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Doctoralex wrote: I do hope this gets faqd, because the Vault has both the Ctan Shard and Dynasty keyword. So can it benefit from dynasty stuff or...?
The fluff doesn't support giving either the C'tan or the Tesseract Vault the <DYNASTY> keyword.
The wording for the dynasty bonus flat out says shards do not bonus, so while this may be fixed in the final codex by either removing it's <dynasty> keyword or rewording the dynasty rules, for now it cannot gain the benefit
So to expand on my last post, I wanted to cover the big change 8th ed will bring, salads. The most taken faction for a salad will undoubtedly be Novokh, the Dynasty code is great for certain units but you wouldn't want it on your whole army. It's a straight 22% upgrade for units hitting on 3s and a 25% upgrade for units hitting on 4s.
Since Novokh will be a splash and not a main course, you'll run the code in a 1cp detachment, two contenders for that vanguard and outrider. Vanguard gives you access to flayed ones and lychguard, but having to take three of them is kind of a drag. The better option I think would be outrider, grab a unit of wraiths (who get much more efficient with Novokh), two units of scarabs, and then add lychguard or flayed ones as suits your fancy.
That leaves us with two detachments to fill out, and since we need command points there has to be some kind of battalion. Choice of dynasty for this battalion is between three dynasties, Sautekh, Nephrek or Mephrit. Sautekh is in the running because of hyperlogic strategist will end up being an extra two or three CP, their code isn't bad on infantry, and warriors/immortals are the most likely to use their unique stratagem. Nephrek is on the list because teleporting durable obsec units 11" to capture/disrupt objectives is a good enough trick to build a list around, and placing units into deep strike reserve for a CP is also pretty hot. Mephrit is ok on it's own, but infantry are not likely to get into half range of units they want to get into half range of, so you'll take Mephrit to share Buffs and HQ abilities with the third detachment.
The third detachment is a no brainer, mephrit outrider. Destroyers and tomb blades are much too valuable to leave out of a list, and since they don't really benefit from the Novokh code, spinning them into their own detachment with a seperate code makes sense. Mephrit is the obvious winner here since you can expect fast units to get in close, and talent for annihilation is a solid damage boost.
what do you guys think, that seem like the correct outline for necron salad?
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
Honestly there's just so much I want to do, to be honest.
1. A Vanguard of Mephrit Deathmarks
2. Sautekh Spearhead with Stormlord buffing Heavy Destroyers
3. Nikhlakh Spearhead with DDAs 4. Novokh Scarabs and Wraiths and Flayed Ones
5. Nephrekh Tesla Immortals
Can't fit everything in though can I?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
... am I crazy for thinking a brigade might be possible?
Like, everyone's probably going to be taking a Battalion + 1 or 2 Detachments, right?
So if you go three units of 10 Immortals for the mandatory Batt Troop take you'd actually have your six units for Brig if you split those in half. Yes, not as survivable as full Immortal squads, but you'll be able to cover more ground.
If taking Batt + an additional detachment you'd already have a third HQ, so there's that Brig requirement filled, too.
Three Fast takes is easy to fill.
Three Heavy shouldn't be too hard (maybe 2 DDA + 1 Spyder for repairs).
That just leaves an Elite tax.
Cheapest take there is probably Flayed Ones, but I have a feeling Deathmarks might be more useful (counter deep strike & character sniping).
Granted, it might not have as much flavor as a Dynasty salad, but with 9+3 CP that's a hell of a lot of Strats you'll be able to throw around.
Grimgold wrote: So to expand on my last post, I wanted to cover the big change 8th ed will bring, salads.
Spoiler:
The most taken faction for a salad will undoubtedly be Novokh, the Dynasty code is great for certain units but you wouldn't want it on your whole army. It's a straight 22% upgrade for units hitting on 3s and a 25% upgrade for units hitting on 4s.
Since Novokh will be a splash and not a main course, you'll run the code in a 1cp detachment, two contenders for that vanguard and outrider. Vanguard gives you access to flayed ones and lychguard, but having to take three of them is kind of a drag. The better option I think would be outrider, grab a unit of wraiths (who get much more efficient with Novokh), two units of scarabs, and then add lychguard or flayed ones as suits your fancy.
That leaves us with two detachments to fill out, and since we need command points there has to be some kind of battalion. Choice of dynasty for this battalion is between three dynasties, Sautekh, Nephrek or Mephrit. Sautekh is in the running because of hyperlogic strategist will end up being an extra two or three CP, their code isn't bad on infantry, and warriors/immortals are the most likely to use their unique stratagem. Nephrek is on the list because teleporting durable obsec units 11" to capture/disrupt objectives is a good enough trick to build a list around, and placing units into deep strike reserve for a CP is also pretty hot. Mephrit is ok on it's own, but infantry are not likely to get into half range of units they want to get into half range of, so you'll take Mephrit to share Buffs and HQ abilities with the third detachment.
The third detachment is a no brainer, mephrit outrider. Destroyers and tomb blades are much too valuable to leave out of a list, and since they don't really benefit from the Novokh code, spinning them into their own detachment with a seperate code makes sense. Mephrit is the obvious winner here since you can expect fast units to get in close, and talent for annihilation is a solid damage boost.
what do you guys think, that seem like the correct outline for necron salad?
Rather than let our tomb ships pass in the night, let us engage! Parley! Confer! Converse!
I've been struggling with two main questions:
1.) Should we bring 2 detachments, or 3 detachments (7 CP vs. 8 CP ( +1 extra CP if you have Imotekh in there); and
2.) Is the Sautekh warlord trait of getting (on average) an extra 3-4 CP (you can even count the reroll as an additional CP if you want to be fancy : P ) worth taking in most competitive lists?
I guess if you combine or boil these two questions down you get "how important is getting an 1-4 extra CP in a Necron army" and "to what extent should we value CP over otherwise optimized (meaning based on variables other than CP) unit selections/armies."
Using CP for clutch re-rolls is pumpkin-spice-lattes basic - definitely not worth bringing dead-weight HQs or detachments over. But with the advent of our 8th edition stratagems, a whole new world of options has opened up to us. The super simple example of an exploding scarab finishing off a Primarch, super heavy, tank or enemy character with its 1 CP, d3 mortal wounds on a 2+ is getting more "worth it" / clutch. There are absolutely some new stratagems that are clearly worth their weight in Nihilakh-gold. The destroyer-centric stratagems -
Extermination Protocols – 1 CP – Destroyers re-roll hit & wound rolls one shooting phase
Translocation Crypt – 1 CP – Unit deepstrike @ end of movement phase (isn’t deployed)
allows a unit of destroyers crank up their damage output to 11 and to not be alpha strike'd off the board turn 1, respectively.
How do we quantify these stratagems in terms of points? Because ultimately that is what we need to accomplish if we want to make the most competitive lists. If the dynasty code or stratagem wins you the game by tabling your opponent, not allowing them to have as much return fire, eliminating a tough objective-scoring unit off the board or otherwise gaining you points they are clearly worth it.
Having that one extra CP and using it for Extermination Protocols might be worth the 100 - 150 point "dead weight" HQ tax that is required in creating an outrider detachment specifically for gaining CP; especially when combined with that detachment also giving you access to good dynasty specific stratagems or dynasty codes like some juicy Nephrekh crypt-strikes, fast-moving units, or Mephrit AP bonuses to the destroyers' already buffed firepower.
Even if we are able to quantify the usefulness of our stratagems and determine that it is "worth" paying a point-tax for or choosing slightly sub-optimal unit selections to fit in another detachment, the underlying question becomes "how do we make the most of those HQ & filler-unit selections so they pull the maximum amount of weight possible, despite our grumblings that we wish we just didn't have to bring them to get the bonuses we desire?" This is where the true art to list building lives and where creative list builders thrive.
A small example could be:
How to outfit a Nephrekh Outrider HQ choice if the primary purpose of the detachment is to get wicked fast scarabs and translocation crypt destroyers?
An Overlord cannot keep up with the destroyers for MWBD, and the destroyers don't really need the buff anyway. Even if the Overlord has Veil of Darkness, it cannot buff the destroyers the turn they deepstrike onto the battlefield so it seems pretty moot. Same with the Lord in that it hardly seems worth wasting the relic/veil use for the re-rolling ones to wound for the destroyers, especially since they will probably be using Extermination Protocols the turn they drop in and therefore the re-rolling of ones is useless since they are already re-rolling all missed hit & damage rolls, and you cannot re-roll a re-roll. A Cryptek would be great if it could provide them with an invuln, but again, it would have to waste the relic/veil to get up that close. Cloaktek seems good because it could quickly (especially with Nephrekh advancing) get up to them, but then since it brought the cloak it doesn't provide the 5+ invuln and instead just buffs RP a bit. All three of these options are also worthless for other non-Nephrekh detachments since their buffs are <Dynasty> specific.
I concluded that I would either bring a Cryptek and waste the Veil of Darkness use on turn 1 to provide the destroyers with the invuln & RP bonus (still felt like a waste / tax HQ), or I would bring Szeras as he is uniquely positioned to not care at all what detachment or dynasty he was brought in and can straight up hangout with infantry from any dynasty/detachment and buff them up (while also pew-pewing with his Eldritch Lance!).
I think this is an example of a solution that I am content with in that the HQ will still prove useful. Another alternative would be to consider adding some infantry to the Nephrekh dynasty so the detachment's Overlord, Lord or Cryptek could have some targets to buff.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
skoffs wrote: ... am I crazy for thinking a brigade might be possible?
Spoiler:
Like, everyone's probably going to be taking a Battalion + 1 or 2 Detachments, right?
So if you go three units of 10 Immortals for the mandatory Batt Troop take you'd actually have your six units for Brig if you split those in half. Yes, not as survivable as full Immortal squads, but you'll be able to cover more ground.
If taking Batt + an additional detachment you'd already have a third HQ, so there's that Brig requirement filled, too.
Three Fast takes is easy to fill.
Three Heavy shouldn't be too hard (maybe 2 DDA + 1 Spyder for repairs).
That just leaves an Elite tax.
Cheapest take there is probably Flayed Ones, but I have a feeling Deathmarks might be more useful (counter deep strike & character sniping).
Granted, it might not have as much flavor as a Dynasty salad, but with 9+3 CP that's a hell of a lot of Strats you'll be able to throw around.
I actually went through analysis on my own a couple of days ago and tried to decide the same thing - I concluded that it is potentially viable but probably not optimal, and certainly not as fun as seeking strength through diversity.
After reading through the beta codex I spent about an hour just looking back and forth at detachment options and unit selections.
A Brigade is absolutely possible but unless it is a SilverTide army, it either: 1.) forces more points into troops than we want; or 2.) forces us to take MSU instead of beefier, near-maxed sized units like we usually desire to force focus-fire in order to deny RP.
Additionally, the Elite & Troops ended up being the potential dead-weight or "tax" units but this by itself didn't make me dismiss the Brigade outright. Other than getting into the whole "How much do we value CP vs. optimal selections/points" question implicated by the above, my biggest turnoff for a Brigade was when I started asking "how much do we value CP vs. optimal dynasty codes, Warlord traits, and dynasty specific stratagems?"
Even when I was happy with the forced-unit selections like "having" to take lychguard, DDA, deathmarks/flayed ones etc. I found myself sad that these units wouldn't be benefiting from bonuses that would make them not just palatable selections but even downright worth it. If the Brigade is Mephrit, and I took the elite tax Lychguard, they do not get to benefit from Novokh's amazing dynasty code. Neither do the flayed ones, and the Destroyers don't get to use translocation crypt and the wraiths and scarabs don't get an auto 6" super-advance. In my eyes the army becomes more boring and arguably each unit is going to be watered down unless they are the chosen few who happen to optimally benefit from the Brigade's Dynasty.
The thought experiment of a Necron Brigade might actually prove to be a very useful Reductio ad absurdum argument to help theory-out how 'worth it' CP are.
A Brigade makes it more extreme. A Brigade provides ("challenge accepted" for anyone out there who wants it) the maximum amount of CP for the least amount of points. It likely provides an extra 3 CP over any other similarly out-fitted or same-point army.
In exchange for those CP, you were forced to take a true variety of units, and they are all stuck with using the same dynasty code and losing access to some of the strongest stratagems, relics & warlord traits that Necrons have access to in the other 4 Dynasties.
In my brain I'm imagining:
Brigade - 12 CP - Mephrit. Brings a balanced army with a variety of selections, many of which don't benefit from the Mephrit code
v.
7 CP Total
Battalion - Mephrit - brings the same units as the above Brigade (immortals, DDA, destroyers, TBs etc.), minus all the melee focused units.
Outrider - Novokh - brings the same units as the above Brigade (lynchguard, flayed ones, wraiths, scarabs, overlord with veil) minus all the shooting focused units.
In exchange for 5 CP, you lose a dynasty code, dynasty specific stratagems & relics that could potentially make 1/4th to 1/2th your army significantly stronger.
If you had the Battalion as Sautekh, the CP discrepancy would likely be more like 2-4 CP instead of 5 CP. Obviously if you break it out into 3 detachments, you get even more effectiveness and granularity through options and strength through diversity, in addition to closing the CP gap a little bit further, but you might start facing some tax depreciation in terms of HQ points (3 standard detachments including 1 battalion usually means 4 HQs).
At the end of the day, a Brigade felt like trading in the majority of our new toys in exchange for a handful of extra CP, and out-the-door it still has some bloat/tax problems of being forced to take selections or take MSU when we normally wouldn't want to.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/03/22 07:33:05
Cloaktek
3x Scarabs
6x Destroyers
9x Tesla Tomb Blades
750-ish points.
A lot of mobile firepower with a screen and a support character. You could put the Destroyers and Tomb Blades(Edit: Nope!) in Translocation Crypt deployment (2 units in reserve + 2 on the board). 2 of these detachments with a minimal 3x 5 Immortal battalion would give a list with a lot of MSU units for board control and 4 nasty deep striking shooters.
Sautekh Spearhead:
Cloaktek
Anni Barge + GC Anni Barge + GC Anni Barge + GC DDA DDA
900 odd points. All the vehicles get some benefit from the Sautekh code as they have heavy weapons. The ABs can make good use of Methodical Destruction too: shoot one of the Gauss cannons at a unit to trigger the strat then you get 24 destructor shots with extra hits on 5s and 6s. A nice way to get the WL trait we all want.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 11:52:37
Grimgold wrote: So to expand on my last post, I wanted to cover the big change 8th ed will bring, salads. The most taken faction for a salad will undoubtedly be Novokh, the Dynasty code is great for certain units but you wouldn't want it on your whole army. It's a straight 22% upgrade for units hitting on 3s and a 25% upgrade for units hitting on 4s.
Since Novokh will be a splash and not a main course, you'll run the code in a 1cp detachment, two contenders for that vanguard and outrider. Vanguard gives you access to flayed ones and lychguard, but having to take three of them is kind of a drag. The better option I think would be outrider, grab a unit of wraiths (who get much more efficient with Novokh), two units of scarabs, and then add lychguard or flayed ones as suits your fancy.
That leaves us with two detachments to fill out, and since we need command points there has to be some kind of battalion. Choice of dynasty for this battalion is between three dynasties, Sautekh, Nephrek or Mephrit. Sautekh is in the running because of hyperlogic strategist will end up being an extra two or three CP, their code isn't bad on infantry, and warriors/immortals are the most likely to use their unique stratagem. Nephrek is on the list because teleporting durable obsec units 11" to capture/disrupt objectives is a good enough trick to build a list around, and placing units into deep strike reserve for a CP is also pretty hot. Mephrit is ok on it's own, but infantry are not likely to get into half range of units they want to get into half range of, so you'll take Mephrit to share Buffs and HQ abilities with the third detachment.
The third detachment is a no brainer, mephrit outrider. Destroyers and tomb blades are much too valuable to leave out of a list, and since they don't really benefit from the Novokh code, spinning them into their own detachment with a seperate code makes sense. Mephrit is the obvious winner here since you can expect fast units to get in close, and talent for annihilation is a solid damage boost.
what do you guys think, that seem like the correct outline for necron salad?
If by upgrade you mean increase in percentage of the final wounds inflicted on the target, then the bonus is actually bigger than that.
We discussed about ccb merphit sniper and ctan sniper power for lov wound char. What about deathmarks? They are cheaper, have infrantry keyword, deep strike and can counter opponent deepstrike. Its means more flexible.
The cheapest brigade cost about 1400 pts so it can work only for 2000 limit.
We also discussed about GEQ counter. In my mathammer MVBD immo and shield tb, both tessla, win with GEQ on 12-24" range. Have GEQ any posibility to move 12" and full fire? If not it was our answer for GEQ. Keep distance and a lot of tessla.
Kuguar6 wrote: We discussed about ccb merphit sniper and ctan sniper power for lov wound char. What about deathmarks? They are cheaper, have infrantry keyword, deep strike and can counter opponent deepstrike.
Why not both? The Mephrit Snipe-barge can soften up the target before the Deathmarks finish him. Mephrit dynasty is perfect for both of them as well; the Deathmarks obviously benefit from it.
And the Snipe-barge gets increased range with the Mephrit warlord trait, thus more half-range for the extra ap.
The problem for this to fully work is that it takes a relic (the Mephrit Staff of Light) and a warlord trait (Mephrit). Is that worth it?
So it's all Destroyers - Wraiths right now. Agree they are strong, a pitty i have all models but these two.... :(
What else do we have?
I was computing Pretorains against wraith.
On one side i have 6 Wraith + whip coil, i'll have a cryptek with a cape following and on both sides i'll add C'tan the Nightbringer cause i think he add a cool punch, following the wraiths and targeting key HQs.
634pts. you get 6*3 attacks S6 Ap-2 Dmg2. 18 wounds with a 3++ save. You'll need to spend 2CP to RP those guys though.
On the other side i'll get 10 pretorians+voidblade + pistol, followed by Anraky since he gives +1A to infantry and is the only one to be able to boost faction-less pretorains. I'll add the same C'tan Nightbringer.
Thats 697pts for you, close, but the HQ costs almost double than the Cryptek. If Anraky is close from the pretorian (which will happen most of the time except on charge turn when the pretorians go out ahead) you get 10*4 attacks, S5 ap-3 Dmg1 + a S6 pistol. You can spend your 2CP on other stratagem, mainly for comparison purpose 1CP to reroll RP of 1s, so that both RP are comparable even without cryptek here.
I think both are more or less equivalent. Both move 10'' and fly or go through obstacle. At least pretorians can take out flyers in close combat (which i did in 3 games under the index cost, so it does happen).
Pretorians can deal a huge amount of attacks, 40, compared to the 18 for the wraiths (not counting pistols, which the wraith can have too if you go that route). AP is a tad higher too, not that it makes a big difference most of the time. But that's still 16% more wounds for 4+ save and better.
You can MWBD pretorians, and they also have their +1 to hit own stratagem.
Wraith though could shoot with their heavy weapon before charging adding more punch.
Wraith of course deal 2DMG to those they wound, making potential 36 wounds vs 40 wound for the pretorians.
Wraith are more survivable, having effective 30 wounds vs 20 for pretorians. Not that it will make a huge difference against ennemies dealling D3+ wounds.
I conclude that even if people are all wraith right now, pretorians can be a viable option. Mainly used against high numer/1 wound targets cause they pump out way more attacks.
Cloaktek
3x Scarabs
6x Destroyers
9x Tesla Tomb Blades
750-ish points.
A lot of mobile firepower with a screen and a support character. You could put the Destroyers and Tomb Blades(Edit: Nope!) in Translocation Crypt deployment (2 units in reserve + 2 on the board). 2 of these detachments with a minimal 3x 5 Immortal battalion would give a list with a lot of MSU units for board control and 4 nasty deep striking shooters.
Oooh! I had the exact same set-up on my drawing board. Great minds and all that. I was thinking Mephrit though, because they will often be mobile enough to get into that bonus range. Makes their weapons even nastier. My only issue then is that I want the Cloaktek to buff the Destroyers, but will likely want to Deep Strike them via Translocation. So getting that Cloaktek up to them to benefit might be tough and maybe not worth it and he may struggle to keep up with the TBs.
BUT! I love the idea nevertheless. I think it is a strong option.
Grimgold wrote: So to expand on my last post, I wanted to cover the big change 8th ed will bring, salads. The most taken faction for a salad will undoubtedly be Novokh, the Dynasty code is great for certain units but you wouldn't want it on your whole army. It's a straight 22% upgrade for units hitting on 3s and a 25% upgrade for units hitting on 4s.
Since Novokh will be a splash and not a main course, you'll run the code in a 1cp detachment, two contenders for that vanguard and outrider. Vanguard gives you access to flayed ones and lychguard, but having to take three of them is kind of a drag. The better option I think would be outrider, grab a unit of wraiths (who get much more efficient with Novokh), two units of scarabs, and then add lychguard or flayed ones as suits your fancy.
That leaves us with two detachments to fill out, and since we need command points there has to be some kind of battalion. Choice of dynasty for this battalion is between three dynasties, Sautekh, Nephrek or Mephrit. Sautekh is in the running because of hyperlogic strategist will end up being an extra two or three CP, their code isn't bad on infantry, and warriors/immortals are the most likely to use their unique stratagem. Nephrek is on the list because teleporting durable obsec units 11" to capture/disrupt objectives is a good enough trick to build a list around, and placing units into deep strike reserve for a CP is also pretty hot. Mephrit is ok on it's own, but infantry are not likely to get into half range of units they want to get into half range of, so you'll take Mephrit to share Buffs and HQ abilities with the third detachment.
The third detachment is a no brainer, mephrit outrider. Destroyers and tomb blades are much too valuable to leave out of a list, and since they don't really benefit from the Novokh code, spinning them into their own detachment with a seperate code makes sense. Mephrit is the obvious winner here since you can expect fast units to get in close, and talent for annihilation is a solid damage boost.
what do you guys think, that seem like the correct outline for necron salad?
The more I think about it, the more I think that this is going to be correct. Hyperlogic Strategy is pretty hard to pass up, and the Sautekh code is pretty good if you put your heavy support into the battalion. Mephrit and Novokh Are also pretty much custom built for the detachments you outlined. I think the key use of stratagems are going to be very important, they have all shown to be pretty powerful.
Da W wrote: So it's all Destroyers - Wraiths right now. Agree they are strong, a pitty i have all models but these two.... :(
What else do we have?
I was computing Pretorains against wraith.
On one side i have 6 Wraith + whip coil, i'll have a cryptek with a cape following and on both sides i'll add C'tan the Nightbringer cause i think he add a cool punch, following the wraiths and targeting key HQs.
634pts. you get 6*3 attacks S6 Ap-2 Dmg2. 18 wounds with a 3++ save. You'll need to spend 2CP to RP those guys though.
On the other side i'll get 10 pretorians+voidblade + pistol, followed by Anraky since he gives +1A to infantry and is the only one to be able to boost faction-less pretorains. I'll add the same C'tan Nightbringer.
Thats 697pts for you, close, but the HQ costs almost double than the Cryptek. If Anraky is close from the pretorian (which will happen most of the time except on charge turn when the pretorians go out ahead) you get 10*4 attacks, S5 ap-3 Dmg1 + a S6 pistol. You can spend your 2CP on other stratagem, mainly for comparison purpose 1CP to reroll RP of 1s, so that both RP are comparable even without cryptek here.
I think both are more or less equivalent. Both move 10'' and fly or go through obstacle. At least pretorians can take out flyers in close combat (which i did in 3 games under the index cost, so it does happen).
Pretorians can deal a huge amount of attacks, 40, compared to the 18 for the wraiths (not counting pistols, which the wraith can have too if you go that route). AP is a tad higher too, not that it makes a big difference most of the time. But that's still 16% more wounds for 4+ save and better.
You can MWBD pretorians, and they also have their +1 to hit own stratagem.
Wraith though could shoot with their heavy weapon before charging adding more punch.
Wraith of course deal 2DMG to those they wound, making potential 36 wounds vs 40 wound for the pretorians.
Wraith are more survivable, having effective 30 wounds vs 20 for pretorians. Not that it will make a huge difference against ennemies dealling D3+ wounds.
I conclude that even if people are all wraith right now, pretorians can be a viable option. Mainly used against high numer/1 wound targets cause they pump out way more attacks.
I hadn't done any Mathhammer on it yet, but I wanted to specifically comment on the Voidblades with Anrakyr thing.
If he is around, you're probably better off with the Rods instead. Yeah it's one less attack, but 3 vs 4 is still good with those stats, and more importantly you get your pretty good shooting attack as well.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Any other new units coming our way outside the new cryptek model? I would love to see plastic flayed ones. The resin kits are frustrating to deal with and that is when I am doing one-off characters. Building 20 infantry that way (at $180 no less) would drive me nuts.
Morris782 wrote: Any other new units coming our way outside the new cryptek model? I would love to see plastic flayed ones. The resin kits are frustrating to deal with and that is when I am doing one-off characters. Building 20 infantry that way (at $180 no less) would drive me nuts.
Make your own from plastic warriors. Find some nice convers in net.
I don't see that Mephrit has much to offer Destroyers. They're already AP-3. And it's going to be hard to get them into half range of anything good if you're deploying them on the table. Nephrek seems like easily the best place for them because they so badly want to deep strike.
Dionysodorus wrote: I don't see that Mephrit has much to offer Destroyers. They're already AP-3. And it's going to be hard to get them into half range of anything good if you're deploying them on the table. Nephrek seems like easily the best place for them because they so badly want to deep strike.
Oh, yeah. Good point. Forgot that Translocation was Nephrekh exclusive. That is more important than pretty much anything, so they don't eat an alpha strike and can make theirs.
Dionysodorus wrote: I don't see that Mephrit has much to offer Destroyers. They're already AP-3. And it's going to be hard to get them into half range of anything good if you're deploying them on the table. Nephrek seems like easily the best place for them because they so badly want to deep strike.
I'm a big fan of Talent for annihilation, and it could work well for Tomb Blades as well. I can see the benefit of a single detachment for that with Mephrit.
Hmmm, was considering making dynasty notes for myself as quicky reference for building armies.
ie - What dynasty codes work with 'X' unit. Either just flat out 'there is no better option' or 'primarily use X but if using them for this use Y or Z.'
I want to say Mephrit will be the more or less go to on Deathmarks, if only cause they're a rapid firing weapon with 0 ap.
Though for some reason I keep looking at Sautekh and Nephrek. Is it my imagination or would Sautekh be the more long standing 'continue to pursue and still cause damage' useage of DM's making them a Harrying unit. Plus if in a Sautekh infantry build they might occassionally be in range for a MWBD as the match goes on.
Where as Nephrek would be the 'quick reposition!' use of Dm's that are mostly there as either a trap or bait but they're stuck not shooting any round they advance to do this though so it kind of sticks in my teeth a little....
Any suggestions/advice on playing with DM's and these Dynasty codes?
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
If by upgrade you mean increase in percentage of the final wounds inflicted on the target, then the bonus is actually bigger than that.
We are talking +33% for 3+ and +50% for 4+.
Did I get that wrong, let see 3+ would be 1/3 * 2/3 = (2/9)/(2/3) = 33%, yup looks like I stopped one step short there and gave the percent chance of getting an extra hit rather than the percent increase in effectiveness.
As for nephrek for the second outrider, I can see that, start with tomb blades on the board and deep strike the destroyers, go for the same dynasty code in the battalion. Warlord trait is probably a write off though, so you'll grab Immortal Pride as that's the best of the rest. Also no damage boosting stratagems, but without access to a CP saving warlord trait you'll probably want to be sparring on such anyway.
Edit - also tomorrow will be where the rubber meets the road as far as the leaks are concerned. I suspect that nobody was given the complete codex, because in the leak there were a lot of things that seem conspicuously unaltered. One of those units is the doom scythe, and tomorrows preview will cover the doom scythe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 16:40:18
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
It was also a bit strategically tone deaf to the current meta and the way the current rules work.
To maintain a 4” no-man’s land around an 8”x4” model, you need a monumental number of Lychguard... which will be dead points when your opponent logically “attacks where you’re not.”
Today's article also proves that Lychguard w/ Sword n Board are still a 4++. If they don't get a massive points decrease I don't see anyone using them. When you compare them to Wraiths there is almost no reason to take them.
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sieGermans wrote: It was also a bit strategically tone deaf to the current meta and the way the current rules work.
To maintain a 4” no-man’s land around an 8”x4” model, you need a monumental number of Lychguard... which will be dead points when your opponent logically “attacks where you’re not.”
Let alone if you want your Lychguard to have a 2++ invul and to reflect damage on natural saves of 6s you are spending 4CPs just to give them a 1 turn buff. That is nearly half our CPs gone just to make them "tankier".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 17:47:58
I don't think they will get a +1 to strength though, as then what's the point of taking scythes? You'll lost 1 pen and 1 damage with the sword, but you will get access to an invul and a pretty neat stratagem, which would probably be better for lychguard in the long run.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
~1660