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greyknight12 wrote:Crazy idea I had, but hear me out: what about the Orion??
Basic plan would be this: also take a 5-6 man unit of allarus. Turn 1, unleash the lions, all walk into the flyer, fly to opponents deployment zone. Turn 2, everyone gets out and scatters. Secondaries would be linebreaker (or engage on all fronts) and deploy scramblers. Orion flies around and shoots stuff like the Ares does, while your opponent is faced with killing all those terminators or letting you max a juicy secondary. Obviously it's vulnerable to the same deployment zone issues the Ares is, but that would still give you scoring at the end of turn 3, which using linebreaker gives 12 points assuming you can keep 2 terminators alive for 3 turns.

If you have an orion, please try this and report back how it worked out for you, because I really dig that idea.

greyknight12 wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/25/sunday-preview-brothers-in-arms/

Imperial Armor up for preorder on Friday; I’m assuming it will have the FW Custodes stuff but could be wrong. Here’s to 2 weeks of hoping for a buff!

FINALLY! God, my body is so ready for this....heres hoping for some well deserved buffs for the achillus and galatus.

Here is hoping it's not nerfs! Here's hoping the new SW suppliment doesn't do us the dirty.

@Tiberius, et al:
I tried the line breaker tactic today against the new Dark Angels.
List:
Varied from my original plan and started both the terminators and a custodian guard squad in the flyer. Planned to unleash once I got out and wanted another durable unit back there. I went first, raised banners on 3 objectives and blasted at his leviathan dreadnought with the Orion and whiffed doing only 7 wounds. Big lesson for was turn 2; despite all my defensive buffs he shot the flyer down (it shot a blaze cannon on death for another 5 wounds to the dreadnought. But ravenwing plasma knights and devastator squad plus other shooting is overwhelming, worst though I rolled three 1s on the disembark. Killed a terminator and 2 shield guard, remaining shield guard and 1 more terminator died from extra shooting. Still split out the 3 terminators and did my thing, they ran around and tied up stuff until my bikes got there while my other shield guard hung out in combat on an objective. My characters existed solely to raise banners and on turn 3 I think I had 5.
His death wing knights deepstruck in on my shield-captain hiding in my backfield but he tanglefooted away the first charge and survived with 1 wound the next turn when they actually did charge. Some thoughts:
I didn’t think about a worst case with casualties from the disembark. Make sure to have enough ablative wounds!
Storm shields ignoring AP-1 in close combat is way more useful than I thought it would be.
Vital Intelligence is just as lopsided for go-first win as Goonhammer says it is.

Anybody try a Custodes / Robby-G build? Like a Defacto Emperor List?

So now we know that custodes are in the new FW book and sadly there are no sisters units.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/26/inside-imperial-armour-compendium/

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Anybody try a Custodes / Robby-G build? Like a Defacto Emperor List?

I have. In 8th it was a fun gimmick build, but even with +1 to Charge we still couldn't really get into combat in time.

Now with our new terminator protections it's probably a bit more viable to go Shadow Keepers and march yourself up there to do some damage.

Is Valdor getting stats something we can hope for?

Valdor isnt in the book, but Agamatus bikes are.

Was Valdor ever statted in an edition?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Was Valdor ever statted in an edition?

Just 30k I believe.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Was Valdor ever statted in an edition?

Unless Valdor comes back from self-imposed exile, I highly doubt that’ll ever happen. But in truth, it would be waaaaaaay cooler if he did instead of another loyalist Primarch.

nordsturmking,
Aren't all SOS units in the war of the Spider book already (granted there aren't many)?
only outstanding 30k/ 40k potential unit is the rather snazzy transport I thought?

Brass eye wrote:
nordsturmking,
Aren't all SOS units in the war of the Spider book already (granted there aren't many)?
only outstanding 30k/ 40k potential unit is the rather snazzy transport I thought?

Yes the 3 elites are in WotS but the 30k stuff would have been nice.

I doubt we will see more without some form of severe re-con. In the books it talks about them being a dying race, and Robby is sad that they were "allowed to wither". Alleya laments at the fact that there are less than 500 Battle trained sisters left, when before there were many times that. I guess they could just be like, hey we trained more sisters, but considering the pariahs are a 1/1000000 being, I don't see how many initiates they could suddenly "find". Let alone train and arm. But still, Cawl ret-con magic and a few upgrades, and suddenly we might have Plasma squads of SoS

I would have liked to get the 30k SoS transport, as its pretty awsome looking and has some interesting rules, but I guess they didnt want to try to convert it.

It would have been something like:

16 wounds, T8, Gravitic, Mv 12"/10"/6" 12 capacity, BS3+/4+/5+, 3+Sv

armed with 2 Multi-melta's or 2 missle launchers.

and would have ignore cover, -1 to hit in the shooting phase, light cover if being shot at from more than 12" away, D3 mortal wounds on a 4+ if it charges, and -2" Mv to a unit that it hits in the shooting phase.

It's pretty damn cool.

Okay im a real fething negative person and GWS and FW have really screwed me in the past and as much as i want this book (im ordering it) I do not want to see what they're gonna do to my Saggitarrum Guard, Telemon and Galatus Noughts. Galatus is already overpriced for what it can do and Telemon will probably be 300+ points and the Sagittarum Guard will follow along suit and get a 5-10 points increase making them not worth it anymore. These are my predictions based on FW's/GWS past and their 9th edition points wise increase. I hope to god im wrong and Telemon stays under 300, but i think its highly unlikely.

I am curious if they will amend any of the weapon damages to align with the latest fixes to power weapons or if they will even do it as an FAQ prior to a new codex if it comes out next year. It still doesn't feel right that nearly all custode melee weapons are D3 damage. I just hope the FW point adjustments align with the other custode 9th edition point increases. who knows maybe the 'new' points in the FW book will be a bench mark for what the new codex points will be? i assume the codex/ points is already sorted and just waiting its release somewhere.

Is the telemon really worth less than 300 though? It's not a repulsor, obviously, but it can do at least as much damage as one. They are amazingly under costed.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Is the telemon really worth less than 300 though? It's not a repulsor, obviously, but it can do at least as much damage as one. They are amazingly under costed.

I disagree. I think their damage output for their price is fairly low. I think they are are sufficiently durable for their cost however.
At max, a twin cannon telemon can do....12+10 wounds, standing still.
A twin cannon leviathan can lay out 20 shots at 2 damage each (40 damage max), not counting the heavy flamers, and is only roughly 50 points more.

I see your point, and yes, I agree. The most OP unit in SM FW is superior to our Dreadnaught. So a unit that was outright blocked at multiple tournaments is better than our unit. You are correct.

That being said, it doesn't change the point of my argument. What do you think the Telemon should cost? At 250 it costs less than a squad of bikes/Terminators. So the difference is 275, which I still think is way less than it's worth. I'd say the unit alone should be 200, and the weapons could be tweaked around, but it should be close to 300 with anything but fists. Fists should make it around 250.

The fists are fine if the didnt overcharge for the inbuilt flamers.

Yes they are str 6 -2 flamers (supposed to be plasma flamers), but even if the range goes to 12" they still cost too much at 15pts apiece.

Drop em to 10 points apiece, or up them to 2d6 hits instead of 2d3.

If the flamers get the change to 12, which is doubtful, I am still convinced they are at the right price. Are there any other models that hit 5 Strength 16 AP-3 D4 attacks at WS2 re-rolling 1s for a CP that also get built in 4d3 Blast flamers at 12" S6AP2 D1 for less than 30 points? I think 15 points would be raising the flags for NERF US TO HELL.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If the flamers get the change to 12, which is doubtful, I am still convinced they are at the right price. Are there any other models that hit 5 Strength 16 AP-3 D4 attacks at WS2 re-rolling 1s for a CP that also get built in 4d3 Blast flamers at 12" S6AP2 D1 for less than 30 points? I think 15 points would be raising the flags for NERF US TO HELL.

The problem is that with the prevalence of invulnerable saves, 5 attacks isn't doing much. 4++'s are handed out fairly frequently so you should really read it more as S16 AP-1 D4 attacks (which would put the ubiquitous 3+ save on a 4+). Realistically, only 1 or 2 of those wounds are going through the 4++ and then only 1 if they re-roll the save. Volume is king once you're S7 or over.

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If the flamers get the change to 12, which is doubtful, I am still convinced they are at the right price. Are there any other models that hit 5 Strength 16 AP-3 D4 attacks at WS2 re-rolling 1s for a CP that also get built in 4d3 Blast flamers at 12" S6AP2 D1 for less than 30 points? I think 15 points would be raising the flags for NERF US TO HELL.

The problem is that with the prevalence of invulnerable saves, 5 attacks isn't doing much. 4++'s are handed out fairly frequently so you should really read it more as S16 AP-1 D4 attacks (which would put the ubiquitous 3+ save on a 4+). Realistically, only 1 or 2 of those wounds are going through the 4++ and then only 1 if they re-roll the save. Volume is king once you're S7 or over.

Good points. My point was bringing that kind of titan smacking strength comes at a cost. saying they need a drop in points isn't fair. They are priced at their potential ability. They can drop a knight to it's weakest bracket in a single melee phase, and if it did any wounds in the shooting phase (Likely) then it's likely a dead knight. For under 300 points. That is insane. Imagine if the Shadowsword was only 250 points, because it has no invuln, and it's 2d3 shots of 2d6 damage are VERY swingy?

No, I think the Telemon is fine where it is. Things cost what they cost based off their potential, not off their averages. If that were the case, our Guardians would cost s lot less.

YEah thats what im saying man, Forgeworld does odd things to Elite Armies and it's units making them over costed for no good reason (Blight Drone). Telemon i've got a bad feeling is gonna creep on 300-350 points making it Dead in the water. I'm also thinking Sagittarum Guard are gonna be 55-60 points a model making them dead in the water as well. It sad but this is what FW does best.

Rahdok wrote:
YEah thats what im saying man, Forgeworld does odd things to Elite Armies and it's units making them over costed for no good reason (Blight Drone). Telemon i've got a bad feeling is gonna creep on 300-350 points making it Dead in the water. I'm also thinking Sagittarum Guard are gonna be 55-60 points a model making them dead in the water as well. It sad but this is what FW does best.

Keep in mind that FW is no longer writing the rules.

Right. GW wants their armies with new books to do really well in COVID, so there is more of a press on SMs right now. Have no doubt when Custodes Dex time comes around we will see significant changes, or my name isn't
ALWAYS MCWRONGABOUTGW III. Esq.

Honestly, I don’t want custodes to be a forge world faction. It’s just inflating the cost of the army beyond the means of many, and the value to cost of forgeworld models is fething insane in how poor it is

Too late. All our best units are already FW except for our sword and board guardians, bikes, and Trajann. I wonder what the Core rules will do to Trajann and Bikes costs though.

I am hoping not too much. I cant see how you can make units much more expensive and still keep it viable to build an army with. Making troops over 60 points a model for example, will just be too much to make them workable as a unit.