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2018/04/08 20:30:30
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Werekill wrote: So the Deceiver is definitely good, no question there. It either sets up nasty positioning turn 1 or does the normal C'tan shard thing of pumping out mortal wounds otherwise.
But what are the best units we can warp in with the Deceiver? Besides just building around monolith/Zahndrekh warp in shenanigans for a going-first alpha. I mean other scenarios, where you build a more resilient list that sometimes gets to go first.
Anything that rapids fire. I wouldn't teleport my best stuff so near the ennemy. You want something reliable, resistant that will make half the enemy army turn back. Like.... 40 warriors + a ghost ark?? Drop in some deathmark for good measures.
But, if you don't plan on using the Deceiver trick, i find Nightbringer better in almost every way. 215pts that will kill double his value easily.
2018/04/08 21:14:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Tyr13 wrote: Sure it can benefit from a code. You just need to take it either as part of a command detachment, or with some other super heavies. Like a Tesseract Vault or two. Works just like Guard superheavies, no?
Like i said in my post. Super heavy aux doesnt get codes. The list being referenced had a super heavy aux. I never said it could never get codes. Just that his didnt.
The fact it does get strats but no codes is a bit bizzare. Do any other codex have this restriction? I know nids,craftworld,drukhari,admech dont have that line in there.
2018/04/08 22:01:17
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Doctoralex wrote: Had a multiplayer today. Won't go too much into detail but....
14 Novokh Flayed Ones attacked a squad of Grey Knight Terminators..... thats 42 attacks, re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound.
......3 wounds dealt.....
I decide *feth this*, fall the Flayed ones back and Veil a squad of 10 Gauss Immortals nearby. Deals 7 wounds ><
AP is just too important. That's why I'll pretty much always stick with Mephrit.
Have you tried using wraiths or lychguard? Sounds like you were using the wrong tools for the job. Flayed Ones are anti-light infantry or single wound heavies. Not multi-wound heavy infantry like terminators.
Ditto for gauss blasters.
If you want to efficiently kill terminators, take wraiths (they deal 2D now), scythguard or destroyers.
What I have
~4100
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A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/04/09 01:03:09
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Tyr13 wrote: Sure it can benefit from a code. You just need to take it either as part of a command detachment, or with some other super heavies. Like a Tesseract Vault or two. Works just like Guard superheavies, no?
Like i said in my post. Super heavy aux doesnt get codes. The list being referenced had a super heavy aux. I never said it could never get codes. Just that his didnt.
The fact it does get strats but no codes is a bit bizzare. Do any other codex have this restriction? I know nids,craftworld,drukhari,admech dont have that line in there.
I know. And yes, Imperial Guard have that same restriction. It seems like they limited it to lists that have an in-codex super-heavy. The way to avoid it is to take a super-heavy in a command detachment or in a super heavy detachment. For most purposes, a command detachment is going to be simplest.
And I didnt realise that you said that only in reference to a specific list, I understood it as a general thing, sorry.
2018/04/09 03:20:51
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
skoffs wrote: let's talk Nephrekh Outriders.
It's almost obligatory for each list now to have the deep striking 6 Destroyers + two 3x Scarabs.
I’m not sure I follow how this is obligatory?
What is your specific target for the destroyer squad that you absolutely need to shove 100+ points into an HQ tax so badly to shoehorn them in that way?
Ah, yes, my mistake. That should have been in regards to TAC lists.
The surprise leaf blowers are just too good (imho) to leave out of my lists now.
Yes, you could spend a CP to avoid having to give them an HQ, but then you'd have to decide which is more valuable to you: CP or points
2018/04/09 04:04:56
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
But let's talk Nephrekh Outriders.
It's almost obligatory for each list now to have the deep striking 6 Destroyers + two 3x Scarabs.
But what HQ is everyone assigning to this detachment?
...
What's everyone else taking for them and why?
I've been running Cryptek(Veil) + Destroyerx6 + Destroyerx6 + Scarabsx3.
The idea is that one of the destroyers has the option to start deployed then get Veiled with the Cryptek to wherever you need it to fight. The other destroyer squad comes in via stratagem when needed.
I know that it doubles up on destroyers, but even without the stratagem they're still our most efficient shooting, and they're 18 wounds of 2+/5++ in cover, with RP covering them.
Edit: I should mention that the bulk of my points is Destroyers + Novokh Wraiths. If I were running big Mephrit blobs, they'd be better suited taking the veil.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/09 04:34:58
2018/04/09 04:24:15
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
But let's talk Nephrekh Outriders.
It's almost obligatory for each list now to have the deep striking 6 Destroyers + two 3x Scarabs.
But what HQ is everyone assigning to this detachment?
...
What's everyone else taking for them and why?
I've been running Cryptek(Orb+Veil) + Destroyerx6 + Destroyerx6 + Scarabsx3.
The idea is that one of the destroyers has the option to start deployed then get Veiled with the Cryptek to wherever you need it to fight. The other destroyer squad comes in via stratagem when needed.
I know that it doubles up on destroyers, but even without the stratagem they're still our most efficient shooting, and they're 18 wounds of 2+/5++ in cover, with RP covering them.
Edit: I should mention that the bulk of my points is Destroyers + Novokh Wraiths. If I were running big Mephrit blobs, they'd be better suited taking the veil.
Crypteks can't take Orbs?
2018/04/09 04:34:39
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Why Nihilakh?
Yes, the DDA will benefit from it, but everything else is going to need to be moving.
If you went Nephrekh at least everything would be relatively fast (plus the deep strike Destroyers).
2018/04/09 05:41:57
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Why Nihilakh?
Yes, the DDA will benefit from it, but everything else is going to need to be moving.
If you went Nephrekh at least everything would be relatively fast (plus the deep strike Destroyers).
Nephrekh was my 1st choice but then I thought of the Reavers moving 18, advancing 8 and being able to charge if in a specific Wych cult. I'm also playing on a 4x4. So, he will be able to charge me turn 1 with his Reavers (if he brings them) and Hellions all on his 1st turn plus I think he is bringing Venoms and a Raider.
I think a more defensive approach is needed for Dark Eldar with how fast they can move these days. Have my DDA and Destroyers at the back Field, I'mmortals Cryptek buffing everything it can, warriors out front. The Scarabs absorb charges. I don't even think i could even move around the board with his movement.
Maybe Sautekh might be good? I can advance, still shoot but also have the movement.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, just came to my head. If I use the Scarabs as the chaff then everything gets to re-roll ones if I don't move. 16 Warriors, 9 I'mmortals, DDA (Gauss arrays) and Cryptek all re-rolling 1s to hits should be reliable enough to Destroyer what charges or is in front of me.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/04/09 05:48:59
Why Nihilakh?
Yes, the DDA will benefit from it, but everything else is going to need to be moving.
If you went Nephrekh at least everything would be relatively fast (plus the deep strike Destroyers).
Nephrekh was my 1st choice but then I thought of the Reavers moving 18, advancing 8 and being able to charge if in a specific Wych cult. I'm also playing on a 4x4. So, he will be able to charge me turn 1 with his Reavers (if he brings them) and Hellions all on his 1st turn plus I think he is bringing Venoms and a Raider.
I think a more defensive approach is needed for Dark Eldar with how fast they can move these days. Have my DDA and Destroyers at the back Field, I'mmortals Cryptek buffing everything it can, warriors out front. The Scarabs absorb charges. I don't even think i could even move around the board with his movement.
Maybe Sautekh might be good? I can advance, still shoot but also have the movement.
Scarabs work particularly well against DE because their best horde clearing weapons (poison) are wounding them on 4s. You do very much need some decent melee despite playing defensively due to how difficult it is to charge/movement block reavers without layers upon layers of scarabs, so I'd suggest including a few nephrekh wraiths that stay back to avoid the reaver's mortal wounds on charging so you can advance and charge in the wraiths to mulch through them as even though the reavers will get up to STR6 with 2 wounds the wraiths are still a great match. lots of tesla is also very much your friend in this as it works particularly well in overwatch as all your hits count as 3, and most of their armour saves are 4+ or worse.
If he is playing talos', BE VERY CAREFUL around them, they put out a metric feth tonne of damage to your vehicles and multiwound models while still being tough to kill since if you're playing them you are definitely using the +1 invul faction giving them a 4+. If you see them, run, and put your D arks and destroyers into them.
I'd also maybe swap out the d ark, if you math it out, unless you're somehow in range with the flayers without moving, regular destroyers and even just tesla tomb blades are outperforming it (Tesla tomb blades not so much but they will usually put out more damage, just less when your dice are hot). So if you have them I would recommend just grabbing some more destroyers since DE are pretty much all T6 anyway.
2018/04/09 06:26:23
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
I've been running Cryptek(Veil) + Destroyerx6 + Destroyerx6 + Scarabsx3.
The idea is that one of the destroyers has the option to start deployed then get Veiled with the Cryptek to wherever you need it to fight. The other destroyer squad comes in via stratagem when needed.
If you wanted more offensive output, could probably replace Cryptek with a D.Lord (still with Veil taking Destroyer unit).
That way if they're both on the table one unit can use Extermination Strat and the other at least gets to reroll 1s for everything.
2018/04/09 08:51:10
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Yesterday was in a local tournament which had 4 Necron players out of 20,
Came join 5th with the list in my sig. The guy who tabled me also joined me at 5th lol (not much i can do against 180 orc boys with da jumps into my face. though did get him down to about 30 or so)
Guy who came first, was also Necrons. Using 3 DDA, 17 Destroyers and 6 Wraiths. was a brutal list to be fair. though dont think mephit benefited the destroyers much imo.
Scarabs work particularly well against DE because their best horde clearing weapons (poison) are wounding them on 4s. You do very much need some decent melee despite playing defensively due to how difficult it is to charge/movement block reavers without layers upon layers of scarabs, so I'd suggest including a few nephrekh wraiths that stay back to avoid the reaver's mortal wounds on charging so you can advance and charge in the wraiths to mulch through them as even though the reavers will get up to STR6 with 2 wounds the wraiths are still a great match. lots of tesla is also very much your friend in this as it works particularly well in overwatch as all your hits count as 3, and most of their armour saves are 4+ or worse.
If he is playing talos', BE VERY CAREFUL around them, they put out a metric feth tonne of damage to your vehicles and multiwound models while still being tough to kill since if you're playing them you are definitely using the +1 invul faction giving them a 4+. If you see them, run, and put your D arks and destroyers into them.
I'd also maybe swap out the d ark, if you math it out, unless you're somehow in range with the flayers without moving, regular destroyers and even just tesla tomb blades are outperforming it (Tesla tomb blades not so much but they will usually put out more damage, just less when your dice are hot). So if you have them I would recommend just grabbing some more destroyers since DE are pretty much all T6 anyway.
Appreciate the recommendation. Do you think this list is any better?
Scarabs work particularly well against DE because their best horde clearing weapons (poison) are wounding them on 4s. You do very much need some decent melee despite playing defensively due to how difficult it is to charge/movement block reavers without layers upon layers of scarabs, so I'd suggest including a few nephrekh wraiths that stay back to avoid the reaver's mortal wounds on charging so you can advance and charge in the wraiths to mulch through them as even though the reavers will get up to STR6 with 2 wounds the wraiths are still a great match. lots of tesla is also very much your friend in this as it works particularly well in overwatch as all your hits count as 3, and most of their armour saves are 4+ or worse.
If he is playing talos', BE VERY CAREFUL around them, they put out a metric feth tonne of damage to your vehicles and multiwound models while still being tough to kill since if you're playing them you are definitely using the +1 invul faction giving them a 4+. If you see them, run, and put your D arks and destroyers into them.
I'd also maybe swap out the d ark, if you math it out, unless you're somehow in range with the flayers without moving, regular destroyers and even just tesla tomb blades are outperforming it (Tesla tomb blades not so much but they will usually put out more damage, just less when your dice are hot). So if you have them I would recommend just grabbing some more destroyers since DE are pretty much all T6 anyway.
Appreciate the recommendation. Do you think this list is any better?
Yeah I think this would do much better against DE, For the CCB I would suggest just running a regular overlord with a warscythe since he can move 11" anyway with nephrekh, I would probably swap out the immortals for warriors if you have them and use the extra points saved from swapping the barge to fill it out. Reanimation is very powerful in smaller point games since they have a higher chance to survive a turn. This change also provides some more chaff to keep your destroyers and wraiths safe first turn. I would also give the overlord immortal pride and possibly even the +1 res orb if you cant find the points for a cryptek, otherwise take veil of darkness as the relic.
One thing to keep in mind with nephrekh, you can deep strike your destroyers for 1cp if you want to keep them safe, if you didn't want them across the board (which you probably dont since it's only 4x4) then you can leave a gap that through a thick chaff in front, can't be reached and filled in with enemy units, so you can plop them in and have them completely protected from an alpha strike. Although with only 4cp to use this will be determined heavily by how lethal an alpha strike they have, if not much then just deploy them behind your scarabs and warriors.
2018/04/09 13:25:55
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Hey dudes and dudettes, I have come up with a 1000pt list after all your awesome advice you've given me. Probably still not the best list of all time but it seems fun. What do you guys think?
Spoiler:
HQ - Cryptek w/ cloak (I know the other thing is better but I prefer the model)
TROOP
- 10x Gauss Immortals
- 13x Warriors
FAST ATTACK
- 6x Scarabs
- 3x Wraiths
- 3x Destroyers
HEAVY SUPPORT
- DDA
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/09 13:26:49
2018/04/09 13:38:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
It's possible to divide 6 Scarabs into two 3 model units (more flexible) or do You want to keep unit number low? Those buggers agre great to block charges or score objectives in hidding (low profile).
2018/04/09 14:03:09
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Xyxel wrote: It's possible to divide 6 Scarabs into two 3 model units (more flexible) or do You want to keep unit number low? Those buggers agre great to block charges or score objectives in hidding (low profile).
There are advantages or disadvantages to both. Depending on what you need you should pick one or the other.
Also 6 models would let you reanimate them more effectively, best case using the stratagem with only one model left, giving you 5 dice.
2018/04/09 15:01:29
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Xyxel wrote: It's possible to divide 6 Scarabs into two 3 model units (more flexible) or do You want to keep unit number low? Those buggers agre great to block charges or score objectives in hidding (low profile).
There are advantages or disadvantages to both. Depending on what you need you should pick one or the other.
Also 6 models would let you reanimate them more effectively, best case using the stratagem with only one model left, giving you 5 dice.
...Please don't use Repair Subroutines on scarabs. I don't think you should use the stratagem at all, but in your situation you're unlikely to get more than 13 points back out of your 2 CP.
2018/04/09 15:21:34
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Ok. I just realized this for Nephrekh Translocation Beams "if a unit with this code advances, its models can move across MODELS and terrain as if they were not there."
This means you can effectively move and advance THROUGH a screen to lockup the big guns in the back. If you have slower stuff that charges the screen they cant fall back because you have your other guys behind them, effectively sandwhiching them. Being able to shut down screens/body block seems very interesting. Anyone used the phase through method with success?
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Xyxel wrote: It's possible to divide 6 Scarabs into two 3 model units (more flexible) or do You want to keep unit number low? Those buggers agre great to block charges or score objectives in hidding (low profile).
There are advantages or disadvantages to both. Depending on what you need you should pick one or the other.
Also 6 models would let you reanimate them more effectively, best case using the stratagem with only one model left, giving you 5 dice.
...Please don't use Repair Subroutines on scarabs. I don't think you should use the stratagem at all, but in your situation you're unlikely to get more than 13 points back out of your 2 CP.
Completely agree, the only time i would use this stratagem is on my first turn, if my opponent shot my wraiths till the last one or two. (as i keep my cryptek with them for this reason)
Tomb Blades [10 PL, 210pts] . Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/04/09 15:42:47
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Hi guys, here is my revised second option 1000 points TaC list for a to a tournament by the end of the month. Limit of 2 detachments, playing Eternal War Missions.
The plan with the above list is to drop on the opponent's face, disrupt his plan by killing his characters (between lord and Deathmarks I should be able to snipe one or two) and then let the destroyers do their work from behind the Immortal line.
I played 2 games with tyhem this weekend, but decided to change the list. My first iteration had a bunch of cheap Tomb Blades instead of the Immortals, but playing on a 4x4 does diminish the value of their mobility and I really missed the firepower of the Gauss Immortals on both of the games I played. On one of them I had Mortarion charge me with 1 wound remaining and proceed to wipe my destroyer squad on T3. I also switched out the Heavy Destroyer for a regular one.
My other contender list is still untested by me and consists of:
Spoiler:
Mephrit Battalion Szeras (trait: Immortal Pride, eldritch lance) Lord (Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light) Deceiver 20x Warriors 10x Immortas (Gauss) 5x Immortals (Tesla) 3x Scarabs
6 CPs
The lord allows everyone a re-roll on wounds and the entire force just drops in your face. Losing initiative is not so bad as we just deny flanks with the Deceiver then, likely bringing the enemy away from an objective on multi-objective missions.
I'm still undecided what to settle in for and I still need to test the latter list.
tl;dr - Little success with Nephrek Particle Beamer TBs at 1k points, table is small enough the added mobility doesn't pay off the lost firepower. - Destroyers are amazing with their DS and Re-roll everything Strat, especially against high-T multi-wound targets such as Mortarion. - Still undecided if I go Char assassin outrider or Deceiver silver-tide at 1k tourny.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/09 15:44:03
Deathmarks don't actually kill Characters that well. They're either going to be bubble wrapped so you'll never get in Rapid Fire range, or they'll have good enough saves that you need way more Deathmarks. They're better suited for killing backfield weapon teams or dropping onto objectives.
2018/04/09 15:52:53
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Dynas wrote: Ok. I just realized this for Nephrekh Translocation Beams "if a unit with this code advances, its models can move across MODELS and terrain as if they were not there."
This means you can effectively move and advance THROUGH a screen to lockup the big guns in the back. If you have slower stuff that charges the screen they cant fall back because you have your other guys behind them, effectively sandwhiching them. Being able to shut down screens/body block seems very interesting. Anyone used the phase through method with success?
You can not. As far as I know you cant charge after advancing. Except with wraiths who can do this trick anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BUT
you can jumpf through screens and shoot characters close if poorly positioned.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/09 15:57:13
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult
7.000
2018/04/09 16:17:29
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Doctoralex wrote: Had a multiplayer today. Won't go too much into detail but....
14 Novokh Flayed Ones attacked a squad of Grey Knight Terminators..... thats 42 attacks, re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound.
......3 wounds dealt.....
I decide *feth this*, fall the Flayed ones back and Veil a squad of 10 Gauss Immortals nearby. Deals 7 wounds ><
AP is just too important. That's why I'll pretty much always stick with Mephrit.
Have you tried using wraiths or lychguard? Sounds like you were using the wrong tools for the job. Flayed Ones are anti-light infantry or single wound heavies. Not multi-wound heavy infantry like terminators.
Ditto for gauss blasters.
If you want to efficiently kill terminators, take wraiths (they deal 2D now), scythguard or destroyers.
Mephrit won't cure mismatch.
Any list got to be able to deal with msu, swarms, high armor, multiple wound and high HP.
All else being equal, if you land more shots (with a moving Sautekh for example), you're gonna wound more. Of course hitting armor 2+ with AP0 weapons won't work well.
2018/04/09 16:21:19
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
stormcraft wrote: I think both Flyers are bad because they are way to easy to kill.
12 T6 3+ wounds will drop exremely easy.
My Fireraptor is 14 T7 3+ wound and can get a 5++ oder 5+++ depending on the list, and still drops regularly on T1.
Second, compare the firepower between a DoomSycthe and a Doomsday Ark:
W3 Shots S10 -4 D6 (on a 4+ unless Sautekh)
vs
W6 Shots S10 -5 D6 .
Sure the Ark has to stand still, but it costs less points and is waaaayy more durable because of QS.
PS:
Additionally the DS Stratagem is one of the worst ever!
Edit: one thing that annoys me about the codex is the amount of equipment exclusive to certain units. Why wouldn't a cryptek mount shadowlooms on a NS/DS, it's such a fragile unit and with a 5++ it would be that bit more survivable
Just want to reiterate that a D is merited for this unit. Nightscythes were 100 points in 7th edition, they could jink and were able to invasion beam without a stratagem a unit from off board. If they were destroyed the unit they were transporting went into reserves. Now they cost 160 points, can't jink, aren't a transport, are much easier to kill and can easily strand anything you put in the "tomb world" dead if destroyed. I lost a lone Nightscythe turn one to a couple Custodes shield captain's on bikes with two 9 man squads on the damn "tomb world" yesterday - had to spend the lousy CP stratagem to bring one in and lost the other squad. Will put my Nightscythes and Doomscythes back on the shelf after this - too expensive and delicate to play in 8th edition.
Armies I field - Tau, Dark Angels, Necrons, Blood Angels
~4100
~1660
10000+
10000+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
4000 pts
