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If Dark Side had been the original offering my bet is people would've considered the alien designs adequate, but boring. Now, in comparison to the Invader aliens, they are the pinnacle of monster design. Genius move!

Is it just me or is CMON getting more and more cynical each campaign?

It's not just me, is it?

I do not think it is just you.

and now a midget mad scientist with a "Frankenstein monster" ok is there any cohesion in the direction?

Some extras for the Soldier pledge

We’ve had not space marines time for some not AdMech





And a Driller Xenos survivor

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

Is captain hook an attempt to shove in a rogue trader character?

Sometimes a Space Pirate is...just a Space Pirate?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I do not think it is just you.

and now a midget mad scientist with a "Frankenstein monster" ok is there any cohesion in the direction?

Now you're just trying too hard - in space, there's plenty of variety.

But apparently people will still scream about it.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yeah, but like Jacob you first must pledge for the Leah core set and then pledge more for the Rachel core set. I guess the expansion is one of the handmaidens..?

I'm guessing that's a handmaid's tale reference but that's on the one main streaming service I've never subscribed to. Regardless, the yeah is loud and clear, lol.

It is not a modern city were a variety of characters live in, it is not a medieval city were a ton of adventurers pass through.

It is a mining colony on a far away planet with no indication of any civilian area and we have a kabuki theatre troupe, orphans, more military and scientists than technicians and miners and a ton of odd characters that are not what a mining outpost that is been set up would require and now a space pirate that looks like captain hook (except he does not have a hook just a cybernetic arm) ectr ectr....

Where is the direction in this one?

Also I agree with AzazelX this looks more and more as marketed to be a "not 40k" than anything else, did they not have faith in them building their own sci fi setting and selling it?

 Azazelx wrote:
Is it just me or is CMON getting more and more cynical each campaign?

It's not just me, is it?

I haven't traditionally followed c'mon campaigns since the original Zombicide; what do you mean? This one feels more grimdark in its setting but I don't have a frame of reference for more than that.

Yeah, I think certain people are just projecting here?

But that's OK, of course.

Not everything will be everyone's cup o' tea, yeah?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
It is not a modern city were a variety of characters live in, it is not a medieval city were a ton of adventurers pass through.

It is a mining colony on a far away planet with no indication of any civilian area and we have a kabuki theatre troupe, orphans, more military and scientists than technicians and miners and a ton of odd characters that are not what a mining outpost that is been set up would require and now a space pirate that looks like captain hook (except he does not have a hook just a cybernetic arm) ectr ectr....

Where is the direction in this one?

Also I agree with AzazelX this looks more and more as marketed to be a "not 40k" than anything else, did they not have faith in them building their own sci fi setting and selling it?

In all fairness, 40k pulls from a lot of different sources. The concept of a militarized force operating in space, with or without heavy armor isn't exactly unique to 40k. The only things that really screams 40k to me (and frankly look out of place) are the "this totally isn't a servo-skull" bits on some of the turrets. Some of the Xenos look vaguely Tyranid... which also means that they look vaguely like they're from the Alien movies... a series of movies about marines in space being sent to check out some mining facilities on other planets?

I would also expect more military/scientists than technicians/miners in a "mining facility has gone dark and we've been sent in to check things out" scenario.

 warboss wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yeah, but like Jacob you first must pledge for the Leah core set and then pledge more for the Rachel core set. I guess the expansion is one of the handmaidens..?

I'm guessing that's a handmaid's tale reference but that's on the one main streaming service I've never subscribed to. Regardless, the yeah is loud and clear, lol.

Nah, just a reference to Rachel having trouble conceiving and giving Jacob her handmaid to pork on the side.

Although, that is almost certainly what gave the book and the TV series their names.

I've backed the core set because it looks rather fun and I don't have any of the earlier versions. The extra characters are a bit all over the place but i think that's good because they are effectively free and will appeal to a wide range of people. When you invite your friends over they are bound to find something they like the look if. Could do with a few more stompy robots though. I live in hope

OK this could get confusing with stretch goals for Civilian, Soldier and now Dark Side - they are all interspersed with each other so at least the overall SG gaps aren't increasing













and all upcoming SGs in money order:

I think the biggest problem people are having with this is that it feels like a clown car pulled up at the colony and dumped its passengers before driving off. If it's a remote mining colony it should really be a few soldiers/security guys, some scientists, engineers and the bulk should be the actual miners themselves. The game should be a Dead Space 1&2 analogue really.

Oh sweet, another Xenoshyft looking alien. Cool.
I do find it a little odd we haven't had a survivor that is clearly a miner. Maybe a dude with some kind of driller exoskeleton, like the miner class in Deep Rock Galactic. That could be cool.

Maybe there will be a mining crew add on or SG? Or maybe all the miners were killed when they dug too deep...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yeah, but like Jacob you first must pledge for the Leah core set and then pledge more for the Rachel core set. I guess the expansion is one of the handmaidens..?

I'm guessing that's a handmaid's tale reference but that's on the one main streaming service I've never subscribed to. Regardless, the yeah is loud and clear, lol.

Nah, just a reference to Rachel having trouble conceiving and giving Jacob her handmaid to pork on the side.

Not nearly enough Old Testament references in the N&R forum. Well done.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think the biggest problem people are having with this is that it feels like a clown car pulled up at the colony and dumped its passengers before driving off. If it's a remote mining colony it should really be a few soldiers/security guys, some scientists, engineers and the bulk should be the actual miners themselves. The game should be a Dead Space 1&2 analogue really.

I think the biggest problem people are having is that this game doesn't match up with the game in their minds. Everyone seems to want a different sci-fi experience with this set and are upset that CMON didn't follow their unique take exactly.




Regarding all the "incongruent" characters around on this colony who is to say that there aren't entertainers dispatched to up morale. We have that now with FoBs in combat zones, so why not in space? And, this remote colony reminds me of an old West-style frontier town rather than an isolated base in deep space. It seems like a spot that is dangerous, on the fringes of civilization/law, with a lot of lucrative opportunities for those willing to risk the dangers. Mining towns in the old West were full of oddball characters, so this colony seems very plausible in the sense that there would be outsiders and fringe types mixed in with military and scientific staff. Oh, and its a fething board game, so the rule of cool, and otherwise fun ideas shouldn't kill immersion. This is a light hearted shoot 'em up collaborative game, it isn't some deeply immersive RPG experience.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Maybe there will be a mining crew add on or SG? Or maybe all the miners were killed when they dug too deep...

I certainly wouldn't complain about having some gritty sci-fi space miners thrown in. If they did a set as a paid add-on, I'd be all over it. Especially if the wound up even remotely similar to the miner designs from Halo 5. I'd love to have those in miniature format.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
I think the biggest problem people are having is that this game doesn't match up with the game in their minds. Everyone seems to want a different sci-fi experience with this set and are upset that CMON didn't follow their unique take exactly.

Yahbut Nemesis pulled in $4M. It's not even part of a franchise (albeit one that may have worn out its viability) and a very different game than Awaken Realm's previous one. Invader's trend is to $3M.

While the main complaints here are about the sculpts of the core game and lack of cohesive theme, Nemesis' "tit window" tempest was as far as the threads got.

Well, yet another KS will be starting soon enough. Then another. Then another. Plenty of competition for my dollar!

The miners are all dead, eaten by the zombies flooding in the mines. It is the administrative and tech support types and the "camp followers" in the topside that are still alive. And the hardcore security force (some of which have been sent to the colony after the incident started). A.k.a. "the survivors".

The mining colony is a civilian colony where the soldiers are sent as security force. This is not a military base. Thus there are all kinds of type of people here, not just soldiers. After the incident started, more soldiers have been sent in (Black squad, Green squad).

 Col Hammer wrote:
The miners are all dead, eaten by the zombies flooding in the mines. It is the administrative and tech support types and the "camp followers" in the topside that are still alive. And the hardcore security force (some of which have been sent to the colony after the incident started). A.k.a. "the survivors".

The mining colony is a civilian colony where the soldiers are sent as security force. This is not a military base. Thus there are all kinds of type of people here, not just soldiers. After the incident started, more soldiers have been sent in (Black squad, Green squad).

Whilst this makes total sense, I am with Barzam if we can get some awesome hypertech mining engineers I would be a happy backer

Oh, and if anyone in a position of authority is reading this, don't forget more stompy robots!

ced1106 wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
I think the biggest problem people are having is that this game doesn't match up with the game in their minds. Everyone seems to want a different sci-fi experience with this set and are upset that CMON didn't follow their unique take exactly.

Yahbut Nemesis pulled in $4M. It's not even part of a franchise (albeit one that may have worn out its viability) and a very different game than Awaken Realm's previous one. Invader's trend is to $3M.

While the main complaints here are about the sculpts of the core game and lack of cohesive theme, Nemesis' "tit window" tempest was as far as the threads got.

Well, yet another KS will be starting soon enough. Then another. Then another. Plenty of competition for my dollar!

I am not following your line of reasoning here. Who cares what Nemesis pulled in dollar-wise? That doesn't impact Invader other than giving people wishing to declare Invader a "failure" a little fuel because it isn't breaking new records in funding. So. What. That has no bearing on the point I was making which is that a lot of people have built up the idea of a sci-fi Zombicide in their heads and nothing CMON puts out will satisfy those people. Look at the posts in this thread. People have very specific interpretations on how CMON could have done this game "right" and anything short of that is "wrong". Ignoring the obvious "donkey-caves and opinions" chestnut, that mindset is so full of narcissism that it has made reading through this thread annoying. Especially when the same arguments crop up page, after page, after page.

So what about those arguments?

I call bogus on the argument that the theme isn't cohesive. It is as cohesive as any other Zombicide campaign I have partaken in (Z1, Z2 and Black Plague). All of those had bizarre characters and shoe-horned celebrity homages. This Zombicide is nothing different.

The complaints with the sculpts also seem like they are coming from a very vocal minority of posters on here hell bent on declaring this game a colossal failure, so while everyone's aesthetic tastes vary, I don't put a lot of stock in their opinions on the matter. Same with the complaints about the art direction. I understand people are unhappy that the art changed, but that alone seems to inform all of the previous complaints. Again, art is subjective just like preferences for miniature designs, but when the same people complaining about the art, and then the models, and then the overall design, well it starts to look like 1) the game isn't for them and 2) the game was NEVER going to be for them. And 3) it looks like their constant presence is just hate-posting as a means of spreading their own disappointment.

And I say that last bit because, despite knowing that CMON campaigns are largely "done" developmentally once they hit Kickstarter, there is still this constant complaining about aspects of the game that won't change. Like the art work. Like the models. Like the theme, mechanics, etc. So, what is the only fall back for those people? To declare the game a failure, to declare it an outlier and "not a true Zombicide" game because of reasons X, Y and Z, and to try and make it look like the campaign is failing.

It isn't.

Even if it "only" pulls in $3 million dollars, that is still a $3 million dollar campaign. If that is what is considered a failure, well, gak, then there haven't been too many successful KS campaigns then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Col Hammer wrote:
The miners are all dead, eaten by the zombies flooding in the mines. It is the administrative and tech support types and the "camp followers" in the topside that are still alive. And the hardcore security force (some of which have been sent to the colony after the incident started). A.k.a. "the survivors".

The mining colony is a civilian colony where the soldiers are sent as security force. This is not a military base. Thus there are all kinds of type of people here, not just soldiers. After the incident started, more soldiers have been sent in (Black squad, Green squad).

That is my take as well. Since there are humanoid Xenos and now lots of non-humanoid ones, I wouldn't be surprised if the humanoid xenos are/were the miners too.

 Flinty wrote:

 Col Hammer wrote:
The miners are all dead, eaten by the zombies flooding in the mines. It is the administrative and tech support types and the "camp followers" in the topside that are still alive. And the hardcore security force (some of which have been sent to the colony after the incident started). A.k.a. "the survivors".

The mining colony is a civilian colony where the soldiers are sent as security force. This is not a military base. Thus there are all kinds of type of people here, not just soldiers. After the incident started, more soldiers have been sent in (Black squad, Green squad).

Whilst this makes total sense, I am with Barzam if we can get some awesome hypertech mining engineers I would be a happy backer

Oh, and if anyone in a position of authority is reading this, don't forget more stompy robots!

Oh, I wouldn't mind at all to get some of the miner types too. Say, a $15 box of 6 miners perhaps?

Most "complainers" raise issue of drastic brand change and hope the complains and the performance of the campaign will give CMON the correct feedback.

It may perform splendid then we as complainers were wrong it may perform bad and CMON decide it is not the art style and backers expectations that were quite obvious before CMON even announced the ZCI, but that sci fi does not sell and not attempt anything else.

Personally I find Andrian Smith art work be too invasive in CMON kickstarters and while the kickstarters CMON did based on his work don't feel out of place since they take his work and put it in a game the other way around taking a game and putting his work on it does not seem to work well, especially if the brand is already established and has created expectations in the consumer base.

Its a feels issue here and this does not feel Zombicide, it feels the others, it feels spacehulk, it feels many things it does not feel Zombicide, every other remark about models, cohesion, why the good starter is the pay extra 90 on top of the original pledge for the one most seem to not like come on top of the basic disappointment.

As many said if the green was the base game and the original pledge was not existing the community reaction would have been better, still looks odd for the brand, but at least it is executed better and of course to stop people wait for retail its a limited run KS exclusive item, yes I can see people feel cynical about it.

Now stompy robots, one (or more) would be nice to have.

 DaveC wrote:
Well I didn't expect that - not just an expansion but a full fledged base game in itself- this got the better xenos designs

I just received the notification for DS, and I was ready to pledge it.

Except, it's not a separate pledge level. WTF?

The monsters look fine, like something I'd be OK to play against, but I'd have to buy Invader to get DS? feth that.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
The complaints with the sculpts also seem like they are coming from a very vocal minority of posters on here hell bent on declaring this game a colossal failure, so while everyone's aesthetic tastes vary, I don't put a lot of stock in their opinions on the matter. Same with the complaints about the art direction. I understand people are unhappy that the art changed, but that alone seems to inform all of the previous complaints. Again, art is subjective just like preferences for miniature designs, but when the same people complaining about the art, and then the models, and then the overall design, well it starts to look like 1) the game isn't for them and 2) the game was NEVER going to be for them. And 3) it looks like their constant presence is just hate-posting as a means of spreading their own disappointment.

I'm a bit late to the party and was wondering how the art changed. Could you go into that for a couple sentences? Was it previewed long ago as something other than what they're showing now? Or did I miss a disconnect between the current figs and art shown?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Most "complainers" raise issue of drastic brand change and hope the complains and the performance of the campaign will give CMON the correct feedback.

Sure, the final take of the campaign will give CMON feedback one way or another. But the endless posting of the same complaints? What does that accomplish besides annoying people here? CMON isn't monitoring this thread, and even if they were, they aren't changing the designs of anything in this campaign. The designs are pretty much set. We all know this.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Personally I find Andrian Smith art work be too invasive

Seems a perfect fit for Zombicide: Invader, then. Sorry I couldn't help grabbing for such low hanging fruit.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Its a feels issue here and this does not feel Zombicide, it feels the others, it feels spacehulk, it feels many things it does not feel Zombicide, every other remark about models, cohesion, why the good starter is the pay extra 90 on top of the original pledge for the one most seem to not like come on top of the basic disappointment.

As many said if the green was the base game and the original pledge was not existing the community reaction would have been better, still looks odd for the brand, but at least it is executed better and of course to stop people wait for retail its a limited run KS exclusive item, yes I can see people feel cynical about it.

All of that is more of the "I want the game my way, and anything different is wrong" type mindset that I referenced earlier. What difference in "execution" with Dark Side versus Invader appeals to you more? Aside from the design of the xenos, they are about the same, no? And you've made it abundantly clear that you don't like the base game's xenos, so is that what you mean by Dark Side being executed better? The xenos are better? Because if so, then that is an aesthetics preference, not an actual change in how the game was presented. Both Invader and Dark Side were executed in the same fashion, with slightly different mechanics (mold vs darkness) and models but otherwise the same end result. If Dark Side was the initial offering instead of Invader you would still have Smith drawing space people with rivets (horror!) and you would still have humans fighting xenos and not zombies (horror!), all things supposedly deal breakers that made this game "not Zombicide" and yet you now insist that the community would have responded better to Dark Side? It seems to me the same problems would have existed if Dark Side was the initial offering that caused people to scoff at Invader. Yes, I'll concede that the much maligned Invader spoiler Abomination wouldn't be a factor, but that Abomination isn't the sole reason for all the angst in this thread, so I remain unconvinced by your assertion.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
The complaints with the sculpts also seem like they are coming from a very vocal minority of posters on here hell bent on declaring this game a colossal failure, so while everyone's aesthetic tastes vary, I don't put a lot of stock in their opinions on the matter. Same with the complaints about the art direction. I understand people are unhappy that the art changed, but that alone seems to inform all of the previous complaints. Again, art is subjective just like preferences for miniature designs, but when the same people complaining about the art, and then the models, and then the overall design, well it starts to look like 1) the game isn't for them and 2) the game was NEVER going to be for them. And 3) it looks like their constant presence is just hate-posting as a means of spreading their own disappointment.

I'm a bit late to the party and was wondering how the art changed. Could you go into that for a couple sentences? Was it previewed long ago as something other than what they're showing now? Or did I miss a disconnect between the current figs and art shown?

The artist behind the previous Zombicide games changed with this edition. Adrian Smith is the new artist, so the aesthetic has changed from a more comic-book style to Smith's decidedly more realistic and "grim dark" style.

DarkTraveler777, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I am in for everything in this kickstarter. Zombicide KS'ers have always been all over the place with the KS exclusive figures, this one is no different. The only complaint I agree with in this entire thread is that the original abomination is just terrible.
Now my only concern is that I've done my math correctly. Has anybody figured out what the total prices if you going in for everything?
Edit: fixed autocorrect issues.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

The artist behind the previous Zombicide games changed with this edition. Adrian Smith is the new artist, so the aesthetic has changed from a more comic-book style to Smith's decidedly more realistic and "grim dark" style.

Ok, thanks. I was a big fan of Adrian Smith when he did the old Leviathan minis game but inexplicably not when he switched to GW/40k back in 3rd edition. I'm ambivalent to what I've seen in this campaign of his art. Like I said, I haven't followed Zombicide too closely but my recollection is that this is the first true future scifi version (the others being current and medieval zombie genres instead). As long as its not a bait and switch after funding, I'm fine with a change in artist/asthetics personally.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Seems a perfect fit for Zombicide: Invader, then. Sorry I couldn't help grabbing for such low hanging fruit.

You must be thrilled with the Tanks. Their fruit can hang no lower.



More seriously, I wonder if they're keeping the Dark Side from being a pledge level to avoid having backers see the numbers. How disheartening must it be to see your limited run expansion outperform the base game you selected as your final product? But to have your customers know, not just suspect, but know that you made such a dramatic error? That would be disastrous. I'd expect at best for there to be a discounted all in pledge added later on. If the demand is really that much higher for Dark Side than Invader- it would take tremendous courage to admit it and change your product.