Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**vict0988**

tneva82 wrote:
Something I have been noticing with my necrons. Doomsday arks. Lovely vehicle. Plenty of firepower. But I'm having hard time getting to actually fire the high power mode! People are too good at moving out of sight so I end up having to move.

On the other hand it gives me easy range with the side guns so actually those end up causing quite a decent damage in the end! Much to my opponents annoyance. Today the krieg player facing them 2nd time(I played vs him in 1st round) had serious headache with my doomsday arks floating around chasing his tank commanders(and hoping to get LOS to basilisk as well preferably).

Go figure. Are other people just playing on more open boards or how you keep them shooting the big power gun?

Wish the ghost ark was better though. I would love cheap version with just the gaus flayers and float around throwing 20 dice around deflecting lascannon shots to opponents annoyance.

You can find pics of tournament tables on google and in battle reports, you can see what kind of terrain people play with. For me it's up and down, if I place my Doomsday Ark on top of a ruin there will be relatively little space to hide, maybe for 2-3 vehicles and 60 infantry models. But Knights, parking lots or hordes will not have enough room to hide. On top of that I usually always play with objectives more or less out in the open and whether you use Maelstrom or ITC you have an incentive to not just hide and slink around all game. Tallarn Tank Commanders can be a bit of a nightmare to get LOS on because they can move after shooting, same with mortar teams and Wyverns that don't need LOS and have long range. As you mentioned even on the worst battlefield the Doomsday Ark (especially the Sautekh one) is pretty mobile and can do some good damage on the move.

**p5freak**

I never had a problem firing my DDAs with high power shots. I place them at the highest points of my deployment zone, and usually dont have to move them. At my FLGS we play with ~10 citadel ruins, those have openings everywhere, so its no problem to have LOS.

**stormcraft**

Trying to make a List for the following Format:

1250 Pts
No Datasheet more than once, except Troops (up to 3 Times each)

Here are my 2 Ideas:

1. Nephrek Speed List:

Spoiler:

2. Sauthek Shooty

Spoiler:

**vict0988**

stormcraft wrote:
Trying to make a List for the following Format:

1250 Pts
No Datasheet more than once, except Troops (up to 3 Times each)

What missions will you be playing? What sort of terrain is usually used at the venue you'll be playing at? I'd say go for the Sautekh list without knowing more.

**stormcraft**

6 objectives Pre set Symetrical on The Tables, Plenty Ruins, 1 Big LOS Blocker n the Middle usually.

Primary Mission is 1 Point per Objective Hold at the End of Player Turn
SEcondary is 1 Point per 100Points Killed at the End of The game.
Tetriary is 3 Player Chosen Bonus Objectives netting 1 to 5 Points Each.

So Mainly hold a Many Objectives as Possible and Kill as much as Possible

**p5freak**

My suggestion. You can deepstrike the destroyers and the veiltek, or use the veiltek to jump them somewhere T1 and kill vehicles. Nephrekh lets you move fast across the map. Scarabs can screen against deepstrikers, they can intercept smites, tie up units in melee. Tomb blades are hard to kill and very fast as nephrekh. You could use a DDA instead of the destroyers, but one is none. If you roll 1s or 2s for the number of shots, or when hitting, the DDA will not do any damage. You could drop some models here and there, remove the destroyers, and go with two DDAs.

Spoiler:

**vict0988**

stormcraft wrote:
6 objectives Pre set Symetrical on The Tables, Plenty Ruins, 1 Big LOS Blocker n the Middle usually.

Primary Mission is 1 Point per Objective Hold at the End of Player Turn
SEcondary is 1 Point per 100Points Killed at the End of The game.
Tetriary is 3 Player Chosen Bonus Objectives netting 1 to 5 Points Each.

So Mainly hold a Many Objectives as Possible and Kill as much as Possible

I'd replace the DDA and TBs with 6 Destroyers if you end up going with Nephrekh, I still think Sautekh looks better.

**tneva82**

p5freak wrote:
I never had a problem firing my DDAs with high power shots. I place them at the highest points of my deployment zone, and usually dont have to move them. At my FLGS we play with ~10 citadel ruins, those have openings everywhere, so its no problem to have LOS.

Well we don't play with hole ridden ruins or play that 1st floor block. Ruins with such holes might just as well not be on board. And then we have 2 gunliness stationary blowing up holes.

**iGuy91**

tneva82 wrote:
Something I have been noticing with my necrons. Doomsday arks. Lovely vehicle. Plenty of firepower. But I'm having hard time getting to actually fire the high power mode! People are too good at moving out of sight so I end up having to move.

On the other hand it gives me easy range with the side guns so actually those end up causing quite a decent damage in the end! Much to my opponents annoyance. Today the krieg player facing them 2nd time(I played vs him in 1st round) had serious headache with my doomsday arks floating around chasing his tank commanders(and hoping to get LOS to basilisk as well preferably).

Go figure. Are other people just playing on more open boards or how you keep them shooting the big power gun?

Wish the ghost ark was better though. I would love cheap version with just the gaus flayers and float around throwing 20 dice around deflecting lascannon shots to opponents annoyance.

You must have some craaaazzy LOS blocking terrain, or are playing ITC style magic boxes. That, and remember they can fly. Pop them up on top of a building for crazy LOS.
I usually have little trouble with it.

**xenoterracide**

Do we have any must use strategems? like "endless cacophony" or "veterans of the long war" for chaos? After reading through them twice I haven't found any, more contextual, but that leaves me having trouble remembering them.

**iGuy91**

xenoterracide wrote:
Do we have any must use strategems? like "endless cacophony" or "veterans of the long war" for chaos? After reading through them twice I haven't found any, more contextual, but that leaves me having trouble remembering them.

Solar Pulse is fantastic, as is extermination protocols for destroyers

If you run wraiths, adaptive subroutines is fantastic

Quantum Deflection is good on our vehicles

Amalgamated Targeting Data is a big mortal wound bomb if you run doom scythes.

**tneva82**

iGuy91 wrote:

You must have some craaaazzy LOS blocking terrain, or are playing ITC style magic boxes. That, and remember they can fly. Pop them up on top of a building for crazy LOS.
I usually have little trouble with it.

Or with ruins that have windows blocked. Ruins with holes are useless and might be just as well removed and play on planet bowling ball.

As for top of building works until opponent puts his vehicle behind building himself. Unless you have like 20" tall tower(and no such things here and thank god for that to prevent fly keyword being overpowered) it's not going to get LOS to vehicle hugging wall.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Math help needed! Tried to calculate what effect melta bonus(2d6 pick highest for damage) is with quantum shield. Either my logic is incorrect or average damage per shot is actually same as with d6 damage(1.555555555555... per shot).

Mapped out how many 1, 2, 3 etc damage you get in 36 dice rolls(2d6). Came up with 1x1, 3x2, 5x3, 7x4, 9x5 and 11x6 for total of 36 different result.

Then for damage I used (odds of damage getting through)*damage*combinations(from above table) so for example for 5 damage (1/3)*5*9 for total of 15. Got 1, 5, 10, 14, 15 and 11 for total of 56 damage. Divide by 36 and I got 1.55555. Exact same as d6 damage.

Intuitively feels wrong. I would have thought melta drops average damage as well but seems it only causes bigger swings(either you are invulnerable or you get big holes in your arks) with average damage staying same...My method of calculating average incorrect?

**torblind**

I think it does, QS negates the melta bonus.

Clicking around in www.dice-hammer.com suggests that too. Although it doesn't show the calculations, just the average output of damage. (Check the QS box in the too and the melta box on the weapon)

**vict0988**

xenoterracide wrote:
Do we have any must use strategems? like "endless cacophony" or "veterans of the long war" for chaos? After reading through them twice I haven't found any, more contextual, but that leaves me having trouble remembering them.

*Tier 1 Stratagems: Amalgamated Targeting Data, Blood Rites, Extermination Protocols, Methodical Destruction, Phaeron's Will and Prepared Positions.
*Tier 2 Stratagems: Adaptive Subroutines, Command Re-roll, Damage Control Override, Dynastic Heirlooms, Insane Bravery, New Orders, Reclaim a Lost Empire, Resurrection Protocols, Solar Pulse, Talent For Annihilation (for Tesla only), Translocation Crypt and Quantum Deflection.
*Tier 3 Stratagems: Cosmic Powers, Counter-Offensive, Dimensional Corridor, Dispersion Field Amplification, Disruption Fields, Emergency Invasion Beam, Judgment of the Triarch, Repair Subroutines and Wrath of the C'Tan.
*Tier 4 Stratagems: Enhanced Invasion Beam, Gravitic Singularity, Entropic Strike and Self Destruction.
*Tier 5 Stratagems: Enhanced Reanimation Protocols.

Tier 5 is useless, but the rest are listed more or less in order of how often they are useful and how big an impact they have on my games.

tneva82 wrote:

Math help needed! Tried to calculate what effect melta bonus(2d6 pick highest for damage) is with quantum shield. Either my logic is incorrect or average damage per shot is actually same as with d6 damage(1.555555555555... per shot).

Mapped out how many 1, 2, 3 etc damage you get in 36 dice rolls(2d6). Came up with 1x1, 3x2, 5x3, 7x4, 9x5 and 11x6 for total of 36 different result.

Then for damage I used (odds of damage getting through)*damage*combinations(from above table) so for example for 5 damage (1/3)*5*9 for total of 15. Got 1, 5, 10, 14, 15 and 11 for total of 56 damage. Divide by 36 and I got 1.55555. Exact same as d6 damage.

Intuitively feels wrong. I would have thought melta drops average damage as well but seems it only causes bigger swings(either you are invulnerable or you get big holes in your arks) with average damage staying same...My method of calculating average incorrect?

You can QD against melta, very often worth it, re-rolling a 5/6 for D5/D6 will also have a huge impact. On paper, it might be the same but in reality, melta will do much worse. Add to that the fact that melta pays more for the average wound inflicted, something like plasma will be four times as effective.

Your method is correct.

Spoiler:

*QS vs no QS your durability is multiplied by

Spoiler:

*QD vs QS your durability is multiplied by

Spoiler:

**tneva82**

Vict thanks. And yeah in general I def would like to have QS vs melta than QS vs non melta even this way. Especially with quantum deflection stratagem(here average actually differs between the two) and command rerolls to reroll that annoying 6 which is bigger impact than when failing that QS vs lower damage so all factors considered better for necron the more melta bonus opponent has.

But good to know my method was correct. But surprised the heck out of me to see the result.

**Shaelinith**

vict0988 wrote:

*Tier 1 Stratagems: Blood Rites,

Genuine question, on what unit do you play Blood Rites ? Scythe guard ? Wraiths ? Both ? With support (Crimson Haze warlord trait and/or Anrakyr) ?
Do you have success with that kind of list ?

**vict0988**

Shaelinith wrote:
vict0988 wrote:

*Tier 1 Stratagems: Blood Rites,

Genuine question, on what unit do you play Blood Rites ? Scythe guard ? Wraiths ? Both ? With support (Crimson Haze warlord trait and/or Anrakyr) ?
Do you have success with that kind of list ?

It's been a while since i used it, but yeah Scythe Guard w. Anrakyr led by Lord w. Crimson Haze, naked Wraiths in my 18-man Canoptek C'tan Novokh list led by Destroyer Lord w. Haze. I also used it with the Seraptek Construct when I was testing it just as the rules came out, I don't remember using it while testing out Flayed Ones, I kept forgetting to bring them in from reinforcements. I have success with all my lists, some more than others, I wouldn't say any of these lists are good enough to be called truly competitive, they're still something I'd bring in a casual match.

**tneva82**

Apart from monolith turn 1 charge combo which costs a lot and isn't competive anyway what do people use deceiver's repositioning for? Just fixing deployment mistakes? Destroyers into better position? DDA? With immortals wanting cryptek and overlord nearby repositioning those isn't that feasible.

Thinking of ordering deceiver(plus 2 apoc boxes and start collecting box) so thinking what to use it for(besides mortal wounds everywhere)

**Odrankt**

Don't order a Deceiver or any C'tan. I would be surprised if GW are using Psychic Awakening to update old metal/Finecast models into plastic. So wait until Necrons show up and if we don't get new plastic C'tan then buy the Finecast deceiver

**tneva82**

A) i very much doubt c'tans are high in priority list. First book has 1 kits for eldars and who knows when necrons get stuff. Next ydear? b) i don't have fixation to get everything in plastic which is going to result in price hike anyway

**Odrankt**

Okay, just thought I would pre-warn you that GW are updating older kits into plastic ones. So if you want to buy your C'tan as Finecast then work away. I just hope it doesn't come bent or mis-figured.

**p5freak**

Odrankt wrote:
Don't order a Deceiver or any C'tan. I would be surprised if GW are using Psychic Awakening to update old metal/Finecast models into plastic. So wait until Necrons show up and if we don't get new plastic C'tan then buy the Finecast deceiver

Why ? Ctans dont use psychic powers. Necrons have no psykers.

**tneva82**

Odrankt wrote:
Okay, just thought I would pre-warn you that GW are updating older kits into plastic ones. So if you want to buy your C'tan as Finecast then work away. I just hope it doesn't come bent or mis-figured.

In past 4 years I have had zero issues with finecast. Worst has been sword I have had to heat up to straighten up but bohoo. Plastic models with their bazillion pieces takes me more time to assemble anyway.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

p5freak wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
Don't order a Deceiver or any C'tan. I would be surprised if GW are using Psychic Awakening to update old metal/Finecast models into plastic. So wait until Necrons show up and if we don't get new plastic C'tan then buy the Finecast deceiver

Why ? Ctans dont use psychic powers. Necrons have no psykers.

All releases in this don't use psychic powers(or since when howling banshees have been psykers? incubis?) though so there he has point. C'tan is as good guess as to what comes as others. But could be some of the named characters redone either. All won't be changed anyway so plenty to choose.

But then again GW hasn't said all will get models. Necrons could get just couple specialist detachments ala vigilus. Or maybe super-traits like marines got combat doctrines. Or new plastic Imhotek and updated stats. Or whatever.

**p5freak**

So, dont buy anything because some new models might be released. Got it

**Odrankt**

Or maybe I'm telling someone to not buy anything Finecast because GW are planning to update all their Finecast models with newer plastic ones. Sorry that I'm trying to be helpful to people on here.

**Latro_**

Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book

**vict0988**

Latro_ wrote:
Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book

It's probably not a good time for anyone when Iron Hands come out, the above has been the meta units until now but how the meta changes in a couple of months as everybody gets their Space Marines armies painted or re-painted so it might be that Wraith Wings become a thing again to ignore all the AP-2 spam. Ignoring that fact, if you like the above then Necrons are mid-tier compared to most other armies. As far as build options I don't think we're any more limited than most factions and the units you listed aren't that much better than many of our other units. A lot of people have said that Craftworlds have a lot of good builds, but I don't really trust that and now a lot of Craftworld players are saying they only have the same number of good units Necrons do.
The units you mentioned are our top tier units, below that is the Seraptek Heavy Constructs, Triarch Stalkers, Wraiths, Scarabs and Gauss Pylons which are worse but still good enough to win tournaments. Spyders, Monoliths, Obelisks, Acanthrites and Night Scythes are the only truly terrible Necron units IMO, the rest fall in-between the second rung of units and this fourth useless one, but the tier 3 units can still be used to great effect. It depends on what you want from your army and what playstyle you want to use, 8th is way too balanced to ignore all but 5-6 units in the codex. I'd also say that Imotekh is better than Overlords and Lords are better for Immortals, but Crypteks are better for Destroyers and Tomb Blades. Pts will be updated in 3 months, I'm definitely not buying anything until then. I'd also say that's a good reason to wait ordering any C'tan, we might be seeing 160 pt Transcendent C'tan and no movement on the others.

**tneva82**

Odrankt wrote:
Or maybe I'm telling someone to not buy anything Finecast because GW are planning to update all their Finecast models with newer plastic ones. Sorry that I'm trying to be helpful to people on here.

That means you are looking at years of waiting though...

People have claiming "NOW" GW changes all the finecast models to plastic for years. But this is just some models but hey even eldars got just 1 out of what 6 aspects to plastic this time.

Besides not all have irrational hatred of finecast and there's no quarantee the new model would be even better looking and almost certainly suffer from size creep that's rather annoying. Plus price hike as usual with plastic models. I rather pay 22.5£ now than 40-50£ for oversized model in future(which is going to be harder to assemble as well)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vict0988 wrote:
I'd also say that's a good reason to wait ordering any C'tan, we might be seeing 160 pt Transcendent C'tan and no movement on the others.

Well they perform different functions anyway as transcendent c'tan is for the moving. Anyway I'm future proof for that anyway as I have t'ctan already anyway.

**p5freak**

Latro_ wrote:Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book

If you want to play competitively, then yes, thats the way to go. And dont expect to be in the top 10.

**CthuluIsSpy**

So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?