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YES! I had started a Kill Team back when and then 8th happened and I shelved it. Time to crack back out those Emperor's Children and shout vigorously at my enemies until I win.

 Vertrucio wrote:
I'll believe it when it's still a supported product in 1 year after release. This isn't the first time Kill Team or something like it has shown back up on market with a lot of promises, and no delivery.

Then again, they could be trying to do for 40k what Shadespire is doing for AoS.

Honestly I'm not even remotely fussed about it being "supported". Indeed, if N17 is what "supported" means these days, I'd rather it wasn't. I like a nice, comprehensive, one and done purchase, and if the game is good people will play it. Not the newshiny chasers who *need* a new release every quarter to maintain their interest, but enough people that the rules will be worth paying for.

 Ghaz wrote:

ElvisJuice wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.

Pretty sure they've never referred to it as "Organised Play" with Age of Sigmar, though. That was sort of my point. That's a particular thing that they're trying to do (to emulate the likes of FFG's Organised Play).

Organised Play section of the Warhammer Underworlds website, showing what 'organised play' for Kill Team will probably entail.

So your answer to my post specifically pointing out that Shadespire is an explicitly competitive ruleset and so needn't necessarily be the model for organised play for a game that by the hints will be about building your own guys and advancing them over the course of a campaign Necromunda-style, is to just post a link to the Shadespire site?

Organised play means exactly that, play that is organised. It doesn't have to mean "tournament" or any other specific kind of event, it's just a framework of support put in place by the game's makers to promote and expand the game. If they'd been presenting this as "Shadespire 40,000" then yeah, sure, assuming competitive tournaments as the model would be a safe bet, but doing those for a narrative campaign skirmish game would only demonstrate they have a terminal lack of imagination.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

ElvisJuice wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.

Pretty sure they've never referred to it as "Organised Play" with Age of Sigmar, though. That was sort of my point. That's a particular thing that they're trying to do (to emulate the likes of FFG's Organised Play).

Organised Play section of the Warhammer Underworlds website, showing what 'organised play' for Kill Team will probably entail.

So your answer to my post specifically pointing out that Shadespire is an explicitly competitive ruleset and so needn't necessarily be the model for organised play for a game that by the hints will be about building your own guys and advancing them over the course of a campaign Necromunda-style, is to just post a link to the Shadespire site?

Organised play means exactly that, play that is organised. It doesn't have to mean "tournament" or any other specific kind of event, it's just a framework of support put in place by the game's makers to promote and expand the game. If they'd been presenting this as "Shadespire 40,000" then yeah, sure, assuming competitive tournaments as the model would be a safe bet, but doing those for a narrative campaign skirmish game would only demonstrate they have a terminal lack of imagination.

I gave you what GW defines as 'Organised Play' in regards to Shadespire. Can you give an example where GW has defined 'Organised Play' as something else?

This is great news !! I love Kill Team and skirmish-sized games !!

I wonder if the Van Saar can be used in Kill Team ? And if there will be some rules crossover between it and Necromunda. I've been waiting for Van Saars to pick that game up again (wanted to make sure they supported the game with more gangs).

very good.
while armageddon is nice, it dont follow 8th rules so it is a bit of a mess, and necro has no connection to 40k other then beeing in the same universe.

i prefer skirimsh size over army size anyways so this is a buy.

Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).

Myrthe wrote:This is great news !! I love Kill Team and skirmish-sized games !!

I wonder if the Van Saar can be used in Kill Team ? And if there will be some rules crossover between it and Necromunda. I've been waiting for Van Saars to pick that game up again (wanted to make sure they supported the game with more gangs).

I wouldn't expect Van Saar to be available as a gang in Kill Team, but they'd sure make great Imperial Guard/Tempestus proxies, or inquisitorial acolytes/henchmen (assuming that we will see the inquisition in Kill Team, of course).

Given the HUGE gains that Boardgaming has made in the market, it shouldn't surprise any one too much that GW is/has been, pushing a lot of Skirmish sized games as well as Boxed Game sets.

Thanks to companies like CMON, Monolith, etc.. making quality boardgames with good miniatures is really big right now.

All GW had to do was take their top shelf minis and build games around them.

This is also a great way to get people in deeper with their existing systems. You can "try out" armies, units, etc. on a smale scale. If you get hooked on one, maybe you'll build that force up.

I love it beacuse I can use multiple minis for multiple games. Lots of stuff can be used in Necromunda, Kill Team, Shadspire, AoS, 40k, and so on. Things like Imperial Guard, GSC, Skitarii, Kahadaron Overlords, yadd yadda..

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).

By some time you mean a week.

 Imateria wrote:

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).

By some time you mean a week.

Sure, I didn't really remember the exact period, but it was very soon indeed - didn't mean to imply otherwise.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

ElvisJuice wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
For the game system explicitly and intentionally designed to be competitive and tournament-focused, yeah sure. 40K and AoS wise, they've been running as many "campaign day" style events as they have straight-up "bash your buddy's head in" affairs.

Pretty sure they've never referred to it as "Organised Play" with Age of Sigmar, though. That was sort of my point. That's a particular thing that they're trying to do (to emulate the likes of FFG's Organised Play).

Organised Play section of the Warhammer Underworlds website, showing what 'organised play' for Kill Team will probably entail.

So your answer to my post specifically pointing out that Shadespire is an explicitly competitive ruleset and so needn't necessarily be the model for organised play for a game that by the hints will be about building your own guys and advancing them over the course of a campaign Necromunda-style, is to just post a link to the Shadespire site?

Organised play means exactly that, play that is organised. It doesn't have to mean "tournament" or any other specific kind of event, it's just a framework of support put in place by the game's makers to promote and expand the game. If they'd been presenting this as "Shadespire 40,000" then yeah, sure, assuming competitive tournaments as the model would be a safe bet, but doing those for a narrative campaign skirmish game would only demonstrate they have a terminal lack of imagination.

I gave you what GW defines as 'Organised Play' in regards to Shadespire. Can you give an example where GW has defined 'Organised Play' as something else?

"In regards to Shadespire" being the rather key point that you keep wandering past. Shadespire is an explicitly competitive game with fixed warbands and limited deckbuilder-based customisation, this new KT game has been indicated to be a progression and narrative focused system with custom "warbands", so why would GW, which recently has been demonstrating a remarkable amount of sanity and common sense given its history, treat those two entirely different experiences the same way when it comes to event support?

And you know I can't give you an example of that, because GW have never, to my knowledge, even used the specific words "organised play" before Shadespire. What they have done is operate extensive(and at times less so) networks of event support which were in no way limited to tournaments. So now we're past the diversionary semantics, care to address the actual point?

I love Pegasus buildings, but it isn't fair to trash the ones in the video. Those look great for those of us who don't have a skull and pipe obsession.

One of my largest worries, though, is Kill Team being released like Necromunda. There's no information so far about how many warband lists are actually in the rulebook, so we still might be seeing all the available faction dribbled out in seperate publications over months with 'additional rules' to sustain cash flow. So a player wanting an Orc Kill Team might have to wait 6 months after the main game comes out to even get their rules.

It's a bummer, as I really want to be geeked about this. I haven't bought rules material since 5th edition (but still bought minis to paint), but Kill Team could get me back in, as with two kids and less time, skirmish games are where it's at for me.

Going over the trailer, there is stuff like Nerve tests, though this could be a reworded bottle test or whatever for when you lose X-% of your team.

Kill Teams are made through choosing a FACTION keyword and kill teams must be Battle-forged, so no soup then. I think the book itself will clearly list all the options available to each faction.

The campaign has resources in play, these are some shown in the trailer: Morale, Material, Territory and Intelligence.

 BrookM wrote:
Kill Teams are made through choosing a FACTION keyword and kill teams must be Battle-forged, so no soup then. I think the book itself will clearly list all the options available to each faction.

'Soup' lists in 40K are Battle-forged since there are faction keywords such as IMPERIUM or CHAOS. Personally I don't believe 'soup' lists will be in Kill Team, but so far nothing we've seen specifically clarifies the matter.

One can hope.

I am so excited for this.

An all battle suit Tau option, even stealth could sure tempt me

I still have nightmares about Stealth teams in KT.

Tempestus Scions for me, special snowflake squad go!

Tempestus Scions using the new Van Saar models. Hmmm.

Excellent opportunity to use the few Sisters of Battle models I have painted.

 Insane Ivan wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).

By some time you mean a week.

Sure, I didn't really remember the exact period, but it was very soon indeed - didn't mean to imply otherwise.

It was pretty quick yes. But mostly because the box set sold out, so many people had no way of getting into the game. They didn't plan on releasing the rulebook separately at first.
And with Necromunda they still haven't. So I'm worried we'll see the same trend.
Everyone who plays 40K has enough models/terrain to play KT. Convincing someone to buy a small rulebook to get into a new game with the models they already own is much easier than convincing them to buy a huge box full of models they don't intend to use. I suspect GW will go for the no-book option, to try and sell as many boxes as possible, but that's not necessarily healthy for the game.

Has there been any news/rumors of when this is all going down?

My haphazard guess would be late summer, but that's based on nothing real...

Other than this year, nothing yet.

fresus wrote:

 Insane Ivan wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Oh, I'm hyped! I liked the idea of SW:A but never got around to playing - this will give me a fresh outlet for those models I've been assembling.

fresus wrote:So we're looking at a boxed set with a skiitari kit, a GSC neophyte kit, the rulebook, the terrain, a mat, and some dice ? With a decent amount of terrain the price point should be close to what we had for SW:A.
I do hope they learn their mistake from SW:A and release the rulebook separately, but Necromunda and Shadespire are worrying precedents.

The SW:A rulebook was released separately some time after the box set though. For Shadespire there's no real point in releasing the rules separately, as you need to have the cards and the models in order to be able to play (unless you wanted to have two different warbands to start with, but to be honest, I think most who play Shadespire will get all bands anyway, as you'll probably want all the cards).

By some time you mean a week.

Sure, I didn't really remember the exact period, but it was very soon indeed - didn't mean to imply otherwise.

It was pretty quick yes. But mostly because the box set sold out, so many people had no way of getting into the game. They didn't plan on releasing the rulebook separately at first.
And with Necromunda they still haven't. So I'm worried we'll see the same trend.
Everyone who plays 40K has enough models/terrain to play KT. Convincing someone to buy a small rulebook to get into a new game with the models they already own is much easier than convincing them to buy a huge box full of models they don't intend to use. I suspect GW will go for the no-book option, to try and sell as many boxes as possible, but that's not necessarily healthy for the game.

Unlikely to really be supported either, on recent precedent. A nice box of terrain and a book, sell it through, rebox terrain in smaller chunks and profit. Let Kill Team concept itself be a nostalgia-based way of driving sales, and let it fizzle out after release. Hope to be proven wrong but after SW:A and the five minutes the previous KT was valid for I don't have high hopes!

Looks more like the ones they'll be supporting to me - Shadespire, Blood bowl, Necromunda. If they say there's to be organised play it looks like they'll get more effort than SW or whatever the Dark Eldar game was called!

Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.

 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.

Shadow War's rules were awful because they were just the old Necromunda with a couple of very minor tweaks (Unless I'm wildly misremembering).

If they approach this with the same rigour that they did Shadespire, that would be excellent.

 Kalamadea wrote:
I'm absolutely stoked for this. I've tried foryears to get people into the Heralds of Ruin Kill Team which is bloody fantastic, but it's like pulling teeth. We've played a lot more Shadow War Armageddon in my group mostly because it's a single book to pick up, despite the rules and the campaign not being as good as the HoR:KT.

This sounds like an excellent middleground between SW:A and HoR:KT. I'm also excited that it will be it's own dedicated system and not a weak bolt-on job like the old official Kill Team rules have always been. They did a solid job on Necromunda, but te best part of 40K is the aliens. I'll take Eldar and Orks or Necrons vs Tau over humans vs very slightly different humans any day of the week

Tried and liked Heralds - but as you say people prefer "official" rules even if they are inferior.

 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.

Yep, just take a look to their main skirmish game Necromunda. GW has proven it again and again that they don´t give a damn about their rules. I can´t understand why people are so hyped about this new game because the rules will be either shallow or full of mistakes.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Best thing GW could do is outsource their rules development for these skirmish games. Shadow war's rules were some of the worst skirmish rules I've played, and GW really needs to try to market these games outside of the bubble of GW fans. I've just noticed so many willing to accept subpar rules because the nostalgia factor is high.

As a gamer first, I would love actually playable rules that could compete with other skirmish systems.

Yep, just take a look to their main skirmish game Necromunda. GW has proven it again and again that they don´t give a damn about their rules. I can´t understand why people are so hyped about this new game because the rules will be either shallow or full of mistakes.

Honestly, for me it's just that I want a skirmish game like Necromunda, but with main 40k factions (the Necromunda gangs are great, but not the stuff I love about 40k). I've no time to invest in setting up complete armies (and I can't choose just one army, there's too many I like one way or another), so a chance at an official 40k game where I can build a small force of the models I like, is good enough for me. Of course I hope for good rules (to me, that means technically simple, with lots of room for narrative, but I understand opinions on that can vary), but that's really not the main factor here - I rarely play anything outside of Shadespire anyway (and that's one where the rules are excellent).