible for us to win but I was going to try before the coronavirus lockdown.

Have you guys ever heard of hurricane bolters? They come stock on bikes, and 3 of them with Trajan re-rolls kill 20 boyz a turn.

Yeah between Hurricane bolters, Dakka telemons and Wardens with +1 attack banner I have never had issues with hordes of any kind. Guardsmen, poxwalkers, boyz, GSC all melt pretty fast. The issue for me that actually requries thought is how to deal with the big guns or mortal wound spam that sits behind it all.

show me a tournament list that has bikes, dakkanauts, wardens and the attack flag.

Custodes come in two play styles, melee infantry that lean on terminators and trajaan,

Or shooty lists that lean on Trajaan and tanks. Hardly anyone uses the dakka nauts now, given their return on cost ratio.

Mob lists overwhelm Custodesm plain and simple. My friend runs lists of bloodletters bombs and DPs. You can either loose on points or lose on getting bombed off the map turn 2 by 30-50 screaming daemons with 61A WS2+ S6 AP-3 1D(2D). Oh and they get death to the False Emperor, and they can fight twice. Show me a Custodes unit that survives 122 attacks with DTFE.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
show me a tournament list that has bikes, dakkanauts, wardens and the attack flag.

Custodes come in two play styles, melee infantry that lean on terminators and trajaan,

Or shooty lists that lean on Trajaan and tanks. Hardly anyone uses the dakka nauts now, given their return on cost ratio.

Mob lists overwhelm Custodesm plain and simple. My friend runs lists of bloodletters bombs and DPs. You can either loose on points or lose on getting bombed off the map turn 2 by 30-50 screaming daemons with 61A WS2+ S6 AP-3 1D(2D). Oh and they get death to the False Emperor, and they can fight twice. Show me a Custodes unit that survives 122 attacks with DTFE.

That's moving the goalposts, we were talking about Ork boyz who have little to no AP on their CC attacks.
But on the subject of bloodletter bombs...of course you cant survive that amount of attacks, so you screen, you tanglefoot, and shoot them to death. The "tank list" you talk about has a huge number of shots, plus -2 to charge in spades and is probably also running (you guessed it) bikes. Let a pallas or even a 3-man guard squad eat the charge when they come in from deepstrike, then shoot the bloodletters to death. Even if you're running pure infantry, a full Sag Guard squad with Ever Vigilant will make a dent when they come out of deepstrike.
No one's saying you won't take casualties, but against a an army like that winning is still possible. It just might be a close game.

And finally, show me a tournament Custodeslist that wins...period. Custodes got largely exterminated by Space Marines like everyone else, and we haven't had a lot of big events since the FAQ. Plus, with the rise of the other formerly downtrodden faction we all play (Grey Knights), a lot of people aren't even trying to make those lists.

Bikes aren’t stopping 120-150 Orks. They just tellyport & da jump 2 units of 30 and then you’re in trouble. If they were we would see them as a viable build in the meta more, they’ve not been popular for a while now. Nearly 100 points each is just too much but GW won’t budge on their cost.

And arguments about meta aside that’s just the point @spartacus. Most of these horde builds can throw out insane levels of moral wounds. Mortal wounds are just too powerful against us. Those Ork burnerbombers or smites really are our Achilles heel.

If we want any hope moving forward we need something to mitigate mortal wounds and psychics.

We can kind of mitigate psychics, and you can always throw in an inquisitor or something. I hope Assassins get some nice buffs in war of the spider, because a few eversors thins out an work horde quite nicely. The only problem is that they're not usually worth their 95 if you have to try to deepstrike them, so I can't generally justify taking 2 or 3, much less 1

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Mob lists overwhelm Custodesm plain and simple. My friend runs lists of bloodletters bombs and DPs. You can either loose on points or lose on getting bombed off the map turn 2 by 30-50 screaming daemons with 61A WS2+ S6 AP-3 1D(2D). Oh and they get death to the False Emperor, and they can fight twice. Show me a Custodes unit that survives 122 attacks with DTFE.

Daemons don't actually have Death to the False Emperor.

Malefic666 wrote:
Bikes aren’t stopping 120-150 Orks. They just tellyport & da jump 2 units of 30 and then you’re in trouble.

I don't have the math here for ork boyz specifically, but 120 WS3+ S4 AP0 attacks do just 4.44 wounds to T5/6 2+. Power Clawz on the Nob will hurt more, but in general even enormous amounts of AP0 doesn't hurt 2+ saves.
Here's how that event you described likely goes down: Tanglefoot 1 of the mobs, swooping dive the other. Now there are fewer boyz attacking in the 1 squad that made the charge, and the other squad of 30 is hanging out for you to shoot/assault next turn. And as I mentioned before, 3 bikes kills 20 a turn in rapid-fire range, which equates to 120 dead boyz from their shooting alone by turn 6. Not saying that Orks aren't a threat, but the boyz are an easy problem to solve. It's mek gunz, burna bombers, and SAQ Meks that are going to cause you problems.

Malefic666 wrote:
If they were we would see them as a viable build in the meta more, they’ve not been popular for a while now. Nearly 100 points each is just too much but GW won’t budge on their cost.

Let me be absolutely clear: They haven't been a viable build ONLY BECAUSE OF SPACE MARINES. The Caladius nerf happened roughly the same time SM 2.0 dropped, and Iron Hands stalker bolt rifles are an almost perfect tool to kill bikes with. The reason people switched to pure infantry isn't because bikes are bad, it's because the only way to survive Space Marine firepower was to hide out of LOS. And thanks to ITC terrain rules, Custodes infantry can try to play the objective game and bully/trade with infantry that try and climb into their ruin with them. That's it, plain and simple. Now that you don't have to fight through 6 turns of devastator doctrine, you're already seeing other armies (mainly Astra Militarium and Eldar) taking "un-hideable" things like vehicles again and doing well. You have options other than "hide", and I'm sure that you're going to see a swing back towards "killing" rather than just trying to survive for 6 turns across the board. For Custodes, a lot will depend on what they get in psychic awakening.

Well yeah, I stopped using bikes when I just couldn’t beat Eldar flying spam & I’ve only ever managed a win against IH once, even now they’re not devastator doctrine all game they’re still so good. But yeah I’d absolutely love to get bikes on the table again and even more so if they were viable to bring to a tournament or just against all comers. Bikes can’t tanglefoot so I still think they need to be played carefully/defensively with good Vexilla/Trajann placement.

would "doctrines" help Custodes?

Extra melee attacks/damage in tactical,

extra shots/damage in devestator

Etc?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
would "doctrines" help Custodes?

Extra melee attacks/damage in tactical,

extra shots/damage in devestator

Etc?

Why yes, buffs for no points increase WOULD help the Custodes.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
would "doctrines" help Custodes?

Extra melee attacks/damage in tactical,

extra shots/damage in devestator

Etc?

Well yeah, anything we get given is going to help us. Personally I find extra damage to be the worst boost to us because it’s usually the least of my worries, I’d do dirty things to get access stratagems that all the marines get like more relics,extra traits and those defensive stratagems, transhuman,duty eternal, the tank mortal wound save,

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
show me a tournament list that has bikes, dakkanauts, wardens and the attack flag.

Custodes come in two play styles, melee infantry that lean on terminators and trajaan,

Or shooty lists that lean on Trajaan and tanks. Hardly anyone uses the dakka nauts now, given their return on cost ratio.

Mob lists overwhelm Custodesm plain and simple. My friend runs lists of bloodletters bombs and DPs. You can either loose on points or lose on getting bombed off the map turn 2 by 30-50 screaming daemons with 61A WS2+ S6 AP-3 1D(2D). Oh and they get death to the False Emperor, and they can fight twice. Show me a Custodes unit that survives 122 attacks with DTFE.

I hate to break it to you mate, but there isn’t a tourney custodes list right now. But lucky for you, Orks also don’t have a tourney winning list


Also, like, dude, tournaments are all about learning the meta. If 150 ork boys became meta, things would shift to kill hordes. But they aren’t, so things are focused on trying to chunk through marines


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Malefic666 wrote:
Bikes aren’t stopping 120-150 Orks. They just tellyport & da jump 2 units of 30 and then you’re in trouble. If they were we would see them as a viable build in the meta more, they’ve not been popular for a while now. Nearly 100 points each is just too much but GW won’t budge on their cost.

And arguments about meta aside that’s just the point @spartacus. Most of these horde builds can throw out insane levels of moral wounds. Mortal wounds are just too powerful against us. Those Ork burnerbombers or smites really are our Achilles heel.

If we want any hope moving forward we need something to mitigate mortal wounds and psychics.

Jetbikes absolutely trounce ork boys and are mostly vulnerable to ork shooting. If you are using bikes, they should be a teleport bomb themselves