Ork speculation/chat - [new rumour p75 and in OP-Clan Warlord Traits]

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**lolman1c**

Would make painboys a friendly choice and warbosses. Mega nobz would also be an interesting selection. Unfortunately, it ain't gunu happen.

**davou**

lolman1c wrote:
@Brian but Orks arn't simply a NPC scary race. They're a playable faction that many people relate too. Now stop making excuses for the lazy writing...

Its not lazy writing, it amkes a ton of sense. The person holding the book isnt an ork, they're a human with that perspective and experience. It's super hard to write from the perspective of something inhuman and make it feel real; you almost always just personify the person your writting about. Things like animal farm, wateship down etc etc... They all work because we'ere basically dealing with human minds inside of the bodies of something thats just conviniently not human. Even in star-trek, the characters that aren't human are always in a struggle to integrate with and relate to human society, not the other way around.

**TedNugent**

Kill team could be rough at 5" movement speed and no waaagh.

But at least the Kt rules let you move after an unsuccessful charge the full rolled distance.

I also wonder about boys without green tide and no mob rule special rules. Even with the very modest points reductions on a kitted mob with nob that's a painful pill when going up against primaris, etc.

The shooting would also be neutered pretty bad by the new negative hit modifiers.

The 3- saves on last wound are definitely going to make things harder to kill in KT.

Idk. I might play it but it seems to rest on a pretty mediocre baseline. I was hoping for ard boys at least.

**lolman1c**

davou wrote:
lolman1c wrote:
@Brian but Orks arn't simply a NPC scary race. They're a playable faction that many people relate too. Now stop making excuses for the lazy writing...

Its not lazy writing, it amkes a ton of sense. The person holding the book isnt an ork, they're a human with that perspective and experience. It's super hard to write from the perspective of something inhuman and make it feel real; you almost always just personify the person your writting about. Things like animal farm, wateship down etc etc... They all work because we'ere basically dealing with human minds inside of the bodies of something thats just conviniently not human. Even in star-trek, the characters that aren't human are always in a struggle to integrate with and relate to human society, not the other way around.

Oh... it's too hard... okay... geuss that's a great excuse for people selling expensive books. Geuss that means all the codecies, all the other BL books from an Orks perception, all the hundreds of amazing fan works I've seen over the years and past Ork characters were all written by geniuses far beyond BL's hiring level. Guess nobody got attached to orks and believed they were something that could be real until this book was written. Seriously though, if i wanted a Imperium vs Alien book I'd play tyranids but I do not. I play Orks... and I wanted an insight into ork culture.

However, we've had this argument far too often so I'll just copy and paste the final response last time before we turn this into the same thread as last time.

just remember that the "coming out of nowhere" bit is largely because Black Library service (and you can take that as you like) Imperial fans first and foremost and indulge the idea of the Imperial Perspective on all things (even though this has never been a consistent tone of 40k in any edition of the game) and thus it's not important how the Orks got there, and most of the writers probably don't care. You could certainly dwell on their ability to do so, or their authority, but they ultimately stuck to what they've had practice at (writing homoerotic Imperial Fluff Fiction) and done it to the usual multi-book epic affair. Black Library is disposable fiction, and by their own words, non-canon. They may influence GW's "Writers" into including this in the fluff (although I expect that will be a thing for future development and not this Codex. Don't get relieved when it doesn't happen this time), but in spite of my own personal disinterest in it (in terms of resonance, the debate is over) I do generally agree it's best to keep out of 40k, as the Orks getting bigger thing is an aspect of model porn that GW's designers will be too over-keen to indulge and the entire faction will be Flanderized. They should leave it in myth and those who like it can build their own beasts...

...My problem isn't the possibility, but the context in which it happened. In a sense, this is about poor storytelling than possibility. Because the from out of nowhere thing is difficult to accept. However, in the specific context, it does work, and now I have to do the duty of the skum that wrote the books and explain (seeing as they didn't think it important, or, didn't think). The fact is, the Orks faced the Emperor himself (who is nearly killed by a huge Warboss) and his Primarchs during the great crusade. They then leave a power chasm, where the Orks lick their wounds. It's probable that Orks being aware of such power grow to reflect it, and they fight amongst other Orks until they have a collective Waaagh. This all could have happened in the background of the Heresy, and the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath held off the Waaagh for quite some time. That's plausible. It's plausible that Orks, in that context would start far too big for neighbouring Ork Rivals to stop them, and from that position, its highly unlikely that this tide of escalation could be stopped, and as Orks had encountered Imperial Titans, they realised that they needed versions of their own.

What pisses me off is that in Waaargh! The Orks, this inspires the construction of Gargants so that they can beat the Imperials. In this series, they merely make it something unconscious that the Orks do that has nothing whatever to do with their inventiveness, yet at the same time, giving them a planet with a mind of its own, tellyporta tech, and barely a gargant in sight (because GW has decided that all important changes to Orks must happen in Armageddon), and to further hammer this home, they take the bit of fluff where this inspiration happens (In the Warp, Something Stirred) and use it as a title for one of those gakky pulp novels. We didn't need the invention of super-massive Ork Warlords at that point in history. What we needed was our first Waaagh, and Black Library fethed that up in epic fashion and gave us a pathetic Imperial Snoozefest. That's the bit to be annoyed about if you ask me.

IE, you like it I don't like it, you've put your point I've put my point so let's move on and talk about orks in game again at the current time again.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TedNugent wrote:
Kill team could be rough at 5" movement speed and no waaagh.

But at least the Kt rules let you move after an unsuccessful charge the full rolled distance.

I also wonder about boys without green tide and no mob rule special rules. Even with the very modest points reductions on a kitted mob with nob that's a painful pill when going up against primaris, etc.

The shooting would also be neutered pretty bad by the new negative hit modifiers.

The 3- saves on last wound are definitely going to make things harder to kill in KT.

Idk. I might play it but it seems to rest on a pretty mediocre baseline. I was hoping for ard boys at least.

If Mob rule was removed this woukd have dire consequences for our army... and honestly would be unfair seen as tyranids get theirs. XD i suppose we would be forced to take multiple warbosses to get the mortal wounds but not lose half your army.

**Billagio**

I wouldnt worry much about not having mob rule or green tide rules on boyz since they arnt in KT. Having more than 20 models in a unit for green tide would almost never come into play in KT, and since KT is mostly MSU having more than 8 models in a unit would be pretty rare as well.

**lolman1c**

Haha, no. We were just discussing potential nerfs they might fling our way.

**Billagio**

I know, I was just saying that just because those rules are not in KT does not mean they wont be present in the codex, largely because those 2 rules would be irrelevant in KT.

**Nightlord1987**

So it doesn't seem like Killteam kommandos can take burnaz or Big Shootaz. Not a big deal for Killteam, I'll just take a regular Burna Boy but I certainly hope that's not the case for Codex Orkz considering I do have the proper metal Kommando with Burna model.

**kadeton**

Billagio wrote:
I know, I was just saying that just because those rules are not in KT does not mean they wont be present in the codex, largely because those 2 rules would be irrelevant in KT.

Mob Rule could easily be adapted to Kill Team. There are tests you take on the Leadership of the model, e.g. to avoid being shaken or to bottle out - Orks could just use the number of Orks still in play, and/or the Leadership values of other Orks within a certain range, as a way of translating that rule. Basically, assume all the Orks on the field are part of the same "unit", and Mob Rule transfers pretty cleanly.

Green Tide wouldn't make much sense, but I don't think it should exist in 40K either.

**lolman1c**

Well, now that KT is basically out we can get back on with waiting. Now my hope is that we will get something soon because I don't think GW has any news for the next few weeks.

Basically we will get 1 or 2 situation. 1. Just the codex gets a date and it comes out. 2. If we do have anything new then the codex will be announced at a big event showing off all the new stuff.

**An Actual Englishman**

Isn't Adeptus Titanicus the next big release for GW?

So we likely have at least another 2, if not 3 weeks wait on our hands, assuming we're out before Space Pups.

The lack of anything new rumour-wise is disconcerting. Not even a screen grab, nothing.

**BrianDavion**

lolman1c wrote:
Well, now that KT is basically out we can get back on with waiting. Now my hope is that we will get something soon because I don't think GW has any news for the next few weeks.

Basically we will get 1 or 2 situation. 1. Just the codex gets a date and it comes out. 2. If we do have anything new then the codex will be announced at a big event showing off all the new stuff.

kill team boxes and terran kits for the next few weeks is my guess, but I suspect we'll see Orks in Augest, I don't have anything to support it except for the Armageddon Omnibus coming out that month, my gut says it'll come out along side Orks or just before, to hype the release.

**lolman1c**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Isn't Adeptus Titanicus the next big release for GW?

So we likely have at least another 2, if not 3 weeks wait on our hands, assuming we're out before Space Pups.

The lack of anything new rumour-wise is disconcerting. Not even a screen grab, nothing.

At the prices I'm hearing for Epic 2.0 I'm not even interested in that game and I own a small Ork epic army. So this might be a very boring few months.

Eye, even GSC have had both potential rule leaks and confirmed model leaks and announcements and they come out after.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
lolman1c wrote:
Well, now that KT is basically out we can get back on with waiting. Now my hope is that we will get something soon because I don't think GW has any news for the next few weeks.

Basically we will get 1 or 2 situation. 1. Just the codex gets a date and it comes out. 2. If we do have anything new then the codex will be announced at a big event showing off all the new stuff.

kill team boxes and terran kits for the next few weeks is my guess, but I suspect we'll see Orks in Augest, I don't have anything to support it except for the Armageddon Omnibus coming out that month, my gut says it'll come out along side Orks or just before, to hype the release.

shouldn't it be the other way around? The book is there to hype the Orks?

Orkust maybe?
Or Orktember?
Hope it is not Orktober,
Oh god please no Orkmass.

**BrianDavion**

my guess is late august and to mid september of Orks and Space Wolves (Ork pre-orders on Aug 25th maybe?) this is actually good news as september is tradtionally a big release month, I suspect Orks and space wolves will get the first half of the month, with the second half going to stand alone kits for the new stuff from AOS Soul wars.

**lolman1c**

I still predict (even saw this before the leaks) tha GSC wil be the big Xenos update.

**TedNugent**

lolman1c wrote:
I still predict (even saw this before the leaks) tha GSC wil be the big Xenos update.

Well they're definitely getting a huge and well promoted model release, while we've literally seen nothjng on orks.

**lolman1c**

TedNugent wrote:
lolman1c wrote:
I still predict (even saw this before the leaks) tha GSC wil be the big Xenos update.

Well they're definitely getting a huge and well promoted model release, while we've literally seen nothjng on orks.

I can't wait for the "I told you so post" I'll make. Genuinely said this on day 1 of the ork codex announced. I did an analysis of how GW promots products over ime and it fit perfectly with the time line... thrn people told me to shut up and it was just Kill team... But I knew GSC would come out of nowhere to steal the xenos spotlight. And good for them I feel bad for their players. XD (as a tear forms in my eye from wanting new buggies, warboss and big meks).

**geargutz**

i know right. it was a big hint when only a week or 2 after codex anouncment they were already lubeing up the squig for gsc.

we possibly have rumor pics of maybe a wheel, some gun barrels, and maybe an orks gob. but they were sooooooo stoked to do a "funny" reveal video to show off the new gsc models.

**lolman1c**

What if GW showed a bunch of orks in a trailer than a giant hand comes down and smashes them, brushes them aside and GSC get like 20 new models and a big sign comes up and goes "also, discontinuation of Ork line... also this is their last codex, also in lore all the orks get destroyed by a virus by the emperor or something, alsp the codex is worse than 7th edition boyz are now 20 pts each T3 S3!"

**davou**

lolman1c wrote:
What if GW showed a bunch of orks in a trailer than a giant hand comes down and smashes them, brushes them aside and GSC get like 20 new models and a big sign comes up and goes "also, discontinuation of Ork line... also this is their last codex, also in lore all the orks get destroyed by a virus by the emperor or something, alsp the codex is worse than 7th edition boyz are now 20 pts each T3 S3!"

I think you're almost there, but if you tried just a litle bit harder to be absolutely negative about everything you might reach maximum toxicity in your posts. Keep goping mate!

**An Actual Englishman**

Right guys, lets not attack each other or go into super depressive Orks are hated by GW and we will soon cease to exist mode.

Either way you cut it there's a lot of Ork players and I suspect we account for a decent amount of spend year on year.

I just watched the latest Signals from the Frontline and Reece has me somewhat stoked for what might be coming out with Orks. He maintains it'll be amazing and that to me suggests new models. He literally said he can't wait to see how we react.

Keep those green fingers crossed!

Only downer is it looks like we got at least another week of no information.

**lolman1c**

davou wrote:
lolman1c wrote:
What if GW showed a bunch of orks in a trailer than a giant hand comes down and smashes them, brushes them aside and GSC get like 20 new models and a big sign comes up and goes "also, discontinuation of Ork line... also this is their last codex, also in lore all the orks get destroyed by a virus by the emperor or something, alsp the codex is worse than 7th edition boyz are now 20 pts each T3 S3!"

I think you're almost there, but if you tried just a litle bit harder to be absolutely negative about everything you might reach maximum toxicity in your posts. Keep goping mate!

Well somebody doesn't understand British humour if it walked up and spanked his bottom. Try being insulting again next time when you actually see someone being serious. (Btw, to make sure I don't get banned, and also to be sincere, please read this post in a none insulting trying to be friendly 1960s sicom kinda way).

Edit:
I'm going to end this here Davou... I have nothing against you but that was an uncalled for level of sarcasm. It actually kind of hurt for what was supposed to be a joke that actually uplifted the darkness of this thread. I'm sorry if you felt otherwise but please in future think about what you reply.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Right guys, lets not attack each other or go into super depressive Orks are hated by GW and we will soon cease to exist mode.

Either way you cut it there's a lot of Ork players and I suspect we account for a decent amount of spend year on year.

I just watched the latest Signals from the Frontline and Reece has me somewhat stoked for what might be coming out with Orks. He maintains it'll be amazing and that to me suggests new models. He literally said he can't wait to see how we react.

Keep those green fingers crossed!

Only downer is it looks like we got at least another week of no information.

Back me up here dude.. isn't this something you'd see on a BBC sketch show? It's Dark Humour at its best... I wasn't being negative at all and anybody could see that because everything I said was way over the top ludicrous!

My real opinion, of which I expressed many times, clearly shows I expect at least one thing... The fb page keeps teling ork players something big is comming.

**Billagio**

lolman1c wrote:
davou wrote:
lolman1c wrote:
What if GW showed a bunch of orks in a trailer than a giant hand comes down and smashes them, brushes them aside and GSC get like 20 new models and a big sign comes up and goes "also, discontinuation of Ork line... also this is their last codex, also in lore all the orks get destroyed by a virus by the emperor or something, alsp the codex is worse than 7th edition boyz are now 20 pts each T3 S3!"

I think you're almost there, but if you tried just a litle bit harder to be absolutely negative about everything you might reach maximum toxicity in your posts. Keep goping mate!

Well somebody doesn't understand British humour if it walked up and spanked his bottom. Try being insulting again next time when you actually see someone being serious.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Right guys, lets not attack each other or go into super depressive Orks are hated by GW and we will soon cease to exist mode.

Either way you cut it there's a lot of Ork players and I suspect we account for a decent amount of spend year on year.

I just watched the latest Signals from the Frontline and Reece has me somewhat stoked for what might be coming out with Orks. He maintains it'll be amazing and that to me suggests new models. He literally said he can't wait to see how we react.

Keep those green fingers crossed!

Only downer is it looks like we got at least another week of no information.

Back me up here dude.. isn't this something you'd see on a BBC sketch show? It's Dark Humour at its best... I wasn't being negative at all and anybody could see that because everything I said was way over the top ludicrous!

My real opinion, of which I expressed many times, clearly shows I expect at least one thing... The fb page keeps teling ork players something big is comming.

"Big" things coming. Prime Orks confirmed!

Which FB page is hinting at orks stuff on the way?

**SemperMortis**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Right guys, lets not attack each other or go into super depressive Orks are hated by GW and we will soon cease to exist mode.

Either way you cut it there's a lot of Ork players and I suspect we account for a decent amount of spend year on year.

I just watched the latest Signals from the Frontline and Reece has me somewhat stoked for what might be coming out with Orks. He maintains it'll be amazing and that to me suggests new models. He literally said he can't wait to see how we react.

Keep those green fingers crossed!

Only downer is it looks like we got at least another week of no information.

No offense Englishman, but I trust reece's opinion about as much as I trust a Wet fart after Taco Night

**lolman1c**

@Bill

Recently just by checking we have posts like

'Oh, we will.... we will.... and when we do.... you won't be crying any more. We promise.'

Just marketing talk but they're doing a lotmof it. Normally they just ignore it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Right guys, lets not attack each other or go into super depressive Orks are hated by GW and we will soon cease to exist mode.

Either way you cut it there's a lot of Ork players and I suspect we account for a decent amount of spend year on year.

I just watched the latest Signals from the Frontline and Reece has me somewhat stoked for what might be coming out with Orks. He maintains it'll be amazing and that to me suggests new models. He literally said he can't wait to see how we react.

Keep those green fingers crossed!

Only downer is it looks like we got at least another week of no information.

No offense Englishman, but I trust reece's opinion about as much as I trust a Wet fart after Taco Night

Oh Gork... if Reece likes it then we're screwed... okay now I'm seriously being negative (so get your insult ready Dav). This... this guy! Ohhhh man! This is the same dude who said the Stompa would be amazing and gretchin were the best unit in our codex..... Bloood boiling! Need! To cool! Down!

But no, it could be because he didn't understand the meta (even though he play tested it) when he said that. But I heard a few things both good and bad about him that leave me conflicted. Also, he's the kinda guy who probably has different interets to me... (fom what I hear he's the kinda guy who wants big models, competitive single dominating list and fantasy monster orc kinda feel. While I want remade older models, maybe a competitive list but mostly just every type of play valid for casual at least and the 1970s/80s British teck crazy Orks).

**Billagio**

lolman1c wrote:
@Bill

Recently just by checking we have posts like

'Oh, we will.... we will.... and when we do.... you won't be crying any more. We promise.'

Just marketing talk but they're doing a lotmof it. Normally they just ignore it.

On the 40k official page or something?

**An Actual Englishman**

lolman1c wrote:
Back me up here dude.. isn't this something you'd see on a BBC sketch show? It's Dark Humour at its best... I wasn't being negative at all and anybody could see that because everything I said was way over the top ludicrous!

My real opinion, of which I expressed many times, clearly shows I expect at least one thing... The fb page keeps teling ork players something big is comming.

I wouldn't say it's 'at it's best'

but fair enough, I didn't think you were being serious. Sarcasm is hard to convey over text mind.

SemperMortis wrote:
No offense Englishman, but I trust reece's opinion about as much as I trust a Wet fart after Taco Night

Lol, none taken!

Reece isn't perfect but he is a serious advocate of Orks and is probably our closest ally to the design team at the moment. I've seen him play Dread mob and outright state that some of our options are broken. Of course he's not going to do it on the first reveal since he wants to keep GW sweet.

**Formosa**

So.... beast series has an Ork DIPLOMAT..... yep....

Seems like the 40k Orks are NOT the Krork in an almost literal sense, the Krork seem to be the pinnacle of what the Orks can rise to be, manufacturing, actual culture, farming etc. This series is going a long way to explain how the Krork could have been a threat to the eldar and necrons.

Old ones knew what they were doing.

**An Actual Englishman**

Formosa wrote:
So.... beast series has an Ork DIPLOMAT..... yep....

Seems like the 40k Orks are NOT the Krork in an almost literal sense, the Krork seem to be the pinnacle of what the Orks can rise to be, manufacturing, actual culture, farming etc. This series is going a long way to explain how the Krork could have been a threat to the eldar and necrons.

Old ones knew what they were doing.

Orks have manufacturing, kultur and farming...

I think the Krork and Orks are synonymous. Krorks are simply the controlled and focused evolution of the species while Orks are the uncontrolled version, left to evolve as the situation dictates.

In a universe where there is 'only war' it's not too difficult to see why they evolved in a barbaric, might is right, enslaving kinda way.

**Formosa**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Formosa wrote:
So.... beast series has an Ork DIPLOMAT..... yep....

Seems like the 40k Orks are NOT the Krork in an almost literal sense, the Krork seem to be the pinnacle of what the Orks can rise to be, manufacturing, actual culture, farming etc. This series is going a long way to explain how the Krork could have been a threat to the eldar and necrons.

Old ones knew what they were doing.

Orks have manufacturing, kultur and farming...

I think the Krork and Orks are synonymous. Krorks are simply the controlled and focused evolution of the species while Orks are the uncontrolled version, left to evolve as the situation dictates.

In a universe where there is 'only war' it's not too difficult to see why they evolved in a barbaric, might is right, enslaving kinda way.

Not like this, we’re talking an Ork civilisation and not a mass of competing warboses, proper cities, not ramshackle ones, think of something along the lines of the imperium but it’s made up of Orks.

These books seem to indicate that the Krork were possibly a civilisation in the same manner as eldar and necrons, not the barely thinking beasts there eventually became.

Orks didn’t evolve, they were uplifted or created, the book has a magos that dissects an Ork brain and the creative centre is nowhere as large as it should be, but is directly linked to the part of its brain that governs psychic ability (he theorises), that means that Orks become exponentially more intelligent the more powerful the more powerful the gestalt psychic field is, reaching an apex or singularity of culture and intelligence.

It also seems to confirm that some Ork tech only works for them due to this psychic field.