Ork speculation/chat - [new rumour p75 and in OP-Clan Warlord Traits]

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**Binabik15**

Ok, the mental image of the trakk lifting off to scrap a plane like a shark jumping out of the ocean to... scrap a plane if Hollywood is to be believed. Awesome. Depending on the kit's price I might use an actual Ork plane instead, though. Add some wheels and tracks (the servo-hauler has good ones) and you can probably make three or four megatrakks. Like, the wings in V-form strapped to the little tractor powered by several rockets looking like a tiny F-117 Nighthawk alone could make the purchase worth it!

I could have my own little Deff Skwadron!

**G00fySmiley**

this is interesting

https://www.amazon.com/Heroes-Black-Reach-Reinforcements-Expansion/dp/B0761KCZM2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1539957418&sr=8-5&keywords=ork+boyz&dpID=51TagsymQUL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

oops card game apparently, i thought it was model kits.

**Ork-en Man**

Orks have the potential to really get across the board. There is Da Jump, Shokkjump, Dragsta & the rumored teleport strategum to put things right in your opponent's face. Plus, there are several units that can move across quickly or have a native deep strike ability.

**JimOnMars**

PiñaColada wrote:
I also feel like it's quite possible the megatrakk skrapjet has a stratgem tied to it which enables it to fly for the remainder of the turn. That would make the commercial ring a bit more true, and even with the fly nerf in the charge phase it would still be able to hit fliers in CC.

Obviously this is just me taking a wild guess, but stuff like that could add a lot of versatility to the vehicle. Also, it'd make the flyboy happy and isn't that always our number one concern?

Or perhaps it goes airborne if it rolls 4+ when advancing...that would be nice.

**NOLA Chris**

Hi guys!

I haven't noticed mention of DakkaDakka change on here
as I haven't kept up with this thread,

but I saw on the Warhammer Community article on Ork vehicles that they say "DakkaDakka" generates an aditional *hit* on an unmodified "6"
a change from generating an additional shot?

if this is the final DakkaDakka,
I'm VERY excited to get my Boyz back out on the Table!!

Chris

**Daedalus81**

NOLA Chris wrote:
Hi guys!

I haven't noticed mention of DakkaDakka change on here
as I haven't kept up with this thread,

but I saw on the Warhammer Community article on Ork vehicles that they say "DakkaDakka" generates an aditional *hit* on an unmodified "6"
a change from generating an additional shot?

if this is the final DakkaDakka,
I'm VERY excited to get my Boyz back out on the Table!!

Chris

Yea, we're not sure if we can take that at face value yet. I'm pretty certain it will mean that it generates hits, but GW has goofed before.

**docdoom77**

NOLA Chris wrote:
Hi guys!

I haven't noticed mention of DakkaDakka change on here
as I haven't kept up with this thread,

but I saw on the Warhammer Community article on Ork vehicles that they say "DakkaDakka" generates an aditional *hit* on an unmodified "6"
a change from generating an additional shot?

if this is the final DakkaDakka,
I'm VERY excited to get my Boyz back out on the Table!!

Chris

The writing of these preview articles is ALWAYS pretty fast and loose. I wouldn't read too much into it.

**Jidmah**

Agree, GW released an actual picture of the rule which says attacks rather than hits, I doubt this has changed.

**NOLA Chris**

Ah, well!...
I'll not hold my breath then,
but wait for the codex

Thank y'all!

**Tyel**

The dragsta would be incredible at around 100 points. Id take 3.

**JimOnMars**

Tyel wrote:
The dragsta would be incredible at around 100 points. Id take 3.

Yea...but that means buying 3 copies of SpeedFreaks. Save your pennies!

**Slayer-Fan123**

Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?

**JimOnMars**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?

Guard get it at 4ppm and no cp.

We don't want that. Fair would be 6ppm orks at 5+ and no cp or 4+ orks at 7ppm and 2cp.

**fe40k**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?

We want ‘Ard Boyz to be, well, ‘Ard Boyz. They’ve traditionally always been a 4+; the new version is ok, but it’s just not the same.

Also, it’s just a +1 to their save; but at 2cp. - How much will an Ork player have to spare?

The only positive is that, since it’s a stratagem, it doesn’t ALWAYS have to be used; you can use it in some matchups, but not others...

Still, 2cp for cover on round 1, 2cp for a +1 save, cp for this, cp for that... it’ll add up REAL fast.

**davou**

JimOnMars wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?
Guard get it at 4ppm and no cp.

We don't want that. Fair would be 6ppm orks at 5+ and no cp or 4+ orks at 7ppm and 2cp.

Guard also cant teleport across the board instantly

**JimOnMars**

davou wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?
Guard get it at 4ppm and no cp.

We don't want that. Fair would be 6ppm orks at 5+ and no cp or 4+ orks at 7ppm and 2cp.

Guard also cant teleport across the board instantly

Neither can we, without a weirdboy.

Guard gets plenty of buffs from officers, but weirdboyz and officers aren't what is being discussed.

**Slayer-Fan123**

JimOnMars wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?
Guard get it at 4ppm and no cp.

We don't want that. Fair would be 6ppm orks at 5+ and no cp or 4+ orks at 7ppm and 2cp.

For 2 points you lose BS4+ and the 5+, and you get an additional point of S, T, A, and a rule that slightly mitigates the lesser BS level.

If you don't think that evens out at all you are super spoiled and have no concept of balance whatsoever.

**davou**

JimOnMars wrote:
davou wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?
Guard get it at 4ppm and no cp.

We don't want that. Fair would be 6ppm orks at 5+ and no cp or 4+ orks at 7ppm and 2cp.

Guard also cant teleport across the board instantly
Neither can we, without a weirdboy.

Guard gets plenty of buffs from officers, but weirdboyz and officers aren't what is being discussed.

You might not be, but your also missing my point. You can't talk about the value of units in a vaccum. Seeking out ballance requires consideration of what it contributes overall, what sort of niches it fills, and what it gains from being part of a particular book. If you want to talk about what a unit is worth, but then outright refuse to consider that maybe more than just its own stats are important, then you're not arguing in good faith.

**JimOnMars**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?
Guard get it at 4ppm and no cp.

We don't want that. Fair would be 6ppm orks at 5+ and no cp or 4+ orks at 7ppm and 2cp.

For 2 points you lose BS4+ and the 5+, and you get an additional point of S, T, A, and a rule that slightly mitigates the lesser BS level.

If you don't think that evens out at all you are super spoiled and have no concept of balance whatsoever.

You forgot WS.

But you are wrong.

Would you like guardsmen who trade their BS4+ for 5+, but gain S4, T4 and WS3+? Oh...and these new guardsmen are 7 points instead of 4, and have to pay 2CP for 5+ armor.

You would do that? Pay 7 points instead of 4 and 2CP per unit instead of zero, and lose 1/3 of their shooting?

**Slayer-Fan123**

JimOnMars wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Man you guys are spoiled. 2CP for an army easily taking in CP to give you guys a 5+ that's not just ignored by every gun in the game for a unit of 30 dudes.

I mean what do you guys want?
Guard get it at 4ppm and no cp.

We don't want that. Fair would be 6ppm orks at 5+ and no cp or 4+ orks at 7ppm and 2cp.

For 2 points you lose BS4+ and the 5+, and you get an additional point of S, T, A, and a rule that slightly mitigates the lesser BS level.

If you don't think that evens out at all you are super spoiled and have no concept of balance whatsoever.
You forgot WS.

But you are wrong.

Would you like guardsmen who trade their BS4+ for 5+, but gain S4, T4 and WS3+? Oh...and these new guardsmen are 7 points instead of 4, and have to pay 2CP for 5+ armor.

You would do that? Pay 7 points instead of 4 and 2CP per unit instead of zero, and lose 1/3 of their shooting?

I don't have a melee element in my Deathwatch or AdMech lists, so absolutely.

Also once again you don't lose a third of your shooting because you gained a rule for free to negate part of that, on top of it ignoring any modifier after -1.

**deffrekka**

Jidmah wrote:
Glane wrote:
Jidmah wrote:

Why do you think the buggies are lackluster? Especially the shockjump dragsta and the scrapjet look quite powerful to me, with the boosta-blasta still looking decent, though probably not tournament material.

Shokkjump Dragsta so far looks like the only one worth taking. The scrapjet looks like scrap; 4 shots on average from its rokkits means, on average, 1 or 2 hits, and against a T8 tank that's typically 1 wound roll that gets through which is saved 1/3rd of the time. Dakka Dakka Dakka is largely pointless on them too, thanks to low numbers of hits and typical Ork inaccuracy.

Now, given that the article says they're piloted by downed Dakkajet pilots, we might, just MIGHT, get to hit on 4+. That would make them actually worth considering, because then they're active competition to Tankbustas. Who knows why GW is going on about with "And that’s just ONE of the guns – this vehicle is loaded with deadly firepower.". We've seen the model, it has two guns on the front, each shooting rokkits. That's the Rokkit Kannon right there. No other guns on the model. Maybe the pilot has a slugga or shotgun, but frankly who cares.

Maybe you should give the model another look:

Spoiler:

The article clearly said that the rokkit kannon is just one of it's guns. Just from the model, we have at least 1-3 additional rokkit shots and something that could be a twin big shoota, supa-shoota, dakka gun or a single deff gun.

At BS5+, assuming one rokkit launcha and twin big shootas, it will deal 1.88 wounds to T8/3+/5++, while the dragsta deals 2.27 damage. In reality, this means that they will most likely will score one rokkit hit each two out of three turns. The scrapjet has a better close combat weapon and from PL we can assume it s about 20 points less than the dragsta.

If one is viable, the other one is very close by, if the scrapjet gets more than rokkit shot or BS4+, it will be on equal footing with the dragsta, for less points.

We've had Lootas for over a year now in 8th, and people don't take them because they're not worth taking.

KMK putting out three times as much firepower than a loota per point is more relevant to them not appearing than the profile of their gun.

At the end of the day, the reason the Shokkjump Dragsta is so promising is because it's actual anti-tank for us in an army that currently badly lacks that. The rest are all anti-infantry which we don't suffer much against currently; we just drown it in Boyz and call it a day.

I see no reason to point a rokkit kannon at infantry.

It also has 2 big shootas on the rear of the model aswell which can be seen on a few posts on instagram and on that bad quality video that was shown. So it may have the rokkit kannon, rokkit launcha, 4 big/supa shootas and the drill which isnt bad.

**geargutz**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I don't have a melee element in my Deathwatch or AdMech lists, so absolutely.

Also once again you don't lose a third of your shooting because you gained a rule for free to negate part of that, on top of it ignoring any modifier after -1.

luckily those guard players can shoot twice with their main battle tank.

sure, this is the "shooting" edition, but lets moan about the melee focused orks for wanting some genuine buffs so they dont get blown off the board before turn 3.

**Kilkrazy**

Guys, there's a lot of Mod alerts spinning off this thread, which I assume are due to impoliteness, though actually no reason was given.

Everybody calm down, please.

**Slayer-Fan123**

geargutz wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I don't have a melee element in my Deathwatch or AdMech lists, so absolutely.

Also once again you don't lose a third of your shooting because you gained a rule for free to negate part of that, on top of it ignoring any modifier after -1.

luckily those guard players can shoot twice with their main battle tank.

sure, this is the "shooting" edition, but lets moan about the melee focused orks for wanting some genuine buffs so they dont get blown off the board before turn 3.

Luckily you have a universal Stratatgem giving everyone cover on the first turn if you don't get it, and then the whole army has been focused on getting off a charge T1.

**geargutz**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Luckily you have a universal Stratatgem giving everyone cover on the first turn if you don't get it, and then the whole army has been focused on getting off a charge T1.

luckily many shooting units can now be placed on the top of ruins where no ork melee focused vehicle can attack.

how much "everything and the kitchen sink are we going to put in these counter point arguments?

as it stand there are very few ork lists doing any real good in tournaments. if the codex comes out and orks are overpowered then maybe youll have a leg to stand on, and if its under-powered then we were justified in our worries.

**PiñaColada**

deffrekka wrote:

It also has 2 big shootas on the rear of the model aswell which can be seen on a few posts on instagram and on that bad quality video that was shown. So it may have the rokkit kannon, rokkit launcha, 4 big/supa shootas and the drill which isnt bad.

Do you have a link to those posts perchance? I don't think I've seen those pictures.

Also, not in reply to you deffrekka. Can we please stop with the whole snarky comparison of guardsmen and boyz now?

**Slayer-Fan123**

geargutz wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Luckily you have a universal Stratatgem giving everyone cover on the first turn if you don't get it, and then the whole army has been focused on getting off a charge T1.

luckily many shooting units can now be placed on the top of ruins where no ork melee focused vehicle can attack.

how much "everything and the kitchen sink are we going to put in these counter point arguments?

as it stand there are very few ork lists doing any real good in tournaments. if the codex comes out and orks are overpowered then maybe youll have a leg to stand on, and if its under-powered then we were justified in our worries.

If 1 or 2 units on a ruin is such a concern, you couldn't play ANY melee army.

**Oguhmek**

PiñaColada wrote:
deffrekka wrote:

It also has 2 big shootas on the rear of the model aswell which can be seen on a few posts on instagram and on that bad quality video that was shown. So it may have the rokkit kannon, rokkit launcha, 4 big/supa shootas and the drill which isnt bad.

Do you have a link to those posts perchance? I don't think I've seen those pictures.

Also, not in reply to you deffrekka. Can we please stop with the whole snarky comparison of guardsmen and boyz now?

Apparently it has a Grot tailgunner in the back, they said so on Warhammer TV yesterday. That would account for 2 of the big/soopa shootas.

(also it's not actually a jet engine, but more like a prop plane with a drill instead of the prop, hence no jet exhaust in the back)

**Jidmah**

If this thing was built from a dakkajet, the part with the jet engine is definitely missing.

**Nightlord1987**

Regarding the trouble with Ruins... I always make sure to out the big terrain pieces toward the center of the board, and not on the edges. There's no point in encouraging castling.

I also usually place terrain symmetrically so no one particular side has an advantage over the other.