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Something that does slightly worry me (just a bit, not too much so don't yell at me and call me a babay like peoppe do every time I bring something up to discuss) is the article says this:

Orks – and Orks players – tend to take a different approach, preferring instead to blitz through the enemy in a mass of dakka, choppas and muscle, spreading anarchy and leaving enemy kill teams in the dust.

Now this is factually wrong bothnin a lore sense and real life sense. Firstly, if we just blitz we always lose in real life due to the balance. Most ork players now actually have to use tactics and be sneaky as it's the only way we can win most games. In fact, as a none standard Ork player who plays Blood Axes, Evil Sunz and Freebooters it's very fluffy for me to use tactics. So I really hope the entire codex isn't focused on just smashing the enemy with boyz again... would be nice to have tactics for the rest of the orks players who don't play goffs.

As for a lore sense, here is an excerpt for 1d4chan:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Or just add those base edge extenders various companies made when people first started panicing when Marine base sizes when up

I had no idea those were a product. You'll be a lifesaver if we go to bigger bases.

Alternately, base any new Boyz you purchase on the bases supplied with them, leaving old Boyz on the bases they were supplied with.

Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.

Most of my Marines remain on 25mm bases and I've never encountered any problems.

alphaecho wrote:
Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.

AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.

 lolman1c wrote:
Something that does slightly worry me (just a bit, not too much so don't yell at me and call me a babay like peoppe do every time I bring something up to discuss) is the article says this:

Orks – and Orks players – tend to take a different approach, preferring instead to blitz through the enemy in a mass of dakka, choppas and muscle, spreading anarchy and leaving enemy kill teams in the dust.

Now this is factually wrong bothnin a lore sense and real life sense. Firstly, if we just blitz we always lose in real life due to the balance. Most ork players now actually have to use tactics and be sneaky as it's the only way we can win most games. In fact, as a none standard Ork player who plays Blood Axes, Evil Sunz and Freebooters it's very fluffy for me to use tactics. So I really hope the entire codex isn't focused on just smashing the enemy with boyz again... would be nice to have tactics for the rest of the orks players who don't play goffs.

As for a lore sense, here is an excerpt for 1d4chan:

Spoiler:

Want to know how cunnin' they can really be? One time, WAAAGH! Grog, a small ork WAAAGH!, was having trouble out-dakkaing a Tau battleship guarding a Tau planet, the Korst'la (the Orks literally called it "The Big Dakkaship"). While Grog was off trying to get some more dakka, and hopefully this time maybe smash the thing, some Ork Kommandos figured out it would be easier just to smash the only spaceport the Korst'la could dock at. They took a captured Tau transport ship, and literally bullshitted their way into the docks ("Help us, mighty Ethereals, help. Ork pirates everywhere dak-I mean, pummeled our fleet really bad. Please, we need repairs fast.") AND IT WORKED. You can imagine the epic slaughterfest that ensued once the ship's hatches opened. Station went boom, The Big Dakkaship soon became The Big EmptyFueltankShip, and WAAAGH! Grog proceeded to assrape the entire sector. If this sounds familiar then congratulations, you know your history.

Funny you say this Lolman because the exact same snippet from GW stood out to me also.

We have HAD to be some of the most tactically sound players if we'd want any chance of winning games in previous editions. This is absolutely wrong.

It also concerns me that GW is going to take the approach of "Orks are basic, so their army will be basic to play".

I know! Orks are the most complicated faction lore wise! It's why the Imperium fail so often against them, they do not understand them! Maybe this is why GW failed at them vor so many year... just like the imperium they under estimate orks and believe them to just be brutes who have no tactics.

If you go in depth on that snippet of lore I posted above you will find tha Tau are actually the on of the only races to give Orks the credit. They too believed Orks were just stupid animals who keep hitting their heads against walls until it breaks so when the kommandos actually stole the ship and tried to dock there was one dude who was like "this is stupidly suspicious" but then went "but we're fighting orks... those idiots don't even know how to speak!" Then boom! All dead! So after that they realised how smart orks are and how tricky and adaptive they can be. They're designed for war! The Old Ones, or Kork or Snottlings (depending on your lore) didn't just make a weapon that throws it's head against the wall until it won. That would never work against gods. They designed a hyper intelligent adaptive weapon that's main programed focus is problem solving to win a war or battle. Sometimes throwing millions againsta wall does win, this is an easy tactic that even the humans do in 40k and real life. But sometimes you need a ramb to hit a weakspot, sometimes you need to go behind the scenes, sometimes you need to out speed the enemy and sometimes you need to out smart them. Orks have eben slowly getting dumber and dumber in recent lore so i really hope this takes a turn around and they become the secret hidden weapons of war they always were.

Even their language is a misunderstanding. Orks speak like idiots but that's because they're native language isn't Gothic. Orks do have their own language they speak to each other and their own glyph writing system. Calling them simple because of this woukd be like calling the people who designed the pyramids as simple because their language is in Glyphs and they can't speak English. In fact, the older an Ork gets the more fluent his Gothic becomes as he practised it more and spoke it more just like any normal person learning a new language. The fact most Orks speak any type of Gothic shows how smart they can be.


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beast_gts wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.

AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.

in addition, most tournaments and youtube channels make the correct base sizes a requirement now. And this always trickles down into standard games.

Well, the basic orc is simple and basically an idiot with a gun. Point him to the front and maybe he will hit someone, if your lucky it's even the enemy! Boys are blunt tools, even more blunt then their choppas. BUT as with everything, give an orc some time and a bit of wiggling space and he will grow into the challenge. Fighters get bigger, docs find out that hitting someone with an hammer is not necessarily the best treatment, especially if they have already a concussion, and meks get craftier, but don't expect beautiful designs, stuff has to be functional and boys will break it no matter how good it looks. Hell, orcs like ghazghkull demonstrated how clever individuals can get, while the green tide remains pretty basic and just is tailored to hit stuff with stuff till the hit stuff or the hitting stuff breaks

I have always loved Orks. I've never done them as an army as they are too horde-ish for me (I would not be able to handle painting up that many figures), but the fluff, the feel of them is amazing.

If they bring out ways to have viable small model armies, or be able to mix up different units, then I might have to go green.

Bloodmaster wrote:
Well, the basic orc is simple and basically an idiot with a gun. Point him to the front and maybe he will hit someone, if your lucky it's even the enemy! Boys are blunt tools, even more blunt then their choppas. BUT as with everything, give an orc some time and a bit of wiggling space and he will grow into the challenge. Fighters get bigger, docs find out that hitting someone with an hammer is not necessarily the best treatment, especially if they have already a concussion, and meks get craftier, but don't expect beautiful designs, stuff has to be functional and boys will break it no matter how good it looks. Hell, orcs like ghazghkull demonstrated how clever individuals can get, while the green tide remains pretty basic and just is tailored to hit stuff with stuff till the hit stuff or the hitting stuff breaks

you have to remember, the vast majority of Orks were literally born yesterday! They're basically children with the basic training already built in with a lot of the boyz fighting their first ever battle. Of course they'll have no experience so just do what even a human might do and charge and get killed or aim poorly or hit the wrong guy. This happens with humans who are new to fighting and they had years to prepare. However, once an Ork survives those first few battles and years it's all up hill from there! They become smart, able to control and organise the other boyz like a teacher in a school and they're able to learn from their experience to go beyond their basic training. Now, seen as most of the tactics come from the commander (warboss, warlord, etc...) just like a human army, all the boyz don't ned to be smart they just need to follow orders.

Same with the Oddboyz with meks and pain boyz. The basic training is already there. They know how to build a trukk, shoota, bring an ork back to life but it's their creativity and experience that improves that. They get inspired by other races and they inspire each other. An ork doesn't come straight out of the mushroom patch knowing how to make the perfect bike. He learns over time what works and doesn't work and soon his kustom ride out speeds the rest of his comrades as he flings himself upwards to smash through the window of an imperial titan (a true lore story btw). Or they experiment and adapt. The painboy might stick an orks arm back on but then realise that ork just keeps comming back with another limb chopped off so he sits dow down, does a little thinking and bobs yah uncle robot arm of deff Now the only boyz that are comming back are the ones who tried to stand up to robot deff smasha! Hell, when Mad Dok put a bunch of bombs in his customers brains to make sure they don't hurt him I'm sure that wasn't in his programming. Or when the mek ork who smashed a moon into a planet I'm sure he was not born with that idea. Orks are just as complicated and as individuals as humans are... They just need a little time to grow into it.


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ritualnet wrote:
I have always loved Orks. I've never done them as an army as they are too horde-ish for me (I would not be able to handle painting up that many figures), but the fluff, the feel of them is amazing.

If they bring out ways to have viable small model armies, or be able to mix up different units, then I might have to go green.

For many years we had the ability to go none horde. We used to have 10 men squds with 4 up saves in a trukk, or a mek army of killa kans, deff dread, nauts and stompas (no more than 20 models). Hell, even a mad max mob of wagons, bikes and trukks (again, max 30 models) but due to recent codex we lost all that. Even 7th edition made them viable because everything else kinda sucked. Now, we pick the same army and we're insta out gunned... for some reason orks have to pay a premium for their shooting and to me this just felt like GW telling us to go CC or get lost. I saw games where the freaking marines had more models and men and dakka than a bad moonz mek army! How have we even got to this stage!?

I with you. Just wanted to point out, that orcs don't learn over time. A boy might get older than a human, but if he is pressed into his boy status by other orcs he won't evolve. It's not age but possibilities that get orcs evolving.

Bloodmaster wrote:
I with you. Just wanted to point out, that orcs don't learn over time. A boy might get older than a human, but if he is pressed into his boy status by other orcs he won't evolve. It's not age but possibilities that get orcs evolving.

Boyz do totally learn with age. A Skarboy is just an Ork Boy with lots of experience. He isn't a Nobz because the Nobz is still tougher but a Skarboyz team will out do a Boyz team anyday but hold the same rank due to both being the standard troops. Like a Private and a Private first class. Age is a key factor because 1. The older an Ork the more fights he has had so he is obviously larger and grown smarter. 2. He is smarter because he has learned more. There are mahy examples in the lore of older orks who are smarter than other orks because of their age. Nobz who correct other nobz, etc...

Hell, a kommando is basically still a boyz.. or boyz can swap classes if they want. Many Orks try out being a Storm Boyz for a bit where they learn military like training and gain a lot more experience but some go back to being a Boyz when they feel they don't like it anymore with age. Sort of like being a rebellious teen who grows up and gets a real job. They still have that training and experience that comes with growing up and trying out new things.

Also just want to correct you (this isn't anything negative against you just want to make sure your auto correct isn't on or anything) but they're not Orcs. Orcs are things that evolved from Elves or something in the LoTR fantasy universe. Orks (with a k ) are the 40k Alien race (basically starting out orginal as scifi orcs back in the 80s but evolving into a totally different thing that has become something unique but similar. This is why I'm worried for 40k... the new generation might just see them as scifi orcs when they're a lot different now due to year of extra lore changing their paths).

What I want to see is
1. Build your own warboss w / Use points to purchase special rules for him.
2. Better looted wagons.
3. Cheaper Meganobs
4. The old 5th edition Waaagh rules back.
5. Snikrot can bring special characters
6. Wound Allocation abuse like in 5th edition for Nob units
7. Boyz needs more weapons or something added ot them to make em feel fresh.
8. Stronger Kans and Deff Dread...especially kans. It seems like a single hit from a stray bolt pistol or las pistol can annihilate an entire army of these ultra slow, fragile and under powered wastes of points.
9. More Gretchen options
10. New Units.

As others already wrote,
"new" ork codexes have been a let down for some editions now,
so I am not hlding my breath for this one either.

But... I still love my green little guys and would be happy rulewise if:

Kommandos get their tankbusta bombs back.
Blood axes get their (granted, looted) rhino back.

Hopefully there's a new Weirdboy model, and some new Boss Meks and Mekboyz. Also, the Painboy model needs some variants or just plain replacing.

beast_gts wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.

AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.

Thank you. I don't play AoS so wouldn't have read that.

The passage still makes it clear that it is suggested not mandatory.

I assume it will be less of an issue as time goes by as new models replace old but the point still stands. If a player wants to rebase older models, more power to the modelling elbow but the average collector/ modeller cannot be compelled to immediately rebase 250+ Boyz. I know I'm not.

mortar_crew wrote:
As others already wrote,
"new" ork codexes have been a let down for some editions now,
so I am not hlding my breath for this one either.

But... I still love my green little guys and would be happy rulewise if:

Kommandos get their tankbusta bombs back.
Blood axes get their (granted, looted) rhino back.

You know what's funny about this? There has only been one ork codex in the last decade and it still feels like there were multiple terrible codices

alphaecho wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.

AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.

Thank you. I don't play AoS so wouldn't have read that.

The passage still makes it clear that it is suggested not mandatory.

I assume it will be less of an issue as time goes by as new models replace old but the point still stands. If a player wants to rebase older models, more power to the modelling elbow but the average collector/ modeller cannot be compelled to immediately rebase 250+ Boyz. I know I'm not.

There will be problems if you want to add miniatures to the army tho. It is easy to just brush away now but it will be a major problem for all old ork players when they will be forced to rebase your entire collection down the road.

There are a LOT of things in 40k that are "suggestions" but in reallity has become hard rules if you want to have a game...

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


Funny you say this Lolman because the exact same snippet from GW stood out to me also.

We have HAD to be some of the most tactically sound players if we'd want any chance of winning games in previous editions. This is absolutely wrong.

It also concerns me that GW is going to take the approach of "Orks are basic, so their army will be basic to play".

I think you guys are reading way too much into it.

 jhnbrg wrote:

alphaecho wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.

AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.

Thank you. I don't play AoS so wouldn't have read that.

The passage still makes it clear that it is suggested not mandatory.

I assume it will be less of an issue as time goes by as new models replace old but the point still stands. If a player wants to rebase older models, more power to the modelling elbow but the average collector/ modeller cannot be compelled to immediately rebase 250+ Boyz. I know I'm not.

There will be problems if you want to add miniatures to the army tho. It is easy to just brush away now but it will be a major problem for all old ork players when they will be forced to rebase your entire collection down the road.

There are a LOT of things in 40k that are "suggestions" but in reallity has become hard rules if you want to have a game...

I'm never going to rebase my Boyz. I don't expect people I play with to rebase either. They either want to or don't or it's never been an issue for them because they have a new army with "current bases". To me it looked like GW skipped base size rules intentionally with the way they put the rules together. I'll just stop playing with random people if there are complaints.

If orks become fun enough to play again, I'll probably re-base all of them. It has always bugged me that almost every ork in existence is too big for his base.

I don't invest a whole lot into basing though, I prefer just painting them black again after I'm done painting the model. So cutting off the bases and gluing new black bases to my orks is nowhere near the effort it takes to properly base them.

I'm looking at the Sector Imperialis 32mm bases. Not super cheap, but less overpriced than most GW products.

Did anyone else know you can get them on walmart.com?

Hi, just thought I’d throw my two teef in.

My armies are RT era, square bases for fantasy and 25mm round for sci fi. Played in store, in house, in club, in competitions, never had a problem (‘cept that one who asked if mine was a Grot army. Git.)

Just saying.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I'm looking at the Sector Imperialis 32mm bases. Not super cheap, but less overpriced than most GW products.

Did anyone else know you can get them on walmart.com?

I've begun using them for all my newer armies to match their spaceship boarding themes, and they are realy nice to work with. They are made from the same plastic as the kits, unlike the black plastic for most bases, and they are a bit more hefty and sturdy I feel. Less issues with them sliding around anyway. I like them.

I plan to start mixing in Sector Mechanicum bases now those are available.

When I get round to converting my small Ork force into Freebooterz, I'll use them for that too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

From today's rumour engine. Now there are a few possibilities... But my immediate thought was an Ork squigskin cloak.

 Jidmah wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
As others already wrote,
"new" ork codexes have been a let down for some editions now,
so I am not hlding my breath for this one either.

But... I still love my green little guys and would be happy rulewise if:

Kommandos get their tankbusta bombs back.
Blood axes get their (granted, looted) rhino back.

You know what's funny about this? There has only been one ork codex in the last decade and it still feels like there were multiple terrible codices

I fell yah man. I only knew the last few editions but I feel like this. We're both ork players, we always wanted what was best for Orks and so with every edition it felt like our rules changed and our codex wasuodated to be out of date. I mean come on! They ignored orks for 2 editions! We had no codex for 6 year through 5th and 6th. So we were expecting something huge! Something that would make up for all those years (they had those years to get ready for an amazing fluff filled fun Orky codex that was useful... hell! They could have spent 1 of those years just doing an hour a day on the codex and it would have been amazing). But then we got 7th.... 6 years of wanting an update and we got something that wished we had the 4th edition codex back. XD Now we've waited 4 years for another codex as an apology note. I mean I was 15 when 4th edition came out! Come on! I kmow this might seem to some people as Ork players upset when other factions get less but as a supposed main founding faction we've felt like a tag on dlc for years now.
It's not easy to watch the tyranids, space marines, Imperial Guard get a codex every edition while you waied 6 years for 7th edition. XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Nah mate, emperor's children, Dark Eldar or a flag for the primaris Ultramarines made from the skin of ever xenos race.

AM didn't get a 7th Ed codex, so they are actually only one codex ahead of Orks, two with 8th Edition so far. The 6th Ed AM codex also gutted a lot of the flavour compared to the 5th ed one, which cut out much of the flavour of the 3.5/4th ed one.

As a Grey Knights player I feel for you Ork players. May your codex be filled with great stuff. I at least hope its better than mine!

Anyways I've been trying to look though the thread but have been unsuccessful thus far. Anyone heard any rumors on when we can expect this codex?

Moriarty wrote:
Hi, just thought I’d throw my two teef in.

My armies are RT era, square bases for fantasy and 25mm round for sci fi. Played in store, in house, in club, in competitions, never had a problem (‘cept that one who asked if mine was a Grot army. Git.)

Just saying.

How do you add miniatures to the armies? Do you have pictures?

The stiching is too crude to be Emperor's children. Compare it to Fabius Bile, who has very neat stiching.

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
As a Grey Knights player I feel for you Ork players. May your codex be filled with great stuff. I at least hope its better than mine!

Anyways I've been trying to look though the thread but have been unsuccessful thus far. Anyone heard any rumors on when we can expect this codex?

Current thinking is September/October.

 Haighus wrote:
The stiching is too crude to be Emperor's children. Compare it to Fabius Bile, who has very neat stiching.

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
As a Grey Knights player I feel for you Ork players. May your codex be filled with great stuff. I at least hope its better than mine!

Anyways I've been trying to look though the thread but have been unsuccessful thus far. Anyone heard any rumors on when we can expect this codex?

Current thinking is September/October.

Maybe it's just an emperor's children who forgot to go to Slaanesh's stitching class it holds every 50 years.

Anyway, I and other people keep bringing up rumours but I'm told they're rubbish and fake and then we go back to talking about anything. I don't know though, I still enjoy this thread for what it is.

As for the imperial guard codex. I was more talking about seeing them get the codex in 4th, 5th and 6th. We've both had it hard I will admit (we were the real armies after all for real 40k fans... none of that ultramarine elitism) but the IG had time to prepare for the crap in 7th. It was a gradual process through the Ward Years. We were just thrown something after 6 years and it was worse than anyone could imagine.
This is why i was so happy for IG to get the solid codex they did. They deserved it after what GW put yah through.

 Haighus wrote:
AM didn't get a 7th Ed codex, so they are actually only one codex ahead of Orks, two with 8th Edition so far. The 6th Ed AM codex also gutted a lot of the flavour compared to the 5th ed one, which cut out much of the flavour of the 3.5/4th ed one.

So 5th, 6th and 8th, thats actually 3 codexes compared to one since 4th edition.

Not that this has anything whatsoever to do with this thread.

 jhnbrg wrote:

Moriarty wrote:
Hi, just thought I’d throw my two teef in.

My armies are RT era, square bases for fantasy and 25mm round for sci fi. Played in store, in house, in club, in competitions, never had a problem (‘cept that one who asked if mine was a Grot army. Git.)

Just saying.

How do you add miniatures to the armies? Do you have pictures?

Hi,

ebay is your friend, here, and you'd be surprised at how many RT minis come out of the woodwork once word gets around. 'Here, you can have these, they were in the back of the cupboard' sort of thing.

Have pics of the Orks on LAF:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;cat=1133;u=1567

Cheers,

M.