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Jet bikes are back baby! Maybe.

Aquillons taking a firm lead over allarus in the termi wars.

Am I misreading things, or did the Vexilus Praetor get a lot cheaper as they're not paying for their flag any more?

The points nerf to allarus had to happen. They would have been too good with the new NWSWF secondary.

A unit of 10 with spears at 650 pts just had to have a single one live to get you 5 points.

Now that same unit is 700pts, which puts them more in line with our other heavy lifting options.

Guard going down is great, bikes going down is great, and we can only hope that the vex gets his flag for free (as he was overcosted).

Also officially the ares/orion can be deployed on any map and not be useless for a turn. We had already come to that consensus here on dakka, but many did not agree.



On the flip side, our tanks get yet another nerf, not being able to use Vengence of the Machine Spirit strat anymore (its only useable by Ven Land Raiders). Pretty much killed them honestly. With the loss of rerolls incoming with our new book they are grossly inefficient in the current state of the game. Being able to shoot the main gun after getting blown up was really their only saving grace.

the drop in cost makes the special spear types on offer from FW a lot less competitive, as its 45 for a normal spearman and 55 for a Adrasite (flat damage 3 spear) and 60 for a Pyrithite (melta spear). Sagittarum guard also gain cost relative guardian spearmen (53 with misa), but they are different enough its not quite a straight comparison.

im mildly suprised by the raise to the Wardens, i was under the impression they they were kinda meh at 3ppm more than guardians, now they've paying 10 points over regular spearmen for.....what? a 6+FNP, one extra attack and a point of Ld? that seems a little steep, frankly.

the cheaper jetbikes is cool. saving 30 points of a squad of them is a non-trivial saving. hell, saving 12 odd points off a guardian trio will add up pretty quickly as well. Even with our high PPM costs, that starting to turn into a extra man or two into a squad.

ran some quick maths on my current (planned) 2k list. I reckon this saves me about 60-80 points form units dropping costs (assuming the standard is free). which is rather annoying, because if i had known that was coming i would have built my Aquillons with the Adrathic Destructors instead of the storm bolters. Oh, well.

Huh, I did not expect them to make dawneagle bikes cheaper, but I'll take it.

Also, am I missing something or is the new "while we stand we fight" secondary really good now with a large blob of allarus termis that you can then split up with unleash the lions? Correct me if I'm wrong here but after you split them up, you could just hide one single terminator of that original big unit and still score the 5 points...isnt that bonkers good?

Thats why they spear allarus went up by 5pts.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Thats why they spear allarus went up by 5pts.

Right, makes sense. Sooo...does that mean a meme list with 2 huge units of allarus terminators is going to be a thing?

I believe wardens work out the same as their misericordia is included in their base cost.

Sprugly

You can run a spearhead with 20 allarus, 5 aquillons, a termy captain, and a vexilla (assuming the banner is free) or Greyfax.


It plays similar to the all shield guard list (which also got better).

Unleash the lions and hide. 20 allarus terminators hiding out of LOS will be basically unkillable as one man units.

Bikes down 10ppm WOOOOOOO
finally an excuse to field two units of 5 with a captain

I'm mostly really into a Vexilus Praetor now. 20 pts for 2 wounds and a -1 to hit bubble is so so worth it...

How many extra bikes does this shake out to in an all bike list? 1-2? Extra shields in an all shield list? guessing about 5-7?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
You can run a spearhead with 20 allarus, 5 aquillons, a termy captain, and a vexilla (assuming the banner is free) or Greyfax.


It plays similar to the all shield guard list (which also got better).

Unleash the lions and hide. 20 allarus terminators hiding out of LOS will be basically unkillable as one man units.

Denying 15 secondaries is one thing. The question is can 25 terminators win on primaries ?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many extra bikes does this shake out to in an all bike list? 1-2? Extra shields in an all shield list? guessing about 5-7?

If we're just spamming an Outrider:

Old Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 19.2ish Jetbikes.

New Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 21.5ish Jetbikes.

So a difference of about 2 Jetbikes. I imagine the major benefit will be allowing Jetbikes to more easily slot solid numbers into hybrid lists of Jetbikes + other Custodes rather than massively boosting pure Jetbikes.

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many extra bikes does this shake out to in an all bike list? 1-2? Extra shields in an all shield list? guessing about 5-7?

If we're just spamming an Outrider:

Old Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 19.2ish Jetbikes.

New Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 21.5ish Jetbikes.

So a difference of about 2 Jetbikes. I imagine the major benefit will be allowing Jetbikes to more easily slot solid numbers into hybrid lists of Jetbikes + other Custodes rather than massively boosting pure Jetbikes.

Can I presume this is with zero Miseracordias?

atm miseracordias are mostly only worth it on sagg guard or in a dread host list using ASA.

or just to fill out points.

I would never put more than 39pts into miser's though, as thats enough to upgrade a guard into a terminator.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many extra bikes does this shake out to in an all bike list? 1-2? Extra shields in an all shield list? guessing about 5-7?

If we're just spamming an Outrider:

Old Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 19.2ish Jetbikes.

New Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 21.5ish Jetbikes.

So a difference of about 2 Jetbikes. I imagine the major benefit will be allowing Jetbikes to more easily slot solid numbers into hybrid lists of Jetbikes + other Custodes rather than massively boosting pure Jetbikes.

Can I presume this is with zero Miseracordias?

Oh, yeah, no Misericordias.

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many extra bikes does this shake out to in an all bike list? 1-2? Extra shields in an all shield list? guessing about 5-7?

If we're just spamming an Outrider:

Old Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 19.2ish Jetbikes.

New Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 21.5ish Jetbikes.

So a difference of about 2 Jetbikes. I imagine the major benefit will be allowing Jetbikes to more easily slot solid numbers into hybrid lists of Jetbikes + other Custodes rather than massively boosting pure Jetbikes.

Can I presume this is with zero Miseracordias?

Oh, yeah, no Misericordias.

Also gonna go out on a limb and say no Melta Rockets?

Confusion as to whether those Melta rocket's ever got the upgrade to melta weapons. I thought they did, because a dev said "All Melta Weapons" but it appears they have not. so Full Hurricanes?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many extra bikes does this shake out to in an all bike list? 1-2? Extra shields in an all shield list? guessing about 5-7?

If we're just spamming an Outrider:

Old Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 19.2ish Jetbikes.

New Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 21.5ish Jetbikes.

So a difference of about 2 Jetbikes. I imagine the major benefit will be allowing Jetbikes to more easily slot solid numbers into hybrid lists of Jetbikes + other Custodes rather than massively boosting pure Jetbikes.

Can I presume this is with zero Miseracordias?

Oh, yeah, no Misericordias.

Also gonna go out on a limb and say no Melta Rockets?

Confusion as to whether those Melta rocket's ever got the upgrade to melta weapons. I thought they did, because a dev said "All Melta Weapons" but it appears they have not. so Full Hurricanes?

The Salvo launcher was never a melta weapon. It just gets called that sometimes, because of the strat from war of the spider that let's you roll 2d6 pick the highest for the dmg and you also don't have to be in half range to do this(archeotech ammunitions).

I swear there was a "Melta Missile" strat or something. Where am I getting that from, damnit.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I swear there was a "Melta Missile" strat or something. Where am I getting that from, damnit.

The Salvo Launcher has 2 Profiles
Flakkburst (Blast d3, str 7, ap-1, d3 damage, +1 to hit vs fly)
Melta (1 shot, str 8, ap-4,, d6, reroll to wound vs vehicles)

Probably where it came from.
The Archeotech Munitions Stratagem lets you roll 2 dice for a weapon that has a random damage value, and select the greater.

So the 'melta missile' is a weird hybrid sort of thing.

Yes the melta missile name for the weapon profile is kinda misleading. I just meant that it never had the old melta rule, it just got a better version of that rule through the archeotech ammunition strat, which is what made them viable in the first place as before they were too unreliable.

I am guessing the missile came from the actual model? Where it's a missile pod/rack? Doesn't matter, my question has been answered, thank you to those who did. Did our Ares get changed at all? Or Sisters?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many extra bikes does this shake out to in an all bike list? 1-2? Extra shields in an all shield list? guessing about 5-7?

If we're just spamming an Outrider:

Old Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 19.2ish Jetbikes.

New Points: 1 Jetbike Captain and 21.5ish Jetbikes.

So a difference of about 2 Jetbikes. I imagine the major benefit will be allowing Jetbikes to more easily slot solid numbers into hybrid lists of Jetbikes + other Custodes rather than massively boosting pure Jetbikes.

Can I presume this is with zero Miseracordias?

Oh, yeah, no Misericordias.

Also gonna go out on a limb and say no Melta Rockets?

Confusion as to whether those Melta rocket's ever got the upgrade to melta weapons. I thought they did, because a dev said "All Melta Weapons" but it appears they have not. so Full Hurricanes?

So I didn't see a new price for Salvos in the Munitorum Errata. Seems to be the same price regardless of loadouts still.

sprugly wrote:
I believe wardens work out the same as their misericordia is included in their base cost.

Sprugly

ah, yes your right. still, my base point of them being 7-10 points more than a regular guardian still stands, as those stat increases are not really worth that much extra on our already high baseline stats.

I am guessing the missile came from the actual model? Where it's a missile pod/rack? Doesn't matter, my question has been answered, thank you to those who did. Did our Ares get changed at all? Or Sisters?

the missile launcher is part of the base plastic kit, and replaces the hurricane bolters in the front (it looks very simmilar, but its a cluster of 5 warheads not a cluster of 6 bolter barrels).

sisters of silence have had no points changes, all still the same cost. Ares is 450points still.

So apparently the different choices of vexilla for our vexillus praetor remain free on the official 40k app. And the vexillus remains at what, 85 points or something?(without the castellan axe equipped though I believe)

That seems too good to be true. Do you think they will amend it or did we just come out of these points updates extremely lucky?

I think there are a lot of errors, and we should hold off trusting any digital source until GW confirms it. Like the extra 50 points to all Baneblade variants.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think there are a lot of errors, and we should hold off trusting any digital source until GW confirms it. Like the extra 50 points to all Baneblade variants.

You are right. Either way I am happy with the point updates even if we don't get to keep our super cheep vexillus praetor.

That does raise the question: What form would confirmation of a FAQ take? I don't think GW has ever FAQ'd a FAQ, other than a day 1 change/FAQ to the SM Supplements(?) that came out back in 8th. I don't think there are still CA's going on, but we might get some answer from their official twiiter/Facebook, although I doubt anyone has asked. No one cares about Custodes flags or Baneblades right now, given the changes to everything else.

Would it be too much of a TFG move to replace my Ares (counts as) with a Knight as my AT platform in an all Infantry list? I like the idea of an giant Golden Knight with AT guns dispensing hot death. Would this get me never invited to game night again?