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 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, but 20 years is a long time to be broke

Welcome to the lives of the vast majority of people. I know some folk around here seem to think we've all got Warlord Titan money in our loose change jar and all the "my poor wallet" comments are just jokes, but there are plenty of hobbyists who don't have hundreds of quid just sitting around waiting for GW to put things on Last Chance(or just delete them entirely, as here), nor can they buy up a bunch of stuff for a project they might not get around to for ages without neglecting a project they're working on right now. I've been there plenty of times myself over the years.

And lets not pretend GW's finances were groaning and straining desperately to keep a couple of wee bins full of metals and a shelf worth of molds lying about, that email answer is a farce - if they actually had to get rid of these to make room for new stuff, they need to be investing in new warehousing and production facilities, not rearranging the deckchairs by canning a few piddly little old Guard models.

Third party companies will probably pick up the Vostorian look, or at least I hope so, because they were awesome!

I'm surprised they offered those ranges as long as they did. I expected them to go OOP right after Finecast and the major shift to plastic for everything including characters. The last couple years were borrowed time.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
So the title pretty much sums it up. All the old (and not so old) metal infantry regiments are OOP and "no longer available" on the GW website.

https://victoriaminiatures.com/





For the Guard Player the world has moved on...

 Peregrine wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
Why they never made plastic DKoK I'll never know.

Because resin DKoK are superior?

I normally would agree with the sentiment of resin being better, but I disagree with this about the DKoK. I had but and painted a full army back in 2008, and well over a 1/3rd of the rifles I got were broken at the barrel in shipping. And the pieces are so small and flexible that fixing them took forever (and inevitably they would break again when a stiff breeze came through). I'm not sure if FW changed the resin they used for the DKoK, but I would never buy any of them again bar the thicker barreled Stormtroopers.


That said, it appears in the grim darkness of the 41st millennia there is only Cadians (with awful models nonetheless). What a bummer.

Dammit, where do people email to put pressure on GW for a last chance to buy? Costumer support?

Supposedly the ig are getting something in the near future, if the local rep isn't full of it. No specifics, but in response to questions about this. Greatcoat guard would be my completely baseless guess. But we are returning to Orks and Orks mean Armageddon. Fingers crossed.

 Peregrine wrote:
TBH, is this really surprising to anyone? We know GW wants to get rid of the last of their metal products so they can dump that production line entirely. The bigger surprise to me is that those models lasted so long despite being obsolete sculpts in the worst material.

"obsolete sculpts"
"worst material"

...the hyperbole is strong in this one.

On its worst day, metal is still superior to Finecast - and given GW's pricing model, better than plastic for single-pose characters.

As for obsolete sculpts, the Steel Legion and Vostroyans, at the very least, are superior to either plastic infantry range for the IG.

 Dysartes wrote:
On its worst day, metal is still superior to Finecast - and given GW's pricing model, better than plastic for single-pose characters.

Finecast doesn't count. It isn't a material, it's a shelf decoration that no sane and informed person would ever buy. Of the materials that can produce usable models, not just deformed lumps that go straight into the trash, metal is the worst. It's the hardest to clean up before painting, hardest to assemble, most vulnerable to chipping, most limited in its pose/detail options, and by far the most difficult to convert.

As for obsolete sculpts, the Steel Legion and Vostroyans, at the very least, are superior to either plastic infantry range for the IG.

That's arguable. Some of those models were ok, some of them were on about the same level with the same weird proportions (a problem that seems to be shared by most of GW's earlier sculpts). And a lot of them really showed their obsolescence in the severe limits that metal puts on posing options. They weren't bad for their time, but they're definitely not up to the level of modern plastic/resin kits.


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 Sabotage! wrote:
I normally would agree with the sentiment of resin being better, but I disagree with this about the DKoK. I had but and painted a full army back in 2008, and well over a 1/3rd of the rifles I got were broken at the barrel in shipping. And the pieces are so small and flexible that fixing them took forever (and inevitably they would break again when a stiff breeze came through). I'm not sure if FW changed the resin they used for the DKoK, but I would never buy any of them again bar the thicker barreled Stormtroopers.

On the other hand, I have had few/no problems with broken weapons on mine and the thin models are part of the appeal. Their guns are actually 28mm scale, unlike the giant blocky lasguns of the plastic kits. Plastic versions are going to be almost as fragile unless they sacrifice detail quality for durability, at which point I'll just buy recasts of the originals instead.

The Voystroyans were pure 40K. Shame to see them go.

And weird that this would happen without a Last Chance to Buy.

Maybe GW proper were jealous of the multiple-weeks of un-releases FW were doing and wanted in on the action, although did it in the typical GW style of too much, too fast.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Voystroyans were pure 40K. Shame to see them go.

And weird that this would happen without a Last Chance to Buy.

Maybe GW proper were jealous of the multiple-weeks of un-releases FW were doing and wanted in on the action, although did it in the typical GW style of too much, too fast.

Uh oh, what if GW make it a multiple week thing too. Hold me I am scared.

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Dammit, where do people email to put pressure on GW for a last chance to buy? Costumer support?

People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.

 Kirasu wrote:

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Dammit, where do people email to put pressure on GW for a last chance to buy? Costumer support?

People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.

Exault.

That being said I wish GW would do regular rotations, monthly Made to Order or whatever, nothing like a ticking clock to focus the mind.

Not true for me, last chance and made to order puts the fear of missing out straight into my brain. Its probably the most effective way to make me spend money

Plenty of metal minis on their way out I am buying to own a complete catalogue for example sister of battle army one of each, imperial guard and much more. If I knew these would go out first I would focus my purchasing power on them.

Personally, I 100% believe that GW should just put every model they still have a mould for, but no longer sell, on permanent made to order.

This, of course, would likely result in a slight increase in cost per model for us, but, it would solve all the problems associated with “legacy” models.

However, it is likely that this would require a fair amount of investment in GWs current production facility in order to accommodate such a move.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, but 20 years is a long time to be broke

there are plenty of hobbyists who don't have hundreds of quid just sitting around waiting for GW to put things on Last Chance

GW is a true luxury hobby, pay to play

 Kirasu wrote:
People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.

This may be true in some businesses, where buying or not is more of a binary thing, but it's not a very appropriate principle for a collecting product like 40k. The whole concept of the game is that you start off with an initial purchase and keep adding to your collection over time. If a person buys a starter box and says "I'll probably get that tank soon" it's very likely that they'll do exactly that. They just aren't going to drop thousands of dollars on every model they could ever possibly want, not all at once. Most people have at least some idea of a ranked priority list for their purchases, to be bought as time and money permit. So trying to apply your rule to 40k would result in GW dropping everything but starter boxes and the game dying soon after.

Now, it's possibly true that even if you believe some of the customers the now-OOP models wouldn't have sold well enough to justify keeping the last remains of GW's metal production lines in an era of all-plastic goals. But GW is almost certainly giving up sales from people who didn't buy them immediately but would have bought them in the future.

Oh yeah, for the record, GW had Imperial Guard available for preorder as Made To Order back in October 2016 - more than a year-and-a-half ago. Really, no excuses

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW is a true luxury hobby, pay to play

There's a huge difference between "pay to play" and "at all times keep a reserve fund sufficient to cover all models you could ever want to buy just in case they go OOP" or "as soon as you start in the hobby buy everything you could possibly ever want, regardless of the cost".

 Kirasu wrote:

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Dammit, where do people email to put pressure on GW for a last chance to buy? Costumer support?

People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.

That's manure, and it's already been explained why it's manure. Not everyone has zero self-control and the budget to just buy what they like when they like.

Besides which, again, what was it costing GW to keep these available - a shelf for the molds, a couple of buckets for the stock, and a casting run every year or two at most? And none of this "they want to get rid of metal" stuff, because they're happy enough to cast new metal stuff for Legends/Last Chance sales, they're not getting rid of the necessary equipment. Christ you'd think even presenting the appearance that they still supported the more varied concept of the Guard from back before they got Latinicus Nameicus'd would be worth that meagre expenditure, it's not like there's some gargantuan opportunity cost at play here, if they're such a tiny part of the business that it's not worth keeping them around on the basis of sales, then they're also too tiny a part of the business for canning them to make any appreciable difference to the company's bottom line.

 Peregrine wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW is a true luxury hobby, pay to play

There's a huge difference between "pay to play" and "at all times keep a reserve fund sufficient to cover all models you could ever want to buy just in case they go OOP" or "as soon as you start in the hobby buy everything you could possibly ever want, regardless of the cost".

Well bloody said. I swear sometimes the snobbery fairly drips off some folk on this forum.

 Peregrine wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW is a true luxury hobby, pay to play

There's a huge difference between "pay to play" and "at all times keep a reserve fund sufficient to cover all models you could ever want to buy just in case they go OOP" or "as soon as you start in the hobby buy everything you could possibly ever want, regardless of the cost".

QFT.

Unless you buy everything all when you start, or have a technically infinite sized reserve to drop on units that may or may not go out of production, there's always that risk that you might not be able to pick something up before it goes bust.

I wanted to pick up Renegade when it first came out. However, on the budget I was on, buying it was out of the question. I'm glad it's come back, but by now, I've already built up a small Knight Force already. If I had the gift of foresight, I may have delayed it for this - but unfortunately, I can't plan that far ahead.

Sounds like you lucked out a bit with your DKoK Peregrine, or they changed the resin formula. Back when I was putting my army together most people I saw seemed to have the compliant that the gun barrels broke in shipping. I do agree the true 28mm scale on them is great and they do look really nice, I will say though I would probably prefer them in plastic though even if that meant thickening them up a bit. The Escher lasgun/pistol barrels are pretty thin for plastic and are pretty durable. At least at the time I purchased them the resin was just too brittle. I will say the force of Elysians I put together a few years back was much better, though that may just be the gun design.

More on topic though, it is disappointing they discontinued the metal ranges (I thought the Vostroyans and Steel Legion are pretty nice), especially without a warning period to give those without an infinite hobby budget to have a month or so to purchase anything they may be missing.

Here's hoping to a new plastic IG regiment made to the quality of the GSC or Mechanicus troops. The original Cadian and Catachan plastics are just awfully proportioned.

Nope. Either you bother to buy something or not. It's that simple. If you don't get it before it is gone, 6hen it wasn't important after all

Only true if you have infinite money. But for me I have to pick a few items each order. The Valhallans were on my list of to buy. But i put metal sister of battle higher on the list since i believed they would be gone faster then the valhallans because of the coming rework. In 3-4 months i would have got them. Not because they are less important then sisters of battle but because i believed they would stay longer.
A last chance to buy period is important for a lot of people!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Nope. Either you bother to buy something or not. It's that simple. If you don't get it before it is gone, 6hen it wasn't important after all

So every 40k player should buy several copies of every single model the day they pick up their first starter set, and if they don't do so then it wasn't important and they can't complain?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Spoiler:

https://victoriaminiatures.com/





For the Guard Player the world has moved on...

If only that meant you could play on GW store and official tournaments with those gorgeous miniatures!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If only that meant you could play on GW store and official tournaments with those gorgeous miniatures!

Why would you want to play in GW stores? Do you not have independent stores/clubs there?

It is really shame about Vostroyans, they were really unique. Other old ranges can pretty easily be created from various third party sources, but I don't think anyone produces anything quite like them. I absolutely detest working with metal and I still have some of them as they're such lovely models, officers in particular.

 Yodhrin wrote:
And lets not pretend GW's finances were groaning and straining desperately to keep a couple of wee bins full of metals and a shelf worth of molds lying about, that email answer is a farce - if they actually had to get rid of these to make room for new stuff, they need to be investing in new warehousing and production facilities, not rearranging the deckchairs by canning a few piddly little old Guard models.

Actually, you're wrong here - they might have been straining to keep metal models in production seeing they maxed out their power line the town allowed and physically can't invest into more plastic making machines until new line is approved and built. That's why you have plastic models go out of stock for weeks or even months - because better sellers have priority, some plastic molds are stuck in the queue for a very long time, sometimes indefinitely. Given the above, someone might have took a look at the lone, sad metal spinner in the corner, asked "do we really need this thing around when all it does is producing a handful of very old models people don't really buy" and decided to replace it with another plastic machine to fix more pressing concerns.

This is also why we didn't got LCTB - if they unplugged the machine, they can't make the stuff anymore, at least until the power problems are solved, and decided to be honest about it...

 Dysartes wrote:
On its worst day, metal is still superior to Finecast - and given GW's pricing model, better than plastic for single-pose characters.

Nope. Finecast they used in Centos, Marbo, Veridian, and the rest of recent resin guys is now considerably superior to metal, both better detail and ease of build and modify, plus less production errors.

If people buy stuff often companies keep it available.
If they don’t, they won’t.

It’s amazing that 10+ year-old models have been available all this time, so it’s not surprising to see these go.


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 Peregrine wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Nope. Either you bother to buy something or not. It's that simple. If you don't get it before it is gone, 6hen it wasn't important after all

So every 40k player should buy several copies of every single model the day they pick up their first starter set, and if they don't do so then it wasn't important and they can't complain?

If you’ve had a decade or so... no, no you can’t complain.