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Nix but no Panam? Wot?

I'd be interested if i could play as Arasaka, Militech, Petrochem corps etc.....as i did when we played the rpg.

I guess melting the Silverhand figure would be fun but not spending that much


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N3p3nth3 wrote:
Nix but no Panam? Wot?

Stretch goals???

Meredith Stout would be cool

I guess Panam would be coming with a Nomad-themed expansion

So that would be $214 for the $110 pledge to the UK by my count? No thanks

Also damn, already funded

600 of the 1500 odd backers at $1 after the Marvel Zombies shipping prices I guess a lot will wait for the PM. I see they are again quoting shipping at the minimum pledge level without accounting for any add ons etc.

Make that 601 backers at $1 after the Marvel shipping BS.

Also, how the heck is V a KS exclusive? Rediculous

I imagine they should expect 1/3 to 1/2 of pledges to be at $1 during this campaign. Frankly, the consumers were a bit behind on adopting that behavior anyway, now that they know CMON can and will burn them on the final bill, they're getting wise.

I see from flicking through the comments that they are releasing a modified version of Marvel Zombies straight to retail. I think this makes it less likely that some of the KS stuff will go to retail.

https://www.ebgames.com.au/product/toys-and-collectibles/281513-marvel-zombies-board-game

Marvel Zombies: Heroes’ Resistance is a modified core box with a streamlined scope intended for more casual players.

The box has:

- Hero Mode only - no Zombie Mode rules, components, or compatibility.

- Different roster of characters from the Marvel Zombies core box.

- Different game pieces for the Super Heroes (Heroes and Zombie heroes) and different abilities.

- All regular Zombies and Bystanders are standees, not game pieces.

- There are no Plastic Dashboards. Super Heroes have ID cards and use clips and dials to track their Health, Power, and Experience.

- The game comes with 4 Tiles total.

> This looks like another worker placement style game...

Eric Lang was one of the developers, so I'd agree?

"The video game portrays a vibrant cyberpunk world with a story experienced by a single Main Character. However, board games rarely have a single main character, as every player should be their own protagonist who applies agency in the game in their own way. ... This is where the various Night City gangs come in. Gangs offer a unique perspective for the game. For one, there are many of them, each with the peculiarities, hierarchies, and ambition. The video game introduces us to a handful, each with unique styles, behaviors, and gang characteristics, making them a great source of inspiration. ... Most importantly, they also have a clear, unified goal: rule the underground of Night City. ... After initial playtesting and more R&D (including dissecting other games with low territory count like our very own The Godfather: Corleone’s Empire),"

https://www.cmon.com/news/design-diary-1-adapting-cyberpunk-2077

Rules are up. Hybrid Eurogame and Ameritrash, so there's direct combat, but other diverse ways to spend your actions.

I still have my Johnny Lauck post-apoc-is-close-enough-for-me Salvage Crew mini's to paint, so I'm good...

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I guess Panam would be coming with a Nomad-themed expansion

Yes, Nomads and Corpos would make reasonable stretch goals. I’ll come back when those are at least close to being relevant…

Blood Rage isn't a worker placement game. Eric Lang might have made worker placement games at some point, but that one and its two sequels aren't worker placement.

Well, a bunch of interesting characters here I’d love to paint and use in the rpg, even if they are holding the Nomads back.

How’s the miniature quality and size been with Cmon’s releases in the past? I don’t think I have any. They’re saying 32mm so more GW than Infinity?

I've generally been pretty happy with CMON minis. They're PVC, but very, very well done PVC. You sacrifice the sharp detail of HIPS, and in return get minis that won't snap apart easily.

They do a pretty consistent 32mm scale (33-35mm tall), with slight heroic scaling, that's rather inconsistent. GW comes across as a bit bigger (many of their male minis are standing 37-38mm tall at this point), and they do a fuller heroic scale. Of course there's a lot of different miniatures across both ranges, so comparisons will vary.

I've also been very happy with CMON PVC, they're the best on the market. I've painted a lot of ASoIaF minis for RPG figures and they're incredible, they almost feel like HIPS an hold very fine details well including some very thinly cast swords. No issues with bendy or wavy swords, none of them have needed heat treatment to fix poses, mold lines scrape away with only slightly more work than HIPS. They really don't feel like working with PVC at all and have become some of my favorite figures to work with, I wish CMON made fantasy figures like it. In my ideal world, every figure ever would be produced is in ASoIaF type PVC

For boardgames, the most recent CMON I've painted is Zombicide Green Horde and a few loose Massive Darkness figures from ebay, quality is a step down from the ASoIaF minis but still excellent even compared to other PVC figs on the market. Weapons are sometimes a bit bendy and need to be heated with hot water and reshaped, mold lines are slightly annoying to clean since the material is softer. BUTZ, both GH and MD are a large step up from Reaper Bones Black and also from Wizkids D&D unpainted lines and a MASSIVE step above the new Heroquest revamp minis.

Personally, I gladly take the small hit in detail with to gain the robustness of PVC, I've yet to have any breaks or paint issues with any CMON minis.

I'm very tempted to up my $1 pledge and just go accept that shipping will be awful. Especially with all the drama in the KS comments, there's some overly toxic people calling themselves "The $1 club" in the KS comments who are bashing anyone that isn't 100% anti-CMON in the comments. It's far beyond the normal "Buyer beware, you should know this about the company before you pledge", It's pretty disgusting.

 Kalamadea wrote:
I've also been very happy with CMON PVC, they're the best on the market. I've painted a lot of ASoIaF minis for RPG figures and they're incredible, they almost feel like HIPS an hold very fine details well including some very thinly cast swords. No issues with bendy or wavy swords, none of them have needed heat treatment to fix poses, mold lines scrape away with only slightly more work than HIPS. They really don't feel like working with PVC at all and have become some of my favorite figures to work with, I wish CMON made fantasy figures like it. In my ideal world, every figure ever would be produced is in ASoIaF type PVC

For boardgames, the most recent CMON I've painted is Zombicide Green Horde and a few loose Massive Darkness figures from ebay, quality is a step down from the ASoIaF minis but still excellent even compared to other PVC figs on the market. Weapons are sometimes a bit bendy and need to be heated with hot water and reshaped, mold lines are slightly annoying to clean since the material is softer. BUTZ, both GH and MD are a large step up from Reaper Bones Black and also from Wizkids D&D unpainted lines and a MASSIVE step above the new Heroquest revamp minis.

Just to note the ASOIAF minis have ABS (lego type) plastic weapons and PVC bodies that's why they are better than the Zombicide or Massive Darkness ones. As Cyberpunk is a Sci-Fi boardgame I wouldn't expect any ABS in the minis.

The weapons and skinny bits in Massive Darkness 2 are all ABS as well. It seems as though CMON is mixing PVC and ABS with their latest stuff.
And I agree that CMON board games minis are a step above Bones and Wizkids models, and they’re a harder plastic.
However, it’s usually only the larger and more spindly things that they use ABS. Rise of Moloch models seems to be almost entirely ABS due to the firmness. But that’s the only game I’ve seen from them that has done this.

As for Cyberpunk? It’s way too expensive for what it is. As was Marvel Zombies.

And I’m not sure why this $1 club is treated as something new. It’s how I’ve almost always pledged for their projects since 2013. It seemed to me to be the best way to decide, save and avoid the hype train.
Having more time to make the decision always helps to temper the FOMO, and since CMON treats a $1 pledge the same as any other, I never saw a reason to pledge fully.
I mean I have pledged more than $1 a few times but it was always the exception to the rule.
I think the days to value based Kickstarter mini heavy games is over. I mean we’re looking at $200+ for most base pledge’s including shipping. At that price point, I’ll just buy a boxed GW game and get better models.
And I won’t have to deal with 6 month to 1 year delays.

Thanks all, I will proceed, then.

And yes, I’ve been rolling my eyes at the comments. I only back things I’d want at double the price.

 DaveC wrote:

Just to note the ASOIAF minis have ABS (lego type) plastic weapons and PVC bodies that's why they are better than the Zombicide or Massive Darkness ones. As Cyberpunk is a Sci-Fi boardgame I wouldn't expect any ABS in the minis.

That's really interesting, I've painted almost a dozen or more from different factions and didn't even realize they mixed materials on those. I'll need to go back and look at some of the ones I haven't primed yet, they do a good job of matching the pre-colored plastics in that case. Point stands about being great figures to paint and game with

And I’m not sure why this $1 club is treated as something new

I meant that literally, there's a group of backers actively calling themselves "The $1 Club" and harassing backers in the KS comments, including one particularly obnoxious one who registered a new acount under the name "Anti-CMON, president of the $1 Club" who drove off the CMON employee that was trying to answer questions this morning. By all means, warn people about KS shennanigans (I did as much for the recent Mythic KS), but this goes way too far beyond that

It's not that the $1 club is new, it's the preponderance of them in the comments, and the relative lack of others shouting them down

it's also the slowest moving CMON project i've seen

(now that could be down to CMON and the shipping prices, but i wonder how many people were burned to the point of giving up on cyberpunk 2077 by the terrible console versions of the video game?)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It's not that the $1 club is new, it's the preponderance of them in the comments, and the relative lack of others shouting them down

it's also the slowest moving CMON project i've seen

(now that could be down to CMON and the shipping prices, but i wonder how many people were burned to the point of giving up on cyberpunk 2077 by the terrible console versions of the video game?)

My Shadowrun group fell apart during the pandemic so I wasn't paying attention to this but the thread caught my eye so I took a look.



$50+ for shipping within the US and that's an "estimate" likely to go up but never down? That's a cyber-nope for me personally. I'll just check it out when it's at the FLGS and snipe the KS exclusives (if any) that I want on the secondary market.

Woof. That is a big cyber-nope from me either.

Even if I would add my voice to the chorus of "I really like CMON boardgame minis and think they're the best-in-class" too.

I am very (very) excited for Trudvang, which should be coming aaaaaaany day now. Fantasy is more my speed, and I'm optimistic those minis won't disappoint.

Yeah, KS has become unviable for me. I might buy it if it gets good reviews and is available at retail.

These companies are using it wrong and to their benefit anyway. To me, KS should be for edge-case (at the time) games that would probably never be made by a regular studio, like Gloomhaven, 7th Continent, etc.

CMON probably shouldn't be using kickstarter for their main games IMO.

Pretty much all games are edge-case to be honest. Particularly anything in plastic is a "bet the company" prospect for most out there. I suspect even CMON would have to be a lot more conservative with what they produce without it. Distribution used to help a bit, but with Asmodee pretty much closing that off for most companies, KS is remarkably necessary for far more products than you'd assume.

Yeah, it's in the "barely worth it" zone for me, mostly because I have no other major projects planned. Well, a lot planned to finish, but no major purchases planned. Buying models, painting models and playing with models are almost completely separate hobbies for me now.

Currently sitting at 68 models for $170ish USD (for my area). Not great, not terrible. Like I said, in the "barely worth it" zone for me, but I wouldn't fault anybody for noping out of this one

The thing about KS comment section flame wars is that the second somebody has an opinion (CMON's shipping is too high, Mythic's customer service is good, water is wet) some other person, theoretically an adult, will dive in off the top rope to say something snide, tell the person they don't need to comment, tell them they should just leave, or whatever else, and then everybody insulted by that guy's comments now have eternal permission to say the other side started it and they're toxic.

And so then they say something snide to someone else, maybe someone who has already seemed a little contentious to them, and they're just defending themselves at that point in their own eyes. And now the other side has eternal permission to say the other side started it and they're toxic.

You can't swing a dead cat in that comment section without smacking it into a snide, unnecessarily rude and dismissive comment from either side. And the secret is, to be the change you want to see in the world and just think to yourself, "Yup, that guy said something rude, now I'm moving on." A feat I often manage within only 2 to 3 argumentative responses these days. Maybe by old age I'll be down to zero.

I concur. I have backed a ton of CMON projects, but the shipping and lackadaisical attitude CMON seems to have for this project leads me to the following theory:

This is a contractual obligation KS, and they are using it to gauge the fallout from Marvel Zombies.

The engagement is not there, the excitement and email blasts are simply: here is it, you can back it. Even their Facebook posts look half-assed compared to MZ and XMU.

I suspect they need to do something with the Cyberpunk 2077 IP, and what better way to see the general public's response than with a NON-Zombicide NON-wholly owned IP KS?

Still better than those Trudvang puns.

Marvel Zombies had 29K vs. Marvel United's 25K backers, so, with more people, there's going to be more complaining. KS comments shows 25 posts at a time, so it's not difficult for a small percentage of (previous) backers to fill the comments. BGG threads its comments, so it's a better place to discuss a CMON project, even if answers from CMON are filtered through those who have read the KS comments.

CMON has a long history of poor customer relations, and adding additional charges in the PM that were underestimated or not announced in funding. I agree that nothing's new here, but it's a combination of things that have made some backers upset. I joined the $1 club after the Bloodbourne KS, when CMON went up to (gasp) $40 shipping for a base pledge from $24. Those were the days, eh?

Reaper, run by accountants, is interesting how they handled shipping. IIRC, Their first Bones KS, which was run after CMON's first Zombicide KS, offered free domestic shipping. Internationals got upset that they were "subsidizing" USA shipping so Reaper said they would charge "actual shipping" costs -- and *everybody* paid more shipping. Internationals got upset, but, while there was a dip in backers, backer numbers returned, despite this policy. In their latest KS, Reaper didn't even give shipping estimates, instead providing sample weight and volumes for typical orders, and said they would charge shipping near fulfillment. Some CMON KS backers wanted this, but we'll see how well shipping costs are received with Reaper's KS. Reaper's managed to cultivate good customer relations with its fans, which I'm sure has translated into civil behavior in their comments. That said, it's CMON's Marvel Zombies that pulled in $9M, while Reaper's latest KS dropped from $3M to $1M.

Isa looks to be posting some crowd control in the KS comments.

 LunarSol wrote:
Pretty much all games are edge-case to be honest. Particularly anything in plastic is a "bet the company" prospect for most out there. I suspect even CMON would have to be a lot more conservative with what they produce without it. Distribution used to help a bit, but with Asmodee pretty much closing that off for most companies, KS is remarkably necessary for far more products than you'd assume.

Oh I disagree pretty strongly. Lots of games have had a decent amount of plastic without KS. They also don't have to make so much plastic. Gloomhaven did just fine with standees. We all know the plastic is there to get 'the monies" from people who 'gotta have it all', and these companies are capitalizing (and I can't blame them).

 Sacredroach wrote:
I concur. I have backed a ton of CMON projects, but the shipping and lackadaisical attitude CMON seems to have for this project leads me to the following theory:

This is a contractual obligation KS, and they are using it to gauge the fallout from Marvel Zombies.

What happened with Zombies? I followed that peripherally while it was funding but ultimately I was only interested in a few unlocked minis so haven't looked back in. Supply chain issues?