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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




If a custodes terminator were to get enhanced saves I’d rather it be aquillon, given that those have much bulkier armour.

Really though, just give me an aquillon Shield Captain
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'd rather they make the launcher a S5 AP1 D2 weapon. We are already hilariously hard to kill.

We were, now with the buffs Eldar and SM got it's quite a bit easier. Plus GK and TSons spamming mortal wounds. I'd like a little more durability, but also agree our guns/melee weapons need to be better. Anything Space Marines have (Stalker bolt rifles, etc) we should have a better version of. I'm willing to pay the points for it, but our thing is that we are literally the best and I want that on the tabletop.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We are already hilariously hard to kill.


We’re not though.

T5 2+/4++ dudes is not what it was when 8th came out. There’s an insane amount of -1/-2AP & D2 out there. -2 puts us on our invulnerable save meaning those points we pay for 2+ are wasted. Not to mention mortal wounds simply murder us.

We have to hide and wrap. If we can’t hide or wrap we die.
   
Made in ca
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




We are hilariously hard to kill until the heavy weapons start shooting. I don't know about you guys, but I always play against heavy weapons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And when our infantry or bikes go up against someone worthy of their combat prowess like heavy dreadnoughts or even Invictors they tend to get smooshed if they don't wipe it out first fight phase

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/23 14:23:59


In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
 
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




With proper use of SoS, GK are nor really a problem with MW spam. With proper use of flags, shooting shouldn't be either.
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
With proper use of SoS, GK are nor really a problem with MW spam. With proper use of flags, shooting shouldn't be either.

A GK Paladin squad without any re-rolls using only storm bolters with Psybolt Ammo in their “Shooting Tide” kills 11.1 sisters of silence, with Astral Aim they do it from out of LOS and with Edict Imperator they do it in the psychic phase. They can additionally benefit from a +1 to hit or re-roll hits buff. And that’s 24” range.
The Vexilla Magnifica is helpful, but against space marines and other armies that now have full re-rolls to hit it’s less effective and with the steady dropping of points in codecies and Chapter Approved there are more guns on the tables.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/23 16:19:03


Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Im actually betting they are going to give sisters some Custodes love. I'm betting at least a 5++ that would turn into a 4++ for being part of a Custards force. Also they get a 6+++ for Any wounds in the psycic phase.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 greyknight12 wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
With proper use of SoS, GK are nor really a problem with MW spam. With proper use of flags, shooting shouldn't be either.

A GK Paladin squad without any re-rolls using only storm bolters with Psybolt Ammo in their “Shooting Tide” kills 11.1 sisters of silence, with Astral Aim they do it from out of LOS and with Edict Imperator they do it in the psychic phase. They can additionally benefit from a +1 to hit or re-roll hits buff. And that’s 24” range.
The Vexilla Magnifica is helpful, but against space marines and other armies that now have full re-rolls to hit it’s less effective and with the steady dropping of points in codecies and Chapter Approved there are more guns on the tables.


That's an expensive squad killing like a quarter of their points though, and I feel that your army should be in its face pretty fast.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Im actually betting they are going to give sisters some Custodes love. I'm betting at least a 5++ that would turn into a 4++ for being part of a Custards force. Also they get a 6+++ for Any wounds in the psycic phase.


On what planet do you think SoS are going to get the equivalent of Celestine's Moving Castle just for showing up?
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




The planet where GW has been fairly positive with the fluff surrounding SoS. They are still 1W models at the end of the day, so giving them a 5++ for showing up doesn't seem entirely broken. We aren't giving them a flying assault transport that has a 4++ here. But if they stay elites, and don't go troop choice, it makes sense they will be getting some sos form of a cannoness. You can bet the SoS HQ will have an invuln. Given the Custodes rule that any infantry gets +1 to that, it's not inconcievable that we might see SoS HW with 4++ running around.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The planet where GW has been fairly positive with the fluff surrounding SoS. They are still 1W models at the end of the day, so giving them a 5++ for showing up doesn't seem entirely broken. We aren't giving them a flying assault transport that has a 4++ here. But if they stay elites, and don't go troop choice, it makes sense they will be getting some sos form of a cannoness. You can bet the SoS HQ will have an invuln. Given the Custodes rule that any infantry gets +1 to that, it's not inconcievable that we might see SoS HW with 4++ running around.


It is entirely inconceivable. Nobody is getting a 3+/4++ model that is immune to psyker powers for 10 points per body. Furthermore, holding up fluff fiction as examples of what things do on the table is the height of lunacy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/24 15:49:47


 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




stratigo wrote:
 greyknight12 wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
With proper use of SoS, GK are nor really a problem with MW spam. With proper use of flags, shooting shouldn't be either.

A GK Paladin squad without any re-rolls using only storm bolters with Psybolt Ammo in their “Shooting Tide” kills 11.1 sisters of silence, with Astral Aim they do it from out of LOS and with Edict Imperator they do it in the psychic phase. They can additionally benefit from a +1 to hit or re-roll hits buff. And that’s 24” range.
The Vexilla Magnifica is helpful, but against space marines and other armies that now have full re-rolls to hit it’s less effective and with the steady dropping of points in codecies and Chapter Approved there are more guns on the tables.


That's an expensive squad killing like a quarter of their points though, and I feel that your army should be in its face pretty fast.

Sure, but after your sisters are dead your real units are going to be eating D2 smites the rest of the game. And it's not like GK are slouches in close combat. My example was looking at the most common GK build right now (double paladin bomb); and it plays by shooting your screens from range. Then it either jumps in your face or kites you, all the while throwing out smites and buffed storm bolter fire.
I'm back to maining Grey Knights partially because I don't think I can build a custodes list that can beat my grey knights list after their PA update. Custodes will need some specific buffs to deal with them, or a change in list design. That said, Custodes are in a much better place in general after the SM nerf.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




You act like GK are made of CP, they aren't. Unless youre playing soup, you don't have nearly enough CP for all the shenanigans GK have that make them scary. At most you might get one deadly round of shooting, taking out maybe a squad of sisters. Then my Terminators and dreadnaughts are in your backfield, crushing your hopes and dreams. GK are still the weakest faction in the entire SM line up. 1W models with a crappy gimmick that doesn't appear anywhere in top lists. Because the people that play the game know GK are a gimmick, not a major threat to be list built around.
   
Made in jp
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You act like GK are made of CP, they aren't. Unless youre playing soup, you don't have nearly enough CP for all the shenanigans GK have that make them scary. At most you might get one deadly round of shooting, taking out maybe a squad of sisters. Then my Terminators and dreadnaughts are in your backfield, crushing your hopes and dreams. GK are still the weakest faction in the entire SM line up. 1W models with a crappy gimmick that doesn't appear anywhere in top lists. Because the people that play the game know GK are a gimmick, not a major threat to be list built around.


That GK build is a double battalion, giving you a healthy 13 CP. Plus GK can now generate CP with a simple psychic power. Once again you embarrass yourself by not knowing even the most basic facts about what you're talking about.
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




Spartacus wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You act like GK are made of CP, they aren't. Unless youre playing soup, you don't have nearly enough CP for all the shenanigans GK have that make them scary. At most you might get one deadly round of shooting, taking out maybe a squad of sisters. Then my Terminators and dreadnaughts are in your backfield, crushing your hopes and dreams. GK are still the weakest faction in the entire SM line up. 1W models with a crappy gimmick that doesn't appear anywhere in top lists. Because the people that play the game know GK are a gimmick, not a major threat to be list built around.


That GK build is a double battalion, giving you a healthy 13 CP. Plus GK can now generate CP with a simple psychic power. Once again you embarrass yourself by not knowing even the most basic facts about what you're talking about.

Most of the GK shenanigans now are also based around psychic powers rather than stratagems now as well. My example of paladins shooting costs 2 CP to kill the sisters. Everything else is a psychic power or Tide

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Grey Knights are stronger than Salamanders, Ultramarines, Black Templars, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and possibly also Deathwatch. They're hardly a marginal force.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




considering BT are pretty much dog crap right now, there are really only 2-3 viable SM forces. Iron Hands, GK, and maybe Deathwatch, but I have yet to see anyone take them as a main force in any tournament and win.

Does anyone really expect Custodians to suddenly become viable off just PA updates? It is going to take a full re-build of the codex, and that isn't likely until they start getting into whatever 9th is. GW created them as a fluff faction, without putting any effort into them. I bet you dollars to doughnuts that someone said "Lets make an all primarch army. and that was the start of Custodes as a playable faction. They're stat line pretty much preserves them as the most costly race, unless they suddenly make primaris GK. I don't even want to think about that. Primaris Dreadknights anyone?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
considering BT are pretty much dog crap right now, there are really only 2-3 viable SM forces. Iron Hands, GK, and maybe Deathwatch, but I have yet to see anyone take them as a main force in any tournament and win.

Does anyone really expect Custodians to suddenly become viable off just PA updates? It is going to take a full re-build of the codex, and that isn't likely until they start getting into whatever 9th is. GW created them as a fluff faction, without putting any effort into them. I bet you dollars to doughnuts that someone said "Lets make an all primarch army. and that was the start of Custodes as a playable faction. They're stat line pretty much preserves them as the most costly race, unless they suddenly make primaris GK. I don't even want to think about that. Primaris Dreadknights anyone?


I mean, grey knights went from literally the worst book in the game to very playable in PA. So there's always hope.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I keep wanting to point to meta data. If GK were actually competitive, we'd see more of them, and while there are literally no tournaments going on right now, pre-covid there was a single list that managed to go 6-0 at Gentleman's cup (I think that was the title) that was heavy paladin with the usual GMNDK with Draigo, and literally everyone was super surprised. And not because it went 6-0, but because most people in the MEta chasing world still think GK are crap. They still aren't top 5 Meta. Which still I think happens to be varying flavors of Primaris bs. But, ever the Mets Fan, I will hope and pray, and wait for the heart break that is the reveal of Custodes PA.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




According to 40kstats.com GK have a higher win % post doctrine FAQ than any SM faction. They're ranked #2 among all factions for win % (if we eliminate the Crimson Fists entry for having a sample size of only 4 games)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/29 15:22:44


 
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




ok, and just below them it says GSC are almost as good. Is anyone here really seeing GSC lists in the top Meta?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




They have a higher win rate than almost any other faction post doctrine nerf. Lists that are pure or hybrid GSC have more top 4 finishes in that time period (in tournaments that adopted the errata and didn't exclude it due to timing) than Tau, Aeldari, Orks, or Iron Hands. So yes, they're a top tier army in the current post doctrines nerf meta. The 40kstats numbers and placings are accurate.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/30 04:51:11


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I’m sure this has been discussed before but I’m going to ask again. I love the few custodes models I have but I’m not a fan of FW. I’m wanting to run custodes without FW. At the very least I’d like to soup them with my admech and scions. Would this be possible for a competitive list? I really love the allarus termis I just feel like they may be too expensive
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

Drdotts wrote:
I’m sure this has been discussed before but I’m going to ask again. I love the few custodes models I have but I’m not a fan of FW. I’m wanting to run custodes without FW. At the very least I’d like to soup them with my admech and scions. Would this be possible for a competitive list? I really love the allarus termis I just feel like they may be too expensive


For a competitive list? You may be hard pressed. But I have heard people using the Allarus bombs to be effective, and then there is the Ezra Bridger type list with 2 batallions and like 30 custodian guard hunkering down and scoring objectives.
Jetbikes are also still good units, but everyone know what they can do, and are fire magnets, public enemy #1.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:I could see both of those potentially earning their points back. The lascannons could take out something big, and the Multi-Melta could as well. Also it's our most Dakka unit non-FW. So the Assault cannon can potentially clear up mobs. Allarus in the numbers required to be even potentially useful require almost 500 points. Or around 5-6 models. Hell, the base unit is 252 points, which is almost never makes back. I've had success with a unit of 10, but that was 840 points. and even then, they were just immovable objective blockers.

I think your points are out of date. They've gone down significantly since the codex was released. They're 71pts a pop now. Still too expensive, but they're easier to fit in to a list with the min squad being 40pts cheaper.


SirGunslinger wrote:If Allarus get a 3++ without having to sacrifice the spear or axe in my opinion that would really improve their worth. Or if they got thunder hammers, although that would mean a whole new model, so that's not happening.

Aquilons are the closest we'll get to that. Still d3 damage, but a proper strength and AP make up for a lot. It's just annoying that they lose the awesome stratagem support that Allarus get. And of course they're still too expensive.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Would anyone take another look at the Contemptor if they made the fist 4 damage a pop or a flat 6? I feel six might be broken, but it would at least get some purpose other than back field dakka. It could even get a telport homer and then go Fisto Roboto on something big an ugly.
   
Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






Drdotts wrote:
I’m sure this has been discussed before but I’m going to ask again. I love the few custodes models I have but I’m not a fan of FW. I’m wanting to run custodes without FW. At the very least I’d like to soup them with my admech and scions. Would this be possible for a competitive list? I really love the allarus termis I just feel like they may be too expensive
ATM there is no competitive custodes without FW IMO. Putting 30+ custodian guard on the table and hope you can hide them and not get shot off the board is not competing IMO. Sadly Custodes are in a bad spot and one of the worst army's in 40k right now. I suspect PA: War of the Spyder to come out at the end of this month and i hope it will fix a few of the issues.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/05 18:30:53


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Drdotts wrote:
I’m sure this has been discussed before but I’m going to ask again. I love the few custodes models I have but I’m not a fan of FW. I’m wanting to run custodes without FW. At the very least I’d like to soup them with my admech and scions. Would this be possible for a competitive list? I really love the allarus termis I just feel like they may be too expensive


Go check out Darren on Canhammer TV (twitch or YouTube - there’s about 15 tactica vids just on Custodes, last one on tanglefoot was very good). He sometimes runs an Allarus list that whilst not competitive in the true ITC sense of the word, played right can hold its own. It’s about wraps, tri-pointing, abusing the Allarus special rules (always take the 12” HI warlord trait) and being clever with pile ins and your use of tanglefoot strat (easily one of the top 5 best strats in the game) etc. You won’t beat optimised Tau, SMs, or Eldar but it’s not a terrible way to play. I own 12 Allarus and find them to be great tbh. Before lockdown I played 2x6 Allarus with 3x3 shield guardians and double Vexilla w/Trajann. Beat GSC and Ultramarines so all is not lost. Would I take them to an ITC tournament? Probably not unless I was going for a laugh or a shot at painted prizes.

Seriously, every Custodes player should watch the Canhammer vids.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




So does anyone think that PA will completely revamp the Codex units, or just add the Talons and rules for Valaria et al? Because right now, baring a revamp of the Codex, half our units are either worthless or just plain outdone by non codex (FW) units. I don't see them adding SoS as a troop, because that hasn't happened for anyone else, rebranding elites as troops. I do wish they would give us something, but they can't muck with the rules any more, given our bumpy history with rules. 2 weeks later FAQ and all that.
   
Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So does anyone think that PA will completely revamp the Codex units, or just add the Talons and rules for Valaria et al? Because right now, baring a revamp of the Codex, half our units are either worthless or just plain outdone by non codex (FW) units. I don't see them adding SoS as a troop, because that hasn't happened for anyone else, rebranding elites as troops. I do wish they would give us something, but they can't muck with the rules any more, given our bumpy history with rules. 2 weeks later FAQ and all that.

I am pretty sure there won't be a complete revamp of the Codex units. But its hard to tell whats gonna happen. SoS as troops would be nice and realistic if custodes and SoS are in a combied army why would the SOS be elite but the custodes troops?
   
 
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