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2020/11/08 19:24:37
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Yeah no complaints from the forgeworld update (other than the nerf on the tanks with no points drop).
The new ares has basically doubled down on it as a board control option who can occasionally get lucky and take out some key targets.
It's always been good at blocking a chunk of the table, but now the new bomb is great at forcing your opponent to spread out if they dont wanna eat mortal wounds every turn.
Dread host got some life back with the fist telemon dropping in points.
Any list could benefit from a galatus now. Very nice with 8-10 attacks and no bracketing now. It costs 1 point cheaper than a guard squad (with one shield) now too.
Sag guard are right where they need to be.
They just missed the oppertunity to bring lastrum bolt cannon up to D2 (since its an actual heavy bolter?).
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2020/11/08 22:15:43
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
eh, no. That's not what the article said, and there's a solid chance that some of that is a general tailoring against the SM meta. There's probably also a discussion that needs to happen within the 40K community about what "S-tier" means (hint: it's not "wins more than 50% of matches")
The 40K Stats "TIWP" is probably more productive for us...everything Falcon has been saying is that space marines are our hard counter (based on the data so far), and so we should be more or less tailoring against them...in other words, we may have a high win percentage but are failing to follow through with a tournament win. So we need to find out a way to beat marines consistently, which is probably a more productive topic for this thread than wishlisting for a new codex.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/11/08 22:37:37
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
we should be more or less tailoring against them..
Uh, I mean this is obvious right? If everyone's playing marines, you should be tailoring against marines.
Fact is, Custodes are a top-tier faction relative to the post-codex meta. And SM are currently a mid-tier faction relative to the post-codex meta. No point comparing a faction's strength to any other meta, unless you are talking about casual play.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/08 22:38:13
2020/11/08 22:39:51
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
we should be more or less tailoring against them..
Uh, I mean this is obvious right? If everyone's playing marines, you should be tailoring against marines.
Fact is, Custodes are a top-tier faction relative to the post-codex meta. And SM are currently a mid-tier faction relative to the post-codex meta. No point comparing a faction's strength to any other meta, unless you are talking about casual play.
Are they? Because mirror matches are gonna drag the SM win-rate towards 50%.
I think looking at top placing results will tell a more accurate story.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/11/08 22:49:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
artific3r wrote: If SM mirror matches are dragging them toward 50 and Custodes toward 57, which faction do you think is stronger, relative to the meta?
Custodes represent less than half the playerbase of Marines, as shown on that image shared.
And mirror matches ALWAYS drag towards 50. Always. That's how it works.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/08 22:57:14
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/11/08 23:26:29
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
we should be more or less tailoring against them..
Uh, I mean this is obvious right? If everyone's playing marines, you should be tailoring against marines.
Fact is, Custodes are a top-tier faction relative to the post-codex meta. And SM are currently a mid-tier faction relative to the post-codex meta. No point comparing a faction's strength to any other meta, unless you are talking about casual play.
Marines are mid tier? In the last 20 tournaments listed on 40kstat.com codex marines made up 34% of the top 4 placings.
2020/11/08 23:30:24
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Again, this is jumping the shark. To say that somehow the entire Meta chasing world MISSED that Custodes were S-tier (What the hell does that even mean?)
And after just a few months, Marines (General) are somehow mid tier, is missing the forest thru the trees in the worst way.
Properly played and meta'd to the brim, Salamanders are one the the most powerful forces in the game.
It's like saying as long as you don't count Eraditcators or Heavy Intercessors, Custodes are the best. Here's a quick clue, we're not, and we don't want to be. Nerfs come to those at the top, and we do not want to get any nerfs. I am really not sure where you validate your claim in any of your data. It's just a bunch of raw data. As my old CO used to say, So what's the skinny? Extrapolate your data and show how it proves your claim that Marines are bad and Custodes are the tatas.
2020/11/09 02:00:46
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Since we're once again getting sidetracked from actual tactics discussion I'll point out that Custodes are winning games but not tournaments...40kStats doesn't have their graphs up past second week of October but based on the few podcast appearances they've done that seems to be the case, and the issue seems to be marine matches. Space Marines aren't an auto-win, and with a massive player base they will definitely have poor showings bringing down their overall win rate but are still winning and top 4-ing tournaments. There's also a whole slew of supplements coming out over the next couple months which will shake stuff up. So again, I'll ask for an actual tactics discussion instead of the past 2 pages of wishlisting and the previous page of global meta discussion. Please.
As a sidenote for people who would rather speculate and debate the meta instead of play games or discuss tactics, here's the Top 4s from GTs on 40k stats: https://www.40kstats.com/top-4s
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/09 02:03:59
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/11/09 10:49:21
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I really like the Terminator captain with the admonimortis and all-seeing annihilator. Exploding 6s are imo extremely valuable for us because all of our attacks in melee are high quality. I think he especially goes well when he gives the exploding 6s to a Galatus dread with the eternal penitent strat. 7 attacks minimum with additional exploding 6s and flat 3dmg makes this guy walk through almost any elite infantry and many lighter vehicles.
I also gave two lances to my big venatari squad. I just want to try them out and that is also how I modeled them.
The telemon is meant to walk up and bully the midfield along with Trajann and the vexilla until the terminators come in. Saggitarum and guard squads are there to hold objectives primarily and be hard to shift (more shields would be better but I couldn't fit them).
2020/11/09 16:03:46
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
@Tiberias I think the list is fine, the only thing I’d recommend is dropping you Venetari down to 5 models for coherency purposes unless you’re comfortable moving so they maintain it. If you mess up coherency it sucks to lose 55 pt models. With the extra points you could add another Sag guard to the squad or give them misericordias and more shields for the guard.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/11/09 16:05:26
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Is there any argument for making the Guardians just all shield/sword?
I don't see the down side if they are just squatting on objectives and camping out. They can withstand most shooting, and while they can't be shooting back, they really shouldn't be. So where is the major issue with just going all shields? I'm not seeing the point of the 1shield/2 spears anymore.
2020/11/09 16:31:27
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
greyknight12 wrote:@Tiberias I think the list is fine, the only thing I’d recommend is dropping you Venetari down to 5 models for coherency purposes unless you’re comfortable moving so they maintain it. If you mess up coherency it sucks to lose 55 pt models. With the extra points you could add another Sag guard to the squad or give them misericordias and more shields for the guard.
I actually thought about that, and you are right. Probably best to drop one venatari and add more shields.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Is there any argument for making the Guardians just all shield/sword?
I don't see the down side if they are just squatting on objectives and camping out. They can withstand most shooting, and while they can't be shooting back, they really shouldn't be. So where is the major issue with just going all shields? I'm not seeing the point of the 1shield/2 spears anymore.
The point was that I couldn't fit more shields in the original list. Just using shield guard is still the way to go.
Here's the updated list....misericordias for everyone! One more thing...me raving about the Galatus being good in general, but especially when buffed by all-seeing annihilatior is mostly because I really like the Galatus. I stand by my assessment that it is really good, but I think it's fair to say that the achillus would probably provide better overall value.
All-seeing anihilator is great, but hard to take superior creation off your termy captain. What i do is take a terminator vexhilla with it and the +1 attack banner for maximum buffage.
Depending on who im up against, i'll just advance him up the middle with either my telemon or a guard squad. Turn 2 my aquillon can drop in wherever need be.
Double caladius with autocannons is my shooty component. Them and trajann still hold my backfield and it'll remain that way until the core nerfs come into play.
My admonitoris captain drops in wherever necessary to score me points.
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2020/11/11 21:31:34
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Hey all I have a question, are sisters of silence worth it in a custodes army? Also those two special characters I forgot what they are called just released.
I'm thinking of adding them cause I love the models but how are they all rules wise in your opinions?
2020/11/11 21:58:09
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
They are great harassing units, or to maybe steal an objective for a turn, but they generally don't earn their points back. A few people at Goonhammer are praying for an excuse to run them, but you are generally better off taking elites from Custodes, and dropping a Culexus instead.
2020/11/11 21:58:44
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
ballzonya wrote: Hey all I have a question, are sisters of silence worth it in a custodes army? Also those two special characters I forgot what they are called just released.
I'm thinking of adding them cause I love the models but how are they all rules wise in your opinions?
Sisters aura range is just too small and their bodies too weak. They'll get killed by ranged before they get far enough up the board to do much (and buff casters can basically ignore them forever).
Valerian and Aleya are the characters. Aleya is amazing because she has character protection to let her huddle with Custodes and get close enough for her aura (and the Sisters denial stratagem) to actually work. Valerian is overpriced and basically junk. Unfortunately, the Valerian tax basically makes Aleya non-competitive (since you have to take them together).
2020/11/11 22:47:05
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
ballzonya wrote: That's a shame! Do you find sisters of Battle make better Allies on the board? I really like the sisters of silence models too.
The models are cool. Sisters of Battle are good allies but mostly for their ranged anti-tank. A Spearhead of 3 Exorcists, an Imagifier and a Cannoness (all Valorous Heart so you ignore AP-1 and AP-2) is pretty sweet.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/11 23:00:07
2020/11/12 00:31:26
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
ballzonya wrote: Hey all I have a question, are sisters of silence worth it in a custodes army? Also those two special characters I forgot what they are called just released.
I'm thinking of adding them cause I love the models but how are they all rules wise in your opinions?
They're cheap button boopers.
That's all.
They fit in a detachment without costing CP and deploy scramblers. This is the job they are good for.
It's a pretty useful job all told, but it's an utterly unexciting one.
2020/11/12 00:53:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
So how do you suggest handling pysker-heavy armies? I am just moving to Custodes (from Orks!), and had my butt handed to me by Thousand Sons with unstoppable casts. He had a squad of 10 termies with a 3+ invuln that he could move anywhere.
Honestly curious. Thx.
2020/11/12 01:24:19
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Yeah, not gonna lie, Custodes vs. any heavy Psyker army is a bit hard right now. Everything we have is useless to stop them casting, and unless we go first, we usually can loose without much effort. The biggest strength we have is either Character targeting assasination through Culexus, Bolter SoS, or Terminators. Terminators can effectively drop most Characters if they get within range, usually turn 2. Allarus can do some nasty work against Arhiman and other HQ casters, but you will need some big guns to take down the Scarab Terminators.
2020/11/12 01:32:32
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Goreshrek wrote: So how do you suggest handling pysker-heavy armies? I am just moving to Custodes (from Orks!), and had my butt handed to me by Thousand Sons with unstoppable casts. He had a squad of 10 termies with a 3+ invuln that he could move anywhere.
Honestly curious. Thx.
Take slay the witch and enjoy maxing it.
2020/11/12 02:19:15
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
There are 2 options for dealing with buffed units, both variants of “kill them”:
Snipers, either Allarus or allies to target their casters.
Overwhelming death...Aquillons, triple caladius/telemon, etc. Have so many high quality attacks it doesn’t matter how buffed they are.
Another thing to remember is that usually all the buffs go on one thing. If you can afford to ignore that thing or slow it down (#tanglefoot) you can kill the other stuff in their list and wait for the buffs to fail and pounce. We have a lot of tough stuff, for example the once-dreaded possessed bomb only hits at AP-2 which means terminators tie it down and laugh at it for one CP a turn.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/11/12 04:27:10
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Thanks for the responses.
I took Slay the Witch, never got near a caster - they just hid behind the rest of the army.
My list was 'what I have assembled and started painting', so the terminators are still shrink-wrapped. Very hard to find Custodes anywhere.
People seem down on SoS, though.
2020/11/12 08:24:25
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Goreshrek wrote: So how do you suggest handling pysker-heavy armies? I am just moving to Custodes (from Orks!), and had my butt handed to me by Thousand Sons with unstoppable casts. He had a squad of 10 termies with a 3+ invuln that he could move anywhere.
Honestly curious. Thx.
What else did he have in his list?
Custodes have 3 options for deny the witch. 2 strats(1 from war of the spider) and a warlord trait.
2020/11/12 12:15:01
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
There are options yes, but against an army that can do degrading smites 6 times a turn, we don't really have a good option, unless we take a psyker of our own, and they happen to be within 18 inches. I have seen Bike captains with the deny trait used well but even that is a bandaid on a gaping chest wound.
2020/11/12 13:06:59
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Here's a great breakdown of Custodes shield spam going 4-1 at WATC last weekend. The list absolutely destroyed every single SM list it encountered and only lost against Slaanesh daemons. The loss isn't a surprise since Slaanesh is the top army at the moment and naturally comes with absurd melee output to win the objective game against Custodes.
