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Made in au
Human Auxiliary to the Empire




*laughs in T'au*

 Vaktathi wrote:
My guess is that this may be an attempt to make an all-knight list at least somewhat viable, giving Knights access to play with certain mechanics normally left to distinct specialists (like assassins) for the couple of instances where they'd need *something* in order to be viable.
Not something I'd considered but totally makes sense with them getting their own codex and all. Even if they're a little pricey it would be an idea to maybe give some to one of your knights for a 'just in case'.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





another thing to consider is a pure IK army lacks psykers, thge missile isn't that much better then a smite in many cases

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Denver

This could change some things at the FLGS level. From an ITC competitive standpoint most tables should have ruins so you can easily block LoS without losing too much character utility. Psykers would have it worse but ruins should let you have at least one turn in before you even have the risk of losing one to this stratagem.

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Made in nz
Fresh-Faced New User






I'd also add that looking at this weapon in isolation is problematic. Missiles and monster flamer and harpoon gun and stratagems and a buffed version of the stomp attacks and it will be a game changer imho. Let's wait and see the whole picture. Of course speculation is still fun though :-) I GW are not going to release a new model at this price point and it be a dud. It will probably be marginally overpowered with stats so that it sells well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/30 01:35:28


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gulf Breeze Florida

It's a slightly better Medusa Siege Cannon from the looks of it


 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

Alpharius Walks wrote:
This could change some things at the FLGS level. From an ITC competitive standpoint most tables should have ruins so you can easily block LoS without losing too much character utility. Psykers would have it worse but ruins should let you have at least one turn in before you even have the risk of losing one to this stratagem.

Strat ignores los too.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Xenomancers wrote:
Tyel wrote:
 greyknight12 wrote:
Most of the rumors have this missile mounted on a platform that costs around 600-700 points, so it's unlikely to make that much of a difference. Over the course of a game killing RG might be worthwhile, but most other support characters either a) travel in packs (like AM) or b) only really matter for one turn (like Custodes). And specifically in the case of RG and his gunline, a knight is pretty easy to remove in a turn.


I might be missing something, there are probably perks and stratagems - but 700 points doesn't buy you the defensive stats of 2.5 Predators with a moderate invul.

Cards on the table - I don't like knights, I kind of like the fact they suck and so don't tend to appear on tables - but I can't believe GW would do that.
Leaving aside a calculation on damage, what is a loaded out Storm Surge? Around 400 points? I guess you can say 8 more wounds, one point more toughness, but I am not seeing it.
This new super knight is going to cost at least 700 points. Storm surges cost 400ish depending on build but it has no where near the firepower of this knight - it's only t7 with 0 close combat ability too.

I think the preferred build for the super knight with be 4 mini battle cannons super flamer and super plasma.


Rumours say you can field 3 of those barely in 1850.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
another thing to consider is a pure IK army lacks psykers, thge missile isn't that much better then a smite in many cases


You mean apart from being long range, ignore LOS, and shoot what you want rather than closest?-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius Walks wrote:
This could change some things at the FLGS level. From an ITC competitive standpoint most tables should have ruins so you can easily block LoS without losing too much character utility. Psykers would have it worse but ruins should let you have at least one turn in before you even have the risk of losing one to this stratagem.


That strategem means it ignores not only character rule but LOS so ruin is useless. Only way to give 100% protection is be inside transport. Which means also no CP recycling or casting until you come out.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/30 03:39:49


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






i dont see how this will change anything.

problem whit mono IK is the hefty price tag of the knights meaning you cant bring many of them and they dont require alot of effort to take down whit the huge amount of anti tank units every army has.
plus how is a mono IK list even fun to play agasint if you bring it to the FLGS for some drop in games?

IK belongs in apocalypse games, not standard 1750-2000p games IMO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 04:16:45


darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well they are getting point drops. 12% for crusader for example. 3 knights plus ig isn't impossible.

As for fun...old dated view. You yourself said they aren't that tough. One could ask with more valid reasons what fun is facing eldars

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Daedalus81 wrote:
This has the potential with IG providing enough CP to put pain on the popular lists out there.

It can light up RG or a Vexilus given enough CP for damage rerolls...if it hits, which might be the saving grace here.

So what do you think? Is this going to force people back to lascannons and proper gunlines?




Guillamen still gets a 5+ in cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 TommyBoy13 wrote:

I'd also add that looking at this weapon in isolation is problematic. Missiles and monster flamer and harpoon gun and stratagems and a buffed version of the stomp attacks and it will be a game changer imho. Let's wait and see the whole picture. Of course speculation is still fun though :-) I GW are not going to release a new model at this price point and it be a dud. It will probably be marginally overpowered with stats so that it sells well.


GW doesn't know enough about the game to release something deliberately over or underpowered. At least not without getting a unanimous 'yeah, that's op' from the community.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 05:37:19



 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




My immediate thought was that this is horrifically overpowered, since it’s broadly ‘Flip a coin. If heads, your opponent’s Warlord dies.’

On further consideration though, I think I’m looking at it through the lens of my own army. Black Templars are utterly dependent on 4-6 Wound support characters to operate even in a friendly environment. Being able to bypass character targeting protection, 2+, 3++/4++ and line of sight to snipe out a character from a horde and (with a CP reroll backup) have a not inconsiderable chance of one-shotting the crutch holding up the entire army just feels unfair.

My faction being a garbage fire shouldn’t mean that other factions can’t have nice things, though. So good for Knights that they got something scary. I don’t think it’ll make a huge impact on the meta - since there isn’t really anything that can counter it easily so just hoping for the best seems the best strategy - but it’ll certainly mess up some casual games the world over.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





kombatwombat wrote:
My immediate thought was that this is horrifically overpowered, since it’s broadly ‘Flip a coin. If heads, your opponent’s Warlord dies.’

On further consideration though, I think I’m looking at it through the lens of my own army. Black Templars are utterly dependent on 4-6 Wound support characters to operate even in a friendly environment. Being able to bypass character targeting protection, 2+, 3++/4++ and line of sight to snipe out a character from a horde and (with a CP reroll backup) have a not inconsiderable chance of one-shotting the crutch holding up the entire army just feels unfair.

My faction being a garbage fire shouldn’t mean that other factions can’t have nice things, though. So good for Knights that they got something scary. I don’t think it’ll make a huge impact on the meta - since there isn’t really anything that can counter it easily so just hoping for the best seems the best strategy - but it’ll certainly mess up some casual games the world over.


Yeah orks are in similar boat as without several of our support characters orks gets decked.

OTOH knights looks to be rather vulnerable against hordes which orks currently are(they don't have even close of viable non-horde build) so maybe that evens out? Plus of course orks still are to get their own codex so new codex maybe reduces their dependance on holy trio of da jump/kff/painboy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 06:13:12


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Depends if Barons let us reroll, how many other modifiers there are, etc.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






You can only fire it once per game. Also, why not just pick the sniepr who has the exsact same weapon basically?
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Better AP, D6 rather than D3 Damage and no LoS required maybe?
   
Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Also, this basically makes Orks the only faction with no sniper now. XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
kombatwombat wrote:
Better AP, D6 rather than D3 Damage and no LoS required maybe?


But I can likely feild 5 of them for every single knight and also get the odd d6 when you role a 6. Also hits and wound on a 2 basically and at -3 ap ignoring invulnerables a lot of units are going to auto die. Remember, a knight could still role ac1 on that d6.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 08:32:22


 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Pretty much useless. Spend ~600-700 pts. and probably 3 CP (1 for re-roll) for a ~25% chance to kill a 100-200 pts. character ? Ridiculous.
   
Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






 p5freak wrote:
Pretty much useless. Spend ~600-700 pts. and probably 3 CP (1 for re-roll) for a ~25% chance to kill a 100-200 pts. character ? Ridiculous.


But you still got that 80" weapon on yah, or those 3d3 auto hiting 2d flamers or maybe that thing that can do like 50 wounds. Xd
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 lolman1c wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Pretty much useless. Spend ~600-700 pts. and probably 3 CP (1 for re-roll) for a ~25% chance to kill a 100-200 pts. character ? Ridiculous.


But you still got that 80" weapon on yah, or those 3d3 auto hiting 2d flamers or maybe that thing that can do like 50 wounds. Xd


Yes, but this is not about the knight, we are talking about this missile.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
Pretty much useless. Spend ~600-700 pts. and probably 3 CP (1 for re-roll) for a ~25% chance to kill a 100-200 pts. character ? Ridiculous.


You know that's really disingenuous to day 600 points to kill a charictor as if thats all your doing what are both arm weapons, carapace autocannons and multimeltas? Doing?

Ok the harpoon is short range but S16 -6AP D11-13, that's enough to one shot a predator or leman russ so 160+ points back from one weapon, a 3D6 shot S7 -2Ap 2D weapon won't have a hard time finding targets that will bring back over 100 points worth, you, still have 2 multimelta and carpace autocannons to push the points killed to over 300 from a single round of shooting before you play charictor assasin.

And you can bet even with the IG CP farm knights lists will be in the 8-9 drop zone so have a good chance of going first.
   
Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






 p5freak wrote:
 lolman1c wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Pretty much useless. Spend ~600-700 pts. and probably 3 CP (1 for re-roll) for a ~25% chance to kill a 100-200 pts. character ? Ridiculous.


But you still got that 80" weapon on yah, or those 3d3 auto hiting 2d flamers or maybe that thing that can do like 50 wounds. Xd


Yes, but this is not about the knight, we are talking about this missile.


But you're not only going to fire the missile and then never use any of its other weapons. So saying something is 700pts but only kills a 100pts model is ignoring the other hundred or so points it will also kill alongside the character. If anything this is a bonus to an already strong unit.

I mean 1 if it's weapons has a chance to fire twice if you use a strat and straight up do 10 damage. That's basically an auto delte of most tank hnits like rhinos.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 09:06:26


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 lolman1c wrote:
You can only fire it once per game. Also, why not just pick the sniepr who has the exsact same weapon basically?


Apart from that sniper being one model which isn't as tough it also doesn't cause d6 wounds. Oh and you need special detachment that costs CP or multiples of them. This one slots among other knights nicely.

Not to mention that vindicare has mini volcano cannon, boosted up plasma gun, boasts T8/3+/5++ and 28 wounds since when? It's not like those missiles are even primary weapons of that knight but secondaries...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 p5freak wrote:
Pretty much useless. Spend ~600-700 pts. and probably 3 CP (1 for re-roll) for a ~25% chance to kill a 100-200 pts. character ? Ridiculous.


Ah yes that 600-700 pts obviously is not doing anything else. Not like 11.666 wounds against most T7 stuff per turn plus what you can do 2d6 S8 -3 D2 shots and that's not even through weapon list.

Yep yep. 600-700 just for one missile. Obviously. How have I been so blind!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 p5freak wrote:
 lolman1c wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Pretty much useless. Spend ~600-700 pts. and probably 3 CP (1 for re-roll) for a ~25% chance to kill a 100-200 pts. character ? Ridiculous.


But you still got that 80" weapon on yah, or those 3d3 auto hiting 2d flamers or maybe that thing that can do like 50 wounds. Xd


Yes, but this is not about the knight, we are talking about this missile.


So apart from a) you need to look package b) why you are then looking at price of non-missile to talk about missile? You are doing double standard. Take price of knight and complain missile suck because you pay for stuff you don't use.

Well gee. I complain Guillimann's shooting attack is too weak because it's not worth the 400 pts or so he costs.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/30 10:19:30


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 godardc wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
It is 1d6 in a meta where the scary characters are above 7 wounds, and -4 AP when all the scary characters have AT LEAST 5++, with some like mort and gulliman going further. No, this doesnt change much.


It bypasses the invu saves
I think he's referring to FnP and it's equivalents.
   
Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Big question though... will the ork stompa get a huge upgrade to equal him out with this new knight?
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well with points he needs to be better. But that's for ork codex. Now impossible to tell. GW might just as well nerf it.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

This thread is about the missile, not the knight. If you want to discuss the knight do it somewhere else. In order to use that missile you have to spend something like 600-700 pts.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 lolman1c wrote:
Big question though... will the ork stompa get a huge upgrade to equal him out with this new knight?

Or the Wraithknight?

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Hahahah...moh man! I super want GW to nerf the stompa (a 1k points model that often dies turn 1 XD) just to see the look on everyones face!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 p5freak wrote:
This thread is about the missile, not the knight. If you want to discuss the knight do it somewhere else. In order to use that missile you have to spend something like 600-700 pts.


I order to use a tact marines squad in a 2k tournament you have to bring 2k points. Doesn't mean a single tact marine squad should be worth 2k points.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/30 10:58:06


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 p5freak wrote:
This thread is about the missile, not the knight. If you want to discuss the knight do it somewhere else. In order to use that missile you have to spend something like 600-700 pts.


If you want to dismiss missile because of 600-700 pts you MUST factor in knight. End of story.

"Heavy bolter on shadowsword sucks! I need to pay 400 pts for it!"

You either don't bring knight into talk including point cost of knight or you look at the unit. No arqument about that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/30 10:59:16


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in vn
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






tneva82 wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
This thread is about the missile, not the knight. If you want to discuss the knight do it somewhere else. In order to use that missile you have to spend something like 600-700 pts.


If you want to dismiss missile because of 600-700 pts you MUST factor in knight. End of story.

"Heavy bolter on shadowsword sucks! I need to pay 400 pts for it!"

You either don't bring knight into talk including point cost of knight or you look at the unit. No arqument about that.


Damn man! My baneblades cc attack sucks! Can't believe I paid half my armies points for this!
   
 
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