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For Chaos Space Marines, the only way to figure out how to pull the trigger on your gun a second time is to make loud music with your "Pew Pew" noises. Otherwise you just shoot the bad guys once and say "Yeah that's fine."

 MinscS2 wrote:
Yeah what is actually the fluff-reason for Catachan Tanks being able to outgun all other Tanks, even Cadian Tanks?

In fluff, the catachan have entire armored regiments that focus on having bigger and bigger guns. Part of the catachan motto being that bigger explosions is always better. Traditionally they have Battlecannon Leman Russ with Hellhound tanks and the infamous chainsaw sentinals. The fiction fluff has always had the tanks but the rules have never really encouraged it.

That being said, I think GW heavily underestimated how deeply people see catachan through the lens of the rambo movies and refuse to accept anything that goes against that stereotype.

A bit out of date but that guard conscripts should find the idea of being shot by a comissar more terifying than being massacred by a demon primarch.

My personal favorite: Grot Tanks have a morale value of I believe 5, and with a max unit size of 5 or 6, it's quite feasible for them to fail a morale check.

Luckily, Runtherds equipped with Squig Hounds have a special rule that say any GRETCHIN unit within 6" that fails a morale check "just" loses D3 models from the unit and otherwise, they pass.

Killa Kanz don't have the GRETCHIN keyword, because that would be stupid.

Guess who didn't think of that when it comes to Grot Tanks.

Starts with F, rhymes with Glorgeworld.

Squig Hounds are capable of instantly devouring 3000 pounds of rusty scrap steel at the slightest hint of hesitation from their drivers.

That anyone actually plays these rules as written.

The art of war was revolutionized when one unit of plague marines used the power of Grandfather Nurgle to throw all their grenades at once.

The surviving Ultramarines immediately filed a complaint for this blatant violation of the Codex Astartes. According to eye witnesses, their grenades blotted out the sun.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Yeah what is actually the fluff-reason for Catachan Tanks being able to outgun all other Tanks, even Cadian Tanks?

Catachan's like big boom.

Or is it "Catachan stronk enough to carry more shells/reload faster"?

 ChargerIIC wrote:
That being said, I think GW heavily underestimated how deeply people see catachan through the lens of the rambo movies and refuse to accept anything that goes against that stereotype.

Well Rambo, crossed with Predator, crossed with Alien (because every female Catachan is basically Ripley), crossed with Crocodile Dundee ("That's not a knife!") crossed with every practical effect explosion ever.

I read through the Catachan codex recently (from 3rd I think) and while there is a chance there may have been stuff about tanks on the side, their big premise was sneaking through Death Worlds, ambusing hostiles and dropping hostiles into beautifully crafted traps. Tanks may have come later but they weren't really a focus of the early army concept and while I can see what GW was trying to do, I feel like if they wanted to capture the "they-like-explosions-and-fire-more-than-a-80s-action-movie-directed-by-Michael-Bay" aspect it would have been better to buff the damage rather than the hits. Let the armies that train from birth to do artillery and tank combat be the hyper competent reloaders and make Catachan the army of crazy nutters who'll increase the explosive might of their explosives, and use too much promethium when they burn things causing more damage (say +1 to the standard damage).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
The art of war was revolutionized when one unit of plague marines used the power of Grandfather Nurgle to throw all their grenades at once.

The surviving Ultramarines immediately filed a complaint for this blatant violation of the Codex Astartes. According to eye witnesses, their grenades blotted out the sun.

Meanwhile the Minotaurs were quoted saying they could just enjoy fighting in the shade.

Cheeslord wrote:
I think Inquisitors are just supposed to get hold of some Space Marines or Grey Knights if they want soldiers for "tough jobs"...

Acolytes have had carapace and PA since 2nd, this is the only edition where they don't. Also they can get tempestus hot-shot las but none of the carapace that's usually modeled with it

 Infantryman wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
An Imperial Guard Junior officer can order another unit to run really, really fast. Like, as fast as a tank fast.
He can also order himself to run really, really fast. However, if he's yelling at another unit to run really fast, he can't order himself to do so. [Clearly only capable of holding one thought in his head at a time.]

So, an accurate simulation of Junior Officers, then

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Any Chimera can be a command tank. Salamanders can't, even Salamander command tanks! However, to balance this out, only one Chimera per battle, even an apocalypse battle, can be a command tank at any point, and then only some of the time.

Where is this Chimera Command tank? (Feel you on the Salamander Command Tank, though!)

I wondered about the chimera command tank and looked it up it's a strategem. 1cp means a chimera can issue an order.

RogueApiary wrote:
Within the Deathwatch armory there are Guardian Spears of the Adeptus Custodes, powerful and ancient Leviathan Dreadnaughts, along with tanks and aircraft that saw combat during the Horus Heresy, but not a single man-portable Lascannon.

Likewise, despite having access to the most advanced technology in the Imperium, the Corvus Blackstar somehow has inferior targeting systems to just about every Astartes flier in existence.

Addendum:

-Deathwatch Guardian Spears can fire more advanced ammunition to improve their effects. They have neglected to share these innovations with the Adeptus Custodes.

-Space Marine Veterans have figured out how to combine the effects of Kraken and Vengeance rounds in one weapon. They have neglected to share this innovation with the Deathwatch, who are for still some reason paying an extra 3pts/model for a worse unit.

A cadian artillery park some 3 kilometers away aims better because a single plasma gun scorched the paint on a warlord titan

A rotary artillery caliber titan weapon system with 6 barrels, fires as many times as a single basilisk in one volley

An imperial knight with a storm strike gauntlet can throw a warlord titan a distance further than it can step.

A 200~ ton tank with tread wheels higher than the average human can be pinned in place by a row of rippers

A strategic bomber designed to operate in low orbit can be shot down by a flame thrower

An aircraft can be damaged by weapons fired at/under the ground it is flying over

You can use Mortars as an Anti Air weapon.
You can use basalisks as an anti air weapon. They're suprisingly effective.

 Infantryman wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
An Imperial Guard Junior officer can order another unit to run really, really fast. Like, as fast as a tank fast.
He can also order himself to run really, really fast. However, if he's yelling at another unit to run really fast, he can't order himself to do so. [Clearly only capable of holding one thought in his head at a time.]

So, an accurate simulation of Junior Officers, then

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Any Chimera can be a command tank. Salamanders can't, even Salamander command tanks! However, to balance this out, only one Chimera per battle, even an apocalypse battle, can be a command tank at any point, and then only some of the time.

Where is this Chimera Command tank? (Feel you on the Salamander Command Tank, though!)

I wondered about the chimera command tank and looked it up it's a strategem. 1cp means a chimera can issue an order.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
You can use Mortars as an Anti Air weapon.
You can use basalisks as an anti air weapon. They're suprisingly effective.

I can kind of see using Bassies that way. Set the round to a timed explosion (using MATH!) so it blows like a flakk round at the altitude an aircraft is at. I mean you'd need a lot of them doing it, but I could see the Guard doing something like that in a pinch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Things designed to hit high altitude flyers hit ground targets that merely hover above the ground.

An aasault cannon, with 6 barrels, can fire only 6 times, yet a single barrel boltgun fires twice...

Relics won't even pull out of the motor pool unless a certain unit is going to war. Even if there are hundreds of marines, bikers, and the Chapter Master himself goes.

Surprised this hasn't been posted yet:



Though the FAQ has resolved some of that (the 10 wounds thing).

ChargerIIC wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Yeah what is actually the fluff-reason for Catachan Tanks being able to outgun all other Tanks, even Cadian Tanks?

In fluff, the catachan have entire armored regiments that focus on having bigger and bigger guns. Part of the catachan motto being that bigger explosions is always better. Traditionally they have Battlecannon Leman Russ with Hellhound tanks and the infamous chainsaw sentinals. The fiction fluff has always had the tanks but the rules have never really encouraged it.

That being said, I think GW heavily underestimated how deeply people see catachan through the lens of the rambo movies and refuse to accept anything that goes against that stereotype.

Are you sure? I remember flipping through Codex: Catachans back in 3e and I don't remember seeing much about their tanks being special. As a general thing, nothing lasts long on their planet so there's basically no industry to support tank production.

TarkinLarson wrote:

I wondered about the chimera command tank and looked it up it's a strategem. 1cp means a chimera can issue an order.

Huh. Overlooked that. Still, though, the Command vehicles should definitely have a Chimera series option.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:You can use Mortars as an Anti Air weapon.
You can use basalisks as an anti air weapon. They're suprisingly effective.

Air-burst, I guess. That said I don't think I would have thought to do actually do that in game with a mortar.

Ironhands get to ignore wounds due to bionics...

Admech, which has significantly more bionics, does not.

 Infantryman wrote:
Surprised this hasn't been posted yet:

Spoiler:

Though the FAQ has resolved some of that (the 10 wounds thing).

You do know that everything on that picture is wrong or FAQed?

 Bulldogging wrote:
Ironhands get to ignore wounds due to bionics...

Admech, which has significantly more bionics, does not.

Ad mech bionics apparently comes with a weak refractor field instead.

Ooh, I'll play too!

-A Daemon Prince can usually cause more damage with his bare hands than when he swings a big-ass battle axe at something.

-Mortarion, who in the fluff absolutely despises psykers of any kind, actually is a psyker himself.

-Celestine cries healing tears whenever one of her besties (Geminae) die, but she doesn't bat an eye when other sisters around her are getting slaughtered in droves. Where are those healing tears then?

-A squad of humanity's finest super-human warriors will refuse to exit their burning transport and therefore just willingly die if their transport is surrounded by nothing but Grots.

-Tau robots actually flee the battlefield if a few of them are destroyed. Robots feel fear, obviously. (Seriously, why do Tau Drones have to take Morale tests?)

-All of the famous AM Regiments keep a spare set of Cadian uniforms handy (because too few players have actual non-Cadian models these days).

-A sludge-spurting fire hose is supremely effective at destroying a supersonic aircraft (Foul Blightspawn vs. flyers).

-A cloud of noxious gases from a Blight Hauler somehow makes a Nurgle follower's armor more effective.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Infantryman wrote:
Surprised this hasn't been posted yet:

Spoiler:

Though the FAQ has resolved some of that (the 10 wounds thing).

You do know that everything on that picture is wrong or FAQed?

The first two ones are absolutely correct. In order to shoot at a character, it needs to be closer than another unit - which need not be visible - and it must itself be visible.

-Mortarion, who in the fluff absolutely despises psykers of any kind, actually is a psyker himself.

How is this a rule issue? It's more dramatic irony on part of Nurgle.. Given that yes, he's a psyker because his god granted him the ascension.. And all the fancy powers that he decided he wanted to come with it and morty doesn't get a say. The fluff also mentions he's now even forced to tolerate Sorcerers and Psykers because they are vital to the Chaos engine of war and he's very much not pleased.

-A cloud of noxious gases from a Blight Hauler somehow makes a Nurgle follower's armor more effective.

Hard to see something in a thick, green brackish cloud of gas (trying to hit something that's also green and brackish) means you don't aim as effectively to hit better spots on the armor that would be weaker.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

-Mortarion, who in the fluff absolutely despises psykers of any kind, actually is a psyker himself.

How is this a rule issue? It's more dramatic irony on part of Nurgle.. Given that yes, he's a psyker because his god granted him the ascension.. And all the fancy powers that he decided he wanted to come with it and morty doesn't get a say. The fluff also mentions he's now even forced to tolerate Sorcerers and Psykers because they are vital to the Chaos engine of war and he's very much not pleased.

Yeah, I kind of forgot that part of the fluff. Whoops.

-A cloud of noxious gases from a Blight Hauler somehow makes a Nurgle follower's armor more effective.

Hard to see something in a thick, green brackish cloud of gas (trying to hit something that's also green and brackish) means you don't aim as effectively to hit better spots on the armor that would be weaker.

You see an Alpha Legion terminator. You supercharge your plasma gun. He hides so well you are more likely to blow yourself up and die.

I think it's always and everytime funny when my shadowsword destroys something with a single shot.

You'd think this in bad taste but comedy is pretty much always at the expense of someone else...

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Well Rambo, crossed with Predator, crossed with Alien (because every female Catachan is basically Ripley), crossed with Crocodile Dundee ("That's not a knife!") crossed with every practical effect explosion ever.

Michael Bay agrees with this!

 ZergSmasher wrote:

-Tau robots actually flee the battlefield if a few of them are destroyed. Robots feel fear, obviously. (Seriously, why do Tau Drones have to take Morale tests?)

Because they are programmed to preserve themselves from needless destruction on one hand (the "moral" aspect), while serving as a "meatshield" for more important assets (the blocking shots for suits part)
Its in the fluff, has been from the day tau were first introduced.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Because they are programmed to preserve themselves from needless destruction on one hand (the "moral" aspect), while serving as a "meatshield" for more important assets (the blocking shots for suits part)
Its in the fluff, has been from the day tau were first introduced.

That should be represented as the player choosing whether the unit falls back in self-preservation mode, or is ordered to stay. It's a mode switch that should be 100% controlled, not an emotional reaction to how scary combat is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for other rule stupidity: Valkyrie enters hover mode. Valkyrie moves 20+2D6" to charge an enemy tank, locking it in combat and preventing it from shooting. The two units flail ineffectively at each other, but because there is a helicopter bashing into the turret with its landing gear all the tank crew can do is swing the tank's gun around like a club and hope to bludgeon the Valkyrie to death.