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At least with AM would be nice - there have been stories of both AM hiring ork mercenaries in exchange for weapons and/or scrap, as well as AM turning against the imperium and fighting for the orks (like von Strab and his troops during the third war for Armageddon).

There should be a limitation on that like for GSC though - the last thing the game needs is imperium soup allying in boyz.

 lolman1c wrote:
I think one of the traits should let the Merc Orks Ally with any faction (apart from Tyranids and Necrons maybe).

God no

There are lots of examples of Orks working as mercenaries for other armies, and of other armies working as mercenaries* for Orks. Also, there are loads of examples of humans captured by Orks going native/getting Stockholm syndrome/whatever and adopting Ork culture. Based on some fluff I think there's even a possibility that big Waaaghs have a psychic effect on some humans that makes them go all Orky.
*Auxiliaries might be a better term.

I think it would be cool if GW released a book with some guidelines for things like this. I actually think it would be cool if they released a book for allying in all sorts of mercenaries (like Kroot). However, it would probably be best if it was more of a Narrative and Open Play book so that it didn't cause all sorts of weird problems in Matched Play.

I think that Orks don't actually need to be run as a soup army to be competitive. Orks come in such a wide variety that I think they should be able to fulfill every battlefield role quite well without having to bring in other armies. We should theoretically have quite a few viable builds. It isn't working out that way right now, but hopefully once the codex comes out that will change.

No allied for orks please. Screw soup lists, don't let orks be part of other factions' armies.

We already have tons of units, we don't need allies, but our stuff to be at least viable. Instead of allies I'd like a few more new things: a battle tank and a couple of characters, we don't have a named warboss other than the legend ghaz, no named psykers or big meks as well.

 Blackie wrote:
No allied for orks please. Screw soup lists, don't let orks be part of other factions' armies.

We already have tons of units, we don't need allies, but our stuff to be at least viable. Instead of allies I'd like a few more new things: a battle tank and a couple of characters, we don't have a named warboss other than the legend ghaz, no named psykers or big meks as well.

I'd prefer, in general, more generics (and more customization for generics) than more unique heroes.

Da only ally an Ork has iz wiv his Choppa an his Shoota!

Orks are too cool to be taken as allies to me, they believe that everything the other factions take or use is just a weaker version of their own stuff so except for slave labour/alliances out of convenience/humour I don't think many Orks consider allying with anything, including each other.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
No allied for orks please. Screw soup lists, don't let orks be part of other factions' armies.

We already have tons of units, we don't need allies, but our stuff to be at least viable. Instead of allies I'd like a few more new things: a battle tank and a couple of characters, we don't have a named warboss other than the legend ghaz, no named psykers or big meks as well.

I'd prefer, in general, more generics (and more customization for generics) than more unique heroes.

But we currently have all sort of generics. General, medic, mechanic and psyker, what else do we need? Some of them can have multiple options like the bike or the megarmor. Maybe we just lack generic characters on jump packs, and customization for the psyker as I'd really love a biker weirdboy. Unfortunately GW is going towards the opposite direction with their stupid "no official model no rules".

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Da only ally an Ork has iz wiv his Choppa an his Shoota!

Orks are too cool to be taken as allies to me, they believe that everything the other factions take or use is just a weaker version of their own stuff so except for slave labour/alliances out of convenience/humour I don't think many Orks consider allying with anything, including each other.

Blood Axes and Freebootaz have been allying with anyone who pays since Rogue Trader. It's an established part of the background and had rules in both 1st and 2nd edition.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean, they got an extra attack at base and I'm pretty sure they have a permanent S4 (which to be fair they should've had last edition). You make Trukks an appropriate price and there really would be much to do against them.

But he really loves krumpin stuff.

 Blackie wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
No allied for orks please. Screw soup lists, don't let orks be part of other factions' armies.

We already have tons of units, we don't need allies, but our stuff to be at least viable. Instead of allies I'd like a few more new things: a battle tank and a couple of characters, we don't have a named warboss other than the legend ghaz, no named psykers or big meks as well.

I'd prefer, in general, more generics (and more customization for generics) than more unique heroes.

But we currently have all sort of generics. General, medic, mechanic and psyker, what else do we need? Some of them can have multiple options like the bike or the megarmor. Maybe we just lack generic characters on jump packs, and customization for the psyker as I'd really love a biker weirdboy. Unfortunately GW is going towards the opposite direction with their stupid "no official model no rules".

I'd like more generic HQs, but mostly for fluff reasons. The Warboss we have now is good, but it's probably representing an "average" warboss when there is a huge variety in terms of size and strength. He's probably bigger and meaner than the warboss that would be leading a small warband, and smaller than a warlord that would be leading a mighty Waaaagh! (in the fluff those guys are often the size of dreadnoughts). I definitely don't think it's necessary to get a variety of different sized Warboss units, but it would be cool.

If they stick a 0-1 per detachment rule on Warbosses it would be nice to get a smaller boss that has no such restriction.

I'd like to see something like this:
Warboss: More or less what we have now
Warlord: A little bigger, and his aura abilities work on any friendly Ork unit regardless of clan. (This could be done with a stratagem, like turning a Captain into a Chapter Master, it doesn't necessarily need a new model.)
Bully Boyz: A slightly tougher Nob/Meganob that comes in units of 1-3 and is an HQ. Maybe give them the Breakin' Headz ability? Not that we really need more morale mitigation.
Warphead: An even more juiced-up Weirdboy. Like the Warlord, this could be done with a Stratagem instead of requiring a new model.
Bad Doc: An HQ painboy for leading Cybork Slashas, Dread Mobz and the like.
(Also, Forge World should make the Meka-Dread an HQ again.)

Really none of these would require new models, depending on how strict GW is going to be about kitbashing or allowing for things that aren't currently spelled out in the current box. They've been getting stricter, but they did do the Grandmaster Dreadknight and they have a unit entry for the Tau Commander in XV8, so I have a small amount of hope. While I'm excited for the Ork Codex I'm more worried about them drastically cutting our options than giving us bad rules.

Again, I don't think it's necessary, I just think it would be cool.

I stole the name "Bully Boyz" from the Waaagh! Ghazzy book. Orks used to have a tough Nob as a 'Lieutenant'-type of HQ option back in the 3rd Edition rulebook, but they dropped it when the Codex came out. I can't remember what this HQ option was called. If I remember correctly every army in the back of the 3rd Ed. rulebook had an HQ that was just a little better than whatever the equivalent of a Veteran Sergeant was in that army, but they all got dropped when their codex came out. If they brought back these types of HQ choices I wouldn't be annoyed by them slapping 0-1 limitations on a bunch of HQ options (which might not happen, beyond Tau it's just a rumor).

 docdoom77 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Da only ally an Ork has iz wiv his Choppa an his Shoota!

Orks are too cool to be taken as allies to me, they believe that everything the other factions take or use is just a weaker version of their own stuff so except for slave labour/alliances out of convenience/humour I don't think many Orks consider allying with anything, including each other.

Blood Axes and Freebootaz have been allying with anyone who pays since Rogue Trader. It's an established part of the background and had rules in both 1st and 2nd edition.

1st and 2nd edition background and rules doesn't really apply now, though I agree both have been known to ally with others and both are considered un-Orky and weird by other orks.

Warboss is really not that great when it comes to damage dealing. I feel really underwhelmed every time my biker bos gets into combat. 4 attacks are just too low for something that does no real damage outside mellee. But i guess, he's not too expensive but lack of invul and 4+ armor does not compensate for an extra toughness and wound compared to marine hq. Boss also hits less often due to no re-rolls.

If you can, always take Ghaz. He's a whole different story. He's like 4 times killier than a warboss and infinitely more durable cause he actually has 4++ and 2+ armor without loosing speed. And he buffs your whole army with an extra attack. He's just great. Biker boss is surely faster but does too little to actually want him in the thick of it. Expect 2-4 wounds to a rhino. Oh, and he eats overwatch, so that more boyz can be left. So, he might still have some use, i guess.

Uhhhh....lets wait for a codex before people start yelling *NERF ORKS* but I think their morale system needs to be addressed.

Only abusive thing I see is da-jumping tons of boys, but otherwise, outside of that, what do they really have? So no, don't nerf.

 koooaei wrote:
Warboss is really not that great when it comes to damage dealing. I feel really underwhelmed every time my biker bos gets into combat. 4 attacks are just too low for something that does no real damage outside mellee. But i guess, he's not too expensive but lack of invul and 4+ armor does not compensate for an extra toughness and wound compared to marine hq. Boss also hits less often due to no re-rolls.

If you can, always take Ghaz. He's a whole different story. He's like 4 times killier than a warboss and infinitely more durable cause he actually has 4++ and 2+ armor without loosing speed. And he buffs your whole army with an extra attack. He's just great. Biker boss is surely faster but does too little to actually want him in the thick of it. Expect 2-4 wounds to a rhino. Oh, and he eats overwatch, so that more boyz can be left. So, he might still have some use, i guess.

I prefer a generic warboss over ghaz who is 50ish points overcosted IMHO. Sure ghaz is capable of more damage but it's slow and with the same cost you can have a warboss on a bike and two weirdboyz.

If you don't mind FW there's zhadsnarks who is very killy and mobile for just 122 points with his 5 attacks hitting on 2s with AP-4 and the possiblity of causing mortal wounds. His only downsize is his ability to mitigate morale only to evil sunz units but wihout the codex it doesn't really matter what clan you chose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Uhhhh....lets wait for a codex before people start yelling *NERF ORKS* but I think their morale system needs to be addressed.

Only abusive thing I see is da-jumping tons of boys, but otherwise, outside of that, what do they really have? So no, don't nerf.

It would be something really abusive if there was no limitations about the number of times you can cast the same psychic power. If an ork player was able to teleport countless mobs of boyz per turn, then yes, something should be nerfed, but teleporting 30-40 boyz per turn is certainly a powerful combo, but not something that breaks the game.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Uhhhh....lets wait for a codex before people start yelling *NERF ORKS* but I think their morale system needs to be addressed.

Only abusive thing I see is da-jumping tons of boys, but otherwise, outside of that, what do they really have? So no, don't nerf.

What's wrong with the Morale system? I never have anything run off, it's been working fine for me!

 Jidmah wrote:

The Space Marine's way to handle hordes simply is not combat. There are tons of units that do an incredible job at wiping out boyz at rapid fire range, so you're basically just complaining about not being able to do it they way you want.

Amen, When an ork player says he wants to have a shooty army he's told to shut up and that its not fluffy... But then the rest of the game is supposed to be as choppy as orks in CC?

Id be very happy if we all had the options to play our games how we wanted.

Our thread got mentioned by Mordian Glory I think.... I hope he understands that this was actually made because i think it's stupid people want to nerf Ork Boyz...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

The Space Marine's way to handle hordes simply is not combat. There are tons of units that do an incredible job at wiping out boyz at rapid fire range, so you're basically just complaining about not being able to do it they way you want.

Amen, When an ork player says he wants to have a shooty army he's told to shut up and that its not fluffy... But then the rest of the game is supposed to be as choppy as orks in CC?

Id be very happy if we all had the options to play our games how we wanted.

"When we're told to shut up because it's not fluffy....". Dude, tell them to shut up because they obviously don't understand Ork Lore and Fluff. Great thing about Orks is we have been around for nearly 40 years now! Even in the modern lore you can get an Ork to do anything (he can be anything from a pro ww2 fighter pilot or bomber to a suicidal Ork with a hammer that's just a bomb). Orks have entire armies of lootas... or entire armies of bikers.... Orks are anything they want to be! One ork once blew up an entire planet with a moon or something.... Pretty sure in his head he didn't go "maybe it's unfluffy if I don't charge in first".

When did that happen?

 warhead01 wrote:
When did that happen?

Big Mek Fragrak da Planetsmasha

 lolman1c wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
When did that happen?

Big Mek Fragrak da Planetsmasha

Sorry, I meant when did Mordian Glory talk about Ork nerfing?

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
When did that happen?

Big Mek Fragrak da Planetsmasha

Sorry, I meant when did Mordian Glory talk about Ork nerfing?

In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPoQxnBtMkc&t=2s

he talks about how angry he is people are even considering nerfing Orks. Right at the end of the video

 davou wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

The Space Marine's way to handle hordes simply is not combat. There are tons of units that do an incredible job at wiping out boyz at rapid fire range, so you're basically just complaining about not being able to do it they way you want.

Amen, When an ork player says he wants to have a shooty army he's told to shut up and that its not fluffy... But then the rest of the game is supposed to be as choppy as orks in CC?

Id be very happy if we all had the options to play our games how we wanted.

Where in this thread has anyone told Ork players to shut up and that shooty Orks aren't fluffy? As the one the original comment you quoted was aimed at I don't think it's particularly fair to imply that I wouldn't accept Ork shooting units being good when I've said nothing of the sort.

The GW facebook page is also full of people whining about ld30 mobs not taking casualties from morale. So he might not be specifically calling out this thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Where in this thread has anyone told Ork players to shut up and that shooty Orks aren't fluffy? As the one the original comment you quoted was aimed at I don't think it's particularly fair to imply that I wouldn't accept Ork shooting units being good when I've said nothing of the sort.

I don't think that comment is aimed at you at all, or this thread in specific.

Have look at this thread, for example: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/752841.page

Most people that haven't been around for 5th or earlier editions are fully convinced that ork shooting shouldn't do as much as scratch the paint of power armor.

Those hoping for an ork nerf I am sure you will get it. My guess is that GW is going to double the cost of everything in the ork book, and give us a special rule where on a 1 orks lose command points instead of gaining them back like everyone else.

Of course Orks should be nerfed.

They aren't a real faction, they are the faction for kids or funny guys that are a joy to play and don't care if they win or lose. Orks are the faction you use to teach a newy player how is the feel of the game.

They should be designed to lose, but to lose in a fun way, with a ton of crazy rules and a crap-ton of bodies so the game doesn't ends in the first or second round and his opponent feels it has accomplished something because he killed 100 ork models.

I do not understand this topic... ork aren't a top tier army... far from that... why nerf us when we bring so much joy on your games

 Galas wrote:
Of course Orks should be nerfed.

They aren't a real faction, they are the faction for kids or funny guys that are a joy to play and don't care if they win or lose. Orks are the faction you use to teach a newy player how is the feel of the game.

They should be designed to lose, but to lose in a fun way, with a ton of crazy rules and a crap-ton of bodies so the game doesn't ends in the first or second round and his opponent feels it has accomplished something because he killed 100 ork models.

Even if you're joking; I'd hit you right in the gob if I could.

Isn’t ... like the whole setting supposed to be one giant satirical joke? So ... everyone should be bad?

 Geemoney wrote:
Those hoping for an ork nerf I am sure you will get it. My guess is that GW is going to double the cost of everything in the ork book, and give us a special rule where on a 1 orks lose command points instead of gaining them back like everyone else.

HAHAHAHA... Don't you even dare joke about that! You'll give them ideas!

 Galas wrote:
Of course Orks should be nerfed.

They aren't a real faction, they are the faction for kids or funny guys that are a joy to play and don't care if they win or lose. Orks are the faction you use to teach a newy player how is the feel of the game.

They should be designed to lose, but to lose in a fun way, with a ton of crazy rules and a crap-ton of bodies so the game doesn't ends in the first or second round and his opponent feels it has accomplished something because he killed 100 ork models.

I completely disagree. If that is/was true I wish they had put that on the boxes and blister packs so I wouldn't have bothered collecting 24,000 points. Makes me feel I have wasted my time.
It's insulting if that's the case.