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 Formosa wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
So.... beast series has an Ork DIPLOMAT..... yep....

Seems like the 40k Orks are NOT the Krork in an almost literal sense, the Krork seem to be the pinnacle of what the Orks can rise to be, manufacturing, actual culture, farming etc. This series is going a long way to explain how the Krork could have been a threat to the eldar and necrons.

Old ones knew what they were doing.

Orks have manufacturing, kultur and farming...

I think the Krork and Orks are synonymous. Krorks are simply the controlled and focused evolution of the species while Orks are the uncontrolled version, left to evolve as the situation dictates.

In a universe where there is 'only war' it's not too difficult to see why they evolved in a barbaric, might is right, enslaving kinda way.

Not like this, we’re talking an Ork civilisation and not a mass of competing warboses, proper cities, not ramshackle ones, think of something along the lines of the imperium but it’s made up of Orks.

These books seem to indicate that the Krork were possibly a civilisation in the same manner as eldar and necrons, not the barely thinking beasts there eventually became.

Orks didn’t evolve, they were uplifted or created, the book has a magos that dissects an Ork brain and the creative centre is nowhere as large as it should be, but is directly linked to the part of its brain that governs psychic ability (he theorises), that means that Orks become exponentially more intelligent the more powerful the more powerful the gestalt psychic field is, reaching an apex or singularity of culture and intelligence.

It also seems to confirm that some Ork tech only works for them due to this psychic field.

Here's an intreasting thought, Mechanium suggests that the warp has basicly a part of it (or something) where all technology that ever is or was is stored. Could it be the Orks psykic gestalt effectively allows them to tap into that?

I haven't finished The Beast Arises series yet. I'm on Watchers in Death, I think. I keep stalling out, and taking breaks to read other books. So maybe there are parts further along that I just haven't got to yet that will change my mind.

Maybe I've been reading Ork lore/fiction/fluff wrong all these years, but I personally don't get why people say that orks from TBA are how orks should be. To me, they're how orks have always been, just dialed up a notch. Orks have always brutal,scary monsters and a serious threat to the galaxy. The goofy funny stuff is when you're looking at things from the ork's point of view, not the the viewpoint of the rest of the other races of the galaxy. People also bring this up when discussing the orks in Rynn's World, which I think is basically the same thing, a view of Orks from an Imperial perspective not the ork's/omnipotent narrator's perspective.

Orks have always had a varied and interesting culture behind the scenes, if we still consider older books like 'Ere We Go to be at least semi-cannon. A lot of the interesting behind-the-scenes stuff just hasn't been revisited by GW for the last twenty years, but it's been there. Part of it is that stories are told from the Imperial perspective, and humans rarely see anything of the orks other than choppas being swung at their heads. Humans for the most part don't see all the interesting variations of oddboy, or the impressive semi-underground (and underfoot) economy and entrepreneurship of the gretchin.

It reminds me of how often the humans underestimate and are surprised by the orks in the novels. In most of the Black Library novels featuring orks it start out with the humans thinking something like "Orks are big, stupid, primitive savages" and then pretty soon they are left wondering "Why are the orks so hard to kill? Why do they have so much advanced tech? Why do they keep outsmarting us and making us look like fools?" It could be explained that the orks in every novel are very unusual, and the writers don't want to portray "normal" orks because that would be boring. I tend to think it's more of the following two factors:
1. Imperial propaganda leads human characters in novels to underestimate orks
2. Quite a bit of the experienced human characters would probably have dealt with relatively small groups of feral orks, which is quite different than dealing with a proper Waaaagh!. Kind of like how if the Orks were to invade an Imperial backwater where the humans had 18th Century tech the Orks might think humans were a bunch of pushovers. Then if those same orks tried to invade a Fortress World they'd be in for a real surprise.

So far there has only been one part of TBA that has seemed substantially different from what has been written about orks in the past to me.

I actually didn't like that part. Everything else pretty much been in line with what has been written about the orks in the past, just dialed up a notch because it is beyond the biggest Waaaghs of ~M40. That bit didn't seem very orky to me.

Maybe I'll run into some different stuff as I read the last couple books in the series.

It’s not the similarities that are jarring dakka flakka, it’s the differences, the scale, intelligence, not animal cunning that they have been shown to have, but actual intelligence, large scale planning, overwhelming technology, psychological warfare, all these and more add up to paint a very different Ork enemy.

We all know and love Ork kulture, but have never seen Ork Culture, we have never seen finely made Ork anything let alone personal wargear, vehicles etc. These things all make these Orks follow a different theme, it also adds a new element to the Orks we know and love, can “our” Orks ever reach that level, it also explains why the imperium works so hard to make sure no other warboss reaches that level.

It’s a damn good series and adds a lot to the 40k fluff.

 Formosa wrote:
It’s not the similarities that are jarring dakka flakka, it’s the differences, the scale, intelligence, not animal cunning that they have been shown to have, but actual intelligence, large scale planning, overwhelming technology, psychological warfare, all these and more add up to paint a very different Ork enemy.

We all know and love Ork kulture, but have never seen Ork Culture, we have never seen finely made Ork anything let alone personal wargear, vehicles etc. These things all make these Orks follow a different theme, it also adds a new element to the Orks we know and love, can “our” Orks ever reach that level, it also explains why the imperium works so hard to make sure no other warboss reaches that level.

It’s a damn good series and adds a lot to the 40k fluff.

We've had references to well made ork technology like things made by Orkimedes and equipment used by Warboss Nazdreg. Ghaz and Boss Snikrot both have successfully used advanced strategies and terror tactics. I'd consider these kinds of things to be precursors to Beast level advancement.

The thing is that to me there isn't a jarring difference between the orks in TBA and what has been written about orks in the past. Religion with a priesthood, art and musicians, agriculture and economics have all been around since the beginning. Most of the ork kulture in TBA is just revisiting what had already been written about the orks many years ago. I don't remember reading about a diplomat oddboy before TBA, but there have long been orks fluent in Gothic and considering there are ork accountants a diplomat oddboy doesn't seem that weird.

In many of the novels featuring orks the orks use significant amount of planning and strategy beyond what I figure is a basic instinctual grasp of tactics. Defense in depth, complicated ambushes and taking worlds for their strategic value to the Waaagh! seem to pop-up in a lot of novels. Heck, there are also sneaky political maneuvers where orks nominally on the same side try to get each other killed.

In terms of technology orks regularly use gravitic and teleportation tech that is very advanced by Imperial standards. Ork super-weapons have been seen numerous times. I will grant that the widescale teleportation of giant attack moons with planet-destroying gravitic weapons is beyond what the orks of the 41st Millenium have done. What I'm trying to say isn't that the orks in TBA aren't more advanced than the orks in the 41st millennium, but rather that they are a couple steps ahead and not something unexpected from an omnipotent narrators point of view. That the orks could build an incredibly powerful weapon like an attack moon isn't that surprising. Things of that scale are rare accomplishments for the orks (or any species) but its a big galaxy and orks have done some crazy things. What's surprising and impressive to me is that there are so many of them at once.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that orks get bigger, smarter and more advanced as their numbers grow, so what I read in TBA wasn't surprising to me, it was just the natural progression and fitting with existing ork lore. It didn't seem to me like we were getting something entirely new, just mostly something a step beyond what had already been seen but following the same path as what had come before.

I will give you the point about things being finely made, like what I said with the Temple Gargant. I actually don't like that part though. I don't want to see orks turning into butterflies. I want them to turn into bigger, meaner caterpillars.

I will also say that the human characters are often surprised by what they see orks doing, and they didn't seem to think orks were capable of it and assume that this must be some new development of the orks. I chalk a lot of that up to what I wrote about previously, that humans in the 40k universe are almost always surprised by the orks and I think it's due to a combination of Imperial propaganda and prior experience with feral orks.

I hope I don't come off as saying that you're definitely wrong, Formosa. I just see it a different way and 40k lore is so big and self-contradicting that's its easy to come to different conclusions. Also, I haven't read the last few books of TBA.

To me what makes TBA really standout is that it really isn't anything we've not been told before, it is just "Orks as we know them dialed up to 11" for me? that's PRECISELY what makes it so intreasting, I can see how TBA Orks could come about, it makes ALL Orks terrifying because this isn't an outlier, this is the natural progression. It makes Gazakul terrifying because if he's not stopped.....

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Right guys, lets not attack each other or go into super depressive Orks are hated by GW and we will soon cease to exist mode.

Either way you cut it there's a lot of Ork players and I suspect we account for a decent amount of spend year on year.

I just watched the latest Signals from the Frontline and Reece has me somewhat stoked for what might be coming out with Orks. He maintains it'll be amazing and that to me suggests new models. He literally said he can't wait to see how we react.

Just watched it. It seemed to me that Reece was stoked about the codex, not the models...at least that's what I'm hoping for at any rate.

His comments were direct enough that I'd count them as "rumors." Kind of sad, in a way, that we're so in the dark that we hope for rumors as much as facts.

As far as the codex is concerned, I'd by thrilled if it got us into the squishy middle, while allowing more than one play style. I don't really care if that's point reductions, more output, or usable rules...as long as it's something.

New models, in my book, are just a way to support the local flgs.

BrianDavion wrote:
To me what makes TBA really standout is that it really isn't anything we've not been told before, it is just "Orks as we know them dialed up to 11" for me? that's PRECISELY what makes it so intreasting, I can see how TBA Orks could come about, it makes ALL Orks terrifying because this isn't an outlier, this is the natural progression. It makes Gazakul terrifying because if he's not stopped.....

Exactly, we rarely (if ever) see orks progress to that stage and with that level of unity and technological progression. Its a sign that it is possible for orks to get there if unchecked and Ghazzy certainly seems to be on his way. Its interesting to me to see if he can get to the point where he is as much of a threat as The Beast was.

 JimOnMars wrote:
As far as the codex is concerned, I'd by thrilled if it got us into the squishy middle, while allowing more than one play style. I don't really care if that's point reductions, more output, or usable rules...as long as it's something.

I agree with this. I'd rather have a bunch of builds that can make a decent showing even if they are unlikely to make the top table, than have one stupid broken build based around a couple units and then have everything else be garbage.

I think that most people that actually love a faction don't want to have it be so good it's broken. It's funny (but sad) how quickly many people will turn on a group that got a codex that is perceived as overpowered. Last edition there was a lot of pity for guard players, and now less than a year after their codex is out I see a lot of scorn. Hopefully Dark Eldar don't end up in the same boat.

Another thing I've noticed is that some people treat entire factions as being homogenous, and if there is a single flavor of that faction that is really good then to them the entire faction is great and they think that those players have no right to complain. Of course to people who love specific units or specific Chapters/Craftworld/whatever that wouldn't normally use certain units their army might suck even if their codex is overall good.

Of course context means a lot when talking about this. When someone says they wish something were good sometimes they mean good enough to win a 200 person tournament and sometimes they mean good enough not to usually get tabled by turn three in casual games.

 Billagio wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
To me what makes TBA really standout is that it really isn't anything we've not been told before, it is just "Orks as we know them dialed up to 11" for me? that's PRECISELY what makes it so intreasting, I can see how TBA Orks could come about, it makes ALL Orks terrifying because this isn't an outlier, this is the natural progression. It makes Gazakul terrifying because if he's not stopped.....

Exactly, we rarely (if ever) see orks progress to that stage and with that level of unity and technological progression. Its a sign that it is possible for orks to get there if unchecked and Ghazzy certainly seems to be on his way. Its interesting to me to see if he can get to the point where he is as much of a threat as The Beast was.

yeah, the war of the beast also was intreasting in that it displyed an evolving approuch to the Orks I suspect pre-beast the IoM had an approuch of "containment"

I think we all forget that before TBA series the Orks did have gigantic tecknolgy home worlds.. I mean look Gharkul Blackfang.. he personally fought the emperor himself! There was an Ork (not sure if same guy) who outright almost won against the Emperor if Horus had not have stepped in to save him... Orks have the power to defeat the emperor himself in 1 on 1 combat and this is even before they wrote the beast series. If anything the Beast series was always to me more of the same stuff but making the Orks feel more like aliens than Orks. It's why I would have loved something from the Ork perception because we've never seen that! What we have is a classic case of an unreliable narrative. Because everything is from the imperium perspective we have no idea what the Orks were like... they are obviously surprised that the Orks have cities but for all we know on the cities the Orks could still be Orks bartering for squigs with their teeth. And we will never know because BL refuses to do a story like this from the Orks perspective. The closest we have is Ghaz and it's why everyone loves him. He's a mascot for the Orks because his story is so detailed and we know everything about him... ask any rando in gw store what the names of the Beats are and half of them wil go "who are the beasts?"

 lolman1c wrote:
I think we all forget that before TBA series the Orks did have gigantic tecknolgy home worlds.. I mean look Gharkul Blackfang.. he personally fought the emperor himself! There was an Ork (not sure if same guy) who outright almost won against the Emperor if Horus had not have stepped in to save him... Orks have the power to defeat the emperor himself in 1 on 1 combat and this is even before they wrote the beast series. If anything the Beast series was always to me more of the same stuff but making the Orks feel more like aliens than Orks. It's why I would have loved something from the Ork perception because we've never seen that! What we have is a classic case of an unreliable narrative. Because everything is from the imperium perspective we have no idea what the Orks were like... they are obviously surprised that the Orks have cities but for all we know on the cities the Orks could still be Orks bartering for squigs with their teeth. And we will never know because BL refuses to do a story like this from the Orks perspective. The closest we have is Ghaz and it's why everyone loves him. He's a mascot for the Orks because his story is so detailed and we know everything about him... ask any rando in gw store what the names of the Beats are and half of them wil go "who are the beasts?"

though if they answered "ghaskul" that is technically right (since mag uruk thraka translates to "the beast")

i agree, we need more ork centered writings. the audio dramas they do have are a blast to hear from the ork perpective, i would be happy if they just ramped up the production of these short stories. you dont need to have a 50 book series from the ork perspective, you can have a bunch of short stories and just release it in an omnibus.
imagine a bunch of stories from various ork perspectives. the "waagh Rig" driver that raids umie convoys, the grots persepctive short that might see him get a nice killaakan upgrade to see what goes through the mind of one of those murder buckets, a fighting pit match between some nobz but the mek was a little over enthusiastic when designing the traps and wpns in it, and a bloody good green skin rambo ultra sneeky mission. i would buy these like kandy (the "K" makes it more orky).

but you bring up a sure fire seller idea like this and some git just spitz off the narrative that "nobody can relate to anything that isnt a human". these guys have no imagination and dont understand other markets...lets look at the often despised warcraft, when there is a large community that plays "horde" then your argument is invalid. heck if you just take the 40k player base already and there are many who play xenos, and in aos there are those who love to collect faction "not umie lookin",

Guy Haley does a good job of writing from an ork perspective, IMO.

My ideal ork book would be a graphic novel in the style of Deff Skwadron. Super cartoony style with the orks doing hilarious things that make the reader laugh. But after every funny ork comic there would be a short story of the same events, told from the human (or other non-ork) perspective with accompanying "realistic" artwork. These short stories would emphasize the the horror and brutality of orks, and make the reader feel bad for having laughed.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
The thing is that to me there isn't a jarring difference between the orks in TBA and what has been written about orks in the past. Religion with a priesthood, art and musicians, agriculture and economics have all been around since the beginning. Most of the ork kulture in TBA is just revisiting what had already been written about the orks many years ago. I don't remember reading about a diplomat oddboy before TBA, but there have long been orks fluent in Gothic and considering there are ork accountants a diplomat oddboy doesn't seem that weird.

In many of the novels featuring orks the orks use significant amount of planning and strategy beyond what I figure is a basic instinctual grasp of tactics. Defense in depth, complicated ambushes and taking worlds for their strategic value to the Waaagh! seem to pop-up in a lot of novels. Heck, there are also sneaky political maneuvers where orks nominally on the same side try to get each other killed.

In terms of technology orks regularly use gravitic and teleportation tech that is very advanced by Imperial standards. Ork super-weapons have been seen numerous times. I will grant that the widescale teleportation of giant attack moons with planet-destroying gravitic weapons is beyond what the orks of the 41st Millenium have done. What I'm trying to say isn't that the orks in TBA aren't more advanced than the orks in the 41st millennium, but rather that they are a couple steps ahead and not something unexpected from an omnipotent narrators point of view. That the orks could build an incredibly powerful weapon like an attack moon isn't that surprising. Things of that scale are rare accomplishments for the orks (or any species) but its a big galaxy and orks have done some crazy things. What's surprising and impressive to me is that there are so many of them at once.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that orks get bigger, smarter and more advanced as their numbers grow, so what I read in TBA wasn't surprising to me, it was just the natural progression and fitting with existing ork lore. It didn't seem to me like we were getting something entirely new, just mostly something a step beyond what had already been seen but following the same path as what had come before.

I will give you the point about things being finely made, like what I said with the Temple Gargant. I actually don't like that part though. I don't want to see orks turning into butterflies. I want them to turn into bigger, meaner caterpillars.

I will also say that the human characters are often surprised by what they see orks doing, and they didn't seem to think orks were capable of it and assume that this must be some new development of the orks. I chalk a lot of that up to what I wrote about previously, that humans in the 40k universe are almost always surprised by the orks and I think it's due to a combination of Imperial propaganda and prior experience with feral orks.

I hope I don't come off as saying that you're definitely wrong, Formosa. I just see it a different way and 40k lore is so big and self-contradicting that's its easy to come to different conclusions. Also, I haven't read the last few books of TBA.

This. All day this

TBA is the natural progression of the Ork. The most scary and best bit for me is that it isn't an end point either, it is simply the most advanced point of a WAAAGGGHH!! that the IOM has ever dealt with.

Interesting point about finely made things - if I remember correctly the choppas, sluggas and armour of all the Orks I'm that series is described as much finer equipment with a greater level of detail than has been seen before. The diplomat's staff for example is also described as a work of artistry. It might be a quirk of the Beast's WAAAAAGGGH! of course.

Also for reference we have seen a comparable (though far less fleshed out) version of this sort of WAAAAAGGGH! in the very first precursor book to the HH series - a wolf of ash and fire. It's similar but still different because the focus of that book was a 'Primeork' Big Mek. Whereas the Beast's WAAAAAGGGH! seemed the utilise the natural strengths of the Ork resulting in the massive lads we know and love, the Big Mek in a wolf of ash and fire used some pretty dark technology to create more powerful Orks. If I remember at one point a space marine almost throws up when he realises what he's actually fighting.

The Primeork Big Mek is the guy who almost kills the emperor that lolman mentions above. He forces the emperor to reveal the warp to Horus and in some way causes the HH.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Right guys, lets not attack each other or go into super depressive Orks are hated by GW and we will soon cease to exist mode.

Either way you cut it there's a lot of Ork players and I suspect we account for a decent amount of spend year on year.

I just watched the latest Signals from the Frontline and Reece has me somewhat stoked for what might be coming out with Orks. He maintains it'll be amazing and that to me suggests new models. He literally said he can't wait to see how we react.

Just watched it. It seemed to me that Reece was stoked about the codex, not the models...at least that's what I'm hoping for at any rate.

His comments were direct enough that I'd count them as "rumors." Kind of sad, in a way, that we're so in the dark that we hope for rumors as much as facts.

As far as the codex is concerned, I'd by thrilled if it got us into the squishy middle, while allowing more than one play style. I don't really care if that's point reductions, more output, or usable rules...as long as it's something.

New models, in my book, are just a way to support the local flgs.

This late in the day I expect models as much as a good codex. Good codex is most important though and for me that also means a variety of viable play styles.

He said that he can't wait for the Ork community's reaction to the Ork release I believe. Possible new models and he definitely seemed excited.

geargutz wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I think we all forget that before TBA series the Orks did have gigantic tecknolgy home worlds.. I mean look Gharkul Blackfang.. he personally fought the emperor himself! There was an Ork (not sure if same guy) who outright almost won against the Emperor if Horus had not have stepped in to save him... Orks have the power to defeat the emperor himself in 1 on 1 combat and this is even before they wrote the beast series. If anything the Beast series was always to me more of the same stuff but making the Orks feel more like aliens than Orks. It's why I would have loved something from the Ork perception because we've never seen that! What we have is a classic case of an unreliable narrative. Because everything is from the imperium perspective we have no idea what the Orks were like... they are obviously surprised that the Orks have cities but for all we know on the cities the Orks could still be Orks bartering for squigs with their teeth. And we will never know because BL refuses to do a story like this from the Orks perspective. The closest we have is Ghaz and it's why everyone loves him. He's a mascot for the Orks because his story is so detailed and we know everything about him... ask any rando in gw store what the names of the Beats are and half of them wil go "who are the beasts?"

though if they answered "ghaskul" that is technically right (since mag uruk thraka translates to "the beast")

i agree, we need more ork centered writings. the audio dramas they do have are a blast to hear from the ork perpective, i would be happy if they just ramped up the production of these short stories. you dont need to have a 50 book series from the ork perspective, you can have a bunch of short stories and just release it in an omnibus.
imagine a bunch of stories from various ork perspectives. the "waagh Rig" driver that raids umie convoys, the grots persepctive short that might see him get a nice killaakan upgrade to see what goes through the mind of one of those murder buckets, a fighting pit match between some nobz but the mek was a little over enthusiastic when designing the traps and wpns in it, and a bloody good green skin rambo ultra sneeky mission. i would buy these like kandy (the "K" makes it more orky).

but you bring up a sure fire seller idea like this and some git just spitz off the narrative that "nobody can relate to anything that isnt a human". these guys have no imagination and dont understand other markets...lets look at the often despised warcraft, when there is a large community that plays "horde" then your argument is invalid. heck if you just take the 40k player base already and there are many who play xenos, and in aos there are those who love to collect faction "not umie lookin",

Dude... look at portal the video games. Arguably one of the most popular and most related to characters were 2 robots who don't say a word, a mega evil lady robot, a pre recorded voice annou announcement, a core, a human who doesn't say anything and a freaking metal cube that doesn't even do anything! This all proves that with the correct writing anything can make a great relatable and popular character.

Come on! The companion cube is really just a cube and some how the writers made a better character that made you feel more emotions than half the stuff anybody has ever written. As someone who spent most of their life studying characters in courses I can tell you that Orks are easy mode when it comes to writing characters that are likeable and popular.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, I think it's safe to say we're all excited but also nervous for the codex. Or else we wouldn't be here.

One thing i've noticed is that Orks keep getting bigger and stronger as their enemies get bigger and stronger. Eldar tend to brag how orks humans have fought are like children compared to those they had to fight at the days of their might. The Beast was kinda like a delayed reaction to the Great Crusade that arose from collective Orkid psyche, it just happened on a cosmic timescale, so humans were unable to see the correlation. Reason why no more Primorks spawned is simply that none were needed, since GC had already folded and humanity was no longer a threat that needed any more reaction.

It also drives in the theme of mankinds meekness and insignificance in the face of the universe. Deliciously grimdark in a cosmic horror way, without being egdy grimderp nonsense where everyone acts like a psycho jackass

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Guy Haley does a good job of writing from an ork perspective, IMO.

My ideal ork book would be a graphic novel in the style of Deff Skwadron. Super cartoony style with the orks doing hilarious things that make the reader laugh. But after every funny ork comic there would be a short story of the same events, told from the human (or other non-ork) perspective with accompanying "realistic" artwork. These short stories would emphasize the the horror and brutality of orks, and make the reader feel bad for having laughed.

That'd be total baller. Doing a whole book about same ork/group of orks could get stale and short stories are much more fitting. I still think that fan-made(?) story about Makari the Gretchin is one of the best lore pieces we have about orks. Another great fan-fic is "Da Chop Shop" - a story about an assistant of a Big Mek who builds all kinds of kustom vehicles at the hangar of a space hulk.
What I'm trying to convey is that more stories about ork kultur, society with some snippets of how it functions would be most welcome.


About orkdex - do you think that we'll get new melee options? I started playing at the middle of 7th and was kinda shocked how little melee options ork have, despite being melee oriented army.

 JawRippa wrote:
That'd be total baller. Doing a whole book about same ork/group of orks could get stale and short stories are much more fitting. I still think that fan-made(?) story about Makari the Gretchin is one of the best lore pieces we have about orks. Another great fan-fic is "Da Chop Shop" - a story about an assistant of a Big Mek who builds all kinds of kustom vehicles at the hangar of a space hulk.
What I'm trying to convey is that more stories about ork kultur, society with some snippets of how it functions would be most welcome.


About orkdex - do you think that we'll get new melee options? I started playing at the middle of 7th and was kinda shocked how little melee options ork have, despite being melee oriented army.

I'll have to google Da Chop Shop, I haven't read that one.

I agree with you about more stories about ork kulture. That was what made some of the old books like 'Ere We Go so great, they were far more fluff than rules. GW has been re-releasing some older stuff, and I really hope they re-release 'Ere We Go, Waaargh Da Orks and Freebooterz. Or at least sell them as PDFs.


On the subject of more melee weapons, I wouldn't mind if they made some melee weapons available as upgrades for non-nobz. Like the ability for a boy or kommando to take a Big Choppa instead of a Big Shoota.

The lack of variety of melee weapons is strange, but I can actually see some logic in orks having less variety in terms of rules because we have so much variety visually. Other armies tend to be far more uniform, so relatively small differences in wargear can signify different types of weapons. Since orks tend to be ramshackle and we often scratchbuild things, I can see the sense in limiting what things can be in order to make them easy to identify. So one big choppa might be a double-headed chainsaw, while looks like a kind of power halberd and a third is a big length of chain with a wreckin' ball on the end, but they are all "big choppas". If we had zillions of options people might start getting a lot more picky over how we model stuff, which would be a bummer.

I do see the appeal of having more variety. I like the idea of having lots of variety. However, I wonder if with orks if it is better to have more general wargear that covers a lot of possible modeling options and then have the variety come in the form of lots of different units?

Here is a random pictures of about 20 of my ork boyz selected at random to test out a camera (ignore how everything is dark in real life it'sall bright):



In this rando selection alone you can see

12-15 different types of weapons
About 10 different heads
6+ different bodies and legs (selected from different ork models from different 40k editions and AoS ranges).

Orks certainly have the most unique characters. With simple Kit bashing their £6 easy fit kit alone can make about 64 variety of orks alone by swapping weapons and heads.I fear gw would probably make orks more uniform if they brought out a new range. XD

However, I would not want to make different rolls for everyone of those types of weapons. Honestly, sick of the hundreds of dice normally. Fun the first few times but borong after.... Ithink gw should kake a new system for when dice goes about 100. Maybe a 2D100 to determine how many hit. Obviously over simplistic but yah get me.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

I'll have to google Da Chop Shop, I haven't read that one.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Da_Chopshop

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

I do see the appeal of having more variety. I like the idea of having lots of variety. However, I wonder if with orks if it is better to have more general wargear that covers a lot of possible modeling options and then have the variety come in the form of lots of different units?

I kinda see what you mean. I guess if they introduce anything new, it should be something with unique or easily modeled look, like power stabba. Actually a bal on chain sounds really cool, I think I'll try converting one of my nobs to have it)

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Guy Haley does a good job of writing from an ork perspective, IMO.
.

Haley's an amazing writer, I absolutely love everything he's written that I've read.

Either a mistake in KT or the tiniest bit of insight ever, but Burna and Loota Spanners can take a Big Shoota, which isn't an available option in normal 40k. Everything else seems to be restricted to exactly what the unit can take in 40k (or less, if not in that specific kit) so that there's no issue "upgrading" to the larger game, which makes it an odd decision even if there is a Big Shoota in the kit.

I feel like we could make a gambling ring based on this faction. People on fb are getting annoyed on both sides. 1 side is spamming orks codex every day and the other side is telling them that nobody cares about orks.

 Trimarius wrote:
Either a mistake in KT or the tiniest bit of insight ever, but Burna and Loota Spanners can take a Big Shoota, which isn't an available option in normal 40k. Everything else seems to be restricted to exactly what the unit can take in 40k (or less, if not in that specific kit) so that there's no issue "upgrading" to the larger game, which makes it an odd decision even if there is a Big Shoota in the kit.

That makes me happy to hear. I want to do a kill team from every clan, and having loads of Big Shootas seems like it would be fitting for Bad Moons.

Are we able to take both a regular Nob and a Kommando Nob? I was thinking about using the Kommando Nob as a mercenary Freebooter sniper using the old metal Flash Git with the squig parrot and the snazzgun that isn't very snazzy.

I really hope we have more synergy between units and from psychic powers/stratagems like other armies are getting. I look at an army like Death Guard who has psychic powers out the wazoo and tons of characters to buff squads, or IG who have orders to help out their infantry.

Currently we dont have a whole lot of that and are a pretty binary army. Not much of our stuff outside of a warboss WAAAGH and painboy (but really who takes those?) really helps out other units/models. Right now we are pretty binary in what we can do, hopefully the codex addresses that.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:
Either a mistake in KT or the tiniest bit of insight ever, but Burna and Loota Spanners can take a Big Shoota, which isn't an available option in normal 40k. Everything else seems to be restricted to exactly what the unit can take in 40k (or less, if not in that specific kit) so that there's no issue "upgrading" to the larger game, which makes it an odd decision even if there is a Big Shoota in the kit.

That makes me happy to hear. I want to do a kill team from every clan, and having loads of Big Shootas seems like it would be fitting for Bad Moons.

Are we able to take both a regular Nob and a Kommando Nob? I was thinking about using the Kommando Nob as a mercenary Freebooter sniper using the old metal Flash Git with the squig parrot and the snazzgun that isn't very snazzy.

You can get up to eight Big Shootas (or Rokkit Launchas) in a KT (2 Boyz Gunners, 3+3 Spanners from Lootas/Burnas), but that'd eat up most of your points, as a Spanner with a BS is more expensive than a Boy with one despite having the same stats. Having both Nobz types is doable, but the only option Kommandos have at all is swapping the choppa for a klaw on the Nob. The current finecast kit is all you have available, so no metal burna Kommandos allowed (technically).

Boyz Nob can have either kombi-weapon and a BC/PK, though.

I'm planning on bringing both Nobz as my combat specialist (Kommando Nob with PK) and veteran (Boyz Nob with BC and kombi-skorcha; for the before game move) so that they can go do the heavy lifting while my brain-grot leader stays safe.

I just wish Burnas weren't paying 50% more than everyone else pays for a flamer and a power sword combined while only getting half of either. I really wanted to run a classic mek-led salvaging team and not feel like I'm making a terrible decision.

I have a feeling against primaris that Orks don't stand much of a chance. Wish they gave us ardboyz for the 4+ save.

My takehome from this thread today:

Wet fart after taco night

That's a good line. I'll save that away for another time, thanks!

 Trimarius wrote:
You can get up to eight Big Shootas (or Rokkit Launchas) in a KT (2 Boyz Gunners, 3+3 Spanners from Lootas/Burnas), but that'd eat up most of your points, as a Spanner with a BS is more expensive than a Boy with one despite having the same stats. Having both Nobz types is doable, but the only option Kommandos have at all is swapping the choppa for a klaw on the Nob. The current finecast kit is all you have available, so no metal burna Kommandos allowed (technically).

Boyz Nob can have either kombi-weapon and a BC/PK, though

Cool, that will be a lot of dakka! I figure it won't be very competitive, but I'm going more for thematic and funny. I probably will model some Lootas as Boyz with Snazzgunz on bipods.

Shame that Nobz can't take shootas or kustom shootas. That old flash git is a cool model, but I don't think I want to change it up too much for the sake of making it work for Kill Team.

I figure I'm going to run Death Skulls as a more competitive list, but since I don't have book yet I don't really have any idea what will be good and what I'll be doing.

I wonder about the usefulness of ork shooting in kill team.

Anything over half max range suffers -1 to hit.

Only thing I can see benefitting from that is maybe lootas since they outrange most anything imperials would carry.

For that reason too I would never consider anything other than the kombi skorcha on the nob.

It's a shame burna boys are over priced garbage.