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Those tables are awful.

Also a terrible way to attract new blood or advertise your event. The absolute best part of playing 40k is the spectacle of it. Those tables are a waste of opportunity.

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Except you don't have a clue how much work is done behind the scenes to run something like Adepticon or LVO and you don't see that unless your directly involved in the process.

I'm sure that LGT could have talked to the organizers of LVO and/or AdeptiCon and gotten all the info they needed. It's not like these gaming conferences/tournaments are in competition with each other. They are at different times of the year. So, I have a feeling the organizers of LVO and AdeptiCon wouldn't have had any issues sharing info on how to handle a tournament that big.

SG

The organisers of LVO and Nova were all in attendance, so it's not like they weren't aware. The Frontline Gaming guys were even handling all the registration of stuff on the BCP app, so they were helping out already.

Really the simple answer for the LGT team is to do what they were paid to do and organise. Every single issue that occurred was a direct result of failure to plan. Everything was much too slipshod for the scale they were trying to run the event at - the sort of lazy mistakes they made, like failing to account for the dimensions of the rooms properly, or managing the pressure on food stalls or the pressure to get terrain painted, are things you can get away with when there's 40 people coming. With 400+ tickets sold you need to sacrifice your time months ahead to get it ready instead of trying to start your big terrain build 11 days before kickoff.

I'd consider going back - in two years time, assuming they run an event I can trust in 2019. Not touching it until after they've managed to run one without problems though.

I LOL'd at the "terrain". OMG.

 ServiceGames wrote:

Most places in the UK a beer is £5 or less London £10 or more, it is basically the UK version of Manhattan. It has it's advantages but a lot of downsides.

This just isn't true. At all. I spend a lot time in London and while it is true that it is more expensive than other parts of the UK, it's not that much more.

 Hollow wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:

Most places in the UK a beer is £5 or less London £10 or more, it is basically the UK version of Manhattan. It has it's advantages but a lot of downsides.

This just isn't true. At all. I spend a lot time in London and while it is true that it is more expensive than other parts of the UK, it's not that much more.

Let it be known that I didn't write that. Misquoted.

SG

In London most pubs will have an ale on for around £4. Lager is more likely to be a bit more expensive, but should be below £5 - especially for Carling or the like. Hipster beer (your premium European lagers, your increasingly-American "all the grapefruit" craft IPAs) can move towards £6 but rarely more than that.

You can probably (but not always) knock a quid off you expectation if you are in another city centre (a Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Brighton, Edinburgh etc). Then the further you go from civilisation the cheaper it gets. When working up in Scotland a year or so ago I found a pub in Grangemouth which was still doing pints for £1.60 - it was as if 20~ years inflation had happened to other people (and, to be fair, it probably had.)

The issue is that you are at an event at a conference centre. Its like eating at a motorway service station or an airport. You are a captive market and they hike the price accordingly (also it costs them more to bring stuff in/staff the place, but not nearly as much).

I can bet booking out a wing in Birmingham's NEC would be cheaper than the Olympic Stadium - but food and drink is still going to be expensive. It certainly isn't getting dolled out for free. There might be even cheaper places (how mean do I want to be?) but in a major city its going to be much of a muchness.

Really the disorganisation was a sign this was a first time/amateurly run event.

The terrain looks awful - but to some degree I can understand the problems of getting matching terrain for 180 or however many tables. I suspect doing it properly would have cost £50-100 per table, which for one event is a major sum of money. Cynically I'd argue GW could have chipped in - which supposedly they did - but then you have the issue of wanting all those tables to match each other.

My main thoughts are that the Olympic Stadium was a stupid place to host this and more time needed to be spent. That does however add to the cost - and I suspect the hosts didn't have the pockets to take potential losses.

Oh my lord that terrain.


But the over priced dranks make sense it is a pretty major city.

Tyel wrote:
In London most pubs will have an ale on for around £4. Lager is more likely to be a bit more expensive, but should be below £5 - especially for Carling or the like. Hipster beer (your premium European lagers, your increasingly-American "all the grapefruit" craft IPAs) can move towards £6 but rarely more than that.

You can probably (but not always) knock a quid off you expectation if you are in another city centre (a Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Brighton, Edinburgh etc). Then the further you go from civilisation the cheaper it gets. When working up in Scotland a year or so ago I found a pub in Grangemouth which was still doing pints for £1.60 - it was as if 20~ years inflation had happened to other people (and, to be fair, it probably had.)

The issue is that you are at an event at a conference centre. Its like eating at a motorway service station or an airport. You are a captive market and they hike the price accordingly (also it costs them more to bring stuff in/staff the place, but not nearly as much).

I can bet booking out a wing in Birmingham's NEC would be cheaper than the Olympic Stadium - but food and drink is still going to be expensive. It certainly isn't getting dolled out for free. There might be even cheaper places (how mean do I want to be?) but in a major city its going to be much of a muchness.

Really the disorganisation was a sign this was a first time/amateurly run event.

The terrain looks awful - but to some degree I can understand the problems of getting matching terrain for 180 or however many tables. I suspect doing it properly would have cost £50-100 per table, which for one event is a major sum of money. Cynically I'd argue GW could have chipped in - which supposedly they did - but then you have the issue of wanting all those tables to match each other.

My main thoughts are that the Olympic Stadium was a stupid place to host this and more time needed to be spent. That does however add to the cost - and I suspect the hosts didn't have the pockets to take potential losses.

I couldn't care less about the price of beer. Tax is a thing, and it's an expensive drink.
I took issue with the price of bottled water. A large glass' worth was £3.50, on a hot day, [Around 21 degrees C] in an event with precious little ventilation, and lots of windows to let in the sunlight, and a two day ban on so much as bringing your own bottle to drink with,
There's a difference in charging for luxuries, and extorting your customers so they don't suffer heatstroke and dehyradition.

Ice_can wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:
1. Making basic/essential commodities expensive (water food etc).
2. London is an overcrowded city, space is very expensive. Had this been in any other city in the UK, they wouldn't have had the issues they did,

I honestly don't know the cost of things like water or food are at Magic The Gathering tournaments, but they run usually 700 to 900 people. Granted, play area is much smaller for MTG, but it's the same concept. Star City Games holds tournaments in many large cities here in the US, and I haven't yet heard of any issues with food/water being too expensive. They always have plenty of staff, judges, etc. They always have plenty of room for the players. Granted, you may be sitting with two way overweight guys on either side of you with nearly no room to move at times, sure. But, that just comes with MTG.

I'm aware that the UK is smaller than the US, and granted, they haven't yet tried to hold a tournament on say Manhattan Island in New York City. But, they don't seem to have a problem finding places (even in these very large cities) to accommodate 900 people.

I guess that's what confuses me. With so many examples of ways to handle large tournaments (be it MTG or Warhammer), it shouldn't be too difficult to follow those examples. But, I can also say that I don't live in the UK, so I'm not sure how easy that would be.

SG

Most places in the UK a beer is £5 or less London £10 or more, it is basically the UK version of Manhattan. It has it's advantages but a lot of downsides.

Where do you live? I ask because that's a skewed idea of the relative costs that is just untrue.

I live in Leeds, and travel to London regularly. I hardly notice any difference in the cost of a pint.

It seems like the OP's issues are more the fault of the organiser and venue than the host city. There are conferences held for much larger gatherings that manage to feed everybody on time.

Not the UK, but I attended a work conference in Florida last year that fed 8k people in the 1 hour lunch break. It's all about the preparation and having a system that works.

But yeh. Those tables are an eyesore. Wasn't there a minimum painting standard for armies at this event?

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
. . .on a hot day, [Around 21 degrees C] . . .
There's a difference in charging for luxuries, and extorting your customers so they don't suffer heatstroke and dehyradition.

What qualifies as "hot" in the UK is as hilarious to me, as I'm sure what qualifies as "cold" in Texas is hilarious to you. As I type this, it's 27 C outside, and I was just remarking how beautiful the weather is. We hit 38 C last week twice.

Your hatred for London is bizarre OP. There is no reason London can't have a gaming event. Just because these guys ran a shitshow doesn't someone else could have done better. The fact is, if the terrain had been handled even modestly and they'd hired two more people to man the bag checking then there would have been no uproar.

There were many more mistakes - food should have been more readily available and accessible (subsidised ideally).

That's ignoring accessibility and fire safety issues which are a legal requirement.

Basically the way to fix this event would be to have event management experts run it. Not these amateurs.

I honestly think the best way to fix the event would be to have someone else run it, and probably to downscale it a bit so that it can grow naturally.

The problems are the same every year - bad organisation, gak terrain and a general sense that we should all be greatful for being there. It has none or the fun or sense of event that something like NOVA has.

Partly I think this is because big events, while nominally based around a competitive tournament, are anything but. An event of that size will have 50 or so super-competitive ETC tournament regulars, but most ticket buyers are there for a fun weekend or beer and games with different people to their usual group. Big events need to keep that in mind, and regularly do. I would argue that the majority of people buying tickets for the GT would prefer really good quality interesting terrain that matches the playing surface to identical, competitive but gak polystyrene. They’ll be the majority in the lower 300 of the table, but they’re still the ones paying for the event.

However, the tournament organisers ARE the competitive ETC sorts and run the entire event with only that demographic in mind. Hence, beautiful gaming mats with consistently gak terrain across all three years and refusal to use alternatives even when offered them. Prize packages which are pretty huge but no extra money spent on things that matter. Tons of people to make it the BIGGEST event, but no space between tables. The actual competitive 40kGT meticulously organised but no thought put into the entry, the food, the bar, the atmosphere, the seminars, any of the side events (which is a lot of ticket sales).

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm sorry but I can't agree with this sentiment. I recognize the problems that these people may have but where do you draw the line? If someone is morbidly obese do you give them more room or a bigger chair so that they are more comfortable?

When you go to a competitive event then you are there to compete doing your best while your opponent does the same. The game should be level for both players. If one or both of the players have special needs then they should account for it when playing or, if they feel that they can't compete without some special help they should look for an event that caters to that problem.

Honestly I never wanted more time for the dyspraxia, the problem was simply moving round the hall when there was less than two feet between tables. It's hardly an in game advantage to ask for the tables to be placed in such a way that people can make there way to there table on time, or as suggested above if someone can't move around well just assign them a table by the door. To be fair all the players were very helpful with the whole crutches thing, but it still made it take alot longer to get to tables. Especially as there was no logical layout and I had to stop when the pain got bad from wandering around looking.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I honestly think the best way to fix the event would be to have someone else run it, and probably to downscale it a bit so that it can grow naturally.

The problems are the same every year - bad organisation, gak terrain and a general sense that we should all be greatful for being there. It has none or the fun or sense of event that something like NOVA has.

Partly I think this is because big events, while nominally based around a competitive tournament, are anything but. An event of that size will have 50 or so super-competitive ETC tournament regulars, but most ticket buyers are there for a fun weekend or beer and games with different people to their usual group. Big events need to keep that in mind, and regularly do. I would argue that the majority of people buying tickets for the GT would prefer really good quality interesting terrain that matches the playing surface to identical, competitive but gak polystyrene. They’ll be the majority in the lower 300 of the table, but they’re still the ones paying for the event.

However, the tournament organisers ARE the competitive ETC sorts and run the entire event with only that demographic in mind. Hence, beautiful gaming mats with consistently gak terrain across all three years and refusal to use alternatives even when offered them. Prize packages which are pretty huge but no extra money spent on things that matter. Tons of people to make it the BIGGEST event, but no space between tables. The actual competitive 40kGT meticulously organised but no thought put into the entry, the food, the bar, the atmosphere, the seminars, any of the side events (which is a lot of ticket sales).

This looks like it might be pretty close to the truth. We have pictures of crates of terrain that GW supplied sitting unused, presumably because it didn't fit the terrain maps the TO had already provided. Rather than providing tables that look good they'd prefer to give people awful-looking terrain as long as it matches the tournament pack. I know which of the two I'd prefer. It makes the lack of terrain even more bizarre, though, now that I think about it. If it was all set out in the tournament pack there's no excuse for not having exactly the right number and type of terrain pieces for each table. The one thing that strikes me about the terrain, other than how absolutely terrible it looks, is the complete lack of verticality. Playing on that must be so dull. I'm sure it's because it's easier to make and more consistent to just have LoS blockers rather than slightly different types of ruin.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I took issue with the price of bottled water. A large glass' worth was £3.50, on a hot day, [Around 21 degrees C] in an event with precious little ventilation, and lots of windows to let in the sunlight, and a two day ban on so much as bringing your own bottle to drink with,
There's a difference in charging for luxuries, and extorting your customers so they don't suffer heatstroke and dehyradition.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY? They prevent bringing in food&drinks and charge like hell?

Phew. Makes me even more happy to play in Finland. Albeit we can't buy food at the tournament place(but plenty restaurants nearby usually) but you can bring your own at will. Often even refridgerator available.

Drager wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:

Support people with disabilities such as dyslexia, dyspraxia, autism etc.


People should be given the option of declaring their disabilities, which in turn should be catered for. People with dyslexia shouldn't be penalized for making a mistake with their lists. People with dyspraxia should be given extra time to finish their games. People with a physical disability should be given their own table to avoid the need to move around.

I'm both dyspraxic and (currently) on crutches. I just realised reading this that is probably a massive contributor to why I didn't finish any games.

1. You have plenty of time to review your list to submit it. Mistakes still get made and honestly those people don't have an excuse either. You. Have. Time.
2. Their own table? How much space do you think exists at theae events overall?

 Hollow wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:

Most places in the UK a beer is £5 or less London £10 or more, it is basically the UK version of Manhattan. It has it's advantages but a lot of downsides.

This just isn't true. At all. I spend a lot time in London and while it is true that it is more expensive than other parts of the UK, it's not that much more.

It was me that said it and I only ever do corporate entertainment in London and thats what we're usually paying, if you know the place there maybe cheaper places, but I certainly wouldn't be advising visitors going walking around large parts of London. I've certainly never found it to be a friendly or particularly safe feeling city.

Did the venue sell alcohol?
A quick google tells me you are legally entitled to free tab water if they sell alcohol, you just have to ask for it (tho they can charge you for the glass and gak).

Know your laws people.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

2. Their own table? How much space do you think exists at theae events overall?

Please explain how scheduling table allocations so that disabled people don't need to move between tables (unless two of them end up matched against each other) takes up any more space.

 Ordana wrote:
Did the venue sell alcohol?
A quick google tells me you are legally entitled to free tab water if they sell alcohol, you just have to ask for it (tho they can charge you for the glass and gak).

Know your laws people.

Wasnt there, but could just have been location of drinks compare to play area, and if you had to walk through 3 other tables/players it could have been a pain.

So, I kinda disagree with a chunk of what has been said so far, but not all.

Sure, not allowing food and drink in, is an annoyance, but pretty much every venue does this – even things like the majority of cinemas and other venues. They did however provide free tap water and cups. I don’t think most people realised this though as no one told anyone about it.

London is pretty easy to get around. Each day took me roughly 15-20 mins on the tube to and from my hotel. The walk from the Stratford tube station to the stadium took just as long. Sure, it isn’t always ideal to be travelling on the tube everywhere – especially if you have a couple of very large bags, but, it is certainly cheaper and quicker and easier than having to organise taxis or work out the buses. Travel would have been a pain regardless of where the event was held.

Food price wise, didn’t seem too excessive. Cost me £4 for nachos, where a burger and chips came to about £6.50. Wasn’t a great deal of food, but, hardly the wallet shattering cost of most places. For example, a pizza in my hotel the evening before the event cost me £14, with a beer costing me another ~£6. Any venue will have higher prices. All I did on Saturday evening was drop into one of the food courts at the Olympic part centre on the way back to the tube station and got something for half the price.

In regards to list submission and dyslexia, I’m sorry, but it isn’t an excuse to have an incorrect list. There are so many tools and people out there to help check things that any issues with illegal/incorrect lists lies with the writer. Sure, due to the timing of the FAQ, just over 2 weeks wasn’t ideal, BUT, it is still plenty of time to design a list and check it line by line dozens of times. Players then had 3 weeks after submission to prepare the physical list AND fix any issues found between submission date and the event date. Most lists were also checked on the google doc page and issues highlighted.
As for points cost issues in your own list, again, if you have extreme issues with numbers there are people and aids out there. Brand brand brand new players will of course potentially experience issues with list construction, but, I doubt there were many – if any, at the event.

I agree that the layout and support for people with certain disabilities wasn’t great. Things could certainly have been done way better in this regard.

Terrain was functional, but embarrassing for a “European leading” event.

Organisation was pretty piss poor as well.

Final scoring – I have no idea what my final event score was. I know how many points I got from gaming, but I can’t find anywhere that tells me what my total event score was. Did I lose points for my list, or was it ok? I’m guessing my painting score was fine cos no one checked it, but I don’t know. Sportmanship score?
Edit – just found the final rankings (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DIRs_CZsfrKfBDelZa_tVUrlkSgyk-Koevd-wQH1RrU/edit#gid=0)
Not got 100% confidence in the scoring for everyone though, as no one seems to have been given the correct points for list submission. I’m also pretty sure there were more than 29 late and incorrect lists when I was doing some list checking.

The whole thing kinda makes me wish I had the ability to just run the whole thing myself with a team.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Drager wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:

Support people with disabilities such as dyslexia, dyspraxia, autism etc.


People should be given the option of declaring their disabilities, which in turn should be catered for. People with dyslexia shouldn't be penalized for making a mistake with their lists. People with dyspraxia should be given extra time to finish their games. People with a physical disability should be given their own table to avoid the need to move around.

I'm both dyspraxic and (currently) on crutches. I just realised reading this that is probably a massive contributor to why I didn't finish any games.

1. You have plenty of time to review your list to submit it. Mistakes still get made and honestly those people don't have an excuse either. You. Have. Time.
2. Their own table? How much space do you think exists at theae events overall?

Extra time not always needed, I'm Dyspraxic and I have adapted, alot to point people take time to tell unless I'm writing... I cannot hide it there, especially hand writing.

This is a very particular things. And very much varries on the person. So so much intangibles per person, blanket policy maybe should be swapped to asking those what adjustments can be made in sensible reason. Same as those with mobility issues. And work somthing out back and forth to suit that person. Yes this takes time but I can guarantee that would be very much respected among some players.

Yes, those who less mobile need more space, or options to support them this nothing big, you are meant to do what you can to support disabilities. Simple as allowing more room between and chairs, also heights for wheel chair. Yeah that's not hard...

As for them breaking fire safety rules and blocking exits... Bad bad bad... That's the kinda stuff that gets you fined into the thousands and thousands.

In general...

This is a example od one that's grown too big, too fast. Downsize abit. Grow into scale, build your terrain a and so over time and contacts etc.

Find a better location, more space or less players. Better access to food. There's tons of convention and so venues in the city better equiped than this one.

Kdash wrote:
So, I kinda disagree with a chunk of what has been said so far, but not all.

Sure, not allowing food and drink in, is an annoyance, but pretty much every venue does this – even things like the majority of cinemas and other venues. They did however provide free tap water and cups. I don’t think most people realised this though as no one told anyone about it.

London is pretty easy to get around. Each day took me roughly 15-20 mins on the tube to and from my hotel. The walk from the Stratford tube station to the stadium took just as long. Sure, it isn’t always ideal to be travelling on the tube everywhere – especially if you have a couple of very large bags, but, it is certainly cheaper and quicker and easier than having to organise taxis or work out the buses. Travel would have been a pain regardless of where the event was held.

Food price wise, didn’t seem too excessive. Cost me £4 for nachos, where a burger and chips came to about £6.50. Wasn’t a great deal of food, but, hardly the wallet shattering cost of most places. For example, a pizza in my hotel the evening before the event cost me £14, with a beer costing me another ~£6. Any venue will have higher prices. All I did on Saturday evening was drop into one of the food courts at the Olympic part centre on the way back to the tube station and got something for half the price.

In regards to list submission and dyslexia, I’m sorry, but it isn’t an excuse to have an incorrect list. There are so many tools and people out there to help check things that any issues with illegal/incorrect lists lies with the writer. Sure, due to the timing of the FAQ, just over 2 weeks wasn’t ideal, BUT, it is still plenty of time to design a list and check it line by line dozens of times. Players then had 3 weeks after submission to prepare the physical list AND fix any issues found between submission date and the event date. Most lists were also checked on the google doc page and issues highlighted.
As for points cost issues in your own list, again, if you have extreme issues with numbers there are people and aids out there. Brand brand brand new players will of course potentially experience issues with list construction, but, I doubt there were many – if any, at the event.

I agree that the layout and support for people with certain disabilities wasn’t great. Things could certainly have been done way better in this regard.

Terrain was functional, but embarrassing for a “European leading” event.

Organisation was pretty piss poor as well.

Final scoring – I have no idea what my final event score was. I know how many points I got from gaming, but I can’t find anywhere that tells me what my total event score was. Did I lose points for my list, or was it ok? I’m guessing my painting score was fine cos no one checked it, but I don’t know. Sportmanship score?
Edit – just found the final rankings (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DIRs_CZsfrKfBDelZa_tVUrlkSgyk-Koevd-wQH1RrU/edit#gid=0)
Not got 100% confidence in the scoring for everyone though, as no one seems to have been given the correct points for list submission. I’m also pretty sure there were more than 29 late and incorrect lists when I was doing some list checking.

The whole thing kinda makes me wish I had the ability to just run the whole thing myself with a team.

I have server dyslexia (An example of how bad, I literally cant see/read music notes, it looks like spinning crossed eye lines with moving dots), and i think the same, there is no reason to not have a proper list, battlescribe/spreadsheets with internet for help and others, along with calculators etc... there is no excuse. (Honestly i'm on forums so much is to practice, i have a list of things to work on everyday, it does help.. a bit, but only with some words, pictures/directions and memory doesnt tho).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Drager wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:

Support people with disabilities such as dyslexia, dyspraxia, autism etc.


People should be given the option of declaring their disabilities, which in turn should be catered for. People with dyslexia shouldn't be penalized for making a mistake with their lists. People with dyspraxia should be given extra time to finish their games. People with a physical disability should be given their own table to avoid the need to move around.

I'm both dyspraxic and (currently) on crutches. I just realised reading this that is probably a massive contributor to why I didn't finish any games.

1. You have plenty of time to review your list to submit it. Mistakes still get made and honestly those people don't have an excuse either. You. Have. Time.
2. Their own table? How much space do you think exists at theae events overall?

Not 100% why I got quoted for that. I'm not dyslexic and my list was perfect. I don't think 'their own table' meant a special table, just put people who can't move around on the same table every round. That's not an extra table needed, it's not even an overhead on time really.

Being on crutches making it hard to get to the tables made the dyspraxia a factor in this event. It isn't usually, I can compensate, I've won largish tournaments (not the majors) in the past, I've placed top 5 many many times. The stress of being in pain and confused as to where to go whilst not being able to move around properly messed with my coping mechanisms for the dyspraxia though, as they require a high level of concentration.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Kdash wrote:
So, I kinda disagree with a chunk of what has been said so far, but not all.

Sure, not allowing food and drink in, is an annoyance, but pretty much every venue does this – even things like the majority of cinemas and other venues. They did however provide free tap water and cups. I don’t think most people realised this though as no one told anyone about it.

London is pretty easy to get around. Each day took me roughly 15-20 mins on the tube to and from my hotel. The walk from the Stratford tube station to the stadium took just as long. Sure, it isn’t always ideal to be travelling on the tube everywhere – especially if you have a couple of very large bags, but, it is certainly cheaper and quicker and easier than having to organise taxis or work out the buses. Travel would have been a pain regardless of where the event was held.

Food price wise, didn’t seem too excessive. Cost me £4 for nachos, where a burger and chips came to about £6.50. Wasn’t a great deal of food, but, hardly the wallet shattering cost of most places. For example, a pizza in my hotel the evening before the event cost me £14, with a beer costing me another ~£6. Any venue will have higher prices. All I did on Saturday evening was drop into one of the food courts at the Olympic part centre on the way back to the tube station and got something for half the price.

In regards to list submission and dyslexia, I’m sorry, but it isn’t an excuse to have an incorrect list. There are so many tools and people out there to help check things that any issues with illegal/incorrect lists lies with the writer. Sure, due to the timing of the FAQ, just over 2 weeks wasn’t ideal, BUT, it is still plenty of time to design a list and check it line by line dozens of times. Players then had 3 weeks after submission to prepare the physical list AND fix any issues found between submission date and the event date. Most lists were also checked on the google doc page and issues highlighted.
As for points cost issues in your own list, again, if you have extreme issues with numbers there are people and aids out there. Brand brand brand new players will of course potentially experience issues with list construction, but, I doubt there were many – if any, at the event.

I agree that the layout and support for people with certain disabilities wasn’t great. Things could certainly have been done way better in this regard.

Terrain was functional, but embarrassing for a “European leading” event.

Organisation was pretty piss poor as well.

Final scoring – I have no idea what my final event score was. I know how many points I got from gaming, but I can’t find anywhere that tells me what my total event score was. Did I lose points for my list, or was it ok? I’m guessing my painting score was fine cos no one checked it, but I don’t know. Sportmanship score?
Edit – just found the final rankings (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DIRs_CZsfrKfBDelZa_tVUrlkSgyk-Koevd-wQH1RrU/edit#gid=0)
Not got 100% confidence in the scoring for everyone though, as no one seems to have been given the correct points for list submission. I’m also pretty sure there were more than 29 late and incorrect lists when I was doing some list checking.

The whole thing kinda makes me wish I had the ability to just run the whole thing myself with a team.

I have server dyslexia (An example of how bad, I literally cant see/read music notes, it looks like spinning crossed eye lines with moving dots), and i think the same, there is no reason to not have a proper list, battlescribe/spreadsheets with internet for help and others, along with calculators etc... there is no excuse. (Honestly i'm on forums so much is to practice, i have a list of things to work on everyday, it does help.. a bit, but only with some words, pictures/directions and memory doesnt tho).

I think my original post was a bit too blunt, so, I want to quickly apologise if I offended anyone with it.

If it really is a problem, then, I believe the player should be able to highlight this in confidence with the organisers, and the organisers would then provide aid to the player.

@Amishprn86 I really do commend you for the efforts you’re putting in, on here and your approach to getting things right!

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm sorry but I can't agree with this sentiment. I recognize the problems that these people may have but where do you draw the line? If someone is morbidly obese do you give them more room or a bigger chair so that they are more comfortable?

Well, yes? It's something that would be done at a good LGS if it was available, why should it be any different at a tournament?

When you go to a competitive event then you are there to compete doing your best while your opponent does the same. The game should be level for both players. If one or both of the players have special needs then they should account for it when playing or, if they feel that they can't compete without some special help they should look for an event that caters to that problem.

I don't see how catering to someone with a disability that they cannot remedy is somehow going to threaten the balance or level of a game (which in my opinion is horribly balanced anyway if we're talking 40k, but that's a topic for another thread); giving someone with dyspraxia extra time to finish a game is hardly going to tip the balance one way or another, especially when they actually could need that time to finish.

Even if you disagree with this, it's something that should be done; the only alternatives would be to ignore it, or recommend players who have these conditions to not partake in the tournament, and if that's going to be the case, then GT will have a big problem keeping people from having a bad taste in their mouth at the event's ethical conduct.

 General Annoyance wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm sorry but I can't agree with this sentiment. I recognize the problems that these people may have but where do you draw the line? If someone is morbidly obese do you give them more room or a bigger chair so that they are more comfortable?

Well, yes? It's something that would be done at a good LGS if it was available, why should it be any different at a tournament?

When you go to a competitive event then you are there to compete doing your best while your opponent does the same. The game should be level for both players. If one or both of the players have special needs then they should account for it when playing or, if they feel that they can't compete without some special help they should look for an event that caters to that problem.

I don't see how catering to someone with a disability that they cannot remedy is somehow going to threaten the balance or level of a game (which in my opinion is horribly balanced anyway if we're talking 40k, but that's a topic for another thread); giving someone with dyspraxia extra time to finish a game is hardly going to tip the balance one way or another, especially when they actually could need that time to finish.

Even if you disagree with this, it's something that should be done; the only alternatives would be to ignore it, or recommend players who have these conditions to not partake in the tournament, and if that's going to be the case, then GT will have a big problem keeping people from having a bad taste in their mouth at the event's ethical conduct.

I'd also think that a number of anti discrimination laws etc would be very close if maybe not being broken.

But morally and publicly is that the view we want to have of 40k players, unwilling to help and discriminatory?

How on Earth is "too capitalistic" a valid criticism of a wargaming tournament?

And what do you mean by it? I'm utterly at a loss to understand this.

PS - it's "brick and mortar," not "brick and motor."

AdmiralHalsey wrote:



I couldn't care less about the price of beer. Tax is a thing, and it's an expensive drink.
I took issue with the price of bottled water. A large glass' worth was £3.50, on a hot day, [Around 21 degrees C] in an event with precious little ventilation, and lots of windows to let in the sunlight, and a two day ban on so much as bringing your own bottle to drink with,
There's a difference in charging for luxuries, and extorting your customers so they don't suffer heatstroke and dehyradition.

LOL, 21 degrees=hot Ah it's a big old world isn't it.

But people can't bring their own bottles? That's just obnoxious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:


What qualifies as "hot" in the UK is as hilarious to me, as I'm sure what qualifies as "cold" in Texas is hilarious to you. As I type this, it's 27 C outside, and I was just remarking how beautiful the weather is. We hit 38 C last week twice.

We hit 44C/111F in Delhi today. I'm thinking I might take off my tie.

Where do you find the time to give someone with a disability more time to play their round? Every tournament schedule is always packed. Its simply not feasible.

Having a separate table for someone with a wheelchair or on crutches is another matter entirely especially in an otherwise crowded setup.
Tho you would need to contact the TO so they know to set it up.