Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**Biasn**

So after seeing the review video of CA that seems to be it. No datasheets , no rule changes just points for necrons. Annihilator and lots of vehicles will be gak for another year it seems.

**Darsath**

Well, it seems my information from July has remain accurate. It's a shame too, since there won't be any opportunities for changes to come for a long time either.

**vipoid**

sieGermans wrote:
Anyone dissatisfied with these changes should quit the faction now.

I guess I'll be quitting then.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Biasn wrote:
So after seeing the review video of CA that seems to be it. No datasheets , no rule changes just points for necrons. Annihilator and lots of vehicles will be gak for another year it seems.

I'm still not sure those reviews show everything. In the rumors thread there was a photo of a datasheets page on intercessors, fiends and horrors, and I don't recall the reviews showing those. It could be that GW told them not to reveal everything.

**Odrankt**

vipoid wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
Anyone dissatisfied with these changes should quit the faction now.

I guess I'll be quitting then.

Might as well if you don't think these point decreases helped us.

**IanVanCheese**

The points changes aren't the only changes here. There are so many changes to how the game plays that invalidate the current meta.

I think we're in a much better place than we used to be.

**Biasn**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Biasn wrote:
So after seeing the review video of CA that seems to be it. No datasheets , no rule changes just points for necrons. Annihilator and lots of vehicles will be gak for another year it seems.

I'm still not sure those reviews show everything. In the rumors thread there was a photo of a datasheets page on intercessors, fiends and horrors, and I don't recall the reviews showing those. It could be that GW told them not to reveal everything.

But the video did show the datasheets? Its horrors , rines , fleshhounds and bloodcrushers. Not more not less.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Biasn wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Biasn wrote:
So after seeing the review video of CA that seems to be it. No datasheets , no rule changes just points for necrons. Annihilator and lots of vehicles will be gak for another year it seems.

I'm still not sure those reviews show everything. In the rumors thread there was a photo of a datasheets page on intercessors, fiends and horrors, and I don't recall the reviews showing those. It could be that GW told them not to reveal everything.

But the video did show the datasheets? Its horrors , rines , fleshhounds and bloodcrushers. Not more not less.

Did it? Must have missed it, or saw a different one. Well that's unfortunate then.

**Biasn**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Biasn wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Biasn wrote:
So after seeing the review video of CA that seems to be it. No datasheets , no rule changes just points for necrons. Annihilator and lots of vehicles will be gak for another year it seems.

I'm still not sure those reviews show everything. In the rumors thread there was a photo of a datasheets page on intercessors, fiends and horrors, and I don't recall the reviews showing those. It could be that GW told them not to reveal everything.

But the video did show the datasheets? Its horrors , rines , fleshhounds and bloodcrushers. Not more not less.

Did it? Must have missed it, or saw a different one. Well that's unfortunate then.

WinterSEO or sth like that did the review. Yeah its unfortunate and since overall vehicles got alot of point drops across factions we might even see more of them...

**vipoid**

Odrankt wrote:
vipoid wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
Anyone dissatisfied with these changes should quit the faction now.

I guess I'll be quitting then.

Might as well if you don't think these point decreases helped us.

I'm sure they'll help to some degree, but there are too many core issues that remain entirely ignored.

**skoffs**

vipoid wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
vipoid wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
Anyone dissatisfied with these changes should quit the faction now.

I guess I'll be quitting then.

Might as well if you don't think these point decreases helped us.

I'm sure they'll help to some degree, but there are too many core issues that remain entirely ignored.

Yeah, I might give them a try or two with the new points, but I don't have high hopes.
I have a feeling I'll be shelving them in favor of Sisters once they release.

**Sasori**

vipoid wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
vipoid wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
Anyone dissatisfied with these changes should quit the faction now.

I guess I'll be quitting then.

Might as well if you don't think these point decreases helped us.

I'm sure they'll help to some degree, but there are too many core issues that remain entirely ignored.

I'm willing to give them a shot. I feel like The HGC Stalker and DD arks going down is pretty big, and may be enough to swing us up quite a bit. Throw in the reduction to our troops and I feel like we are in a decent spot. It doesn't addresses some of our core issues with stratagems or CP, but I think it's enough to pull us out of the dumpster tier at least.

I know that many other armies got points reductions as well, so we will have to see how things play out on the Tabletop.

**IanVanCheese**

I think you're going to see a lot of lists with triple DDA and at least one Stalker...maybe even more stalkers. Flooding the field with Quantum Shielding protected anti-armour units will upset a lot of armies out there.

I don't think we're top of the pile, but this update throws us into the middle of the pack now at least.

With the new missions seemingly putting a greater onus on board control, I'm wondering what the top Dynasties are going to be? I think Sautekh and Nephrekh (which was already great) have gained a big boost here. Triple DDA zooming around the board making the most of their gauss flayer arrays could be a valid tactic.

**vipoid**

Sasori wrote:
I'm willing to give them a shot. I feel like The HGC Stalker and DD arks going down is pretty big, and may be enough to swing us up quite a bit.

Maybe, but as someone who can't stand the Doomsday Ark, you'll forgive me if it getting a points reduction doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm.

In fact, that's kind of the issue for me. I don't mind playing relatively weak armies, but the problem with Necrons is that I just find them boring at the moment. There's something about their current design that just saps away all my enthusiasm, and I'm afraid no amount of point reductions is likely to change that.

**vict0988**

slave.entity wrote:
p5freak wrote:
Looks like you didnt notice that 8th is all about spam and hordes. 100+ pink horrors, 100+ cultists, 100+ gaunts... Elite armys are in a bad spot.

Especially with battalions granting 5 CP. Every time I build a soup list with a patrol or spearhead or something I always stop and think to myself, "you know what, if I just rearranged some stuff here and there I could fit another battalion into this..."

Factions with access to efficient troops are king. Welcome to 8th Edition Battalionhammer.

What? But the change was intended to give more CP to elite armies? We are benefitting from this, I swear. Double Battalion Crons got a lot better though, Imotekh, Zahndrekh, Obyron, Cryptek and 6 units of 10 Tesla Immortals got 200 pts cheaper. A more barebones version with 3x10 Immortals and 3x5 Immortals, double Overlord, Lord and Cryptek got 100 pts cheaper. The 2pt drop on Immortals is going to be felt in almost every list and the few lists that don't run Immortals got a similar drop on DDAs and Tomb Blades.

I lost an Eternal War game trying out a triple Vault list with a squad of 6 Wraiths against Drukhari for what is probably the first and last time. They just don't have the firepower to deal with mechanised lists, Nihilakh Wraiths were terrible, but part of that was playing a game with no objectives so no 2+ invul. I did randomly generate my powers so I guess doing gak in the Movement phase is on me, but when you lose a 700 pts a turn it's hard to keep up.

Spoiler:

I won a game against Tau using the new pts costs using 3 Unique HQs in a double Battalion with 3 DDAs and a Triarch Stalker, please let me know if I've got any of the pt values wrong since the list is hand-made, the list would have been 350 more pts before CA2018 and I think it's going to be the new hotness. I seized the initiative and destroyed half of my opponent's army. In the end I lost a single unit of Immortals and wiped out my opponent turn 3. 4 full squads of MWBD Immortals is a ton of shooting, a ton of shooting that usually meant you had little to no AV, but with the pts changes I had a very decent amount of AV in addition to an absurd amount of anti infantry. It'll struggle against Kabal Drukhari and Alaitoc (if it's true that Alaitoc isn't getting changed) but should be strong against most other lists including Knights.

**Avatar 720**

As much as I like DDAs getting cheaper (even if their issue was unreliable damage; it's not like ~190 was a terrible price to begin with) I don't like the prospect of buying, building, and housing 3 of the bastards. I was just about coming to terms with 2. Maybe I can sub one of them for 3 Heavy Destroyers or something just so I don't have to buy a third carry case.

That said, if my Stalker is coming out of storage, it might come to a third case anyway...

**nintura**

vipoid wrote:
Sasori wrote:
I'm willing to give them a shot. I feel like The HGC Stalker and DD arks going down is pretty big, and may be enough to swing us up quite a bit.

Maybe, but as someone who can't stand the Doomsday Ark, you'll forgive me if it getting a points reduction doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm.

In fact, that's kind of the issue for me. I don't mind playing relatively weak armies, but the problem with Necrons is that I just find them boring at the moment. There's something about their current design that just saps away all my enthusiasm, and I'm afraid no amount of point reductions is likely to change that.

That's easy. They are a point and click army. They have no depth, no range of interests. They are very flat.

**vict0988**

vipoid wrote:
Sasori wrote:
I'm willing to give them a shot. I feel like The HGC Stalker and DD arks going down is pretty big, and may be enough to swing us up quite a bit.

Maybe, but as someone who can't stand the Doomsday Ark, you'll forgive me if it getting a points reduction doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm.

In fact, that's kind of the issue for me. I don't mind playing relatively weak armies, but the problem with Necrons is that I just find them boring at the moment. There's something about their current design that just saps away all my enthusiasm, and I'm afraid no amount of point reductions is likely to change that.

IMO the current Codex is the one with the worst design in the history of Necron codices, the only thing keeping me on board is how well 8th has been designed (even if the rules aren't perfect, the design philosophy is great).

**Cynista**

Having had 24 hours to think about the changes and list build my thoughts are that in a vacuum our CA reductions are pretty good, if not stellar. On average we can fit in an extra squad or vehicle per list. However taking into consideration the vast reductions almost every other faction has received, we are still bottom tier.

The point drops on FW units, Wraiths, Stalker and Immortals are all welcome but why didn't they drop the points of more units that nobody takes? Wasn't that the entire point?

Spyders, Destroyer Lords and Flayed Ones all suck EVEN MORE in comparison than they did before. It's really sad.

**vipoid**

nintura wrote:
That's easy. They are a point and click army. They have no depth, no range of interests. They are very flat.

Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate, sadly.

vict0988 wrote:

IMO the current Codex is the one with the worst design in the history of Necron codices, the only thing keeping me on board is how well 8th has been designed (even if the rules aren't perfect, the design philosophy is great).

Agreed.

While I wasn't a big fan of the fluff, I really miss 5th edition Necron book. It just had so many more options and more ways to build armies/units. I really loved using an army based around MSU Immortal squads, with each having an attached Cryptek or Lord.

I wasn't a big fan of the 7th edition book, but at least the Decurion gave me a legitimate reason to use most of my collection. I'd take a Spyder with Wraiths to give them RPs, I'd take a Destroyer Lord with the Destroyers to give them rerolls etc. The current book means that either half my collection just gathers dust or else I feel like I'm actively handicapping myself by taking my favourite models.

I like 8th edition, but I just don't see a reason to use Necrons over my Dark Eldar or Imperial Guard.

**Sasori**

Cynista wrote:
Having had 24 hours to think about the changes and list build my thoughts are that in a vacuum our CA reductions are pretty good, if not stellar. On average we can fit in an extra squad or vehicle per list. However taking into consideration the vast reductions almost every other faction has received, we are still bottom tier.

The point drops on FW units, Wraiths, Stalker and Immortals are all welcome but why didn't they drop the points of more units that nobody takes? Wasn't that the entire point?

Spyders, Destroyer Lords and Flayed Ones all suck EVEN MORE in comparison than they did before. It's really sad.

Let's be fair here, some points reductions are going to benefit more armies than others, as it matters how much stuff was reduced by. My Thousand Sons and Daemons got some points drops, but they are no where near as significant as what Necrons got. Eldar saw some points increases, and drops, but the drops are on units you never saw while a few units like SS/s got mild increases.

Being able to cram another 250-300+ points in a new Necron list is nothing to scoff at, it's a pretty huge deal. This includes many units that were already considered good like the DD Arks, wraiths and Immortals.

We also did see them drop the points of most every unit that nobody takes. They clearly didn't hit them all, which is a shame, but I feel you are being disingenuous when you say that, as nearly every single unit got a points reduction in some fashion. There is a very small list of notable exceptions. Will it be enough for every unit? No, but it will be for some.

Now, I do think there are still some fundamental problems that hold us back from being toward the top, but I feel we are pretty safely in the middle now, and are significantly better off than we were. Most of the armies that saw major reductions like the Crons were hovering around the same tier, like ad mech, that we were.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
nintura wrote:
That's easy. They are a point and click army. They have no depth, no range of interests. They are very flat.

Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate, sadly.

vict0988 wrote:

IMO the current Codex is the one with the worst design in the history of Necron codices, the only thing keeping me on board is how well 8th has been designed (even if the rules aren't perfect, the design philosophy is great).

Agreed.

While I wasn't a big fan of the fluff, I really miss 5th edition Necron book. It just had so many more options and more ways to build armies/units. I really loved using an army based around MSU Immortal squads, with each having an attached Cryptek or Lord.

I wasn't a big fan of the 7th edition book, but at least the Decurion gave me a legitimate reason to use most of my collection. I'd take a Spyder with Wraiths to give them RPs, I'd take a Destroyer Lord with the Destroyers to give them rerolls etc. The current book means that either half my collection just gathers dust or else I feel like I'm actively handicapping myself by taking my favourite models.

I like 8th edition, but I just don't see a reason to use Necrons over my Dark Eldar or Imperial Guard.

The 5th edition dex was a masterpiece, and I do miss it. We have assuredly lost a ton of flavor over time. I really miss my Crypteks and Entropic Strike.

**Cynista**

Sasori wrote:

Let's be fair here, some points reductions are going to benefit more armies than others, as it matters how much stuff was reduced by. My Thousand Sons and Daemons got some points drops, but they are no where near as significant as what Necrons got. Eldar saw some points increases, and drops, but the drops are on units you never saw while a few units like SS/s got mild increases.

Being able to cram another 250-300+ points in a new Necron list is nothing to scoff at, it's a pretty huge deal. This includes many units that were already considered good like the DD Arks, wraiths and Immortals.

We also did see them drop the points of most every unit that nobody takes. They clearly didn't hit them all, which is a shame, but I feel you are being disingenuous when you say that, as nearly every single unit got a points reduction in some fashion. There is a very small list of notable exceptions. Will it be enough for every unit? No, but it will be for some.

Now, I do think there are still some fundamental problems that hold us back from being toward the top, but I feel we are pretty safely in the middle now, and are significantly better off than we were. Most of the armies that saw major reductions like the Crons were hovering around the same tier, like ad mech, that we were.

Well only around half our units or slightly above that got point drops, which is definitely not nearly every single unit. And when that doesn't include some of the things that needed it most, it's a bit dumb really. So no I don't think I'm being disingenuous.

Being able to cram an extra 250 points into a new 2000p list is meaningless when half of the other armies can do that now too, including Guard, giving every Imperial player even more reason to use soup.

If you really think we are now comfortably mid tier, please tell me which 4-5 factions Necrons are better than, and more importantly, why

**Doctoralex**

Ok, so I currently have the following list for +- 1800 points with the CA changes:

2x cloaktek
Lord

3x 5 T. Immortals

6 Wraiths
9x Tomb Blades
6x Destroyers
3x Scarabs

3x DDA.

What should i do with the spare 200 points?

**vict0988**

Doctoralex wrote:
Ok, so I currently have the following list for +- 1800 points with the CA changes:

2x cloaktek
Lord

3x 5 T. Immortals

6 Wraiths
9x Tomb Blades
6x Destroyers
3x Scarabs

3x DDA.

What should i do with the spare 200 points?

I'd cut a cloaktek and 3 Scarabs and run another 6 Destroyers. No real reason to run 2 Cloakteks is there? It's a lot of pts for not a lot of damage output, if you fail to keep everyone within range every turn, so what? You've got another 85 pts of actual units in your army that can do stuff. You're losing a CP also, but I don't think that's a problem in your list. A Triarch Stalker and a bunch more Scarabs would be decent if you don't want to let go of your 9th CP. Sidegrading a Cryptek to an Overlord and getting 2x10 Tesla Immortals is also another good option.

**Sasori**

Cynista wrote:
Sasori wrote:

Let's be fair here, some points reductions are going to benefit more armies than others, as it matters how much stuff was reduced by. My Thousand Sons and Daemons got some points drops, but they are no where near as significant as what Necrons got. Eldar saw some points increases, and drops, but the drops are on units you never saw while a few units like SS/s got mild increases.

Being able to cram another 250-300+ points in a new Necron list is nothing to scoff at, it's a pretty huge deal. This includes many units that were already considered good like the DD Arks, wraiths and Immortals.

We also did see them drop the points of most every unit that nobody takes. They clearly didn't hit them all, which is a shame, but I feel you are being disingenuous when you say that, as nearly every single unit got a points reduction in some fashion. There is a very small list of notable exceptions. Will it be enough for every unit? No, but it will be for some.

Now, I do think there are still some fundamental problems that hold us back from being toward the top, but I feel we are pretty safely in the middle now, and are significantly better off than we were. Most of the armies that saw major reductions like the Crons were hovering around the same tier, like ad mech, that we were.

Well only around half our units or slightly above that got point drops, which is definitely not nearly every single unit. And when that doesn't include some of the things that needed it most, it's a bit dumb really. So no I don't think I'm being disingenuous.

Being able to cram an extra 250 points into a new 2000p list is meaningless when half of the other armies can do that now too, including Guard, giving every Imperial player even more reason to use soup.

If you really think we are now comfortably mid tier, please tell me which 4-5 factions Necrons are better than, and more importantly, why

Uh, it's more than half. Out of our Codex Units, we had 26 units drop in points (Which includes the weapons drops) If you in include Warscythe Overlords and Destroyer Lords, then it drops even further to 28. That's out of a total of 36. This doesn't even include Forgeworld, which I think everything but Ancanthrites dropped.

It is not meaningless, as I explained in my post. Not all armies got the volume of points drops that we did, and many of our points drops were already on viable units, like Wraiths and DD Arks. A good example is Praetorians. They say a points drop, but probably won't be used on the table. We had points drops on several units that were already seeing play on the table, making them more meaningful. A lot of the points drops we saw on other armies were on units that still likely won't see play.

As for factions that we are better than, I would say Grey Knights, Dark Angels, SOB with the beta Dex, and likely still Ad Mech. Necrons fared pretty well against any of these, except maybe SoB before, and I feel our points drops were more significant and on more significant units than what they saw.

I also think that a lot of QS'd vehicles, as we discussed earlier in the thread, are going to be tough for some armies to deal with. Right now we usually see two at most on the field, but in the future we may see 5 or more. This could cause a small ripple effect.

Overall, I think we have the tools to compete with most armies, and depending on how our builds evolve could prove to be rough for several armies to deal with. I don't think we will be at the top tables, but to me I think it's enough to pull us up.

**RogueApiary**

Cynista wrote:
Sasori wrote:

Let's be fair here, some points reductions are going to benefit more armies than others, as it matters how much stuff was reduced by. My Thousand Sons and Daemons got some points drops, but they are no where near as significant as what Necrons got. Eldar saw some points increases, and drops, but the drops are on units you never saw while a few units like SS/s got mild increases.

Being able to cram another 250-300+ points in a new Necron list is nothing to scoff at, it's a pretty huge deal. This includes many units that were already considered good like the DD Arks, wraiths and Immortals.

We also did see them drop the points of most every unit that nobody takes. They clearly didn't hit them all, which is a shame, but I feel you are being disingenuous when you say that, as nearly every single unit got a points reduction in some fashion. There is a very small list of notable exceptions. Will it be enough for every unit? No, but it will be for some.

Now, I do think there are still some fundamental problems that hold us back from being toward the top, but I feel we are pretty safely in the middle now, and are significantly better off than we were. Most of the armies that saw major reductions like the Crons were hovering around the same tier, like ad mech, that we were.

Well only around half our units or slightly above that got point drops, which is definitely not nearly every single unit. And when that doesn't include some of the things that needed it most, it's a bit dumb really. So no I don't think I'm being disingenuous.

Being able to cram an extra 250 points into a new 2000p list is meaningless when half of the other armies can do that now too, including Guard, giving every Imperial player even more reason to use soup.

If you really think we are now comfortably mid tier, please tell me which 4-5 factions Necrons are better than, and more importantly, why

Guard did not get anywhere near 250 points shaved off a 2k list. The only notable drops were to Sentinels and Tank Commanders. The latter of which is still a hard sell as long as Kingslayer remains a secondary in ITC, since giving up 4 easy VP is questionable no matter how cheap they are. I checked my old Guard lists in battlescribe and the highest reduction was 65 points. Meanwhile, the 2k Necron list I'm in the process of building/painting is 201 points lighter.

**BlaxicanX**

Part of the issue with just points drops is that it also only really scales into something meaningful at larger point games. At 2500 you might be getting 300 points back for other stuff, good for you. At 2000 you might be getting around 150-200 back on average, cool I guess. My group plays at 1500 as do the local tournaments here- 1500 is also the standard for the game outside of the biggest tournaments. I'm looking at, *at best*, around 40 points coming back to me from these drops.

At that level basically none of the units that were bad before are worth taking now. Maybe a triarch stalker, but that's it. And at 1500 I can't rely on double detachments and the like to farm CP's.

I mean, sure, "something is better then nothing", but how much am I actually gaining in power boost from just these points drops?

**IanVanCheese**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Part of the issue with just points drops is that it also only really scales into something meaningful at larger point games. At 2500 you might be getting 300 points back for other stuff, good for you. At 2000 you might be getting around 150-200 back on average, cool I guess. My group plays at 1500 as do the local tournaments here- 1500 is also the standard for the game outside of the biggest tournaments. I'm looking at, *at best*, around 40 points coming back to me from these drops.

At that level basically none of the units that were bad before are worth taking now. Maybe a triarch stalker, but that's it. And at 1500 I can't rely on double detachments and the like to farm CP's.

I mean, sure, "something is better then nothing", but how much am I actually gaining in power boost from just these points drops?

1500 is the reverse sweet spot for necrons. We're good in low point games, and these changes should buff is higher point games, but 1500 is an awkward middle ground.

I'm super excited to see how my next few games go. My usual opponents are Ad Mech and Drukhari (a relatively chill build though) too, so I get to see them against another list that saw big changes, and one that saw bugger all change. I've got the Spearhead box coming tomorrow, definitely getting 2 more DDAs and probably investing in some Stalkers now though.

**moonsmite**

This evening I was putting pen to paper to try and work a list i want to go into this change.

Seems my thoughts matched most peoples views on here and for a 1.5k list i got this

Spoiler:

This list comes to exactly 1500, or 1739 before CA. Cant say how much it annoys me to drop an immortal unit to 9 to make it all fit.

Generally see the stalkers making sure the immortals and the doomsday's hit as support than main damage dealers, though will help against knights

**Darsath**

I find it amazing that the Spyder didn't see any points cuts. That thing is so overcosted, and dies way too easily for anyone to consider playing it.