ph34r wrote:


I haven’t seen them being used either but is that maybe because straight up nobody owns the models?

Styrix for 475 has a 4++, 5++ in close combat, take the regeneration relic, some sort of warlord trait like reroll 1s to hit or taranis, have an enginseer follow it around, who is going to kill that?

tneva82 wrote:
Played my first game with full knight army and with new toys. List was as I posted so castellan with 2 siege breakers, 4++ and cawl's wrath, crusader with thermal cannon and meltagun, errant with heavy stubber, 2 individual helverins and warglaive with meltagun. 2 raven detachments. Crusader got relic gatling gun so started with 8 CP. Oh and errant had warlord trait of 1 reroll and 1 CP so basically free one reroll(this is IMO one of the most silly traits. If you don't want to spend extra CP's for warlord traits you get one free reroll. If you take any other CP's you will then pay 1 CP for one reroll which is too expensive).

I was up against dark eldars with 3 or maybe 4 venoms with kabalites, huge 12 strong bike squad, couple HQ's, 3 cronos, 3 ravagers(one with dark lances, one with disintegrators, don't recall what other had). scourges with heat lances, scourges with haywires. Maybe something else. We played tactical gambit with vanquard deployment(the one where you are basically on quarters).

He deep striked bunch of stuff failing to regenerate CP's so after I had deployed my army all he had was warlord that went there to try CP regeneration. I got first turn but he seized. Drat. So basically he came forward fast and blew warglaive and hurt my crusader big time. To put theme to the game I failed 5 out of 7 4++ rolls. Gee. TYVM.

I circled around terrain hoping to do some hurt. I started shooting phase with raven strategem but annoyingly it was cancelled. BTW knights have precious few ways to prevent that. We have nothing really in before first shooting phase to draw it and it's first thing in shooting phase so I couldn't even tempt him to prevent something else in shooting. Not that we have anything he would want to prevent more than this...So castellan had to shoot without it. To ensure -1 to hit strategem wasn't going to screw me completely I split(plus besides otherwise soft targets so no point overkilling). I started with missile using strategem hoping to get rid of warlord. 1 to hit...Well drat. Command reroll. Hit. 1 to wound...Oh bummer.

Volcano lance against squadron of 3 cronos figuring that's good because each hit could kill one and as there's more less chance of hits going miss. It was that or ravagers but problem with ravagers would be due to terrain I was scarily close to the cronoses. Anyway moot point. 1 shot, hit, 1 wound...WTF?

At this point I was more than desperate so declaring overcharge with cawl's wrath it and the shoulder cannons I had assigned with it just to be safe fired at one ravager that blew up. Even this was BARELY as bad rolling and -1 to hit strategem played hurt me. Oh and 3 wounds to castellan for my trouble. 1 stinking ravager killed. I was hoping more.

Crusader fired at cronos. Think I Was too affraid though idea of letting them hit castellan was scary. Maybe they don't reach, maybe they might not hurt it. Either way didn't want to risk it. Thermal lance did good job killing 2(yey) but endless fury failed utterly to even hurt damn thing.

Errant failed to do anything and crusader's charge ate blaster for extra 6 damage and caused just 1 wound to biker. DRAT!

His 2nd turn scourges came in. One tried to hurt castellan for light effort, another wrecked helverin. In combat he wrecked poor crusader though only barely. Surviving cronos that had come to help just in case failed to actually hurt making me think I really overestimated them and wrecking jetbikes with endless fury would have been better.

By now VP's were 7-2 as he had better luck with them. Actually for next 2 turns I got NOTHING that I could even really hope to do...

My 2nd turn and it was Castellans shining moment. Moving up it triggered raven strategem and he had only 1 CP left so couldn't stop it. HAH! Splitting my guns to maximum effect volcano lance vaporized disintegrator ravager. 3 wounding hits, 9d3 damage rerolling 1's. BOOOM! Cawl's wrath blew out last ravager. BLAM! Shoulder guns(and missile which I wasted) dropped last cronos. And melta guns dropped venom that had came nearby to take objective. Now that's more like it!

Elsewhere errant moved forward not doing much with guns and trying to charge both bikes and venom(venom in case I roll short). I rolled short due to terrain -2 so went to venom instead destroying it and having it blow in face. Helverin charged(yes charged) scourges of mucha haywire mortal wounds failing to do anything.

Anyway rest of game was basically him hurting castellan slow and steady. Well actually steadily as my 4++ failed to work at all doing like 1 out of 6 saves. The way I Was rolling even rotating ion shield would have been useless piece of 3 CP wasted...Errant was tagged into combat with S5 bikes getting chipped steadily and prevented from getting out of combat so was stomping like crazy but 12 bikes with 6++ is surprisingly tough to clear away. Castellan managed to still finish off the scourges, cause 3 wounds to character that had come too far forward and kill bunch of other scourge unit before finally dying when 3 S8 d6 damage hits got in and I saved just 1. At this point with 20-3 vp's(I had stuff like hold 3 objectives(gee that's easy), defend objective 6(oh yeah that's the one as far from my units as possible behind big pile of dark eldars), kill character in h2h(yeah those that are behind huge pile of sacrificial minions) and have 3 units on my DZ with no enemy. Well by the time that got that was my entire army and there was scourge unit I was struggling to clear...TYVM!

That 1st turn hurt. Really hurt. He got to move boxing me in hurting objectives, he killed 1 knight and hurt 2nd with big pile of lousy saves and my return attack was pathetic due to some serious bad luck and mistarget with gatling gun...After that writing was on the wall. But at least castellan got to shine blowing whopping 4 units out out of the sky right away. Don't think I have ever managed to do that!

tneva82 wrote:
Played my first game with full knight army and with new toys. List was as I posted so castellan with 2 siege breakers, 4++ and cawl's wrath, crusader with thermal cannon and meltagun, errant with heavy stubber, 2 individual helverins and warglaive with meltagun. 2 raven detachments. Crusader got relic gatling gun so started with 8 CP. Oh and errant had warlord trait of 1 reroll and 1 CP so basically free one reroll(this is IMO one of the most silly traits. If you don't want to spend extra CP's for warlord traits you get one free reroll. If you take any other CP's you will then pay 1 CP for one reroll which is too expensive).

I was up against dark eldars with 3 or maybe 4 venoms with kabalites, huge 12 strong bike squad, couple HQ's, 3 cronos, 3 ravagers(one with dark lances, one with disintegrators, don't recall what other had). scourges with heat lances, scourges with haywires. Maybe something else. We played tactical gambit with vanquard deployment(the one where you are basically on quarters).

He deep striked bunch of stuff failing to regenerate CP's so after I had deployed my army all he had was warlord that went there to try CP regeneration. I got first turn but he seized. Drat. So basically he came forward fast and blew warglaive and hurt my crusader big time. To put theme to the game I failed 5 out of 7 4++ rolls. Gee. TYVM.

I circled around terrain hoping to do some hurt. I started shooting phase with raven strategem but annoyingly it was cancelled. BTW knights have precious few ways to prevent that. We have nothing really in before first shooting phase to draw it and it's first thing in shooting phase so I couldn't even tempt him to prevent something else in shooting. Not that we have anything he would want to prevent more than this...So castellan had to shoot without it. To ensure -1 to hit strategem wasn't going to screw me completely I split(plus besides otherwise soft targets so no point overkilling). I started with missile using strategem hoping to get rid of warlord. 1 to hit...Well drat. Command reroll. Hit. 1 to wound...Oh bummer.

Volcano lance against squadron of 3 cronos figuring that's good because each hit could kill one and as there's more less chance of hits going miss. It was that or ravagers but problem with ravagers would be due to terrain I was scarily close to the cronoses. Anyway moot point. 1 shot, hit, 1 wound...WTF?

At this point I was more than desperate so declaring overcharge with cawl's wrath it and the shoulder cannons I had assigned with it just to be safe fired at one ravager that blew up. Even this was BARELY as bad rolling and -1 to hit strategem played hurt me. Oh and 3 wounds to castellan for my trouble. 1 stinking ravager killed. I was hoping more.

Crusader fired at cronos. Think I Was too affraid though idea of letting them hit castellan was scary. Maybe they don't reach, maybe they might not hurt it. Either way didn't want to risk it. Thermal lance did good job killing 2(yey) but endless fury failed utterly to even hurt damn thing.

Errant failed to do anything and crusader's charge ate blaster for extra 6 damage and caused just 1 wound to biker. DRAT!

His 2nd turn scourges came in. One tried to hurt castellan for light effort, another wrecked helverin. In combat he wrecked poor crusader though only barely. Surviving cronos that had come to help just in case failed to actually hurt making me think I really overestimated them and wrecking jetbikes with endless fury would have been better.

By now VP's were 7-2 as he had better luck with them. Actually for next 2 turns I got NOTHING that I could even really hope to do...

My 2nd turn and it was Castellans shining moment. Moving up it triggered raven strategem and he had only 1 CP left so couldn't stop it. HAH! Splitting my guns to maximum effect volcano lance vaporized disintegrator ravager. 3 wounding hits, 9d3 damage rerolling 1's. BOOOM! Cawl's wrath blew out last ravager. BLAM! Shoulder guns(and missile which I wasted) dropped last cronos. And melta guns dropped venom that had came nearby to take objective. Now that's more like it!

Elsewhere errant moved forward not doing much with guns and trying to charge both bikes and venom(venom in case I roll short). I rolled short due to terrain -2 so went to venom instead destroying it and having it blow in face. Helverin charged(yes charged) scourges of mucha haywire mortal wounds failing to do anything.

Anyway rest of game was basically him hurting castellan slow and steady. Well actually steadily as my 4++ failed to work at all doing like 1 out of 6 saves. The way I Was rolling even rotating ion shield would have been useless piece of 3 CP wasted...Errant was tagged into combat with S5 bikes getting chipped steadily and prevented from getting out of combat so was stomping like crazy but 12 bikes with 6++ is surprisingly tough to clear away. Castellan managed to still finish off the scourges, cause 3 wounds to character that had come too far forward and kill bunch of other scourge unit before finally dying when 3 S8 d6 damage hits got in and I saved just 1. At this point with 20-3 vp's(I had stuff like hold 3 objectives(gee that's easy), defend objective 6(oh yeah that's the one as far from my units as possible behind big pile of dark eldars), kill character in h2h(yeah those that are behind huge pile of sacrificial minions) and have 3 units on my DZ with no enemy. Well by the time that got that was my entire army and there was scourge unit I was struggling to clear...TYVM!

That 1st turn hurt. Really hurt. He got to move boxing me in hurting objectives, he killed 1 knight and hurt 2nd with big pile of lousy saves and my return attack was pathetic due to some serious bad luck and mistarget with gatling gun...After that writing was on the wall. But at least castellan got to shine blowing whopping 4 units out out of the sky right away. Don't think I have ever managed to do that!

Wulfey wrote:
Welll a castellan can potentially bait out AGENTS_OF_VECT if you use OATHBREAKER on something valuable first. Maybe he makes a mistake.

EDIT: yes, thanks for sharing. More castellan data is always good. My wallet is starting to burn. Commentary: as much as there is some resistance to allying up knights to guard, even Duncan himself runs 30 guardsmen as peasants next to his own house GRIFFITH army.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Cheers for sharing. So sticking with the same units next game, or shaking things up?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Great battle report! Always good to know how knights actually do fare on the battlefield against different armies. I do think this is why Valiant is good. Its a generalist that can handle a lot of different type of units and situations. Everyone is saying Castellan is good, but I think Valiant is equally crucial in an all knight or heavy knight army.

You might think using that confrag cannon to melt a small unit of bikes or a 10 man squad of infantry is wasted. But it isn't. That 10 man squad or bike could later score a few objectives points.

 ph34r wrote:

Styrix for 475 has a 4++, 5++ in close combat, take the regeneration relic, some sort of warlord trait like reroll 1s to hit or taranis, have an enginseer follow it around, who is going to kill that?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So has anyone had Armigers Warglaives do... Well anything really? I've tried running 3 in a variety of IG and Admech lists and have had abysmal luck with them. Every Lance gets one shot, then misses most of the time (I have more hits with the carapace meltas ) and in CQC I have had very little success with either profiles.

I own several thanks to forgebane but it's get really annoying to see them flounder so much. I'm running them as Raven since my admech are Metallica, which you would think would help them but so far no luck.

I will say their mobility is excellent. I've never had an issue making a charge with them or getting them in the spot I want for the thermal Lance range. The issue is they just seem to be so unreliable in both shooting and assault. I tried a landstrider Gallant with them but that doesn't solve the underlying issue of hitting, they get around just fine. I assume I need something like the helm dominatus or the Raven banner for cqc, since the buff knights weapon isn't all that great.

tneva82 wrote:
Problem with that is that having over 500 pts out of game for 1 turn and then depend on having targets near flank AND making 9" charge(50-50 even if you have full reroll like orks) for 3CP is...pricey.

X078 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Problem with that is that having over 500 pts out of game for 1 turn and then depend on having targets near flank AND making 9" charge(50-50 even if you have full reroll like orks) for 3CP is...pricey.

It's not for every game but when the situation calls for it. Sometimes you outflank, sometimes you outflank in your own zone for protection, sometimes you just run up the board. And 500 points out of the game for 1 turn is better than 500 points getting shot of the board as i see it.
If you mostly want your units to perform from turn 1 then long range shooting is the go to, but beware when this or similar tactics is used against you in turn. Having 3 warglaives flank your Helverins is 500 points of Helverins getting deleted.

tneva82 wrote:
Own zone for protection works for shooty knights. But for armigers having to deploy close to own DZ and then sit there for a turn...You basically start further away than you would have and then can't even move on T1 so enemy will have free pass at shooting! Not to mention you do this before knowing who gets first turn to which you have +1 so more often than not enemy will get free round of fire anyway then and you start further in turn 2 when you finally move. And wasted getting T1.

X078 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Own zone for protection works for shooty knights. But for armigers having to deploy close to own DZ and then sit there for a turn...You basically start further away than you would have and then can't even move on T1 so enemy will have free pass at shooting! Not to mention you do this before knowing who gets first turn to which you have +1 so more often than not enemy will get free round of fire anyway then and you start further in turn 2 when you finally move. And wasted getting T1.

Depends on terrain and opponents army ofc and so on but if there is a risk of getting hit with first turn charges in my own zone, i would consider outflanking warglaives for a counter strike in my zone and deploying my forces accordingly to support this. Either way you have outflanking units which opponent needs to consider.

ragnorack1 wrote:
Kind of linked to the above but how do people feel about the FW Acheron instead of the Valiant? Bit cheaper, more mobile and slightly better in CC but lacks the raw fire power of the valiant.
One of them for dealing with stacked -ve to hit modifiers like eldar, preferring the Archeron over all as with the House raven tradition and sanctuary relic he'd be a decent candidate for first turn charges with the full tilt stratagem while still offering lot's of burninating, but wondering if its worth the 1d6 less on the flamer and carapace weapons the Valiant has?

tneva82 wrote:
Shadow doesn't really help them though. Whether they are behind of front or far away question is which enemy will feel to be bigger target to deal with first

 alleus wrote:
So if the general consensus is to use a Guard battalion with your Knights, what's the best "chapter tactic" (for lack of a better word, don't know what they are called) to use for them? Cadians feel the most obvious, since they are the only ones you can buy, but what about Death Korps, or Steel Legion? Forgeworlds DKoK models can be used for both, are they any good?