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I agree and the good thing is they don't seem to be involved in the rules anymore now.

: )

According to GW's new FAQ schedule, is the Custodes errata supposed to come out today?

Okay, are FLG guys playtesting the printed codex? Or drafts of the codex? I buy that they playtest printed codexes and participate in the FAQ suggestions, but no way they play with draft rules. The development schedule is way longer than that.

 Primark G wrote:
I agree and the good thing is they don't seem to be involved in the rules anymore now.

: )

There is no indication that their participation has lessened.

They play straight of the RB now.

 Primark G wrote:
They play straight of the RB now.

That doesn't mean they don't playtest and give feedback on Codices. Reecius even wrote an article gushing about being involved in the Guard one I believe.

It is nothing close to the last edition when they were running polls and changing lots of rules they did not like.

 Primark G wrote:
It is nothing close to the last edition when they were running polls and changing lots of rules they did not like.

Ah right, your talking about something completely different... Please know the topic being discussed before interrupting.

As for the actual topic. There is a non 0 chance that stuff they catch gets ignored by GW. Just because your a play-tester doesn't mean they listen to you. And we don't know changes between the beta rules they use and what is actually released.

having been a play tester for other games catching things isn't always easy. sometimes you've got a "beta copy" of the rules with differant wordings and sometimes you catch something but it gets lost in the editing process. it can be a mess

First outing with the bananas & custard boys tomorrow, 1,500 as a target - and everything I have comes to 1,499 so that will do. And I spent time getting the Sisters Rhino ready but on the shelf it stays this time.

Likely facing Death Guard with what could be anything given he has a lot of it.

Saving grace is he is expecting to face Orks or Tyranids...

Anyway, da list (Patrol as I only have two troop units painted so far)

- Valoris
- Shield Captain (sword & board)
- Vexilla of -1 to hit, spear & knife thingy
- 4x custodians, 2 sword & board, 2x spear & knife
- 3x custodians, 1 sword & board, 2x spear & knife
- dreadnaught, assault cannon, CCW & bolter
- Land raider

"da plan" is to see what the board looks like and wing it...

squad of three gets the raider, with the banner and Valoris while we hope it doesn't die turn one, the other squad may go into deep strike and the dreadnaught just wanders about annoying things. All subject to change based on the board and mission on the day.

Trying to keep things simple on their first outing ahead of painting two more spear guys to have three units of three, each two spear & 1 sword & board.

if the enemy goes for a horde not expecting to do too well due to a lack of volume firepower, but if he goes elite it will be a bit more interesting, just need to avoid getting bogged down by zombies

Ordana wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
It is nothing close to the last edition when they were running polls and changing lots of rules they did not like.

Ah right, your talking about something completely different... Please know the topic being discussed before interrupting.

As for the actual topic. There is a non 0 chance that stuff they catch gets ignored by GW. Just because your a play-tester doesn't mean they listen to you. And we don't know changes between the beta rules they use and what is actually released.

FLG is the one who added +1 for the roll going first.

The +1 IMO was really needed tho. If going 1st was stilla 100% chance (besides seize) Custodes would be 4 Drops everytime, maybe less. But i would do 4 drops.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
The +1 IMO was really needed tho. If going 1st was stilla 100% chance (besides seize) Custodes would be 4 Drops everytime, maybe less. But i would do 4 drops.

Im not saying the original 'who goes first' formula with drops was the most ideal, but at least it kindve balanced out the horrific points imbalance between horde models and elite models. 4 point Guardsmen vs 54 point Custodes?

-----
^^^

Good luck leopard, remember to start your vexilla outside the transport to give your LR and contemptor the -1 to hit if the Death Guard get first turn

 Amishprn86 wrote:
The +1 IMO was really needed tho. If going 1st was stilla 100% chance (besides seize) Custodes would be 4 Drops everytime, maybe less. But i would do 4 drops.

At first I didnt like it but combined with no longer being able to re-roll StI it is a good thing IMO.

Good luck leopard!

So I played against some allarus today with what I think we a fairly competitive CSM list. Well. They are pretty good. I wound up pulling out the game but not by a whole lot.

Was a smaller game but seriously. Those allarus are a brick wall. And hit like a ton of bricks. Can’t wait to finish putting together my bikes to have that and mobility!

Thinking of adding a Praetor to my Bikes, anyone else doing this? mostly for turn 1 safety but also to have a character with an Axe.

Sounds wise to me.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Thinking of adding a Praetor to my Bikes, anyone else doing this? mostly for turn 1 safety but also to have a character with an Axe.

That was my initial plan aswell (the Vexilla eventually got cut for points).
I just really really hate that the Terminator version is effectively unarmed. Paying a CP to be able to deepstrike the Power Armor version just feels wrong. (not having deepstrike doesn't matter if the enemy goes first but it would be really good if your going first).

I was just going get the cheaper one and place him in the middle of my bikes and not DS at all. Then just start to Advance him as fast as i can.

I wouldn't say the Allarus Vexilus Praetor is totally unarmed, he still gets his Misericordia which at the end of the day is still S5 AP -2 D1 with 5 attacks and the grenade launcher that's Assault D3 S4 AP -3 D1, an MEQ killer. His primary role is to provide the aura exactly where you need him, so him getting into combat is secondary to me.

So, in an effort to make my Deathwatch at least be mildly viable, I've come up with a plan that involves dropping in a jump pack Captain and Allarus Vexilia, then teleporting six aggressors using the DW relic to their location. Think this will put in work? It's a lot of points, but there should be a pretty big hole in the enemy bubble wrap after it goes off. I don't lose the relic from being mixed Imperium and the two DW Stratagems are kind of meh anyway. Will the added 5++ on the Aggressors be worth it or should I just rely on their native toughness and wounds?

Had a game today versus one of the better players in my area... he ran IG with Custodes and I ran my Smurfs with Custodes. He had the three dawneagles but no Jetbikes for me and I ended up tabling him. Null Zone wrecked him.

Alright so after a couple of game delays I finally was able to get my 2k pure custodes vs a 2k grey knight game in.

Played one of the missions from the chapter approved (mission with getting VPs at the end of your turn for each objective, and for each unit killed), set up was one of the odd ones where we each have a corner square and a 9" empty circle in the middle.

Armies 19 models vs 21 models. Battle of elite armies.

Reposting army list from previous page


Having problems posting pictures so the gallery for them is here https://imgur.com/gallery/aKN5R

Set up.
I won the roll off and got to deploy first which is funny because we both only deployed 3 units on the battlefield and the rest was either embarked or in deepstrike. He was unable to steal so I got first go.


Turn 1 (my turn)

Highlight moment:Blew up dreadknight from first shot of lascannons from land raider, got 3 wounds he only saved 1 and rolled box cars for damage blowing him up.

Moved my custodes into place to hold two objectives and moved landraider to get a better shot at the dreadknight, deep struk my warlord in the middle and the rest of the allarus near his landraider to rip it apart. Nothing else really happened in shooting and failed my charge with allarus. claimed one of the objectives near his side with my dread.

points: 6 vs 0

Turn 1 (greyknight turn)
Got some powers off to buff his guys and deep striked the rest of his army pretty much mirrioring my move with the allarus. Got couple of charges off vs my allarus and thanks to his grenades on his land raider did some wounds on my allarus (we goofed on how wound allocation worked since both of us are both having new edition problems) doing multiple wounds to my allarus but his disembarked squad didn't do so well. My allarus dropped the LR to 2 wounds.

points: 6 vs 2

Turn 2 (my turn)
Used unleash the lions (which even though it would give him a chance to get more points would also make him waste his attacks and shooting at single man units) Disembarked my 4 man squad and valoris towards his termie squad, warlord, and banner carrier, moved 3 man squad toward same unit. Didn't move dread so i could shoot full bs. Did 2 wounds to his dreadnught in shooting phase. In assault charged my dread into his LR finishing it off and all my allarus units moved into his squad of marines cutting them down to only a handful. Wiped out his termie squad and got to lock his banner and warlord in combat from pile in and consolidate moves.

Points: 9 vs 2

Turn 2 (Grey knights)
His dread got a shot off and did a wound to my dread. He did some more powers and did several mortal wounds to my allarus which i lost 3 of (giving him 3 points) and 3 mortal wounds to valoris (i think used his moment shackle and got back 3 wounds). Buffed his warlord with hammerfist?(+1 to wound) and buffed his invul to a 3++. Next to no other shooting. In assault his final marine in combat with my allarus died and he lost his banner carrier to my warlord.

points: 11 vs 5

Turn 3: (my turn)
His warlord was alone at this point so I 1v1 him with a fight club circle having Valoris fight him. My land raider blew up his only other psyker leaving his dreadnought and warlord as final units. Valoris and his warlord went blow for blow but valoris was left with 1 wound and got his warlord to 1 wound. His dread died from allarus + dread charge.

points: 15 vs 5

Turn 3 (grey knight)
His warlord killed valoris.

points: 15 vs 6

Turn 4 (final)
My shield captain killed his warlord for game.

points: 17 vs 6 total wipe

So who won?

BrianDavion wrote:
So who won?

Finished bat rep do to problems with pictures.




Thoughts: The allarus are useful with their shooting and the grenade launchers really up their damage before a charge and "unleash the lions" can be fantastic strat when used right (in this case i used it thinking that 1 allarus would be enough to finish off his land raider and the rest can pile into his marine squad so i wouldn't waste any attacks but then just charged with my dread so it was 2 cp wasted more or less but fun to use). Valoris is useful but I see him as a mix of a shield captain with a super axe and an awesome aura effect, not really a murder machine in his own right but definitely a force multiplier with the re-roll hits and wounds of 1. The land raider was very useful with anti-tank and range weps which custodes really need outside of assault phase.

Ill pitch in with a bat-rep from today. 1k Custodes vs my mates nasty IG infantry list.

Custodes Battaliion:

SC on Jetbike w/ Misericordia
SC on Jetbike

3 Man Custodians (2 Shield, 1 Spear)
3 Man Custodians (2 Shield, 1 Spear)
4 Man Custodians (2 Shield, 2 Spear)

Vex Praetor w/ Misericordia, Vexilla Magnifica


IG: Cadians (Not sure of exact army composition)

14 Characters (Platoon/Company Commanders) all with P-Fists and Plasma pistols

12 Infantry Squads


134 pairs of boots vs my 13.... honestly I went in expecting to get wiped


I deployed everything as far forward as possible, he castled quite far forward around some cover on my left.
-----

T1 Custodes: I went first after he decided not to seize, advanced everything besides jetbikes, who gunned down about 10 Guard Infantry.
T1 IG: He unveiled his Cadian relic. Focussed lasgun fire on my jetbikes out in front, but was not able to do much to them (1 wound to the non-warlord) thanks to the banner. Plasma was out of range.

T2 Custodes: I moved the jetbikes across my line of advance to strike at the right flank of his castle. The 2 smaller Custodian squads moved up for assault, while the banner and larger squad advanced. I got a 11 inch advance on my banner which was crucial in keeping my whole army -1 to hit for next turn. The bike and 1 infantry squad charged in and cut down a heap of guardsmen. I avoided his characters.
T2 IG: He fell back from combat but piled another squad into my warlord jetbike, to tarpit him. He finally decided to focus lasgun fire plus some plasma on my footmen, and managed to kill off a squad, doing damage to another. He fired more plasma at my wounded jetbike SC and took a few wounds off. In his assault phase, he lined up a bunch of characters and attempted to charge. I used the 'Unflinching' stratagem and gunned down the first of the 5 characters lined up to charge me. He decided not to try again.

T3 Custodes: Custodian squads ploughed into his line doing as much damage to the infantry as possible. Lost one to overwatch, and another 1-2 to powerfist characters. The jetbikes and Vexilla guy cleared the infantry tarpit on my warlord and killed off the last remaining characters on his right flank. He had about 30 infantry left by this point, and half of his characters.
T3 IG: Plasma and lasgun fire took more of my Custodians down, I had 4 left. He charged the big squad with a bunch of characters and managed to take them all down besides one spear guy.

T4 Custodes: My jetbikes flew over his castle lines and got into the exposed rear, killing off most of his remaining characters (including warlord) with gunfire and their powerful charges. Vexilla guy ran to the rescue of the lone spear Custodian and they managed to kill off a few more Characters and infantry. One surviving shield Custodian continued to munch through a squad of infantry.

After that devastating assault phase we decided to call it there as he had only 1-2 Company commanders and a few infantry sqauds left, and nothing really that could challenge my Shield Captains.

My thoughts:

- Jetbikes = amazing. I gave both of them extra defensive buffs (Warlord had -1 to hit, other guy had the relic jetbike).

- Opponent made a few errors, first was his target priority - his lasguns were wasted on my jetbike and I managed to escape T1 with almost no damage. By the time he started shooting my squads it was just a bit too late. Second I though he deployed a little too far forward - allowed me to make a few assaults turn 2, and the cover he gained didn't help that much.

-The banner obviously is worth its weight in gold (auramite?), as expected he was reluctant to ever overcharge his plasma, which helped my guys last that little bit longer. He told me he forgot to make more use of the cadian stratagem which gives a +1 to hit for focused fire units, and would have allowed him to avoid the nasty -1.

-Misericordia attacks are extremely useful, particularly when facing down hordes

- Definitely worth mixing in storm shields with your Custodian Guard squads, make them that little bit extra tanky when facing the dangerous stuff, like plasma. I will have to work on my wound allocation though, often he was able to get around by shields by wounding the spear guys with lasgun fire first.

I guess I'll add to the batreps. 2k match. I brought Custodians and Blood Angels, he brought Imperial Guard, Raven Guard and Raptors.

I had 3 Custodian Guard, 1 Allarus Captain, 1 Jetbike Captain, 2 Jetbikes, a BA Captain, a Sanguinary Guard unit, a Sanguinary Ancient and a Venator Tank Destroyer. Jetbike Captain was Warlord with Relic Bike and Radiant Mantle. BA Captain was setup similar to Slamguinus build.

He had 3 infantry squads with Mortars, 2 Primaris Psykers, 3 Manticores, a Company Commander, a RG Captain with Hammer+Shield, 3 scout squads, a 10-model Vanguard Vet with 7 lightning claws and 3 storm shields, Lias Issodon deep striking in a 10 model Sternguard and 2 devastator squads; one with missile Launchers and one with lascannons.

I went first. Used CP to deep strike foot Captain and a Guard Squad around an infantry squad blocking the way to a Manticore. Landed the Blood Angels within charge range of his Vanguard Vets. Moved everyone else up.

BA Captain whiffed his charge despite relic wing. Sanguinary made it in when I burned 2CP for 3D6 charge, but the storm shields ate almost all their damage and I only killed 2 of them. Ancient made his charge and killed last storm shield after burning Honor the Chapter. Custodes failed their deep strike charges. Hurricane Bolters on Bikes crippled the missile launcher Devastators. Tank kills 1 Manticore.

His Vanguard Vets decimated the Sanguinary Guard in return and demolished the Ancient and BA Captain. Manticores killed 2 bikes. Lias revealed himself and killed 2 Guards with lascannon devs. Shield Captain on Foot is hurt by Primaris Psykers Smite.

Bikes and Guard manage to assault and clear much of infantry and mortars. 2nd Manticore is crippled. Lascannons and Sternguard still out of range except to Foot Captain who consolidated into them and locked them in combat

His T2 hurts bad. He used a Stratagem on the Sternguard and they wiped 2 more bikes. Lascannons killed Venator. Manticore killed a Guard. Vanguard Vets engage a Guard Squad and kill it though they're down to just 4 guys now. Foot Captain killed by Primaris Psykers Smite which freed Las and Stern to shoot.

On T3 salvage what I can, Jetbike Captain puts down both his Captain and the last of his Vets. Guard squad ties up Sternguard. Other Guard squad engages the healthy Manticore.

Lias Issodon ends up making 3 5+ saves then wrecking the Guard fighting his Sternguard. We decide the game is basically resolved there as tabling of either side looks highly unlikely and we've reached a maximum score threshold.

Due to the way the mission worked I couldn't score more than 5 primary points due to having too few units left to snag endgame objectives. He had 9 primary by electing continuous scoring. We both maxed tertiary and secondary scores.

Nice to finally see them in action!

Two battles today at 1,500, two victories.

Exact details are not that important, but the first game we faced Death Guard and won more or less right away. Scenario had two objectives with instant win for holding both.

Dropped a unit of four custards via the stratagem 9" from the unit of zombies holding it, made the charge, naturally didn't break the zombies we simply don't roll enough dice - enemy counter charged but only got a daemon prince in, who couldn't take the objective from us - victory top of turn one...


Second game against dark pansies, six objectives, mission to destroy the enemies three, again deep striking put four custards behind the enemy who nailed all three on three turns while we lost two in the same time.


Key in the first game was the ability to hold an objective over and above an enemy unit regardless of numbers unless they have the same rule combined with being tough as old boots against typical anti infantry fire - the storm shields in units helping against enemy anti tank stuff, and a decent leadership meaning one or two casualties don't matter.


Take away lessons:

1. you don't have the numbers to play an attrition game, you will die if you try, so don't hang about - deep striking is worth its weight in gold here.

2. you don't have the force to fight the enemy all over, so pick your fights, remember you are not here to fight the enemy, you are hear to complete a mission - so the only enemy that matters are the enemy on the objectives, strike hard, get in close, use consolidation to seize objectives from under their noses

3. An alpha strike will hurt - so deploy in a defensive style, combine with teleportation of the strike force, deploy a force to provide long ranged fire support - the Vexilia Magnifica for -1 to hit is golden here, the stuff you drop on the table is a distraction on the first turn, position to draw the enemy towards you in order to hit them, make the deep strike unit do the hard work, but help it.


Overall I think the jet bikes will be useful, as they too can grab objectives, but I think they are likely best as golden distraction carnifexes, and actually backed by a terminator unit that can split and be a royal pain to remove they should be golden, but they are not needed - the basic custards are good enough if you have the strategy points to work with.


Also when the enemy does get close keeping Valorian close for the re-rolls is disgusting.


In two games the total casualties were two custard guards in each game, all from the four man strike unit, yet they got the job done.

Played my pure bikes list (shield captain, 6xbike squads, vexila praetor w/-1) against chaos/daemons list. He had a bunch of cultists, daemonettes, and horrors.
I tabled him T4. We had a good discussion afterwards (he’s a good buddy of mine) and care to the conclusion that custodes jetbikes may be the most OP thing in the game currently. T6, 2+/4++ 4 wounds is extremely difficult to kill, and they have fly so they can’t be locked down. Hurricanes at BS2+ chew through hordes. The only counters we identified were 1) death guard/nurgle with ranged mortal wounds and 2) a Guilliman gunline maxing out hellblasters. They hit hard, they’re fast, and extremely difficult to kill.