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im firmly on the not caring about new 'stuff' side of the argument. I want a fleshed out variable codex ala tyranids.

In the order of what's actually important and desired by Ork players; I'd be willing to bet the desire for "a good codex" far exceeds the desire for "new models".

Ork players will convert everything they need anyways; they've learned to make due with less.

I personally just want a good codex. I don't give a grot about new models; I'll just make my own if I really want them.

Of course the order of priorities is good codex then new models but make no mistake we deserve both.

We have some of the oldest models going and if the release was codex only it should've come 9-6 months ago.

I'll also remind people that GW themselves said at a major event (I forget which, but it was when they announced the SW and Ork codexes I believe) that we should be getting model releases as one of the last to be released (according to sources at the event anyway).

I would be disappointed if we get a codex only release, the lack of support for Orks has been consistent and poor for too many years. Another edition of the same would be the final straw that breaks the camels back I think.

While I wouldn't say we deserve anything, I would argue GW as a business should be financially risky to improve the spirits of a section of their consumers who could just as easily (if they got a bad dex and no models) create a lot of negative press that would end up costing them more if they had not have spent more time on the dex. I myself will likely not say much if all goes wrong... probably make a few posts here and then go silent for a while. While some youtubers will go crazy!

However, their risk could very well become good marketing.They could spend more money on Orks not just as a faction update but as a marketing campaign to enforce the idea if New GW. Again, if Orks got everything they could ever dream of (for me a valid dex for friendly games, updates of all our models) I would probably sing gw's praise for weeks while I know the youtube community would also go crazy eith praise.

Again, right now it's rare I see ork players on battle reports from channels that don't have Orks but imperial guard, dark elder, etc... have gone up rapidly since their codex. If orks did have a lazy cheap codex then reports would go down even further and they would lose marketing there... while if thry funded a great dex then Orks could be in almost every report you seenon youtube.

 lolman1c wrote:
While I wouldn't say we deserve anything, I would argue GW as a business should be financially risky to improve the spirits of a section of their consumers who could just as easily (if they got a bad dex and no models) create a lot of negative press that would end up costing them more if they had not have spent more time on the dex. I myself will likely not say much if all goes wrong... probably make a few posts here and then go silent for a while. While some youtubers will go crazy!

However, their risk could very well become good marketing.They could spend more money on Orks not just as a faction update but as a marketing campaign to enforce the idea if New GW. Again, if Orks got everything they could ever dream of (for me a valid dex for friendly games, updates of all our models) I would probably sing gw's praise for weeks while I know the youtube community would also go crazy eith praise.

Again, right now it's rare I see ork players on battle reports from channels that don't have Orks but imperial guard, dark elder, etc... have gone up rapidly since their codex. If orks did have a lazy cheap codex then reports would go down even further and they would lose marketing there... while if thry funded a great dex then Orks could be in almost every report you seenon youtube.

I think if I was in charge of Orks my focus wouldn't nesscarily be on "new stuff" (I'd try to include a new kit or so don't get me wrong) but on robust rules for looted stuff. IMHO a "looted wagon" isn't really eneugh, one set of stats for everything just feels wrong. I'd put "looted wagons" "looted heavy tanks" and "looted fliers" all in the 'dex and include all sorts of rules within em. In short rather then just "3 or 4 new kits" (cause let's be honest, thats proably about what they'd get) I'd make sure the rules opened up huge swaths of the 40k vehicle range to Orks and enchouraged them to go hog wild with it. So that suddenly every battle report has new and amazing conversions etc. THAT is how you generate excitement around Orks.

 lolman1c wrote:
Again, right now it's rare I see ork players on battle reports from channels that don't have Orks but imperial guard, dark elder, etc... have gone up rapidly since their codex. If orks did have a lazy cheap codex then reports would go down even further and they would lose marketing there... while if thry funded a great dex then Orks could be in almost every report you seenon youtube.

And how you define 'good' codex? Taudar of 7th level of broken cheese?

Let's face it, while GW has some good writers (recent books for AoS show that plainly) a lot of the old guard is simply incompetent, and, unless we assume they sabotage books for kicks, often has no idea what makes a good book. I find ork complains kinda funny when these guys can't even do Space Marines of all things right - just look at last two big SM releases. You have Deathwatch, which was mangled by wunderteam of Kelly/Cruddace so badly hype from amazing models only sold DW for like a month, then people noticed they have terribad rules (compounded by said two geniuses then nerfing already weak book 3 times in a row...) and DW models started hitting ebay faster than orks. Then we have flagship range of new edition, the primaris, who were also rather weak, and while points cut kept them afloat, absurd proliferation of D2 good AP weapons kept them rather mediocre still. Do you want that?

Honestly, if I were ork player, I'd be praying for one of the good AoS guys to be given the book, not one of the has-beens, no matter how long it takes. As someone from different industry once said, a delayed book will eventually be good, rushed book will always be terrible. Alas, looks like GW is trying to do just that and yet, they can't win, because no matter what they do, not delivering best book ever instantly means people get to complain loudly. Especially seeing some people already went past unrealistic expectations and demand best book, whole new range, and refreshment of all models all at once, completely ignoring GW's well known production problems and other similar tiny, unimportant details...

I think most of us define a “good” codex as being as competitive and internally balanced/varied selections as the current Tyranids codex

 Billagio wrote:
I think most of us define a “good” codex as being as competitive and internally balanced/varied selections as the current Tyranids codex

That's what I'd like. I'd like many builds to be at least somewhat viable. I don't want anything that's broken or cheesy.

Also, I have a preference for flavor over competitiveness, but there's obviously a limit to that. Flavor is great, but it's no fun to get tabled by turn two in casual games.

That Death Grip stratagem that the Knights got is amazing. I'm hoping we get a bunch of stuff like that.

a good codex for me means that if I sit across the table from a bad player, I stand at least a decent chance of beating them regardless of what sort of flavor of the month army they bring to the game.

As it stands, there are matchups that are auto-lose... Provided the other player doesn't forget to use the things they've paid for.

 Billagio wrote:
I think most of us define a “good” codex as being as competitive and internally balanced/varied selections as the current Tyranids codex

I actually say this so many times I can't count in this thread and people still accuse me of wanting an OP codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:
a good codex for me means that if I sit across the table from a bad player, I stand at least a decent chance of beating them regardless of what sort of flavor of the month army they bring to the game.

As it stands, there are matchups that are auto-lose... Provided the other player doesn't forget to use the things they've paid for.

For once I agree with you... i can't tell you how frustrating it is having one of your GW in the heart of WAAC city... there is genuinely a guy who sells his models every few months to buy a new army and yells at people when he doesn't do well... (i refuse to play him but aparntly he's just a bad player). I'm talking people who bring Gullfaceman with like 15 las cannons (an automlose for my mek list regardless of my kff), people who refuse to play because Insay I just want a fun game and patronising people who tell me how i should get a new army.

I remember someone here or on another forums said they have been asked to stop playing their biker ork list because it's just not fun to crush it.

All I want is to have a chance and not be demolished turn 1 by rerolling basically auto hitting lascannons.

 lolman1c wrote:

For once I agree with you... i can't tell you how frustrating it is having one of your GW in the heart of WAAC city... there is genuinely a guy who sells his models every few months to buy a new army and yells at people when he doesn't do well... (i refuse to play him but aparntly he's just a bad player). I'm talking people who bring Gullfaceman with like 15 las cannons (an automlose for my mek list regardless of my kff), people who refuse to play because Insay I just want a fun game and patronising people who tell me how i should get a new army.

I remember someone here or on another forums said they have been asked to stop playing their biker ork list because it's just not fun to crush it.

All I want is to have a chance and not be demolished turn 1 by rerolling basically auto hitting lascannons.

That would be me, I have been asked not to bring my Speed Freakz lists anymore because the game basically ends turn 2. So my favorite army type is collecting dust, granted I did surprise my last opponent by bringing out a Battlewagon rush list with Mek Gunz in support.

SemperMortis wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

For once I agree with you... i can't tell you how frustrating it is having one of your GW in the heart of WAAC city... there is genuinely a guy who sells his models every few months to buy a new army and yells at people when he doesn't do well... (i refuse to play him but aparntly he's just a bad player). I'm talking people who bring Gullfaceman with like 15 las cannons (an automlose for my mek list regardless of my kff), people who refuse to play because Insay I just want a fun game and patronising people who tell me how i should get a new army.

I remember someone here or on another forums said they have been asked to stop playing their biker ork list because it's just not fun to crush it.

All I want is to have a chance and not be demolished turn 1 by rerolling basically auto hitting lascannons.

That would be me, I have been asked not to bring my Speed Freakz lists anymore because the game basically ends turn 2. So my favorite army type is collecting dust, granted I did surprise my last opponent by bringing out a Battlewagon rush list with Mek Gunz in support.

Just wondering if you've tried an army with both foot and Speed over either extreme?
My most competitive opponent seems to have trouble with that kind of build.

SemperMortis wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

For once I agree with you... i can't tell you how frustrating it is having one of your GW in the heart of WAAC city... there is genuinely a guy who sells his models every few months to buy a new army and yells at people when he doesn't do well... (i refuse to play him but aparntly he's just a bad player). I'm talking people who bring Gullfaceman with like 15 las cannons (an automlose for my mek list regardless of my kff), people who refuse to play because Insay I just want a fun game and patronising people who tell me how i should get a new army.

I remember someone here or on another forums said they have been asked to stop playing their biker ork list because it's just not fun to crush it.

All I want is to have a chance and not be demolished turn 1 by rerolling basically auto hitting lascannons.

That would be me, I have been asked not to bring my Speed Freakz lists anymore because the game basically ends turn 2. So my favorite army type is collecting dust, granted I did surprise my last opponent by bringing out a Battlewagon rush list with Mek Gunz in support.

Honestly, speed freaks is one of the bets thinsg about 40k and orks. The idea you can have an entire mobile and fast army like mad max is awesome. Tbh, the codex would be good in my mind if they made this army competitive (not dominanting competitive but comparable to good design).

That's really what I want most out of this codex. My kult of speed list is not really doing great so far in 8th haha. Fortunately I get to play it with friends in fun games sometimes but most armies struggle to make a list weak enough for it to be an even matchup I find. I don't need it to be great, not gonna go to tournaments with it anyways. I do however hope GW helps those lists enough that 10/12 squads of boyz in a trukk aren't completely useless.

I play orks because I love kitbashing them and they're super charming, not because I value winning above all else. Still, wouldn't mind sneaking in a victory every now and then

The one time I wanted to create a toned-down list I included a bunch of Trukk Boyz.


I like throwing a good amount of dice, but I'd say that for me personally max fun is 60 dice and there's diminishing returns after that up to 90. When it hits 120+ dice it gets tedious, in my opinion.

I like what lolman1c suggested a few pages back with Green Tide giving +1 WS instead of +1 Attack. I've also been thinking that a good change might be to make Choppas -1 AP rather than +1 Attack. When I was math hammering it out it was stronger against some units and weaker against others, but overall about the same.

Don't get me wrong, I like that Orks roll a lot of dice, I'd just like to limit the number of times I'm rolling well over 100.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other day I played a game of Space Marines vs Space Marines. I forgot to bring an army, so one guy was nice enough to split his in half to play. He forgot to bring dice, so we only had the six that came in the Kill Team box I had just purchased. I was skeptical at first, but only having six dice actually worked fine. That was sure a big change from playing Orks.

Erghh... I Carry about a box of 100 mini dice to make things easier... but it's such a pain I offer to use dice rolling aps now that let me roll hundreds of dice at once just to sped things along... especially vs terminators. 1 time I threw 120 attacks at the termy squad and only killed 2... with my nobz... was a waste of my time... he just slowly wacked my force down and there wasn't much i could do but keep roling stupid amounts of dice untill he got unlucky.

I want a good codex with all the orks in it from past additions. I want boar boys and speed freaks. We might as well include the boys from the old feral list. Squiggoths, squig herders, and the old mad boys. This way GW can make lots of models not just new buggies. It's what they need to keep bring out models so they make more money. We get great choices they make money we all win.

That's unrealistically huge miniature amount to release at once. Way too many at once

That's true tneva82. But I didn't ask for super sized space marines. It's obvious that GW is not a rules company. They are a model company. That's their history. They want to make money they need to have more models to sell. Either make new games that require new mins and rules or build a solid ruleset that you only need new models for. They have chosen the first. Also my comment is more wish listing than reality. It would be nice not to have cobble so many hq models.

Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Feral Orks are going to be the hardest faction to include. Boarboys would need a new box set, which would be a huge investment. That being said I'd be totally happy if they went the Tzaangor route and simply added a small accessory sprue of pistol arms to the AoS box set. Squigoths are another beast entirely. It would require a new kit, no way around it. However it is an iconic Ork unit and I am actually surprised GW hasn't done one in the past. Even if they cost as much money as a Land Raider I'm willing to bet many Ork players would buy two or more.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Feral Orks are going to be the hardest faction to include. Boarboys would need a new box set, which would be a huge investment. That being said I'd be totally happy if they went the Tzaangor route and simply added a small accessory sprue of pistol arms to the AoS box set. Squigoths are another beast entirely. It would require a new kit, no way around it. However it is an iconic Ork unit and I am actually surprised GW hasn't done one in the past. Even if they cost as much money as a Land Raider I'm willing to bet many Ork players would buy two or more.

keep in mind things iike feral orks could also be used for a stand alone codex.

Squigoths and gigantic squigoths are available from forge world.

I am slowly working through each of the clans building themed ork armies, and after the free booters i am working on currently, then next one will be either snakebites or rebel grots. The snake bite army i am hoping forge world re-release the gigantic squigoth by then.

 cuda1179 wrote:


Feral Orks are going to be the hardest faction to include. Boarboys would need a new box set, which would be a huge investment.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Ironjawz-Orruk-Gore-Gruntas
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Bonesplitterz-Savage-Boarboy-Maniaks

Just one upgrade sprue required. Or a box of boys

I'd rather they not be their own book. As someone who hates spending money on rules having to buy all the rules for all my Orks would be annoying. XD I just want all the Orks to be in one big Orky codex full of Love and War!

 davou wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:


Feral Orks are going to be the hardest faction to include. Boarboys would need a new box set, which would be a huge investment.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Ironjawz-Orruk-Gore-Gruntas
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Bonesplitterz-Savage-Boarboy-Maniaks

Just one upgrade sprue required. Or a box of boys

Those Savage Boarboy Maniaks would be perfect for Snakebite Boar boys with a single upgrade sprue. Honestly, I'm super surprised there aren't more kits that are 40k-AoS cross compatible with the addition of a single accessory sprue. It would save GW so much money in development costs while opening up new markets for existing kits.

I want dozens of ork books.

Probably not dozens actually, but I think it would be good for Orks to eventually get a few specialized books as long as the main codex does a decent job of covering the mainstay builds. An example of what I mean by that is that I hope that the main codex can be used to make viable Speed Freaks lists, but then if a Speed Freaks book comes out down the road as an optional supplement that would be cool too.

I think that the ork codex can probably do a good job representing many different clans and playstyles, but at the same time orks have so much flavor that they could easily fill out multiple books.

Plastic variants of all the finecrap models would be brilliant.

Also a new Trukk model, unless it's just me that can't assemble the current sprue.

OH and a Bad Moons and Snakebites character. Sucks that neither of those clans have a character for them.

tneva82 wrote:Except there's no kit "nob bikers" and GW has been very sparse in letting units in codex without specific kit on sale.

I wouldn't worry too much about Nob Bikers, FW would probably cover them if need be.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I want dozens of ork books.

Probably not dozens actually, but I think it would be good for Orks to eventually get a few specialized books as long as the main codex does a decent job of covering the mainstay builds. An example of what I mean by that is that I hope that the main codex can be used to make viable Speed Freaks lists, but then if a Speed Freaks book comes out down the road as an optional supplement that would be cool too.

I think that the ork codex can probably do a good job representing many different clans and playstyles, but at the same time orks have so much flavor that they could easily fill out multiple books.

Definitely. We have so many Marine codexes when they are extremely similar.

I could see Codex: Orks. Codex: Speed Freakz. Codex: War Walkerz. as a quick list. It would make a ton of sense to me and would help differentiate the army further (troops are different etc).

I'd love this.

I could see Dread Mob being one, there used to be an old Dread Mob army in IA.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I could see Dread Mob being one, there used to be an old Dread Mob army in IA.

I would literally go bankrupt if this happened. I love my dread mob list (even if it's pretty meh) and would love to have an entire book of rules for them. Sadly, I can't see this really happening. Call me pessimistic, but Codex: Orks is all I can see happening due to how often we seem to get left by the wayside.