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2018/05/12 01:52:30
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Cephalobeard wrote: I look forward to rules set in stone, not beta ones, before I make any purchases.
I bet they'll be close, so I went ahead and snagged this guy. I think the double S7 guns is the optimal build if you're shooting at anything with hight T and a 4++ or better (Tesseract Vaults, Mortarion, Magnus, Guilliman, e.t.c.). I'm looking forward to trying this out.
If theyre close they wouldnt be releasing PDFs piecemeal. Also remember, 'soon' in company terms may not be soon in yours. Soon could mean next year.
2018/05/12 02:03:03
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Cephalobeard wrote: I look forward to rules set in stone, not beta ones, before I make any purchases.
I bet they'll be close, so I went ahead and snagged this guy. I think the double S7 guns is the optimal build if you're shooting at anything with hight T and a 4++ or better (Tesseract Vaults, Mortarion, Magnus, Guilliman, e.t.c.). I'm looking forward to trying this out.
If theyre close they wouldnt be releasing PDFs piecemeal. Also remember, 'soon' in company terms may not be soon in yours. Soon could mean next year.
You misunderstand. I meant his beta rules would be close (in content) to his real rules. Meaning I have a fair idea of what to expect.
In terms of proximity, I feel like we might see them in Fires of Cyraxus which rumors say are Q3 this year.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I did some math on this guy's durability. This does NOT include the Vexilla Magnifica.
It would take Space Marines an average of 23 lascannon shots to kill him without re-rolls.
He takes 972 bolters to down in similar conditions.
And about 121 Autocannon shots.
Great model.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/12 02:40:27
2018/05/12 04:01:19
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The Dreadnought, I just... What? Like that is absurdly tanky and has an outrageous damage output for what it costs. It would probably beat Bray'arth Ashmantle in a fist fight with one Cestus equipped (albeit that does make it markedly more expensive and there is no reason why you'd ever do that)
Going with the double Culverins, It costs 310 points. It moves faster, has more effective damage output, and twice the number of wounds of what is supposed to be one the tankiest dreads out there at 90 fewer points. It is 1T lower than Bray'arth, but first impression is that this guy seems busted as all hell.
2018/05/12 05:13:09
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
its a leviathan with a 6+++ and a point of strength. Why is everyone going crazy?
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2018/05/12 05:22:33
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Crazyterran wrote: its a leviathan with a 6+++ and a point of strength. Why is everyone going crazy?
Well, his guns are also 50% and 100% more range than the Leviathan's farthest range gun which is huge because being stuck in mid-range is a problem for standard issue. He's also cheaper points-wise due to being able to avoid mandatory-flamer-syndrome.
2018/05/12 05:48:41
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The Telemon seems good but it does have a couple noticeable restrictions. You can only take one per army, not detachment, and it’s a heavy support slot. Due to Custodes’ inability to fill out a spearhead detachment without also taking two land raiders or grav-carriers, it won’t be something easy for people to soup in without a serious point investment. The cheapest way to get one in your army using a pure Custodes detachment is a 588 point patrol detachment with a shield-captain, custodian guard squad, and double iliastus Telemon. I doubt that that 588 point investment is worth it for most soup armies. Having one Telemon, as good a unit it is just looking at its return to point costs, I actually think it’s decently balanced in the context of a Custodes army considering the above. Custodes also can’t field enough bodies on their own to screen the double iliastus/double arachnus versions effectively.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/12 06:28:54
Praise the Omnissiah. Oh and those banana men too.
2018/05/12 06:17:17
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Crazyterran wrote: its a leviathan with a 6+++ and a point of strength. Why is everyone going crazy?
Well, his guns are also 50% and 100% more range than the Leviathan's farthest range gun which is huge because being stuck in mid-range is a problem for standard issue. He's also cheaper points-wise due to being able to avoid mandatory-flamer-syndrome.
Double Stormcannon Leviathan is the same price (well, one point cheaper) as the heavy six variant. Im pretty aure the grav bombard variant is cheaper than the heavy 10 variant of the Telemon.
Longer range is nice, but it still isnt the terrifying beast that its being made out to be.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2018/05/12 06:18:38
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Crazyterran wrote: its a leviathan with a 6+++ and a point of strength. Why is everyone going crazy?
I think a lot of us don’t like it much but I could see it in your casual meta.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/05/12 06:19:57
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Crazyterran wrote: its a leviathan with a 6+++ and a point of strength. Why is everyone going crazy?
I think a lot of us don’t like it much but I could see it in your casual meta.
My casual meta? Arent you the one claiming your Terminators destroy people? Haha.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2018/05/12 08:17:34
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Uhhh Leviathans are awesome, and this one doesn't need a heavy support relic tax, so it's actually significantly better than a SM one even with the one per army restriction. Oh, and you can teleport it to keep it off the board from alpha strikes unlike a regular Leviathan. Like, I'm not sure what more youre expecting for 310 points.
2018/05/12 08:52:54
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Crazyterran wrote: its a leviathan with a 6+++ and a point of strength. Why is everyone going crazy?
Well, his guns are also 50% and 100% more range than the Leviathan's farthest range gun which is huge because being stuck in mid-range is a problem for standard issue. He's also cheaper points-wise due to being able to avoid mandatory-flamer-syndrome.
Double Stormcannon Leviathan is the same price (well, one point cheaper) as the heavy six variant. Im pretty aure the grav bombard variant is cheaper than the heavy 10 variant of the Telemon.
Longer range is nice, but it still isnt the terrifying beast that its being made out to be.
Your comparisons are off. The Arachnus should be compared to the Storm cannons and the Grav-Flux costs more than a Storm csnnon (but is 1 cheaper than the Arachnus). Note also our Spiculum is free while either loadout of a normal Leviathan requires more points when you add their extra guns (Hunter Killers).
A Leviathan is already a terrying beast and Chaos's are actually used in competitive because they don't pay a Relic tax and have greater than than 24" range. What two traits does this guy also share?
Its not worth going insane over, I havent seen a Leviathan in a top table or even top 8 list. Especially since FW limited the Telemon to 1/army.
Its definitely an excellent heavy support unit for the typically ranged limited Custodes, and it 100% has a place in any pure custodes force.
The Relic tax is not really a tax when you are taking more than one heavy support anyways, so... we can disregard that when comparing it to the Leviathan. Though, at the moment, the only other heavy support Custodes have worth taking is the grav tank. Most pure Marine armies are carrying Heavy Support in spades, in my experience. Not really going to see Leviathans or Telemons in soup lists, imo, since you can get more guns elsewhere.
The Stormcannon is cheaper than the 10 shot Telemon, even adding Hunter Killers, and the Telemon is cheaper when comparing the 6 shot 8/-3/d3 to the Grav Bombard variety.
If you are going to hide the Telemon off the board in reserve, then why does the range on the guns matter? Especially since Alpha Striking got nerfed.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2018/05/12 10:07:56
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Crazyterran wrote: Its not worth going insane over, I havent seen a Leviathan in a top table or even top 8 list. Especially since FW limited the Telemon to 1/army.
Its definitely an excellent heavy support unit for the typically ranged limited Custodes, and it 100% has a place in any pure custodes force.
The Relic tax is not really a tax when you are taking more than one heavy support anyways, so... we can disregard that when comparing it to the Leviathan. Though, at the moment, the only other heavy support Custodes have worth taking is the grav tank. Most pure Marine armies are carrying Heavy Support in spades, in my experience. Not really going to see Leviathans or Telemons in soup lists, imo, since you can get more guns elsewhere.
The Stormcannon is cheaper than the 10 shot Telemon, even adding Hunter Killers, and the Telemon is cheaper when comparing the 6 shot 8/-3/d3 to the Grav Bombard variety.
If you are going to hide the Telemon off the board in reserve, then why does the range on the guns matter? Especially since Alpha Striking got nerfed.
I'm not hiding it off the board, that's a different poster
Hellforged Leviathans absolutely are meta and super strong competitive for the two reasons I listed: range and no relic tax. Contrary to your assertion, there are no high end competitive Space Marine lists I know of with lots of heavy support (in fact, Marines in general are hurting pretty bad, even the famed Guilliman parking lot has not been placing too well overall).
Now I think you're mixing relative and total cost, yeah?
A Relic Leviathan with 2 Storms and 3 Hunter Killers is 327 points by itself. A Custodes Telemon with it's Storm equivalents is 340. That's a 13 point difference just between the models, but the Custodes offensive power is comparatively cheaper because a lot of that 340 comes from defensive advantages the Telemon has (+1" Move, +1W, 6+++).
The Relic tax shoves the cost differential way over though. The cheapest HS I know of is a barebones Devastator squad with no Cherub, which is 65 points. Besides being a garbage unit with that loadout, it makes the real cost of the Relic Leviathan 392 points minimum. For 24" range Vs. 48" and a Spiculum that can fire twice instead of 3 Hunter Killers, plus the defensive advantages. The point difference only goes higher if you try to make your tax unit actually useful.
So heck yeah this guy is great. It's basically a Hellforged Leviathan but for Custodes. It's a shame we're stuck with just one but it's huge we get one!
2018/05/12 10:26:25
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I didnt mean to imply the loyalist variety of Levi was better, just that it is the comparable unit, and its not as brokenly good as some posters were claiming.
I will be picking one up for my Custodes army - i was already leaning towards getting one because it is gorgeous, but now...
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2018/05/12 11:42:50
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Crazyterran wrote: Its not worth going insane over, I havent seen a Leviathan in a top table or even top 8 list. Especially since FW limited the Telemon to 1/army.
Its definitely an excellent heavy support unit for the typically ranged limited Custodes, and it 100% has a place in any pure custodes force.
The Relic tax is not really a tax when you are taking more than one heavy support anyways, so... we can disregard that when comparing it to the Leviathan. Though, at the moment, the only other heavy support Custodes have worth taking is the grav tank. Most pure Marine armies are carrying Heavy Support in spades, in my experience. Not really going to see Leviathans or Telemons in soup lists, imo, since you can get more guns elsewhere.
The Stormcannon is cheaper than the 10 shot Telemon, even adding Hunter Killers, and the Telemon is cheaper when comparing the 6 shot 8/-3/d3 to the Grav Bombard variety.
If you are going to hide the Telemon off the board in reserve, then why does the range on the guns matter? Especially since Alpha Striking got nerfed.
I'm not hiding it off the board, that's a different poster
Hellforged Leviathans absolutely are meta and super strong competitive for the two reasons I listed: range and no relic tax. Contrary to your assertion, there are no high end competitive Space Marine lists I know of with lots of heavy support (in fact, Marines in general are hurting pretty bad, even the famed Guilliman parking lot has not been placing too well overall).
Now I think you're mixing relative and total cost, yeah?
A Relic Leviathan with 2 Storms and 3 Hunter Killers is 327 points by itself. A Custodes Telemon with it's Storm equivalents is 340. That's a 13 point difference just between the models, but the Custodes offensive power is comparatively cheaper because a lot of that 340 comes from defensive advantages the Telemon has (+1" Move, +1W, 6+++).
The Relic tax shoves the cost differential way over though. The cheapest HS I know of is a barebones Devastator squad with no Cherub, which is 65 points. Besides being a garbage unit with that loadout, it makes the real cost of the Relic Leviathan 392 points minimum. For 24" range Vs. 48" and a Spiculum that can fire twice instead of 3 Hunter Killers, plus the defensive advantages. The point difference only goes higher if you try to make your tax unit actually useful.
So heck yeah this guy is great. It's basically a Hellforged Leviathan but for Custodes. It's a shame we're stuck with just one but it's huge we get one!
Chaos Leviathans are meta in an army that is full of them, relying on target overload.
You can't spam Telemons.
The fact that the Telemon is unique cannot be ignored when evaluating it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/12 12:07:02
2018/05/12 12:59:13
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Just got out of the Forge World seminar at Warhammer Fest. First Imperial Armour book is Talons of the Emperor which will include custodes, sisters of silence and gray knights. Will include "updated rules for the entire range" and should be expected around summer. Will do a more in depth write up when I'm not doing it on my phone.
2018/05/12 13:00:19
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Raulengrin wrote: Just got out of the Forge World seminar at Warhammer Fest. First Imperial Armour book is Talons of the Emperor which will include custodes, sisters of silence and gray knights. Will include "updated rules for the entire range" and should be expected around summer. Will do a more in depth write up when I'm not doing it on my phone.
Oh my...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I got my first 2k game yesterday running this list:
I played against a Brigade of Nids and won. The Land Raider (w/ Wardens and Captain inside), three units of Guard and the Vexilla made for a scary Deathstar: he didn't want to shoot at it because his big shooting units would be hitting on 5s and he didn't want to assault it with 15 Custodes protecting the Land Raider, this meant I quite comfortably controlled the center of the board. The bikes and bike Captain went down turn 1 to the combined firepower of most of his army + charging but they did manage to decimate a 30 man gaunt unit and the Captain hammered his Broodlord after being killed.
Also, a big sloppy kiss to whoever suggested making an IG officer my warlord because I spent the first 3 turns with over 10CP despite spending loads of it on stratagems.
I'm quite happy with this list at the moment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/12 13:17:23
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2018/05/12 14:08:06
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I may be going off tangent here, but do you think we will get rules for the Custodes Terminators from 30k?
Id like to see how they would transfer the hilarious torrent rule to 8th with their firepikes. Literally the ultimate horde killer, and if they have a natural 4++ then it will make them probably the best terminator variant in 40k.
40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company
2018/05/12 14:18:14
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Dr. Mills wrote: I may be going off tangent here, but do you think we will get rules for the Custodes Terminators from 30k?
Id like to see how they would transfer the hilarious torrent rule to 8th with their firepikes. Literally the ultimate horde killer, and if they have a natural 4++ then it will make them probably the best terminator variant in 40k.
Literally 2 posts above yours...
FW custodes rules this summer.
FW sells terminators so yes it will include rules for them.
2018/05/12 18:02:42
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
So what would generally be the best all around loadout for a Telemon? I'm leaning towards double Iliastus Accelerator Culverins because it has the ranged STR and AP Custodes desperately needs while also having enough shots to reliably threaten tanks, light vehicles, heavy infantry, and even put a dent in hordes if need be. Double Arachnus Las-Storms seems solid if you really want to go anti-horde but we have hurricane bolters on jetbikes that can handle that and while they seem decent against vehicles I like the STR 8 and AP -3 on the Accelerator Culverins more. If the fists and twin plasma ejectors were about 15-20 pts cheaper each, they might not be a bad choice at least as a charge deterrent.
Deep-striking these guys to protect them from turn 1 shooting also seems like a good strategy if you're not already spending 1 CP to deep strike something else, also gets them within 24" easily so all their guns are in range.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/12 18:08:03
2018/05/13 06:34:34
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Skhmt wrote: Are land raiders worth taking in pure Custodes? They are a transport and provide long range anti-tank, but they're really expensive.
If you don't want be competitive it is kinda ok. But the same points will by you 4 bikes with Bolters or almost 4 with launchers. The bikes are tougher and will delete stuff in melee. The LR has a bit more range. And since the bikes are the best unit in the codex i would use bikes instead of a LR for competitive games. If you can get your hands on a Telemon and your opponent is ok with the Beta rules i would highly recommend using a Telemon with two Iliastus accelerator culverins.
2018/05/13 08:23:43
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Skhmt wrote: Are land raiders worth taking in pure Custodes? They are a transport and provide long range anti-tank, but they're really expensive.
To expensive, to squishy (weird as that sounds for a land raider, no invul hurts) and if it does its job as a transport it will get charged and be unable to fire.
2018/05/13 09:25:15
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I'd like to be as competitive as possible for an all Custodes list.
Which means taking at least 3x3 Custodes Guard squads. Teleporting one is an option, but two is expensive, and three isn't an option.
I went up against a guard army that was deleting 12-15 wounds of Custodes every turn, my walking Guard got ruined by all the battle cannons and earthshakers.
I have bikes and bike captains, but they were all equipped with hurricane bolters, which does pretty much nothing to a Leman Russ. His Tank Commander vaporized my warlord in overwatch. I could take missiles, but the bolters are the main form of anti-infantry.
2018/05/13 11:06:15
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
@Shkmt Land Raider + a Vexilla and Captain isn't so bad; worst case scenario, it'll distract the enemy fire away from your bikes for a turn or two; best case scenario, you'll be popping a tank a turn.
@Jotace 750pts doesn't leave you much choice on what to take: maybe a Bike Captain, one guard squad, a bike squad and an IG detachment? 8CP, some units to hold objectives and you still get your fast moving bikes.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2018/05/13 13:26:33
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Skhmt wrote: I'd like to be as competitive as possible for an all Custodes list.
Which means taking at least 3x3 Custodes Guard squads. Teleporting one is an option, but two is expensive, and three isn't an option.
I went up against a guard army that was deleting 12-15 wounds of Custodes every turn, my walking Guard got ruined by all the battle cannons and earthshakers.
I have bikes and bike captains, but they were all equipped with hurricane bolters, which does pretty much nothing to a Leman Russ. His Tank Commander vaporized my warlord in overwatch. I could take missiles, but the bolters are the main form of anti-infantry.
You need a lot of Salvo Launchers to take out a LR (like 8 orso). I prefer Hurricanes to clear out all the chaff and charge the tanks.
Are you using the -1 to hit banner?
2018/05/13 14:20:02
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Skhmt wrote: I'd like to be as competitive as possible for an all Custodes list.
Which means taking at least 3x3 Custodes Guard squads. Teleporting one is an option, but two is expensive, and three isn't an option.
I went up against a guard army that was deleting 12-15 wounds of Custodes every turn, my walking Guard got ruined by all the battle cannons and earthshakers.
I have bikes and bike captains, but they were all equipped with hurricane bolters, which does pretty much nothing to a Leman Russ. His Tank Commander vaporized my warlord in overwatch. I could take missiles, but the bolters are the main form of anti-infantry.
A few missiles is fine, does a bit of extra damage to ensure a kill on a charge against a hard target. You do want more hurricanes though. Leman russ aren't actually terrible to fight against with bikes as once you touch them, they're mostly useless until you kill them (takes 2 turns on average, but hot dice can 1 round one). It's flyers with high toughness that is the primary problem. Riptides, wave serpants, most flyers, don't die when hit by your very expensive unit, then they fly away and keep shooting.
2018/05/14 03:30:42
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
So far I've had the opposite experience, flyers and such are forced to keep their distance if they don't wanna be charged and shredded. Their weapons slowly chip away at bikes but nothing too dramatic
You can tie up leman russes but getting to them is the issue. Doesn't matter how many Guardsmen I mow down I just can't get to them before all my bikes are battlecannoned to death, banner or no banner.
Thousand Sons 
World Eaters
Imperial Fists 405th Company 
