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So if i understand correctly, that +1 to regular saves would mean we basically ignore -1ap, because we'd still be at 2+ anyways?

xerxeskingofking wrote:
So if i understand correctly, that +1 to regular saves would mean we basically ignore -1ap, because we'd still be at 2+ anyways?

Yes. To put another way, reduce all AP against you by 1, which means that in cover, you'd still get a 2+ against AP-2.

That is, once the Custodes Dex is updated. For now, it's just a 3++.

Sterling191 wrote:

Audustum wrote:


I'd say make them an alt weapon that can do 1D3 additional attack. That way, Spears/axes/Sag could go horde mode with it

If you restrict the Mizzy attacks, its a net nerf for Sags. The Mizzy *is* their primary melee weapon, and reducing them to punches would be problematic.

I didn't mean to be saying that. 'additional attacks' is just how GW phrases that stuff (like the current Miseri). So they could still do all their attacks with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 slave.entity wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
Emperor's Chosen would bring them back to 3++ so it'd be a strict buff, bringing them to 1+/3++. But apparently GW mentioned that the new storm shields won't be immediately ported to everything outside SM so it could still change.

It doesn't improve the save characteristic. It just gives +1 to the roll. Effectively, it let's us ignore AP-1 permanently (because AP is just a minus to the roll). GW specifically listed our shields as being affected so decent odds we get it in October I'd say.

It's a straight buff all around. We went into details 2-3 pages back.

The codex entry says it improves the save characteristic. Was it FAQ'd?

EDIT: Oh I see you're referring to the new storm shields, not the Custodes trait. Yes, I'm aware of what the new storm shields do. It's not technically a 1+ sv but it's close enough to call it that. 1s always fail so there is no danger of ambiguity.

The big difference is a 1+ save is effectively a 2++ and would ignore even infinite AP because AP modifies the roll, not the characteristic. 2+ with a +1 to the roll functions a little different (ignore AP-1). But yes, it won't matter most of the time.

Sag's only really get 1 attack per model right? how does giving them the potential for 3 extra attacks nerf them?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Sag's only really get 1 attack per model right? how does giving them the potential for 3 extra attacks nerf them?

No, they get their 3 stat line attacks, plus the extra misa attack, ALL WITH the misa profile as you can just choose to use it for your regular attacks. If they had another melee weapon (like spear or sword armed Guards), they could use that for their normal three with that weapon, then one with the misa profile.

In theory they could choose to make their normal 3 with default "close combat weapon" profile, but since they have the misa, why would they when they can make 4 with the misa profile?

xerxeskingofking wrote:


In theory they could choose to make their normal 3 with default "close combat weapon" profile, but since they have the misa, why would they when they can make 4 with the misa profile?

GW changed this in 9th edition, models no longer get access to the basic ccw if they already have another melee weapon. So they have no choice but to make their attacks with a misericordia if you equip them with one.

However the wording of a misericordia is that you 'may' make an additional attack with it, so you can still choose to only make 3 attacks with each model (if you don't want to wipe out what you're fighting for example).

Has anyone brought Land Raiders to the party for Custodes recently? I've been having fun with one as my back objective holder that take out tanks while the Terminators/Wardens/Praetors rush upfield. I'm going to build and try out a dual Land Raider list and see if they survive.

Also, for the points, the basic Shield Captain with an Axe is fantastic. 105 points and a CP to get an 8W 3++ killer has been great.

The LR would be fine, if they would remove its transport capacity and drop its points cost by 30-40pts.

Its designed to carry space marines, so not letting custodes ride in it is fine.

It has the same offensive capacity as a relic contemptor dreadnought, lacks the invun, but costs twice as much.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The LR would be fine, if they would remove its transport capacity and drop its points cost by 30-40pts.

Its designed to carry space marines, so not letting custodes ride in it is fine.

It has the same offensive capacity as a relic contemptor dreadnought, lacks the invun, but costs twice as much.

I believe the Custodes LRs have a transport capacity of 5 Custodes.

yes, but we dont need it.

Ditch it for more firepower (like the terminus Ultra) or drop the points cost.


There is litterally no reason to put people inside the land raider as a custodes player so why am i being forced to pay points for it?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
yes, but we dont need it.

Ditch it for more firepower (like the terminus Ultra) or drop the points cost.


There is litterally no reason to put people inside the land raider as a custodes player so why am i being forced to pay points for it?

Righto, I understand you now. However, there's a few good reasons to start in the transport. One is protection from first turn shooting. Two is the 3" of bonus movement getting out, to propel upfield in your first turn. Combine that with the Solar Watch warlord trait and you've got a 10" move upfield right from the start.

Solar watch wouldnt work, as they would be in the transport and not be affected by it. You have to be inside the aura at the start of the movement phase to get the bonus.

Also, a LR isnt that hard to kill, and loosing both it and potentially one or more 50+ pt models to a bad roll is not exactly an attractive proposition.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Solar watch wouldnt work, as they would be in the transport and not be affected by it. You have to be inside the aura at the start of the movement phase to get the bonus.

Also, a LR isnt that hard to kill, and loosing both it and potentially one or more 50+ pt models to a bad roll is not exactly an attractive proposition.

Good call on the Solar Watch movement bonus, forgot how it was worded. Still a 9" move for the Infantry, which is nice. I agree it's worrisome to lose the LR and then roll some 1s. I'll give it a go and report back in!

This is a list I have been having a lot of success with
What do you think

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [101 PL, -1CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Shield Host: Shadowkeepers

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 190pts]

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Captain-Commander, Hurricane Bolter, Superior Creation, Unstoppable Destroyer, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 147pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

+ Elites +

Aquilon Custodians [20 PL, 400pts]
. Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Solarite power Gauntlet
. Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Solarite power Gauntlet
. Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Solarite power Gauntlet
. Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Solarite power Gauntlet
. Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Solarite power Gauntlet

Vexillus Praetor [6 PL, 118pts]: Misericordia, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Venatari Custodians [14 PL, 300pts]
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler: Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler: Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler: Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler: Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler: Tarsus Buckler

Vertus Praetors [20 PL, 380pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 290pts]: Arachnus Storm Cannon, Arachnus Storm Cannon, Spiculus Bolt Launcher

++ Total: [101 PL, -1CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

List looks great. Speedy, flexible and hard hitting.

Couple small things I'd consider:
swapping all of the hurricanes out for salvoes. I've found their lack of AP to make them criminally underwhelming, and you have some lastrum that can serve as light horde clearing. Salvoes are simply amazing with the new stratagem to pop vehicles, something your list only has in the telemon. In addition from that they provide beautiful, high quality shots, that can serve as late game character popping when the enemies screens fall apart or to plink a couple guys from an expensive squad.
Another would be to swap the magnifica for an Imperius. With a list this fast, the magnifica won't have as much of a bearing on the game as +1 att will. When you want something to be protected from shooting in 9th, you can hide it. And then this makes the already killy terminators into absolute machines after a teleport homer. With these 10 points you can grab a S+B guy for the guard, which is absolutely necessary if you take them for objective grabbing.


Also; not a change I'd suggest necessarily, but see how you like Valoris. His free 3cp is so amazing, but other than that he often feels too slow/underwhelming, especially in a list this quick. I've found duo bike captains to be a little more flexible and provide more of a nuisance to the enemy in some cases (also allowing you to triple up on S+B): have a play around and see what you think.

This is a strong list.

Not going to lie, but that is a nice list, and as an opponent I would find that hard to play capture the flag against. That being said an all heavy support list could crush it easily. You have basically 2 units that are dedicated anti-tank, the rest are anti-horde or less optimal at anti-t8. I would swap out the bikes for a second set of terms. But that's just me, and I usually like to come prepped to face off against at least 1-2 Repulsors/T8 Gun platforms.

Otherwise, I can't say anything bad. Great list!

Wasn't Greyknight saying something like this would do well? Just got 3rd at a GT (I think a Major too):

ADEPTUS CUSTODES

Shield Company: Shadowkeepers

Patrol Detachment -2/+2

(HQ Warlord) Ryokom and Shynobi – Shield Captain, Dawn eagle jet bike, Salvo launcher, Auric aquilas, Emperor’s companion, Slayer of the unclean -1CP 175pts

(HQ) Orionos – Shield Captain, Allarus terminator armor, Castellan axe, Balistus grenade launcher, Eagle’s Eye -1CP, Lockwarden -1 CP 115pts

(Troops) 3 Custodian Guard, Pyrithite spears 165pts

(Fast Attack) 4 Vertus Praetors, Salvo launchers, Interceptor lances, Dawn eagle jet bikes, 380pts

(Fast Attack) 3 Vertus Praetors, Salvo launchers, Interceptor lances, Dawn eagle jet bikes, 285pts

(Heavy Support) Caladius Grav-Tank, Twin arachnus heavy blaze cannon, Twin lastrum bolt cannon, 225pts

(Heavy Support) Caladius Grav-Tank, Twin iliastus accelerator cannon, Twin lastrum bolt cannon, 225pts

(Flyer) Ares Gunship, Magna blaze cannon, Two arachnus heavy blaze cannons, Two fire bombs, 430pts

Total 2000pts 9 CP

So my problem with the melta spears is that you are literally not able to use the +1 to wound strat on them, as they are not guardian spears. Also they suck at their intended purpose. 6" s8 shot for d3+3 damage?

Nah, just stick with regular spears and get the wound strat.

Yea the hurricanes were underwhelming last game and I like the idea of salvos

So, reading goonhammer marine article, thunderhammers seemingly did not go up to damage 4, unless they made a mistake. And honor the chapter was nerfed in what it effects.

These are two really big deals for custodes in a marine matchup as it limits the attritional damage our units take against the enemy in combat. And stops a slam captain from like acing a terminator squad (slam captains are still a thing)

stratigo wrote:
So, reading goonhammer marine article, thunderhammers seemingly did not go up to damage 4, unless they made a mistake. And honor the chapter was nerfed in what it effects.

These are two really big deals for custodes in a marine matchup as it limits the attritional damage our units take against the enemy in combat. And stops a slam captain from like acing a terminator squad (slam captains are still a thing)

Spot on. The other really big change is that only one unit is getting full hit re-rolls now, the rest of the army is only re-rolling ones. This makes (for me at least) the Vexilla Magnifica debate more interesting, as it will be more effective but is probably also less necessary.

I am still planning on leaning heavy on bikes cause I love em, so magnifica will remain my go to for a first turn survivability buff to a mega squad of bikes.

On another not, hurricane bikes could be cycling back into the meta as hordes get more dominant, with marines getting a pretty hard nerf on their former best anti horde option. Not entirely sure what marines do for efficient anti horde work now.

Custodes have a real weakness at both AT and at anti horde. I find that hurricanes simply do not make up the difference now they're priced equally- they do just not enough.

Salvoes, for me, are quite a bit more multi purpose. The fact they have the d3 profile that you can use too makes them far better in terms of adaptability. And while custodes are weak at AT, everyone knows that a couple of lucky salvo shots has the potential to shore up that weakness, whereas the hurricanes generally don't.

I think that salvoes are better for when you have one squad of bikes, but if you begin to lean in heavier and take another squad then that one should definitely be hurricanes.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Custodes have a real weakness at both AT and at anti horde. I find that hurricanes simply do not make up the difference now they're priced equally- they do just not enough.

Salvoes, for me, are quite a bit more multi purpose. The fact they have the d3 profile that you can use too makes them far better in terms of adaptability. And while custodes are weak at AT, everyone knows that a couple of lucky salvo shots has the potential to shore up that weakness, whereas the hurricanes generally don't.

I think that salvoes are better for when you have one squad of bikes, but if you begin to lean in heavier and take another squad then that one should definitely be hurricanes.

I'll stake out the anti-position here. Salvos are largely unneeded unless you are almost pure Jetbikes. Telemons, Aries and Caladii, not to mention *melee* provide plenty of anti-T8. When I run Jetbikes, I take 8-10 of them. Stocking them all with hurricanes (and Sally Forth for Advance and Fire) gives you immense range and 96-120 shots.

Hordes, from Orks to Guard to Shield Drones to Tyraniid, will melt. You even get some adaptability against T7. 120 shots, Re-Rolling 1's to Hit, still rips off 12.96 wounds on average from a T7 3+ profile. The only time it doesn't work 'in a pinch' is T8+ or 2+'s which are less common to run into outside the Knight meta.

When you go almost pure though, you'll want some Salvos for those T8 targets.

there's a huge difference between 12 shots and 3. Salvos only, really, gain 1 ap and wound 1 better for a quarter of the firepower.

And lances are a solid AT tool, so you need it less than you'd think. Custodes lack RANGED AT, not all AT.

The main issue right now is everyone is teching to beat custodes.

stratigo wrote:
there's a huge difference between 12 shots and 3. Salvos only, really, gain 1 ap and wound 1 better for a quarter of the firepower.

And lances are a solid AT tool, so you need it less than you'd think. Custodes lack RANGED AT, not all AT.

The main issue right now is everyone is teching to beat custodes.

Well said. This is our first time on top of the mountain. Now everyone needs 3 squads of Exterminators(? Meltas) and 3 aggressor squads. It's basically waiting until the pendulum swings back to anti-cheap horde. Here's praying that IG conscripts and Bloodletters are horrifically broken to take the lens off us.

they aren't, but ork boyz, nurglings, and demonettes are appearing in vast quantities now.

Eradicators are so good that they will be in every competitive marine list regardless of what the marine player is teching for until they get a nerf though.

made a mistake sorry ^^

From the FAQ: Storm shields do the Marine thing now (+1 save / 4++) and heavy bolters+melta got the upgraded profiles...which just affects the Land Raider and Contemptor. So buff to Custodian Guard and Codex Vehicles.
With everyone else rocking new heavy bolters and melta, possibly a nerf to Custodes overall.

It is indeed an overall nerf