Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

IanVanCheese wrote:
I feel like I'm going to have to sell my soul to a star god just to live long enough to see our Psychic Awakening book. We're gonna be last, aren't we?

At this point, i'm hoping the book is Necrons vs Custodes so I can get both at the same time, and buy just 1 book for my main armies.

Granted, going last means we'll probably get solid buffs.

Dont expect to much from our PA book, that way you wont be disappointed. I think we will get to choose two abilities for a custom dynasty, new stratagems, new warlord traits, and thats it.

IanVanCheese wrote:
I feel like I'm going to have to sell my soul to a star god just to live long enough to see our Psychic Awakening book. We're gonna be last, aren't we?

Could be. Just 2 or 3 books left so odds aren't that bad. But hey at worst july is the month.

IanVanCheese wrote:
I feel like I'm going to have to sell my soul to a star god just to live long enough to see our Psychic Awakening book. We're gonna be last, aren't we?

I mean, Necrons are the historical antagonist to Psychic forces in the galaxy... maybe we’re last as a final flourish?

 p5freak wrote:
Dont expect to much from our PA book, that way you wont be disappointed. I think we will get to choose two abilities for a custom dynasty, new stratagems, new warlord traits, and thats it.

Yeah I know. On the plus side, most of our existing dynasty traits are sub-par, so odds are good that even some mediocre build a dynasty stuff will be good for us. I'm expecting us to get Genestealer cult level treatment.

There are a couple of borderline units that are one good specific strat away from being playable though.

My hope is they continue the pattern from Sisters and Tau to add ignore AP-1 & AP -2 somehow. Maybe all Infantry? RP would be sorted!

Please everybody...dont expect RP to ne changed...several times they had the oppurtunity to do so and didnt so thats a big NO.

As someone already said I also only expect DIY Dynasties and some new strats/WL traits maybe some new Ctan powers (3 at max.)

One thing that would suprise me If theyd change DDAs to 3D3 shots like SOB got

This will be it...probably even less

Is skoffs still updating the front page?

I did some EV calcs on breakpoints for C’Tan Powers that might be useful?

I'm actually hoping for a few things.

A) A shoot twice strat
B) An 'ignore AP' type strat or DIY Dynasty
C) A 'Transhuman Physiology'-type Strategem
D) A small buff to 'Gauss' weapons since they are completely outperformed by Tesla weapons

 iGuy91 wrote:
I'm actually hoping for a few things.

A) A shoot twice strat
B) An 'ignore AP' type strat or DIY Dynasty
C) A 'Transhuman Physiology'-type Strategem
D) A small buff to 'Gauss' weapons since they are completely outperformed by Tesla weapons

Yeah I'd be happy with this.

Gauss blasters to D2 would be the obvious solution, though they may need a 1 or 2 pt increase, which is fine. As it stands, they don't do their job versus elite infantry, not in the primaris era. Some ways to add resilience without messing with RP would also be good.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I'm actually hoping for a few things.

A) A shoot twice strat
B) An 'ignore AP' type strat or DIY Dynasty
C) A 'Transhuman Physiology'-type Strategem
D) A small buff to 'Gauss' weapons since they are completely outperformed by Tesla weapons

Yeah I'd be happy with this.

Gauss blasters to D2 would be the obvious solution, though they may need a 1 or 2 pt increase, which is fine. As it stands, they don't do their job versus elite infantry, not in the primaris era. Some ways to add resilience without messing with RP would also be good.

I actually think they'd be fine as is. An intercessor with stalker bolt rifle gets the same AP, same damage, at a longer range, on a much tougher model.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Please everybody...dont expect RP to ne changed...several times they had the oppurtunity to do so and didnt so thats a big NO.

As someone already said I also only expect DIY Dynasties and some new strats/WL traits maybe some new Ctan powers (3 at max.)

One thing that would suprise me If theyd change DDAs to 3D3 shots like SOB got

This will be it...probably even less

You missed the point entirely. RP doesn't have to change at all if the models that have it are not wiped from the board immediately. Ignore API 1/2 would mean fewer casualties, and so RP could actually occur. It would be a DIY dynasty trait, which fits right in.

Well no -2 flat out. For one nobody does that flat out. Apart from sisters does anybody else ignore -2? And sisters need order(so if you pick that and other you already are better) AND need buff aura which can be removed.

Also frankly that might get too tough. Sisters already are ridiculously tough and that's with t3 no rp. Other dynasties might just as well dissapear

 iGuy91 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I'm actually hoping for a few things.

A) A shoot twice strat
B) An 'ignore AP' type strat or DIY Dynasty
C) A 'Transhuman Physiology'-type Strategem
D) A small buff to 'Gauss' weapons since they are completely outperformed by Tesla weapons

Yeah I'd be happy with this.

Gauss blasters to D2 would be the obvious solution, though they may need a 1 or 2 pt increase, which is fine. As it stands, they don't do their job versus elite infantry, not in the primaris era. Some ways to add resilience without messing with RP would also be good.

I actually think they'd be fine as is. An intercessor with stalker bolt rifle gets the same AP, same damage, at a longer range, on a much tougher model.

Maybe. We do get better strength and an extra shot at half range on them, but I see your point (though Intercessors need to go up a couple of points themselves).

What are people's thoughts on the Nihalkh list that did well recently? TabletopTactics did a game that kind of emulated the list and it beat Imperial Fists pretty handily.

Reclaim the Lost Empire has always been a beast of a strat and being survivable is more important than ever.

I'm not sure I am familiar with the list (or batrep in question). Any chance you could post it up? I'd love to look them over.

RTLE is solid, its just hard to use IMO. I use it atm to keep my Seraptek Heavy construct alive since it goes to a 2+/4++ as long as I can run it forward onto an objective midfield.

Hmmm...Haven't played much nihilikh so somehow I had idea you had to be close to objective AND not move to benefit but...nope. Hmmmm...Interesting. Veeeery interesting. Might try that one next time I play with necrons. Well won't have models for said list but something fun.

tneva82 wrote:
Well no -2 flat out. For one nobody does that flat out. Apart from sisters does anybody else ignore -2? And sisters need order(so if you pick that and other you already are better) AND need buff aura which can be removed.

Also frankly that might get too tough. Sisters already are ridiculously tough and that's with t3 no rp. Other dynasties might just as well dissapear

You mean like Iron Hands or Imperial Fists, which nobody played until the update?

But seriously, if it applied to infantry only, you'd be giving up Sautekh which means no methodical destruction, possibly no Immotekh, etc.

Also, while we're speculating. Maybe War of the Spider will give a buff to Spyders? That'd sure be nice!

Mostly, I hope whatever we get gives us reason to field other units that we haven't seen in a while. Improving internal balance is always good for the game I think.

barontuman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well no -2 flat out. For one nobody does that flat out. Apart from sisters does anybody else ignore -2? And sisters need order(so if you pick that and other you already are better) AND need buff aura which can be removed.

Also frankly that might get too tough. Sisters already are ridiculously tough and that's with t3 no rp. Other dynasties might just as well dissapear

You mean like Iron Hands or Imperial Fists, which nobody played until the update?

But seriously, if it applied to infantry only, you'd be giving up Sautekh which means no methodical destruction, possibly no Immotekh, etc.

Also, while we're speculating. Maybe War of the Spider will give a buff to Spyders? That'd sure be nice!

Mostly, I hope whatever we get gives us reason to field other units that we haven't seen in a while. Improving internal balance is always good for the game I think.

Well certainly non-IH/non-IF armies are suffering from sharp drop...

But if you have willing opponents howabout try it? Rather than sautekh bonuses you ignore -2. I expect your opponents will get sick of that. Every opponent of my sisters have so far been cursing just how tough they are(2k game, entire tau army minus crisises in reserve shot T1 with everybody in range and target, 4 girls died...IG basilisks and regular russes might just as well not been there for all the good they did...) and that was with T3 models that don't come back alive. In hands of T4 guys that come back and without even having buff character to snipe to get rid of -2 ignoring down to -1? Holy smokey.

Oh and you could still get Imotekh by -1CP at worst. Methodical destruction is okayish maybe but frankly haven't ever felt I miss it with my nephrekh. But having army that basically laughs off tau army firepower meanwhile...

(I'm feeling sometimes dirty with my sisters...Only thing keeping them in check is near universal 24" range and 12" being the sweet spot for guns)

-1 I could get behind but flat out ignore -2 AND ability to even pick second custom dynasty...That -2 would alone be better than sister's main order bonus and necrons would get second on top of that?

edit: Mind you in terms of fluff and feel I could get behind that. However I think it would require a) upping power of other dynasties to match them and b) some price upgrades to units affected. Note that even with infantry that still includes stuff like destroyers and heavy destroyers. I know I would be looking at doing armies that spam just immortals and destroyers of both variety if they ignored -2 AP.

Yeah, it would definitely improve our power level. It's just wishlisting, and was a thought that both fluff and power are served. Ignore -1 would be useful for sure, but I'm not sure it'd make warriors worth it.

Back to tactics. Played in a 30 player ITC RTT, 6 games. Came in 9th. Played against :

* Minor loss Imperial Fists 2x thunderfires, 2x Whirlwinds, big dread, gunline of primaris
* Minor loss Iron Hands 2x big dreads 3x small dreads 3x thunderfires
* Major win Tau triptide + 30+drones, 3 suit characters
* Minor loss Iron Hands + Blood Angels 3x thunderfires, 4 character dreads
* Major win Chaos 3x Knights and Alpha Legion
* Major win Craftworld Eldar

My list was

In the 3 losses, the Doomscythes were a liability. They always survived first turn, but the strat was not too useful. All 3 losses were hammer and anvil or pointy hammer and anvil (rolled randomly). Given that the losses were within 4-5 points, and the wins were fairly substantial, I'm pretty happy with the results. I'm thinking that I'll be swapping out the DS for Heavy Destroyers and some characters, which will let me be more aggressive with the DDA and do more reliable damage on turn one with Methodical Destruction against big targets.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I'm not sure I am familiar with the list (or batrep in question). Any chance you could post it up? I'd love to look them over.

RTLE is solid, its just hard to use IMO. I use it atm to keep my Seraptek Heavy construct alive since it goes to a 2+/4++ as long as I can run it forward onto an objective midfield.

Id also love to see this list.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I'm not sure I am familiar with the list (or batrep in question). Any chance you could post it up? I'd love to look them over.

RTLE is solid, its just hard to use IMO. I use it atm to keep my Seraptek Heavy construct alive since it goes to a 2+/4++ as long as I can run it forward onto an objective midfield.

TT video is here, but it's On Demand: https://tabletoptactics.tv/2020/02/17/warhammer-40000-tactica-report-imperial-fists-vs-necrons-2000pts/

The actual list was this:

Chronotec with Thrall of Silent King, Veil Lord with Orb and sword,
6, 6, 10 Tesla Immortals (as Chef said I was dying to fit in some Gauss, but you still need to deal with Orks etc)
Deceiver, 10 Shield Lychguard, 6 Wraiths 4 with pistols.

Scythe overlord with Orb 3 DDA and 2 x 3 Heavy Destroyers

All Nihilakh. It was run by Chris Frosin at the Warhammer World GT. It went 4-1 (played Quad Knights, Custodes, Iron Hands, Imperial Fists and then Grey Knights). Not 100% sure, but pretty sure Grey Knights was his loss, which is understandable given the smite output they have now. But with some tweaks aka a gakload of scarabs, I think this might be interesting.

It's basically about using Shieldguard strat and Reclaim to make the wraiths/shieldguard impossible to shift, while the Arks/Destroyers rain hell on their big guns. TT ran a variant list with what they had and it did really well too, beat an IF centurion castle.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I'm not sure I am familiar with the list (or batrep in question). Any chance you could post it up? I'd love to look them over.

RTLE is solid, its just hard to use IMO. I use it atm to keep my Seraptek Heavy construct alive since it goes to a 2+/4++ as long as I can run it forward onto an objective midfield.

TT video is here, but it's On Demand: https://tabletoptactics.tv/2020/02/17/warhammer-40000-tactica-report-imperial-fists-vs-necrons-2000pts/

The actual list was this:

Chronotec with Thrall of Silent King, Veil Lord with Orb and sword,
6, 6, 10 Tesla Immortals (as Chef said I was dying to fit in some Gauss, but you still need to deal with Orks etc)
Deceiver, 10 Shield Lychguard, 6 Wraiths 4 with pistols.

Scythe overlord with Orb 3 DDA and 2 x 3 Heavy Destroyers

All Nihilakh. It was run by Chris Frosin at the Warhammer World GT. It went 4-1 (played Quad Knights, Custodes, Iron Hands, Imperial Fists and then Grey Knights). Not 100% sure, but pretty sure Grey Knights was his loss, which is understandable given the smite output they have now. But with some tweaks aka a gakload of scarabs, I think this might be interesting.

It's basically about using Shieldguard strat and Reclaim to make the wraiths/shieldguard impossible to shift, while the Arks/Destroyers rain hell on their big guns. TT ran a variant list with what they had and it did really well too, beat an IF centurion castle.

Where's the jury on how many times you can do the strat per turn?

Here irrelevant. Shielguard strat and wraiths both have 3++ aka 2++ with the nihilikh stratagem. 1++ would be pointless as 1 fails anyway

edit: No wait I see. Both for 2++ the goal?

tneva82 wrote:
Here irrelevant. Shielguard strat and wraiths both have 3++ aka 2++ with the nihilikh stratagem. 1++ would be pointless as 1 fails anyway

edit: No wait I see. Both for 2++ the goal?

Well goal is irrelevant really, but that would be one use of it, sure.

I thought he was talking about upping inv save multiple steps which is why it wasn't relevant here. 3+->2+ is max you need. I have seen that idea being proposed mainly with the super heavy walker thing. That's where my confusion came from

tneva82 wrote:
I thought he was talking about upping inv save multiple steps which is why it wasn't relevant here. 3+->2+ is max you need. I have seen that idea being proposed mainly with the super heavy walker thing. That's where my confusion came from

well theres both the wraiths and the lychguard, right? If plan is to have them both unshiftable they would both benefit from 2++. Back then there was some fierce discussion on how many times said stratgem could be used, just asking if that has been addressed lately.

That's why i put the edit there. Realized what he was after so lt was relevant after all

torblind wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
I thought he was talking about upping inv save multiple steps which is why it wasn't relevant here. 3+->2+ is max you need. I have seen that idea being proposed mainly with the super heavy walker thing. That's where my confusion came from

well theres both the wraiths and the lychguard, right? If plan is to have them both unshiftable they would both benefit from 2++. Back then there was some fierce discussion on how many times said stratgem could be used, just asking if that has been addressed lately.

Multiple FAQs have been released, and GW hasnt provided any clarification on that matter, and i doubt they ever will. Giving both shieldguard and wraith a 2+ inv would cost 6CP per turn. You would need a brigade or a double battalion to keep that up for two turns.

 p5freak wrote:

torblind wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
I thought he was talking about upping inv save multiple steps which is why it wasn't relevant here. 3+->2+ is max you need. I have seen that idea being proposed mainly with the super heavy walker thing. That's where my confusion came from

well theres both the wraiths and the lychguard, right? If plan is to have them both unshiftable they would both benefit from 2++. Back then there was some fierce discussion on how many times said stratgem could be used, just asking if that has been addressed lately.

Multiple FAQs have been released, and GW hasnt provided any clarification on that matter, and i doubt they ever will. Giving both shieldguard and wraith a 2+ inv would cost 6CP per turn. You would need a brigade or a double battalion to keep that up for two turns.

Yeah, I think the better play is to hide one unit (the wraiths) and use their manoeuvrability as the threat. Or keep the lychguard back but have the veil ready to shunt them up field when the wraiths eventually die?

OK, so I've been messing around with Nihilakh. Having a bullet proof blob of Lychguard is great, but it's CP hungry tactic for sure. Double battalion seems impossible for Necrons though, if you want anything else at least.

I've also been looking at CCBs again. Since they're characters, a couple of them could do some work sat behind the Lychguard/Wraiths slinging Gauss cannon shots up field, while being quick enough to zip between objectives and providing more threats to anyone who comes near mid-field.

Current 2K list is:

Battalion - Nihilakh
Overlord with Res Orb
Cryptek with Veil

3 x 5 Tesla Immortals

3 x DDA

1 x Deceiver
10 x Shield Lychguard

Spearhead - Nihilakh

Cryptek with Cloak

6 x Wraiths
6 x Destroyers
3 x Scarabs

The only wiggle room in the list is the destroyers tbh. I could drop them for 6 Heavy Destroyers and use the spare points to make the overlord a CCB. Or they could be dropped to squeeze in another HQ and 15 immortals to go double battalion. I lose killing power, but I can keep the shields up for the whole game effectively. What do we think? Just looking to get some discussion going tbh