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BaronIveagh wrote: Well, today I started laughing at the point where Trump demanded that people not believe what they see with their own eyes, but they should instead believe him.
That's some 40k gak right there.
No, 40k level gak would be if Trump, after his death would be enshrined in the oval office and remain US president forever, with the people being urged to offer prayers to the Great Orange One. Curiously, despite being a corpse, Trump is still sending out ridiculous Tweets and dictating policies over Twitter. We are not quite there yet, but the US is definitely on the right track
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/24 21:38:19
"Who you gonna believe, your own lying eyes, or me, your golden god?"
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun
I realise that this may be considered a spam post, but why am I suddenly reminded of the scene from Chicago, right before Lucy Liu shoots her boyfriend.
Cheers
Andrew
I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!
Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
BrotherGecko wrote: I'm seriously reconsidering my opinion of Mattis as a man of principal.
In any other administration, Mattis would have been quietly shown the door over the horrid judgement and conflicts of interests he showed with Theranos - a company that the slightest due diligence showed to be a massive fraud. Could you imagine the shark frenzy if the same situation had happened a few years ago, but it was Eric Holder instead of Jim Mattis? Malfoy would have started hearings a year ago.
The reason that has not happened is that in land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king - but in this situation substitute blindness with "gross incompetence". Despite his pretty bad baggage we're all pretending not to see, he's the most stable and reliable guy I think we're likely to get.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/24 22:04:55
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Vaktathi wrote: The big thing that can be done against Russia is targeting energy exports and financial transacting. If the US manipulates oil and gas prices (in large part through negotiations with allied) to keep them low and shuts Russia as a whole (as opposed to specific individuals and concerns) out of using US financial services, one can expect Russia will be...monstrously uncomfortable. Now, thats not without risks and costs of its own, which is why they havent been done yet, but much greater economic pressure could be brought to bear.
Also, let's never underestimate the possibility of armed conflict, someone can always do something stupid or unintended.
Put LSD in their vodka. The shenanigans!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Vaktathi wrote: The big thing that can be done against Russia is targeting energy exports and financial transacting. If the US manipulates oil and gas prices (in large part through negotiations with allied) to keep them low and shuts Russia as a whole (as opposed to specific individuals and concerns) out of using US financial services, one can expect Russia will be...monstrously uncomfortable. Now, thats not without risks and costs of its own, which is why they havent been done yet, but much greater economic pressure could be brought to bear.
Also, let's never underestimate the possibility of armed conflict, someone can always do something stupid or unintended.
Put LSD in their vodka. The shenanigans!
I doubt that would have any effect. Russia is already crazy enough without LSD. People would probably just shrug off the hallucinations and go back to work (or pretending to be at work).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/24 22:08:55
feeder wrote: Isn't open carry basically a "shoot me first" sign in a potential armed BG scenario? What does open carry offer that CC doesn't?
The opportunity to use a displayed firearm as a political statement.
However, some states ban open carry and also make it very difficult or impossible to get a concealed carry permit. IMO that combination is an unlawful infringement on your constitutional rights - you can't do both. In that environment I think challenges to open carry bans should succeed.
I have a concealed carry permit personally, and think open carry is for donkey-caves, outside of some specific circumstances. If you work on a ranch or are hiking or someplace where you think you might run into a bear or a rattler or something then it just makes good sense. If you're in a chipotle with a slung AR15 then you're a huge donkey-cave even if I agree you have the right to do it. And yes, I think it makes you less safe - if it goes down, you're getting it first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/24 22:19:57
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Thanks for all the replies. I thought that getting a CC permit was basically a formality. Seems that is not the case.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
feeder wrote: Isn't open carry basically a "shoot me first" sign in a potential armed BG scenario? What does open carry offer that CC doesn't?
The opportunity to use a displayed firearm as a political statement.
This. Just imagine what your local voting place looked like last election day. People in line to vote, and then groups of people from each side, standing as close as legally allowed, carrying banners and signs for their candidate. Now, imagine one of those groups are all carrying the biggest guns they can, and very quietly just watching everyone that walks up to the voting line.
Kilkrazy wrote: Has it reached the point where someone needs to call for Trump to stop having bestial sex with farmyard animals.
Um, exactly what other kinds of sex would he (or anyone) have with farmyard animals?
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
feeder wrote: Isn't open carry basically a "shoot me first" sign in a potential armed BG scenario? What does open carry offer that CC doesn't?
The opportunity to use a displayed firearm as a political statement.
This. Just imagine what your local voting place looked like last election day. People in line to vote, and then groups of people from each side, standing as close as legally allowed, carrying banners and signs for their candidate. Now, imagine one of those groups are all carrying the biggest guns they can, and very quietly just watching everyone that walks up to the voting line.
Kilkrazy wrote: Has it reached the point where someone needs to call for Trump to stop having bestial sex with farmyard animals.
Um, exactly what other kinds of sex would he (or anyone) have with farmyard animals?
The intimidation factor being a main reason I think the oathkeepers and all of those militias are scumbags
The usual argument is that if you are scared of and intimidated by guns, then that is your problem and not the fault of the gun or gun bearing outstanding citizen.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also: the anti-welfare GOP administration is planning on a $12 billion aid package for farmers hurt by the tariffs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/24 23:17:55
*Definition of winning may not be the same for all parties.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
d-usa wrote: The usual argument is that if you are scared of and intimidated by guns, then that is your problem and not the fault of the gun or gun bearing outstanding citizen.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also: the anti-welfare GOP administration is planning on a $12 billion aid package for farmers hurt by the tariffs.
Those damn farmer welfare queens suckling at the teet of the big government
This. Just imagine what your local voting place looked like last election day. People in line to vote, and then groups of people from each side, standing as close as legally allowed, carrying banners and signs for their candidate. Now, imagine one of those groups are all carrying the biggest guns they can, and very quietly just watching everyone that walks up to the voting line.
That was last election around here.
The armed voters keep the armed drive bys down. Hell, we had another shooting this morning, about a hour before i left for work. They shot up a 7/11, in particular the one I stop at every morning to get cash out of the ATM. On the up side, they were lousy shots, and just got someone in the leg.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
d-usa wrote: The usual argument is that if you are scared of and intimidated by guns, then that is your problem and not the fault of the gun or gun bearing outstanding citizen.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also: the anti-welfare GOP administration is planning on a $12 billion aid package for farmers hurt by the tariffs.
Those damn farmer welfare queens suckling at the teet of the big government
That feeling when every American gets to pay 40$ to bail out the turkeys so they can keep voting for thanksgiving in the future, your taxes at work.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
(CNN)Presidential candidate Donald Trump is heard on tape discussing with his attorney Michael Cohen how they would buy the rights to a Playboy model's story about an alleged affair Trump had with her years earlier, according to the audio recording of the conversation aired exclusively on CNN's "Cuomo Prime Time."
The recording offers the public a glimpse at the confidential discussions between Trump and Cohen, and it confirms the man who now occupies the Oval Office had contemporaneous knowledge of a proposal to buy the rights to the story of Karen McDougal, a woman who has alleged she had an extramarital affair with Trump about a decade ago.
Cohen told Trump about his plans to set up a company and finance the purchase of the rights from American Media, which publishes the National Enquirer.
"I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David," Cohen said in the recording, likely a reference to American Media head David Pecker.
Trump interrupts Cohen asking, "What financing?" according to the recording. When Cohen tells Trump, "We'll have to pay." Trump is heard saying "pay with cash" but the audio is muddled and it's unclear whether he suggests paying with cash or not paying. Cohen says, "no, no" but it is not clear what is said next.
No payment was ever made from Trump, Rudy Giuliani, the President's attorney, has said. Giuliani has previously acknowledged that the recorded discussion related to the buying the story rights.
The recording, which was provided to CNN by Cohen's attorney Lanny Davis, was made in September 2016. "What is this about? This is about honesty versus false disparagement of Michael Cohen. Why is Giuliani out falsely disparaging Michael Cohen -- because they fear him," Davis said on "Cuomo Prime Time."
"What do they fear, Chris? Why am I representing him? They fear that he has the truth about Donald Trump. He will someday speak the truth about Donald Trump. The truth is that when Donald Trump said 'cash,' which Rudy Giuliani knows that only drug dealers and mobsters talk about cash, it was, you heard Michael Cohen ... say what? 'No, no, no, no.'"
Davis later added: "Ladies and gentlemen, if you voted for Donald Trump, listen to the tape and ask yourself: Is Donald Trump lying when he said he didn't use the word 'cash' and accuses Michael Cohen of using the word 'cash'? Cohen has been disparaged. Cohen has been insulted and called all sorts of things by people around Donald Trump." Alan Futerfas, a lawyer for the Trump Organization, refuted that the tape shows Trump was offering a cash payment. "Whoever is telling Davis that cash in that conversation refers to green currency is lying to him," Futerfas told CNN. "There's no transaction done in green currency. It doesn't happen. The whole deal never happened. If it was going to happen, it would be a payment to a large company that would obviously be accompanied by an agreement of sale. Those documents would be prepared by lawyers on both sides." Cash, in the conversation, was in reference to how a deal would be financed, Futerfas added. "The word cash came up in the context of the distinction between financing, which is referenced, and no financing, which means a full payment, a total one-time payment. That's the context in which the word cash is used," he said. "Anyone who knows anything about the company or how the President does business knows there is no green cash. Everything is documented. Every penny is documented." Court filings said federal prosecutors have obtained 12 audio recordings from the FBI raids on Cohen earlier this year. CNN previously reported that Trump's lawyers waived attorney-client privilege on the President's behalf regarding the recording involving him personally. The discussion relates to whether Trump should buy the rights of the story from American Media, which paid McDougal $150,000 in August 2016 for her story about an alleged 10 month affair with Trump. The story was never published by AMI. In addition to discussing the McDougal payment, Trump and Cohen are overheard running through a list of potential legal issues, including contesting a New York Times request to unseal divorce records from Trump's first wife Ivana as well as more mundane matters such as polling numbers and Trump surrogate Pastor Mark Burns.
Don't know if this is allowed but erm... Holy Cradolia. This leads me to believe... That our president... Is not too smart.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/25 02:52:01
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
I think you REALLY overthinking the wishes of Putin to interfere right in the middle of US politics.
First of all - despite the agenda - Russian capabilities is limited. VERY limited. You imagine hackers to be a digital wizards but that is not truth.
Of course there is a critical points in systems - but even they are used only to certan degree - you can't rig the elections by significant amount - it works only in case of ties where a few percent can change situation.(and if that situation happend with a 50/50 vote then something is wrong in the first place)
Then again - it's not a granted strategy and outcome is uncertain - which is really bad for a logical moves that Putin used to do. He is a Chess-player.
Second - There is always exist foreign interfernce in every major country - it's like an organism that filled with germs and bacteria - but untill he got working Immune systems all the harm is prevented. That is how the normal state work - you send spies in foreign countries, and you catch enemy spies at home.
But there is an established rules, that all spy-buisness problems solved by closed/secret channels between states, because otherwise it causes harm to both countries - it ruins established spy networks, and your special agencies have to start all over.
It's always better to control known spy activity that search for a new one.
And that is, I guess the most shocking part to people - there is a tons of russian spies in US - just as there is a tons of US spies in Russia. And not only in Russia - a few years back there was an awkward moment about US surveillance over German government and Merkel.
It was a big scandal for a broad audience, but in reality - it's nothing new, common activity of secret services.
But only if Germany wanted to make a political scandal of it - that would be an easiest thing to do.
Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this?
If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point.
1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis
2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis
3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
Again if you missed - Putin never expressed ambitions to be a world-ruler, or Russia to be the only world dominant power.
It's really a lesson learned for Russia in USSR time, that one country simply can't rule/control the world, even with the help of allies. Even the US with the biggest economy-millitary and political influence can't do that - what Russia could hope for?
But there is concept of great council - when few the most influential states (or group of states) deals with current problems - for now it's 3 key truly independent powers US-Russia-China.
So all the world key political problems can be solved if these 3 countries get along. If one of this powers do not agree - then problem becomes a nightmare for everyone.
And if one of these countries would like to solve a key problem despite other two- then we have all things we have right now in the world.
But the most important thing - none of this 3 power wants the elimination or sufficent weakness of other - US vs Russia - China wins, China vs US - Russia wins, China vs Russia - US wins.
And 2 powers combined always outmatch the rest. It's like the political form of Mutual Assured Destruction.
Since Cold war and simple pattern US vs USSR, this triad balance seems to be much more stable, the only thing left is for US to understand that one country can't rule the world alone, or be the only world-policeman who can decide what is the democracy and what country can be bombed.
So my point of view - US have a massive inner struggle between two major concepts - the old one when US ruled all the key parts of the world, and the new one when US would rule only a part of the world.
P.S. by "rule" i mean the role of arbitrator in their own region.
Omega-soul wrote: Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this?
If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point.
1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis
2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis
3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
No one thinks that is what Putin wants. He wants sanctions lifted, and Trump was the most likely way to make that happen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/25 04:46:40
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Omega-soul wrote: Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this?
If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point.
1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis
2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis
3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
No one thinks that is what Putin wants. He wants sanctions lifted, and Trump was the most likely way to make that happen.
Sanctions was a great leverage when they were a threat. Now after damage done, they actually help russian economy (thanks to China's money) just ask europeans.
There is a very limited effect to sanctions in a very specific areas.
And it's deffinitely not worth the risk to interfere in US politics. Even then - ok sanctions are lifted - then what? Trading tariffs/trade wars that everyone already involved in?
Not to mention that Russia always was under US sanctions - since USSR it was a Jackson–Vanik act which then transformed into Magnitsky Act, so if it wasn't Ukraine it would be a Skripal-Trump or whatever act (As if US needed a reason really)
In fact financial sanctions helped Putin to consolidate not only regular people, but even an oligarchs - it's like "Look Ivan, those western politics are liars - there is no freedom of money or fair buisness for you, so you better stay here and invest your money in Russia and nobody will touch you".
But that is a globalozation as it is - all US actions will be countered in one way or another.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/25 05:29:03
Omega-soul wrote: Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this? If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point. 1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis 2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis 3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
Also to stay relevant and remove the US from the world stage effectively so that overtime the Russians can try to get back into place and make more money. The Federation is not particularly going for war against the US but they are stiring the pot, they have hacked us, we know this, there is no refuting the damage that has been done to the united states because of russian meddling in the previous election, we have indictments based on that entirely.
We have a russian operative who was paid to work with the NRA to help the interests of the Federation.
It is not some fairy tale, the Russians do not like the united states. Especially under obama, they want a weak president so they can take advantage of things.
Calling their hackers 'bad' is understating the threat that the pose to the national security of this country and the united states. Denying that is well faulty.
So my point of view - US have a massive inner struggle between two major concepts - the old one when US ruled all the key parts of the world, and the new one when US would rule only a part of the world.
That has and never has been the goal of the united states. Nor has it wanted that. Its goal is a globazied economy, globadized interests, and centralized power. Not ruling, The United States does not rule africa, or europe. They have bases in some of these places, but that is not because the United States is ruling the world like Rome did. They are bases for force projection not for the planetary rule. That is incredibly well, short sighted if we went down that path. it instead influences and has diplomacies. Because honestly the US could get its ass kicked if it decided to go super villian by sanctions and crippling its economy with isolationist policies.
Since Cold war and simple pattern US vs USSR, this triad balance seems to be much more stable, the only thing left is for US to understand that one country can't rule the world alone, or be the only world-policeman who can decide what is the democracy and what country can be bombed.
Since the end of the cold war, the US has been the Hegemonic Power, there has been no power to equal the united states in decades. China is the only even close but they are always lagging behind. The united states has always been at the cutting edge because of its people.
The rest of your post is simplifying alot of world history. Putin has and does seek power, and he is making power plays right now. If this current president hasn't taught us anything is that the United States is no longer secure against threats against its democracy and how a single man has way too much power in government and that more checks and balances must be added to maintain our democracy.
Russian capabilities is limited. VERY limited. You imagine hackers to be a digital wizards but that is not truth.
No. They aren't. They are extremely capable and have always been so, these are the soviets were talking about, we are talking about born and raised people who are hackers, they use different methods than most hackers, they pose as people in a crowd, they used social media to create discord. It was extremely intelligent what they did with private corporations like Cambridge Anaylitica. This was the first time in modern history where a known power used propaganda at this scale that was so obtainable that people could see it at their homes and be tricked by it.
Another part of our lives has now be corrupted into a weapon which is a scary thought.
This isn't scare mongering but that is the world we live in, a very complicated one, where simplifying it does no one any favors, its why we are in this mess to begin with. We simplified what a president should be. We should ask the hard questions when it comes to becoming president, and people should vote with concious not because you like the guy, and you can relate to him, but : Is he or she good for the collective instead of the self?
Omega-soul wrote: Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this? If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point. 1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis 2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis 3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
No one thinks that is what Putin wants. He wants sanctions lifted, and Trump was the most likely way to make that happen.
Sanctions was a great leverage when they were a threat. Now after damage done, they actually help russian economy (thanks to China's money) just ask europeans. There is a very limited effect to sanctions in a very specific areas. And it's deffinitely not worth the risk to interfere in US politics. Even then - ok sanctions are lifted - then what? Trading tariffs/trade wars that everyone already involved in?
Not to mention that Russia always was under US sanctions - since USSR it was a Jackson–Vanik act which then transformed into Magnitsky Act, so if it wasn't Ukraine it would be a Skripal-Trump or whatever act (As if US needed a reason really) In fact financial sanctions helped Putin to consolidate not only regular people, but even an oligarchs - it's like "Look Ivan, those western politics are liars - there is no freedom of money or fair buisness for you, so you better stay here and invest your money in Russia and nobody will touch you".
But that is a globalozation as it is - all US actions will be countered in one way or another.
Which basically and single handledly devastated the russian federation's economy.
"The Magnitsky Act, formally known as the Russia and Moldova Jackson–Vanik Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012, is a bipartisan bill passed by the U.S. Congress and signed by President Obama in December 2012, intending to punish Russian officials responsible for the death of Russian tax accountant Sergei Magnitsky in a Moscow prison in 2009.
Since 2016 the bill, which applies globally, "authorizes governments to sanction human rights offenders in Russia, freeze their foreign assets, and ban them from entering the signing country."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/25 05:43:45
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Omega-soul wrote: I think you REALLY overthinking the wishes of Putin to interfere right in the middle of US politics.
First of all - despite the agenda - Russian capabilities is limited. VERY limited. You imagine hackers to be a digital wizards but that is not truth.
Of course there is a critical points in systems - but even they are used only to certan degree - you can't rig the elections by significant amount - it works only in case of ties where a few percent can change situation.(and if that situation happend with a 50/50 vote then something is wrong in the first place)
Then again - it's not a granted strategy and outcome is uncertain - which is really bad for a logical moves that Putin used to do. He is a Chess-player.
Second - There is always exist foreign interfernce in every major country - it's like an organism that filled with germs and bacteria - but untill he got working Immune systems all the harm is prevented. That is how the normal state work - you send spies in foreign countries, and you catch enemy spies at home.
But there is an established rules, that all spy-buisness problems solved by closed/secret channels between states, because otherwise it causes harm to both countries - it ruins established spy networks, and your special agencies have to start all over.
It's always better to control known spy activity that search for a new one.
And that is, I guess the most shocking part to people - there is a tons of russian spies in US - just as there is a tons of US spies in Russia. And not only in Russia - a few years back there was an awkward moment about US surveillance over German government and Merkel.
It was a big scandal for a broad audience, but in reality - it's nothing new, common activity of secret services.
But only if Germany wanted to make a political scandal of it - that would be an easiest thing to do.
Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this?
If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point.
1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis
2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis
3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
Again if you missed - Putin never expressed ambitions to be a world-ruler, or Russia to be the only world dominant power.
It's really a lesson learned for Russia in USSR time, that one country simply can't rule/control the world, even with the help of allies. Even the US with the biggest economy-millitary and political influence can't do that - what Russia could hope for?
But there is concept of great council - when few the most influential states (or group of states) deals with current problems - for now it's 3 key truly independent powers US-Russia-China.
So all the world key political problems can be solved if these 3 countries get along. If one of this powers do not agree - then problem becomes a nightmare for everyone.
And if one of these countries would like to solve a key problem despite other two- then we have all things we have right now in the world.
But the most important thing - none of this 3 power wants the elimination or sufficent weakness of other - US vs Russia - China wins, China vs US - Russia wins, China vs Russia - US wins.
And 2 powers combined always outmatch the rest. It's like the political form of Mutual Assured Destruction.
Since Cold war and simple pattern US vs USSR, this triad balance seems to be much more stable, the only thing left is for US to understand that one country can't rule the world alone, or be the only world-policeman who can decide what is the democracy and what country can be bombed.
So my point of view - US have a massive inner struggle between two major concepts - the old one when US ruled all the key parts of the world, and the new one when US would rule only a part of the world.
P.S. by "rule" i mean the role of arbitrator in their own region.
The idea of Russia as a great world power is laughable. It is a gangster state with an ambitious murderer for a leader, with an economy smaller than that of Italy. Russia is a global trouble maker, a rogue state with a population fed a lot of propaganda. It is on the security council because it used to be important, but that is long gone. Putin is chasing past glories.
The idea that Russia gets to control Europe, China the rest of Asia and USA the rest of the Americas is a fantasy. It is how Putin would like things to work, because then the gangsters around him could enrich themselves even further. You, the people of Russia, need to get your heads out of your asses and realise thsi crap that Putin pulls degrades Russia in the eyes of the rest of the world. I will tell you plainly- I was never hostile to Russia until recently. Even with the invasion of Ukraine, to my shame, I did not really pay enough attention. But since you started messing in our democracies, since you started messing in the US's democracy to the detriment of the entire world, I started getting angry. Now if I see a post with a similar syntax to yours online, I think "Oh, this person is probably a liar". Because paid trolls have infested the comments on every newspaper on articles about Russia. I have internalised that Russians are mostly happy to lie and mislead, and that they are not to be trusted. That will be the legacy of Putin.
Not to sound paranoid but I take majority of posts now ever since the election with a giant grain of salt after the cambridge analytica scandal where people (russian agents) posed as posters and manipulated people. Its hard not to feel a bit xenophobic of Russia after all the stuff their government pulled in 2016 and ever since.
Though I don't know if that makes me a horrible person or just informed. Its crazy to think that this sight could've been used as well for manipulation, as all the big named websites were used in these disinformation campaigns. Which is probably why the mods have limited US politics to a single thread. Thank god.
Cause US politics right now is a complete and utter mess. One party has gone coco for coca puffs and runs the entire government, and the other has 0 power to do anything meaningful. Other than look menacing while the other does nothing about the myraid of issues caused by our white house :/
But man has this taught me how important my votes are. (AKA I didn't vote, because I didn't know where to vote, now I do and I am going to vote from now until I die.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/25 06:34:21
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
I think a few posters here might wanna take a few deep breaths and calm down, not every Russian out there is a Putin spy that is trying to steal your democracy
Omega-soul wrote: I think you REALLY overthinking the wishes of Putin to interfere right in the middle of US politics.
First of all - despite the agenda - Russian capabilities is limited. VERY limited. You imagine hackers to be a digital wizards but that is not truth.
Of course there is a critical points in systems - but even they are used only to certan degree - you can't rig the elections by significant amount - it works only in case of ties where a few percent can change situation.(and if that situation happend with a 50/50 vote then something is wrong in the first place)
Then again - it's not a granted strategy and outcome is uncertain - which is really bad for a logical moves that Putin used to do. He is a Chess-player.
Second - There is always exist foreign interfernce in every major country - it's like an organism that filled with germs and bacteria - but untill he got working Immune systems all the harm is prevented. That is how the normal state work - you send spies in foreign countries, and you catch enemy spies at home.
But there is an established rules, that all spy-buisness problems solved by closed/secret channels between states, because otherwise it causes harm to both countries - it ruins established spy networks, and your special agencies have to start all over.
It's always better to control known spy activity that search for a new one.
And that is, I guess the most shocking part to people - there is a tons of russian spies in US - just as there is a tons of US spies in Russia. And not only in Russia - a few years back there was an awkward moment about US surveillance over German government and Merkel.
It was a big scandal for a broad audience, but in reality - it's nothing new, common activity of secret services.
But only if Germany wanted to make a political scandal of it - that would be an easiest thing to do.
Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this?
If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point.
1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis
2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis
3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
Again if you missed - Putin never expressed ambitions to be a world-ruler, or Russia to be the only world dominant power.
It's really a lesson learned for Russia in USSR time, that one country simply can't rule/control the world, even with the help of allies. Even the US with the biggest economy-millitary and political influence can't do that - what Russia could hope for?
But there is concept of great council - when few the most influential states (or group of states) deals with current problems - for now it's 3 key truly independent powers US-Russia-China.
So all the world key political problems can be solved if these 3 countries get along. If one of this powers do not agree - then problem becomes a nightmare for everyone.
And if one of these countries would like to solve a key problem despite other two- then we have all things we have right now in the world.
But the most important thing - none of this 3 power wants the elimination or sufficent weakness of other - US vs Russia - China wins, China vs US - Russia wins, China vs Russia - US wins.
And 2 powers combined always outmatch the rest. It's like the political form of Mutual Assured Destruction.
Since Cold war and simple pattern US vs USSR, this triad balance seems to be much more stable, the only thing left is for US to understand that one country can't rule the world alone, or be the only world-policeman who can decide what is the democracy and what country can be bombed.
So my point of view - US have a massive inner struggle between two major concepts - the old one when US ruled all the key parts of the world, and the new one when US would rule only a part of the world.
P.S. by "rule" i mean the role of arbitrator in their own region.
The idea of Russia as a great world power is laughable. It is a gangster state with an ambitious murderer for a leader, with an economy smaller than that of Italy. Russia is a global trouble maker, a rogue state with a population fed a lot of propaganda. It is on the security council because it used to be important, but that is long gone. Putin is chasing past glories.
The idea that Russia gets to control Europe, China the rest of Asia and USA the rest of the Americas is a fantasy. It is how Putin would like things to work, because then the gangsters around him could enrich themselves even further. You, the people of Russia, need to get your heads out of your asses and realise thsi crap that Putin pulls degrades Russia in the eyes of the rest of the world. I will tell you plainly- I was never hostile to Russia until recently. Even with the invasion of Ukraine, to my shame, I did not really pay enough attention. But since you started messing in our democracies, since you started messing in the US's democracy to the detriment of the entire world, I started getting angry. Now if I see a post with a similar syntax to yours online, I think "Oh, this person is probably a liar". Because paid trolls have infested the comments on every newspaper on articles about Russia. I have internalised that Russians are mostly happy to lie and mislead, and that they are not to be trusted. That will be the legacy of Putin.
Replace Russia with the US, Putin with Trump, and the Russian people with Republican voters and you can describe a different but unfortunately similar situation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/25 08:10:10
The idea of Russia as a great world power is laughable. It is a gangster state with an ambitious murderer for a leader, with an economy smaller than that of Italy. Russia is a global trouble maker, a rogue state with a population fed a lot of propaganda. It is on the security council because it used to be important, but that is long gone. Putin is chasing past glories.
The idea that Russia gets to control Europe, China the rest of Asia and USA the rest of the Americas is a fantasy. It is how Putin would like things to work, because then the gangsters around him could enrich themselves even further. You, the people of Russia, need to get your heads out of your asses and realise thsi crap that Putin pulls degrades Russia in the eyes of the rest of the world. I will tell you plainly- I was never hostile to Russia until recently. Even with the invasion of Ukraine, to my shame, I did not really pay enough attention. But since you started messing in our democracies, since you started messing in the US's democracy to the detriment of the entire world, I started getting angry. Now if I see a post with a similar syntax to yours online, I think "Oh, this person is probably a liar". Because paid trolls have infested the comments on every newspaper on articles about Russia. I have internalised that Russians are mostly happy to lie and mislead, and that they are not to be trusted. That will be the legacy of Putin.
Well that is your opinion, which i have no intention to argue with - you may well think that. But the thing you should learn is that world is full of opinions that is different to yours, and if it does - it's not always because somebody paid to someone.
That is your problem - you think that alternative opinion is wrong and somehow modified - paid or brainwashed. Just as you think about Trump supporters. So what that makes of them - they are happy to be lied and mislead? Is that thing applied only to a particular nations?
And if I'am being half-german (and I am) does that make syntax similar to mine - half truth?
I could write some similar propagandistic BS to yours, but I know that you don't need another speech of How Bad America Really Is, I just wonder - why you think I need something similar from you - what points your post makes apart from insults based on nationality?
The idea that Russia gets to control Europe, China the rest of Asia and USA the rest of the Americas is a fantasy
I said none of that. That is your own words you trying to put as typical-paid-russian-troll syntaxis.
The idea of Russia as a great world power is laughable.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you." Nicholas Klein.
There is an author - Francis Fukuyama, he wrote The End of History which epitomises your belief that history ended after 1991 because liberal democracy endpoint of humanity's sociocultural evolution, and US being the most prominent example of it and essentially nothing will changes from then on.
But it lasted only a quarter of a century to crumble apart.
And what a circumstances - some lowly rouge state with an economy smaller than that of Italy can broke the citadel of Democracy? How is that possible? Even USSR couldn't achieve that.
So either idea of Russia being the great world global power is not so laughable, or the source of problems comes from inside of US.
That is lesson to learn - things can (and will) change.
For example - China in 1990 was 11th economy of the world, behind countries like Iran - 20 years later it's the second largest economy, and a few years later it will be the biggest economy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/25 08:24:53
BaronIveagh wrote: Well, today I started laughing at the point where Trump demanded that people not believe what they see with their own eyes, but they should instead believe him.
.. clearly if the President says it didn't happen then it's not illegal.
or something.
meanwhile :
..imagine the horror of a world in which people's children were both educated and healthy !
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Yes, the realities of social democracy in Europe are truly horrifying. Its pretty ironic that a Trump supporter like the Daily Caller calls that terrifying and populist while happily marching behind the guy proclaiming that they can go back into the 1950's. But going back to the 1950's at least doesn't make you a filthy death panel supporting commie!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/25 09:21:19
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Omega-soul wrote: I think you REALLY overthinking the wishes of Putin to interfere right in the middle of US politics.
First of all - despite the agenda - Russian capabilities is limited. VERY limited. You imagine hackers to be a digital wizards but that is not truth.
Of course there is a critical points in systems - but even they are used only to certan degree - you can't rig the elections by significant amount - it works only in case of ties where a few percent can change situation.(and if that situation happend with a 50/50 vote then something is wrong in the first place)
Then again - it's not a granted strategy and outcome is uncertain - which is really bad for a logical moves that Putin used to do. He is a Chess-player.
Second - There is always exist foreign interfernce in every major country - it's like an organism that filled with germs and bacteria - but untill he got working Immune systems all the harm is prevented. That is how the normal state work - you send spies in foreign countries, and you catch enemy spies at home.
But there is an established rules, that all spy-buisness problems solved by closed/secret channels between states, because otherwise it causes harm to both countries - it ruins established spy networks, and your special agencies have to start all over.
It's always better to control known spy activity that search for a new one.
And that is, I guess the most shocking part to people - there is a tons of russian spies in US - just as there is a tons of US spies in Russia. And not only in Russia - a few years back there was an awkward moment about US surveillance over German government and Merkel.
It was a big scandal for a broad audience, but in reality - it's nothing new, common activity of secret services.
But only if Germany wanted to make a political scandal of it - that would be an easiest thing to do.
Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this?
If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point.
1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis
2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis
3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
Again if you missed - Putin never expressed ambitions to be a world-ruler, or Russia to be the only world dominant power.
It's really a lesson learned for Russia in USSR time, that one country simply can't rule/control the world, even with the help of allies. Even the US with the biggest economy-millitary and political influence can't do that - what Russia could hope for?
But there is concept of great council - when few the most influential states (or group of states) deals with current problems - for now it's 3 key truly independent powers US-Russia-China.
So all the world key political problems can be solved if these 3 countries get along. If one of this powers do not agree - then problem becomes a nightmare for everyone.
And if one of these countries would like to solve a key problem despite other two- then we have all things we have right now in the world.
But the most important thing - none of this 3 power wants the elimination or sufficent weakness of other - US vs Russia - China wins, China vs US - Russia wins, China vs Russia - US wins.
And 2 powers combined always outmatch the rest. It's like the political form of Mutual Assured Destruction.
Since Cold war and simple pattern US vs USSR, this triad balance seems to be much more stable, the only thing left is for US to understand that one country can't rule the world alone, or be the only world-policeman who can decide what is the democracy and what country can be bombed.
So my point of view - US have a massive inner struggle between two major concepts - the old one when US ruled all the key parts of the world, and the new one when US would rule only a part of the world.
P.S. by "rule" i mean the role of arbitrator in their own region.
The idea of Russia as a great world power is laughable. It is a gangster state with an ambitious murderer for a leader, with an economy smaller than that of Italy. Russia is a global trouble maker, a rogue state with a population fed a lot of propaganda. It is on the security council because it used to be important, but that is long gone. Putin is chasing past glories.
The idea that Russia gets to control Europe, China the rest of Asia and USA the rest of the Americas is a fantasy. It is how Putin would like things to work, because then the gangsters around him could enrich themselves even further. You, the people of Russia, need to get your heads out of your asses and realise thsi crap that Putin pulls degrades Russia in the eyes of the rest of the world. I will tell you plainly- I was never hostile to Russia until recently. Even with the invasion of Ukraine, to my shame, I did not really pay enough attention. But since you started messing in our democracies, since you started messing in the US's democracy to the detriment of the entire world, I started getting angry. Now if I see a post with a similar syntax to yours online, I think "Oh, this person is probably a liar". Because paid trolls have infested the comments on every newspaper on articles about Russia. I have internalised that Russians are mostly happy to lie and mislead, and that they are not to be trusted. That will be the legacy of Putin.
Replace Russia with the US, Putin with Trump, and the Russian people with Republican voters and you can describe a different but unfortunately similar situation.
Yeah. I'm more worriea about us. Us has proven track record of invading and toppling countries with made up reasons. They have done that several times. Who is next target?
Yeah. I'm more worriea about us. Us has proven track record of invading and toppling countries with made up reasons. They have done that several times. Who is next target?
I don't know, Russia's recent entry into that sector was pretty impressive. That said, based on Trump's ramblings either Venezuela or Iran. Since he prefers to kick over the more or less defenseless, I'm guessing the former.
That said, seeing lots of errant assumptions in this thread about Putin's motivations, talking about what's good for Russia. No, it's what's good for Putin that matters. Sanctions preventing him and his friends from getting their stolen money out of Russia are bad for Putin, so he supports the guy who does everything in his power to keep that from happening. As to the whole 'breaking America' thing, it's far less they want America to fall and far more that they want it to stand as a rotting kleptocratic corpse run and looted by oligarchs, and they have plenty of help from the inside on our right wing. Look at the Koch brothers and Kansas, they want that, everywhere, and Trump is a convenient step in that direction. Keeping him, and the utterly morally bankrupt GOP in power would push us right along that road.
And on that note, folks who were pro separating children from those detained on immigration violations, how do you feel about 450+ parents deported without their kids?
Omega-soul wrote: I think you REALLY overthinking the wishes of Putin to interfere right in the middle of US politics.
First of all - despite the agenda - Russian capabilities is limited. VERY limited. You imagine hackers to be a digital wizards but that is not truth.
Of course there is a critical points in systems - but even they are used only to certan degree - you can't rig the elections by significant amount - it works only in case of ties where a few percent can change situation.(and if that situation happend with a 50/50 vote then something is wrong in the first place)
Then again - it's not a granted strategy and outcome is uncertain - which is really bad for a logical moves that Putin used to do. He is a Chess-player.
Second - There is always exist foreign interfernce in every major country - it's like an organism that filled with germs and bacteria - but untill he got working Immune systems all the harm is prevented. That is how the normal state work - you send spies in foreign countries, and you catch enemy spies at home.
But there is an established rules, that all spy-buisness problems solved by closed/secret channels between states, because otherwise it causes harm to both countries - it ruins established spy networks, and your special agencies have to start all over.
It's always better to control known spy activity that search for a new one.
And that is, I guess the most shocking part to people - there is a tons of russian spies in US - just as there is a tons of US spies in Russia. And not only in Russia - a few years back there was an awkward moment about US surveillance over German government and Merkel.
It was a big scandal for a broad audience, but in reality - it's nothing new, common activity of secret services.
But only if Germany wanted to make a political scandal of it - that would be an easiest thing to do.
Third - What is the ultimate goal of all this?
If you think that causing USA into chaos is a good plan for Russia or Putin - you're really missing the point.
1) The Fall of US means world-scale econimic crisis
2) The Fall of US means world-scale political crisis
3) Tha Fall of US means world-scale military crisis
Again if you missed - Putin never expressed ambitions to be a world-ruler, or Russia to be the only world dominant power.
It's really a lesson learned for Russia in USSR time, that one country simply can't rule/control the world, even with the help of allies. Even the US with the biggest economy-millitary and political influence can't do that - what Russia could hope for?
But there is concept of great council - when few the most influential states (or group of states) deals with current problems - for now it's 3 key truly independent powers US-Russia-China.
So all the world key political problems can be solved if these 3 countries get along. If one of this powers do not agree - then problem becomes a nightmare for everyone.
And if one of these countries would like to solve a key problem despite other two- then we have all things we have right now in the world.
But the most important thing - none of this 3 power wants the elimination or sufficent weakness of other - US vs Russia - China wins, China vs US - Russia wins, China vs Russia - US wins.
And 2 powers combined always outmatch the rest. It's like the political form of Mutual Assured Destruction.
Since Cold war and simple pattern US vs USSR, this triad balance seems to be much more stable, the only thing left is for US to understand that one country can't rule the world alone, or be the only world-policeman who can decide what is the democracy and what country can be bombed.
So my point of view - US have a massive inner struggle between two major concepts - the old one when US ruled all the key parts of the world, and the new one when US would rule only a part of the world.
P.S. by "rule" i mean the role of arbitrator in their own region.
The idea of Russia as a great world power is laughable. It is a gangster state with an ambitious murderer for a leader, with an economy smaller than that of Italy. Russia is a global trouble maker, a rogue state with a population fed a lot of propaganda. It is on the security council because it used to be important, but that is long gone. Putin is chasing past glories.
The idea that Russia gets to control Europe, China the rest of Asia and USA the rest of the Americas is a fantasy. It is how Putin would like things to work, because then the gangsters around him could enrich themselves even further. You, the people of Russia, need to get your heads out of your asses and realise thsi crap that Putin pulls degrades Russia in the eyes of the rest of the world. I will tell you plainly- I was never hostile to Russia until recently. Even with the invasion of Ukraine, to my shame, I did not really pay enough attention. But since you started messing in our democracies, since you started messing in the US's democracy to the detriment of the entire world, I started getting angry. Now if I see a post with a similar syntax to yours online, I think "Oh, this person is probably a liar". Because paid trolls have infested the comments on every newspaper on articles about Russia. I have internalised that Russians are mostly happy to lie and mislead, and that they are not to be trusted. That will be the legacy of Putin.
Replace Russia with the US, Putin with Trump, and the Russian people with Republican voters and you can describe a different but unfortunately similar situation.
Yeah. I'm more worriea about us. Us has proven track record of invading and toppling countries with made up reasons. They have done that several times. Who is next target?
Thats what powerful nations and those who want to be powerful do. We used to do when we could, can;t now.
The same way that intelligence services from all powers interfere with each others elections etc if they can. We do it, they do it.
Trump hasn't actually invaded anyone yet? Unlike many former Presidents with the UK and other allies assistance. Also unlike Putin and the Chinese Premier - he is supposed to have a limited term.
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