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I think that Sautekh is our best, all around Dynasty.
Give us access to the most characters, who have some really good rules (though you have to build around it)
Dynasty Code is occasionally useful in almost all builds (so that you don't need to build around it).
Stratagem is a really big fly-swatter for times when you just need that unit to go down. Once again, you do not need to build around it.
That being said, I don't think we'll see many Sautekh lists at ATC or ETC... as those formats really encourage specialization in lists, and Sautekh really is a generalist.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
I think that Sautekh is our best, all around Dynasty.
Give us access to the most characters, who have some really good rules (though you have to build around it)
Dynasty Code is occasionally useful in almost all builds (so that you don't need to build around it).
Stratagem is a really big fly-swatter for times when you just need that unit to go down. Once again, you do not need to build around it.
That being said, I don't think we'll see many Sautekh lists at ATC or ETC... as those formats really encourage specialization in lists, and Sautekh really is a generalist.

Maybe I'm just blind to it...but how is the dynastic code useful? Destroyers already ignore movement penalties. DDAs in my mind are either taking the -1 for moving with heavy, or the -1 to move and advance with assault, since the code only kicks in when advancing, right?
Stalkers don't get it, so I guess maybe I'm missing the value. The stratagem and character access are both, as you say, excellent.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
I think that Sautekh is our best, all around Dynasty.
Give us access to the most characters, who have some really good rules (though you have to build around it)
Dynasty Code is occasionally useful in almost all builds (so that you don't need to build around it).
Stratagem is a really big fly-swatter for times when you just need that unit to go down. Once again, you do not need to build around it.
That being said, I don't think we'll see many Sautekh lists at ATC or ETC... as those formats really encourage specialization in lists, and Sautekh really is a generalist.

Maybe I'm just blind to it...but how is the dynastic code useful? Destroyers already ignore movement penalties. DDAs in my mind are either taking the -1 for moving with heavy, or the -1 to move and advance with assault, since the code only kicks in when advancing, right?
Stalkers don't get it, so I guess maybe I'm missing the value. The stratagem and character access are both, as you say, excellent.

Destroyers should be in another dynasty, thought the doomsdays dont get -1 to hit when they move normally with Sautekh, just get a weaker shot. Though generally when your wanting to move them up the feild to get the flayers in range, all the larger targets are gone. So str 8 is just as helpful

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
I think that Sautekh is our best, all around Dynasty.
Give us access to the most characters, who have some really good rules (though you have to build around it)
Dynasty Code is occasionally useful in almost all builds (so that you don't need to build around it).
Stratagem is a really big fly-swatter for times when you just need that unit to go down. Once again, you do not need to build around it.
That being said, I don't think we'll see many Sautekh lists at ATC or ETC... as those formats really encourage specialization in lists, and Sautekh really is a generalist.

Maybe I'm just blind to it...but how is the dynastic code useful? Destroyers already ignore movement penalties. DDAs in my mind are either taking the -1 for moving with heavy, or the -1 to move and advance with assault, since the code only kicks in when advancing, right?
Stalkers don't get it, so I guess maybe I'm missing the value. The stratagem and character access are both, as you say, excellent.

Also destroyer can now advance and fire if they need to get in range. And can still be deadly with EP even with the -1 to hit.

torblind wrote:


Also destroyer can now advance and fire if they need to get in range. And can still be deadly with EP even with the -1 to hit.

Emmmmm... No. Sautekh dont allow us to fire heavy weapons after advancing.

-Sentinel- wrote:

torblind wrote:


Also destroyer can now advance and fire if they need to get in range. And can still be deadly with EP even with the -1 to hit.

Emmmmm... No. Sautekh dont allow us to fire heavy weapons after advancing.

Might want to reread Sautekh, it turns the weapons into assault.

Sautekh has two properties to it's code:

1) When you advance, heavy and rapid fire weapons are treated as assault, allowing you to shoot them although at a -1.

2) Heavy weapons do not take a -1 for moving, except when they advance.

So this means you can move your DDAs without a penalty to your main guns, unless you advance, in which case you take a -2 (it's effectively treated as an assault weapon, so it takes a -1 for that, but it's is still actually a heavy so you take an additional -1 for moving at all)

Destroyers only take a -1 when they advance as they never take the normal movement penalties on their heavy weapons.

Like I said, the Code is occasionally useful, but not something that you need to build around in order to increase your effectiveness. If anyone was forced to build a mono-Dynasty force, I suspect that Sautekh would be the leading contender with Mephrit being a close second.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Has anyone else tried a T. Stalker with twin heavy Gs to support two or three DDAs? I have tried it with two DDAs and lots of tesla immortals and found the list to run pretty well. The QS on the Stalker makes it pretty durable too.
Any idea about the points efficiency for paying for the stalker to reroll for those DDAs?

Its long buried in the thread somewhere, but I believe the consensus was twofold.

1. Its better to just take another Doomsday Ark than a Stalker. (the price difference of like, 20 points is well worth it.)
2. Since DDAs benefit from Dynasty codes, the DDAs can be run in a Nihilak spearhead, meaning they can already reroll 1s if they didn't move.

The catch there would be that we're restricted to a maximum of three DDAs in a list, now. If you want to increase your anti armor capabilities, a HGC Stalker can come in handy there, both in supporting the DDAs (if going Sautekh) and on its own..

And personally, I find Nephrekh too valuable to leave out of any list I build, now. It's become my default, usually with a Sautekh Spearhead.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Sautekh has two properties to it's code:

1) When you advance, heavy and rapid fire weapons are treated as assault, allowing you to shoot them although at a -1.

2) Heavy weapons do not take a -1 for moving, except when they advance.

So this means you can move your DDAs without a penalty to your main guns, unless you advance, in which case you take a -2 (it's effectively treated as an assault weapon, so it takes a -1 for that, but it's is still actually a heavy so you take an additional -1 for moving at all)

Destroyers only take a -1 when they advance as they never take the normal movement penalties on their heavy weapons.

Is this the consensus? News to me if so. I thought any weapon could now be advanced and fired with only a -1 to hit.

Remember advancing is normal movement with D6 added to the length but normal charges and shooting prevented except for assault.

torblind wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Sautekh has two properties to it's code:

1) When you advance, heavy and rapid fire weapons are treated as assault, allowing you to shoot them although at a -1.

2) Heavy weapons do not take a -1 for moving, except when they advance.

So this means you can move your DDAs without a penalty to your main guns, unless you advance, in which case you take a -2 (it's effectively treated as an assault weapon, so it takes a -1 for that, but it's is still actually a heavy so you take an additional -1 for moving at all)

Destroyers only take a -1 when they advance as they never take the normal movement penalties on their heavy weapons.

Is this the consensus? News to me if so. I thought any weapon could now be advanced and fired with only a -1 to hit.

Remember advancing is normal movement with D6 added to the length but normal charges and shooting prevented except for assault.

This is definitely not the consensus.
At the risk of this diverging into YMDC territory, when you treat the heavy weapon as assault, it is no longer being treated as heavy. Therefore, the -1 a heavy weapon being treated as an assault gets for advancing is just the normal -1 penalty that assault weapons get when they advance.

So far with the results from my games, I think I prefer just more destroyers as well, or maybe just one heavy with each squad for versatility.

 skoffs wrote:

torblind wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Sautekh has two properties to it's code:

1) When you advance, heavy and rapid fire weapons are treated as assault, allowing you to shoot them although at a -1.

2) Heavy weapons do not take a -1 for moving, except when they advance.

So this means you can move your DDAs without a penalty to your main guns, unless you advance, in which case you take a -2 (it's effectively treated as an assault weapon, so it takes a -1 for that, but it's is still actually a heavy so you take an additional -1 for moving at all)

Destroyers only take a -1 when they advance as they never take the normal movement penalties on their heavy weapons.

Is this the consensus? News to me if so. I thought any weapon could now be advanced and fired with only a -1 to hit.

Remember advancing is normal movement with D6 added to the length but normal charges and shooting prevented except for assault.

This is definitely not the consensus.
At the risk of this diverging into YMDC territory, when you treat the heavy weapon as assault, it is no longer being treated as heavy. Therefore, the -1 a heavy weapon being treated as an assault gets for advancing is just the normal -1 penalty that assault weapons get when they advance.

Well, I am not going to derail the discussion, so this can be a topic brought up in YMDC. I'll simply say that there are at least two approaches to how the last line of the rule is worded.

Sautekh units only get -1 when advancing with heavy weapons.

"If a unit with this code Advances, it treats all ranged weapons it is equipped with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn (e.g. a Rapid Fire 1 weapon is treated as an Assault 1 weapon, and a Heavy D6 weapon is treated as an Assault D6 weapon etc.)."

Heavy weapons become assault weapons when advancing. Assault weapons only get -1 to hit when advancing.

I cant decide with Code to play for my DDAs:

Do you guys think the Sautekh Strat (+1 to hit if you did a wound on the target with another unit of the same code) is good enough to miss out on the Nihilak Bonus (Reroll of 1s to hit if unit didnt move)? Did anybody do the maths on that already? - Sorry if I have missed it..

If you want to burst down a specific unit in the first round i think Sautekh would be better (since you buff other units too, not only your DDAs but your Destroyer and Immortals). If you go Nihilak chances are you are going to use the Gauss-Weapons of DDAs too late in the game. On the other hand you likely get the Nihilak Bonus for DDAs in the backfield every turn. Close call for me..

Any thoughts?

Data04_exe wrote:
I cant decide with Code to play for my DDAs:

Do you guys think the Sautekh Strat (+1 to hit if you did a wound on the target with another unit of the same code) is good enough to miss out on the Nihilak Bonus (Reroll of 1s to hit if unit didnt move)? Did anybody do the maths on that already? - Sorry if I have missed it..

If you want to burst down a specific unit in the first round i think Sautekh would be better (since you buff other units too, not only your DDAs but your Destroyer and Immortals). If you go Nihilak chances are you are going to use the Gauss-Weapons of DDAs too late in the game. On the other hand you likely get the Nihilak Bonus for DDAs in the backfield every turn. Close call for me..

Any thoughts?

You could always go to www.dice-hammer.com and see for yourself.

The thing to consider in addition though, is that the stratagem costs 2CP and is for one target for one turn only, while Nihilakh has none of those limitations.


As for the statistical consideration, 1 out of every 6 dice becomes a '1', so rerolling ones, means you increase damage output by 1/6.

A BS 3+ means you hit 4/6 times, +1 to hit means you now hit 5/6 times, this is a 1/4 increase (since 4/6 goes to 5/6) This is larger than 1/6 which reroll 1s gives you.|

The statistical comparison is thus straightforward bu the tactical is not.

and this is all assuming you have rolled a 1 on your # of shots...

IDK I'm still super skeptical of the DDA. Big Swing... which means big hit or BIG MISS!

 Gangrel767 wrote:
and this is all assuming you have rolled a 1 on your # of shots...

IDK I'm still super skeptical of the DDA. Big Swing... which means big hit or BIG MISS!

Taking 2 already helps with that

 Gangrel767 wrote:
and this is all assuming you have rolled a 1 on your # of shots...

IDK I'm still super skeptical of the DDA. Big Swing... which means big hit or BIG MISS!

Well, if you are skeptical, give it a shot. I play with two in my lists, and they have been all-stars so far. They more often than not do a huge amount of damage over the course of the game.

Yea, I have 2, and I will give them a try in my next game, but I just hate random # of shots. It's the worst, unless you're catachan.

What about something like this.

Data04_exe wrote:
I cant decide with Code to play for my DDAs:

Do you guys think the Sautekh Strat (+1 to hit if you did a wound on the target with another unit of the same code) is good enough to miss out on the Nihilak Bonus (Reroll of 1s to hit if unit didnt move)? Did anybody do the maths on that already? - Sorry if I have missed it..

If you want to burst down a specific unit in the first round i think Sautekh would be better (since you buff other units too, not only your DDAs but your Destroyer and Immortals). If you go Nihilak chances are you are going to use the Gauss-Weapons of DDAs too late in the game. On the other hand you likely get the Nihilak Bonus for DDAs in the backfield every turn. Close call for me..

Any thoughts?

I would say you want to look at the rest of your army. I originally had the DDA with Nihilakh, but once the big FAQ came out with the changes to CP for battalions, having a Sautekh Warlord and Detachment became much more important for me, due to Hyperlogic Strategy.

we have a somewhat super casual group at my store. Looking to play a monolith. I know it's very subpar, but all 3 times I've played necrons, Ive never gotten to field one and I need to get it out of my system. Suggestions?

I feel the Monolith is not even *that* bad. Its overpriced, yeah, but it does have a reasonable damage output, decent survivability and utility. Running it with the Deceiver might be fun. Relocate the Monolith near the front lines and assault out of it with a big unit of CCrons.

I would love that if I had a deceiver lol. Also that's a ton of points and for some reason, I always feel bad when I'm not running a huge army.

More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap

New necron list from diceshot

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/18/necrons-t-tillman/

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap

Not sure what you obsession with being a contrarian about destroyers is, look at the math and it shows with the stratagem (the thing that makes them so good) a squad of 6 should kill an onager on average. You rolled lower? Your opponent made more saves? That has no bearings on tactics and I can assure you nobody wants to hear about it every time you have a bad roll. It has no place in this thread.

 Dynas wrote:
What about something like this.

Spoiler:

Sautekh +5 CP [1255]

HQ: Cryptek, SoL, Chrono [95] Warlord: Hyperlogical Strategist, Artefact,Veil of Darkness
HQ: Anarykr [167]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 10x Tesla Immortals [170]
Troops: 10x Tesla Immortals [170]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]

Nephrekh +1 CP [745]
HQ: Lord, Hypherphase Sword [76]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 6x Wraiths [330]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]

Total: 2000
CP: 9 ; 12 drops, (not counting any stratagems, but likely hold Destroyers in DS)

Overall pretty decent, but
Why is there a units of 3 Scarabs randomly in the Sautekh Battalion?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bossanovee wrote:
New necron list from diceshot

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/18/necrons-t-tillman/

Huh, that's kind of a weird list.
He gave the Mephrit CCB warlord Merciless Tyrant but didn't give the barge a Tesla Cannon so it can't benefit from it.
He's taking a bunch of smaller unit sized Warriors.
He put the Gauss Tomb Blades in Nephrekh instead of Mephrit.
10 whipcoil Wraiths and no Destroyers.
...
But it came second so I guess it worked out despite all that.

Raxxamous wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap

Not sure what you obsession with being a contrarian about destroyers is, look at the math and it shows with the stratagem (the thing that makes them so good) a squad of 6 should kill an onager on average. You rolled lower? Your opponent made more saves? That has no bearings on tactics and I can assure you nobody wants to hear about it every time you have a bad roll. It has no place in this thread.

Obsession? I keep taking them and they keep failing. I'm just reporting on my games. Wraiths die(since they're one of the most durable things we have, I guess that's fine), destroyers fail to do anything useful. Immortals obliterate enemy troops(I stay 24'' away and fire 2 6s shots that autohit (basically) and the best thing my opponent can have is 1 S3/S4 shot for their troops at that range) and I outscore them xD It's a weird playstyle. Also Deceiver is just MVP every game AND I've yet to go first in all my necron games so far (6). Last game deceiver killed about 600 pts worth of stuff lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
5 destros attacking onager with stratagem:
15 shots - > 13.333 hits -> 7.407 wounds -> 4.5 failed saves = 9 damage. So my 8 damage wasn't even that bellow average taking into account thay you can re-roll a save with CP.