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so using battle scribe I've come up with a 2000 point list, not the best of one but it's one I'll be able to, mostly, deploy with my inital pre-order


HQs:

1 Trajan Valoris
1 Shield Captain with Guardian Spear

Troops.
3x3 squads of Custodes guard with Guardian spears

Elites:
1 squad of 3 Allarus Custodians, with guardian spears
2 Vexillus Praetors with Vexilla Magnifcia


Fast Attack:
1 Squad of Veretus Preators with Hurricane Bolters

Heavy Support:
1 Venerable Land Raider

I know the Land Raider is kinda expensive but I have one so I might as well use it for now. I might replace it with a pair of dreadnoughts and maybe be able to upgrade my termies to have axes as a result

Amishprn86 wrote:

WOW thank you very much! Do we need to go get that 1 file or just update?

Audustum wrote:

Really fast! Thank you!

Normal update, sometimes takes a little bit to pick up. It was a slow week at work and there was just enough info in the prerelease stuff to flesh out a good framework.

A question of preference for custodes players: since relics can be changed pre-battle and are a bigger component in strategies than usual, do you prefer keeping the default wargear (non-relic vexillas and the grenade launcher for example) on the sheet even in cases where it would be replaced by a relic selection? Example hiding the Vexilla Defensor if the Fulminaris Aggressor is selected, or showing both.

Remember if you find bugs to use the reporting tool so I can fix them! (the stormshield one on CG is already fixed for next release)

 WindstormSCR wrote:

Amishprn86 wrote:

WOW thank you very much! Do we need to go get that 1 file or just update?

Audustum wrote:

Really fast! Thank you!

Normal update, sometimes takes a little bit to pick up. It was a slow week at work and there was just enough info in the prerelease stuff to flesh out a good framework.

A question of preference for custodes players: since relics can be changed pre-battle and are a bigger component in strategies than usual, do you prefer keeping the default wargear (non-relic vexillas and the grenade launcher for example) on the sheet even in cases where it would be replaced by a relic selection? Example hiding the Vexilla Defensor if the Fulminaris Aggressor is selected, or showing both.

Remember if you find bugs to use the reporting tool so I can fix them! (the stormshield one on CG is already fixed for next release)

I think thats proably a good idea myself

BrianDavion wrote:
so using battle scribe I've come up with a 2000 point list, not the best of one but it's one I'll be able to, mostly, deploy with my inital pre-order


HQs:

1 Trajan Valoris
1 Shield Captain with Guardian Spear

Troops.
3x3 squads of Custodes guard with Guardian spears

Elites:
1 squad of 3 Allarus Custodians, with guardian spears
2 Vexillus Praetors with Vexilla Magnifcia


Fast Attack:
1 Squad of Veretus Preators with Hurricane Bolters

Heavy Support:
1 Venerable Land Raider

I know the Land Raider is kinda expensive but I have one so I might as well use it for now. I might replace it with a pair of dreadnoughts and maybe be able to upgrade my termies to have axes as a result

list suffers from lack of ability to threaten T7 vehicles.

take axes where possible, spears on the regular CG with a shield or two for tanking.


my take on a pure custodes 2k:

Battalion
2x shield cap with castellan axes
3x CG with 2 spears 1 S&B each
Venerable Raider

Vanguard:
Biker Capt with Auric Aquilis and superior creation WLT
Allarus custodians with axes x5
Vexillus Praetor with axe
Allarus Vexilus with Praetorian Plate


gives you just enough CP for the extra relic and bomb if your opponent hands it to you, plenty of axes for AT work, close to melee and use spears to clean up the screens and other stuff.

ultimately pure custodes are a heavily melee list, and we may as well embrace that and kit appropriately.

personally I'd rather take two squads of custodian wardens over a venerable raider, but it's all the Ranged AT we've got until forgeworld decides to grace us with a datasheet for the Caladius

yeah the land raider is also on the list by virtue of my having one and wanting to use it. on any other list I'd worry that such a big obvious tank by itself would get whittled down, but Custodes means pretty much EVERYTHING needs anti tank guns

Wulfey wrote:

Ordana wrote:
What do you even spend all those CP's on.

I don't see the point of a Battalion AND a Brigade.

3CP to get two relics. And 2CP per biker HQ to get victor of the blood games on all of them. It gives you 1 reroll hit, wound, and SAVE per TURN. This means you can reroll a save on every overwatch and every opponent turn. On models with 3++ and 2+ saves, that is a huge increase in durability and worth the 2 CP. Think about how many save rolls that is over the course of the game. And if you are watching the LVO stream, yes, if you play competitively and play imperium SCOUTS are mandatory. If you can't space out enemy deep strikes then you lose, period. And if you are bringing the mandatory 3 scout squads, why not take a battalion for more CP? In ITC you just have to have scouts to deal with armies that deep strike every one of their threats. Think obliterators, 30 bloodletter bombs, scions, tau, hell tyranid have some deep strike tricks. Bring scouts or just lose.

I'd be interested in knowing what relics you were thinking of giving the jetbikes

WindstormSCR wrote:

Spoiler:

 WindstormSCR wrote:

Amishprn86 wrote:

WOW thank you very much! Do we need to go get that 1 file or just update?

Audustum wrote:

Really fast! Thank you!

Normal update, sometimes takes a little bit to pick up. It was a slow week at work and there was just enough info in the prerelease stuff to flesh out a good framework.

A question of preference for custodes players: since relics can be changed pre-battle and are a bigger component in strategies than usual, do you prefer keeping the default wargear (non-relic vexillas and the grenade launcher for example) on the sheet even in cases where it would be replaced by a relic selection? Example hiding the Vexilla Defensor if the Fulminaris Aggressor is selected, or showing both.

Remember if you find bugs to use the reporting tool so I can fix them! (the stormshield one on CG is already fixed for next release)

Good work. I think hiding replaced wargear might be the way to go, like Eldar Witchblade/Spear option and such.

Another question, why does the Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator have a non-removable Misericordia as default?

X078 wrote:

WindstormSCR wrote:

Spoiler:

 WindstormSCR wrote:

Amishprn86 wrote:

WOW thank you very much! Do we need to go get that 1 file or just update?

Audustum wrote:

Really fast! Thank you!

Normal update, sometimes takes a little bit to pick up. It was a slow week at work and there was just enough info in the prerelease stuff to flesh out a good framework.

A question of preference for custodes players: since relics can be changed pre-battle and are a bigger component in strategies than usual, do you prefer keeping the default wargear (non-relic vexillas and the grenade launcher for example) on the sheet even in cases where it would be replaced by a relic selection? Example hiding the Vexilla Defensor if the Fulminaris Aggressor is selected, or showing both.

Remember if you find bugs to use the reporting tool so I can fix them! (the stormshield one on CG is already fixed for next release)

Good work. I think hiding replaced wargear might be the way to go, like Eldar Witchblade/Spear option and such.

Another question, why does the Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator have a non-removable Misericordia as default?

I would assume because thats the only weapon he can get, since the axes and spears go in the other hand.

Tactics question: What standard would you give to a terminator Vexilia teleporting in with a termie captain and four dudes? I was thinking Magnifica, just to make it harder to hit them and make plasma blow up easier, but Imperialis is so tempting...

 Crazyterran wrote:

X078 wrote:

WindstormSCR wrote:

Spoiler:

 WindstormSCR wrote:

Amishprn86 wrote:

WOW thank you very much! Do we need to go get that 1 file or just update?

Audustum wrote:

Really fast! Thank you!

Normal update, sometimes takes a little bit to pick up. It was a slow week at work and there was just enough info in the prerelease stuff to flesh out a good framework.

A question of preference for custodes players: since relics can be changed pre-battle and are a bigger component in strategies than usual, do you prefer keeping the default wargear (non-relic vexillas and the grenade launcher for example) on the sheet even in cases where it would be replaced by a relic selection? Example hiding the Vexilla Defensor if the Fulminaris Aggressor is selected, or showing both.

Remember if you find bugs to use the reporting tool so I can fix them! (the stormshield one on CG is already fixed for next release)

Good work. I think hiding replaced wargear might be the way to go, like Eldar Witchblade/Spear option and such.

Another question, why does the Vexillus Praetor in Allarus Terminator have a non-removable Misericordia as default?

I would assume because thats the only weapon he can get, since the axes and spears go in the other hand.

Tactics question: What standard would you give to a terminator Vexilia teleporting in with a termie captain and four dudes? I was thinking Magnifica, just to make it harder to hit them and make plasma blow up easier, but Imperialis is so tempting...

Just got the Codex and it's an error. Model may take a Misericordia so it is not default.

A: Imperialis for the tagging along with the Allarus would be my choice most of the times. But the -1 is also good. Depends on the rest of your army i guess.

I would go for the Vexilla Magnifica to play a bit defensively just in case your guys don't make the 9 inch charge, they'll at least be a little more durable to enemy shooting with the -1 to hit. They're monsters in CC already so +1 A might be overkill unless you plan on charging them at a Baneblade or a Knight or something.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
I would go for the Vexilla Magnifica to play a bit defensively just in case your guys don't make the 9 inch charge, they'll at least be a little more durable to enemy shooting with the -1 to hit. They're monsters in CC already so +1 A might be overkill unless you plan on charging them at a Baneblade or a Knight or something.

Starting to feel the same - especially when points are taken into account. 50 points for +1A feels excessive, when -1 to hit is only 30 points.

I'm trying to compare the value of Custodes to what we have already, for Astra Militarum lists specifically.

There's a lot to like about the biker HQ, but there's a lot to like about many things.

3x Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Bike, in a Supreme Command for 480 points

vs

Celestine, 2 Geminae Superia, Culexus Assassin, 2 Eversor Assassins, in a Vanguard for 475 points.

Unless something seriously convinces me otherwise, I'm not seeing how the bikers would offer more for an AM list of any kind. I'm not saying the bikes are far off, but they're behind. Feel free to counterargue.

 Therion wrote:
I'm trying to compare the value of Custodes to what we have already, for Astra Militarum lists specifically.

There's a lot to like about the biker HQ, but there's a lot to like about many things.

3x Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Bike, in a Supreme Command for 480 points

vs

Celestine, 2 Geminae Superia, Culexus Assassin, 2 Eversor Assassins, in a Vanguard for 475 points.

Unless something seriously convinces me otherwise, I'm not seeing how the bikers would offer more for an AM list of any kind. I'm not saying the bikes are far off, but they're behind. Feel free to counterargue.

Well, depends what you use each for. If Celestine is just there for the invuln, the Culexus to stop smite and the Eversors to charge screens, then the 3 Captains will always be worth more in terms of damage output. But, on the flip side, the Captains only really supply damage.

When you also put the 2 sets against each other, the Eversors will die instantly, Culexus won't be able to do much other than lock 1 Captain in combat a few turns, and Celestine won't be able to take out 2 Captains... Maybe 1, but not 2 at once.

Why would Celestine be somewhere just for the invuln? Her unit fights crazy well and is the definition of value city. Culexus adds a large amount of psychic defence, a speedbump and minor damage. Eversors add pressure and damage.

If you want to compare damage, do a comparison vs GEQ and MEQ on the charge. Let both groups shoot all their guns and then charge. I'd bet they're pretty close to each other. Certainly the Custodes wouldn't be worth a lot more despite the hurricanes naturally being awesome.

In a 'let's fight each other' the charging player would win. Food for thought is that the Assassins can deep strike, and Celestine has vastly longer reach than the Bikers, so who is more likely to get the jump in this 'let's fight each other' pepsi challenge?

That said, the 'let's fight each other' isn't in any way relevant. What's relevant is how the groups make an Astra Militarum army better. Then there's other options too, like adding Blood Angels to the AM force. Looks like many of the top lists at LVO have Death Companies doing some heavy lifting...

I'd say if you're adding anything to guard, the relic vexillas for full and true morale immunity should top the list, from a buff perspective

 Therion wrote:
Why would Celestine be somewhere just for the invuln? Her unit fights crazy well and is the definition of value city. Culexus adds a large amount of psychic defence, a speedbump and minor damage. Eversors add pressure and damage.

If you want to compare damage, do a comparison vs GEQ and MEQ on the charge. Let both groups shoot all their guns and then charge. I'd bet they're pretty close to each other. Certainly the Custodes wouldn't be worth a lot more despite the hurricanes naturally being awesome.

In a 'let's fight each other' the charging player would win. Food for thought is that the Assassins can deep strike, and Celestine has vastly longer reach than the Bikers, so who is more likely to get the jump in this 'let's fight each other' pepsi challenge?

That said, the 'let's fight each other' isn't in any way relevant. What's relevant is how the groups make an Astra Militarum army better. Then there's other options too, like adding Blood Angels to the AM force. Looks like many of the top lists at LVO have Death Companies doing some heavy lifting...

What. The vast majority of lists I pull are guard infantry, fire raptors, dark reapers and scouts. I've seen like one blood Angels guy near the top.

watched a game in my local store today custodes vs space marines, custodes won but the thudnerhammer/storm sheild equipped captain did a LOT of damage to em

BrianDavion wrote:
watched a game in my local store today custodes vs space marines, custodes won but the thudnerhammer/storm sheild equipped captain did a LOT of damage to em

Just took a Custodes force against Raven Guard assault vets and a Guilliman parking lot (3 units of devastators, Cronus in predator, Fire Raptor). The Captain with the vets was similar. Did a lot of damage to one of my bike squads.

In my gamestore the meta now is 1500 points, and i really struggle to imagine an army of pure Custodes.

I would like to deploy a battalion, but with units of 5 or 3 guards?
Do you think it is a good idea to have a unit of 5 guards (sword and shield) to deepstrike in front of the enemy as a distraction?
Is it worth at 1,500 points to invest in melta weapons for the bike?
Which list do you recommend?

Thank amd sorry for the too many questions, but i'm kinda noob in 8th

for a 1500 point Battlaion you'll proably need to go with squads of 3,

 Therion wrote:
Why would Celestine be somewhere just for the invuln? Her unit fights crazy well and is the definition of value city. Culexus adds a large amount of psychic defence, a speedbump and minor damage. Eversors add pressure and damage.

If you want to compare damage, do a comparison vs GEQ and MEQ on the charge. Let both groups shoot all their guns and then charge. I'd bet they're pretty close to each other. Certainly the Custodes wouldn't be worth a lot more despite the hurricanes naturally being awesome.

In a 'let's fight each other' the charging player would win. Food for thought is that the Assassins can deep strike, and Celestine has vastly longer reach than the Bikers, so who is more likely to get the jump in this 'let's fight each other' pepsi challenge?

That said, the 'let's fight each other' isn't in any way relevant. What's relevant is how the groups make an Astra Militarum army better. Then there's other options too, like adding Blood Angels to the AM force. Looks like many of the top lists at LVO have Death Companies doing some heavy lifting...

I disagree on who charges first wins. The Evesors won't do anything vs the Biker Captains, the Culexus also will struggle massively vs a t6 Biker. It might take 2 rounds of combat to kill the assassins, but, it'd take waaaay more for the assassins to win.

Celestine, on the charge, will likely do 3-4 wounds (including 2 Gemini) to a Bike Captain. In reverse, a bike captain will deal 4-5 wounds to the squad on the charge.

Add in shooting before the charge - and thats another 1-2 wounds in favour of the Captain and only 0.4 more for Celestine. Next turn, Celestine should win the fight due to a Gemini coming back alive, but, if it's the Custodes turn, there is a reasonable expectation that the Captain could finish the fight.

This of course, isn't including the fact that the Captain can get a 3++. Would be close, but, the moment Celestine is facing more than 1 Captain, she'll likely get taken down very quickly.



Vs GEQ - best case scenario which includes shooting first.

Captain will kill 9 GEQ.

Celestine + 2 Gemini will kill 7 GEQ

Vs MEQ
Captain will kill 4 MEQ
Cesltine + 2 Gemini will kill 5 MEQ

So, Celestine will just win vs MEQ units, but the Captain will win vs GEQ - not much difference really.

In total, only 5 points difference between the two groups, so in a <500 point game, the Captains for me, would be worth more - but definitely down to preference at this point.

In a 500 point game three Bike Captains will be pretty hard to beat. Especially if you have the Relic Bike. Heck, could make two 3++ bikers if you are so inclined.

The captains can also deny Slay the Warlord, which is kind of a big deal. Your original warlord doesn't even have to be Custodes - they can 'steal' it from literally any imperial warlord.

Raulengrin wrote:
The captains can also deny Slay the Warlord, which is kind of a big deal. Your original warlord doesn't even have to be Custodes - they can 'steal' it from literally any imperial warlord.

Yeah.... players that are going to play Celestine (like me) with Custodes and calls out her to be the WL. Then has 3 Shield Captains on bikes running around....... lol

 Crazyterran wrote:
In a 500 point game three Bike Captains will be pretty hard to beat. Especially if you have the Relic Bike. Heck, could make two 3++ bikers if you are so inclined.

3 bike captains is 510 minimum I think so it goes over.

Audustum wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
In a 500 point game three Bike Captains will be pretty hard to beat. Especially if you have the Relic Bike. Heck, could make two 3++ bikers if you are so inclined.

3 bike captains is 510 minimum I think so it goes over.

They're 160 a pop, with hurricane bolters. So that's just wrong.

I'm not really getting all lists that goes for Captain bikers only. Yes they are good, probably the best HQ choice but not spammed alone. It's T'au Commander spam but without the drones, which sucks. Especially since the character rules change.

A few Captains are good but they will be even better working with units of Vertus Praetors in my view. To each his own i guess.

X078 wrote:
I'm not really getting all lists that goes for Captain bikers only. Yes they are good, probably the best HQ choice but not spammed alone. It's T'au Commander spam but without the drones, which sucks. Especially since the character rules change.

A few Captains are good but they will be even better working with units of Vertus Praetors in my view. To each his own i guess.

I agree, that just spamming them will likely not be the best, but, 3 Captains is 1 Supreme Command detachment and leaves a lot of points spare for the rest of your army. Personally, i think i'm going to take a Supreme Command detachment and a Vanguard Detachment (currently costing around 1224 points) which will give me a few options and scary units/models and a big chunk of points for general stuff.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
In a 500 point game three Bike Captains will be pretty hard to beat. Especially if you have the Relic Bike. Heck, could make two 3++ bikers if you are so inclined.

3 bike captains is 510 minimum I think so it goes over.

They're 160 a pop, with hurricane bolters. So that's just wrong.

Well, not as much as you seem to indicate. I forgot the Hurricanes are included in the cost (170 X 3 = 510)

Here’s my idea for a 2k list that I could conceivably build.

Battalion

Shield Captain with Axe 124

Shield Captain on Bike 160

5 Guards with spears 260

5 Guards with spears 260

5 Guards with spears 260

5 Bikers 450

Spearhead

Celestine 250

5 Retributors with heavy bolters 85

5 Retributors with heavy bolters 85

IG Mortar Squad 33

IG Mortar Squad 33

Someone pointed out to me how good retributors are at clearing away screens. They fire at the beginning of the movement phase, so you’re free to move other units into the gap they clear. So I’d be able to use Celestine to get both units to fire if I wanted.

The Mortar squads don’t get a regimental tactic, but that’s no big real really. Their job is to hold objectives that the Custodes will leave behind and pop away at enemy scoring units.

Meanhwhile Celestine and the bikers will be racing forward, serving as a sort of very shiny distraction Carnifex, and my normal Custodes guys will plod across the board. I imagine that the real damage will be done when my guards eventually turn up and get involved.

I’ve tried to avoid going crazy on characters, though one or two more might be handy. I’m not sure the guards are all that great, but they and the special event FW Captain with axe are the only models I have, so if I make this army I’ll be using them. My theory is that they are a great bargain for 52 ppm.