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Nitefly wrote:
This whole CP issue could just be resolved if rather than "3 big knights", a warglaive unit contained a minimum of 2 warglaives.

Whoa, it's almost like that's how the boxes come, too.

From Facebook:



Compatible heads and face plates is nice.

I apologize, after rereading again I see that I WAS wrong
Sorry about that.

Anyway....

Danit wrote:
Hope

https://imgur.com/a/xtlVzNR

This is a good sign.

You know how the preceptor combi-kit is coming out later in the year? I had a thought; what if it’s not just an extra sprue? What if they’ve modified the kit so the legs are poseable, like the Dominatus class?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
You know how the preceptor combi-kit is coming out later in the year? I had a thought; what if it’s not just an extra sprue? What if they’ve modified the kit so the legs are poseable, like the Dominatus class?

No reason to assume this. They're in the exact same pose in the picture. Seems highly unlikely they'd drop the cast to cut a new mold and make it a multi-kit with all the old weapon options still.

I very much doubt it, if that were the case we would already see it with the preview model shown in the article a bit back.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
I apologize, after rereading again I see that I WAS wrong
Sorry about that.

Anyway....

Danit wrote:
Hope

https://imgur.com/a/xtlVzNR

This is a good sign.

Don't get your hopes up on changing such a rule right away.

Best guess is they didn't want an army with 3 detachments each with a knight and 2 amigers to max out on CP and remove any other reasonable list building option for knights.

Danit wrote:
Hope

https://imgur.com/a/xtlVzNR

 Mr_Rose wrote:

ph34r wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Having read the leaked rules on the adeptus astartes facebook, and that exiled in shame lets you -1 from the 2d6 roll to check to see if you apply burdens, it seems like an auto pick negative trait to me.

Essentially makes you LD10. If you pick the +1LD/W trait, makes you LD11. Heh.

I would assume that the burden is worded to make it harder to pass leadership, not easier. You may/probably have it backwards?

No, it’s definitely subtract one from the roll, and you want to roll under to avoid the burden penalty.

Ok, then I definitely don't understand this 'burden'... is it a burden that is actually an advantage? Why would anyone ever not take that? Am I missing something?

 ph34r wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

ph34r wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Having read the leaked rules on the adeptus astartes facebook, and that exiled in shame lets you -1 from the 2d6 roll to check to see if you apply burdens, it seems like an auto pick negative trait to me.

Essentially makes you LD10. If you pick the +1LD/W trait, makes you LD11. Heh.

I would assume that the burden is worded to make it harder to pass leadership, not easier. You may/probably have it backwards?

No, it’s definitely subtract one from the roll, and you want to roll under to avoid the burden penalty.

Ok, then I definitely don't understand this 'burden'... is it a burden that is actually an advantage? Why would anyone ever not take that? Am I missing something?

Yeap. That if you fail that test with that burden, the penalty is much worse than the other burden: no stratagem really hurt for an army thats based on them.

Aah, ok. Thanks for the clarification.

Actually, I had a question about that; there are several stratagems that you can activate at the beginning of the game and remain so until the end, like the ironhail stubbers one.
If you have a Freeblade, who would otherwise be affected by the stratagem, who fails their burden roll and suddenly can’t be affected by stratagems, they would lose access to the enhanced ammo, yes?
Similarly, if you used Exalted Court to give them a Warlord trait, they would no longer be affected by it (for a continuous effect), nor be able to activate an activated effect?

Good question. You could rule that it doesn't apply for that turn... although I would personally play it that you can't do any new strats on it this turn but ones that are already in force continue to work.

It's not clear either way though.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Actually, I had a question about that; there are several stratagems that you can activate at the beginning of the game and remain so until the end, like the ironhail stubbers one.
If you have a Freeblade, who would otherwise be affected by the stratagem, who fails their burden roll and suddenly can’t be affected by stratagems, they would lose access to the enhanced ammo, yes?
Similarly, if you used Exalted Court to give them a Warlord trait, they would no longer be affected by it (for a continuous effect), nor be able to activate an activated effect?

Since the strategem changes these things before the first turn they would get to keep them.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
I apologize, after rereading again I see that I WAS wrong
Sorry about that.

Anyway....

Danit wrote:
Hope

https://imgur.com/a/xtlVzNR

This is a good sign.

Don't get your hopes up on changing such a rule right away.

Best guess is they didn't want an army with 3 detachments each with a knight and 2 amigers to max out on CP and remove any other reasonable list building option for knights.

even with 6 armigers and 3 knights and 12cp this is still not that conpetitive of a list. You are better off with a soup list that contains Guard which is not really hurt by the current restrictions. Furthermore the rule of 3 and point limits basically make this list completely inflexible. You can only field exactly 3 units of Warglaives consisting of 1 model and 3 units of helligers consisting of 1 model and one of your knights needs to be a gallant and no dominus class knights to even fit under 2k. That’s hardly removing any other list building option.

So, from what I see, you can have freeblade armigers? And, seeing they are 0 CP anyway, best way to add armiger to army is adding them as freeblade SH auxiliary units as there is literally no point of doing so in lance until you have 3+ of them?

By the way, mechanicus knights have no keywords in common with mechanicus and thus can't be taken in one detachment with AM, correct?

Fun lore discrepancy isn't it?

"These are Armigers. They're knightly squires!"

"Wow, very cool GW."

"Don't you dare try and use them in your army, though, because if you do you get no command points, despite literally having a Lord leading his squires in your army."

Arguably, the Knight book is the only one doing it right.

You got fewer, more elite models .. get extra command points to represent fewer, but better-trained/more elite guys fighting in an elite and advanced style of warfare.

Field more, less elite models, get fewer command points/cp penalties, as the chaff is less trained and it's harder to whip larger fighting forces into shape for advanced warfare techniques. Instead you make it up with board presence, more bodies and more guns.


Now if we'd just errata all other Codexes to follow that format, we'd be getting somewhere

 Irbis wrote:
So, from what I see, you can have freeblade armigers? And, seeing they are 0 CP anyway, best way to add armiger to army is adding them as freeblade SH auxiliary units as there is literally no point of doing so in lance until you have 3+ of them?

By the way, mechanicus knights have no keywords in common with mechanicus and thus can't be taken in one detachment with AM, correct?

Well 1 of them will get benefits and burdens

That's my shiny new toys on the way!

gungo wrote:
even with 6 armigers and 3 knights and 12cp this is still not that conpetitive of a list. You are better off with a soup list that contains Guard which is not really hurt by the current restrictions. Furthermore the rule of 3 and point limits basically make this list completely inflexible. You can only field exactly 3 units of Warglaives consisting of 1 model and 3 units of helligers consisting of 1 model and one of your knights needs to be a gallant and no dominus class knights to even fit under 2k. That’s hardly removing any other list building option.

Rule of 3 doesn't stop it - points will.

Even then:

Knight
Helverin
Helverin

Knight
Warglaive
Warglaive

IG Battlaion

That would have been 14 CP instead of 8. There are a lot of REALLY powerful stratagems and i'm not sure they should have unfettered access like that.

As I said in an earlier post, relative lack of CPs is offset by the sheer difficulty of facing against Knights.

8th Ed has helped somewhat, but it's still an army comprised entirely of fast moving, very tough units with good firepower. There's units out there that'll prove little more than a speed bump. Dark Eldar will struggle horribly in particular, as they don't get to poison Knights, and their most potent anti-tank options aren't exactly difficult to kill off in the first couple of turns.

Then there's the other thing about Stratagems. My Necrons, because they just don't, don't include any Canoptek units. Nothing against them, just haven't bought any. So there's a slew of Stratagems in the Necron Codex I'm just not gonna use.

With Knights, we can't pack in a great variety of unit types - so we'll likely (I've not bothered reading/viewing the early release stuff) not actually have that many Stratagems open to a given army - so how many CPs will we actually need?

People seem to want to load up on relics and WLT. I don’t really see the need for a paragon fist for example, since you are more likely to just squeeze something to death or kill it with a normal swing of a reaper chainsword. Anything smaller than a tank you might as well stomp.

Well, when some Warlord traits give 4++ vs shooting, 5++ vs melee, and some relics give you a 2+ armor or rerolling wounds, I can see why you'd want to maximize.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
With Knights, we can't pack in a great variety of unit types - so we'll likely (I've not bothered reading/viewing the early release stuff) not actually have that many Stratagems open to a given army - so how many CPs will we actually need?

There are two (IIRC) stratagems that only apply to Armigers and one that only applies to Dominuses; all the others apply to Questoris, Questoris and Dominus, or everyone.
The great filter on stratagems isn’t units, it’s whether you roll Imperialis or Mechanicus; something like fifteen are gated behind either of those choices.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That's my shiny new toys on the way!

I am fast nearing 40 and am very excited having got my notification email about my incoming Knights. The Renegade set is just too good a deal to pass up on.

Have we seen any reviews of the datasheet cards? I just wish these were available for all armies as a useful reference guide.

Hmmmm

Just got an order delayed message from triplehelix games! Saying my knights and codex could be delayed by up to two weeks!

Omg I will not be using them as I know if I wasn't so lazy and did the 30 minute drive o would have them tomorrow!

 _Ness wrote:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2018/06/leaked-imperial-knight-codex-pics.html

Based on this leak I encountered a problem, when I look through the households I can't find the one that doubles your remaining wounds for combat table purposes (House shadow something). I thought that it was in a preview from the web. Can someone please confirm that I am blind and tell me where it is in the codex (if at all).

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2018/06/leaked-imperial-knight-codex-pics.html

Based on this leak I encountered a problem, when I look through the households I can't find the one that doubles your remaining wounds for combat table purposes (House shadow something). I thought that it was in a preview from the web. Can someone please confirm that I am blind and tell me where it is in the codex (if at all).

House Hawkshroud - it's in the first picture in the link.

Ragweek wrote:
Hmmmm

Just got an order delayed message from triplehelix games! Saying my knights and codex could be delayed by up to two weeks!

Omg I will not be using them as I know if I wasn't so lazy and did the 30 minute drive o would have them tomorrow!

They sold their launch allocation on the day advance orders went up, the website and product makes it clear the Renegade set is available on back order.
I spoke to their customer service today and they have another batch on its way to them.