Ork speculation/chat - [new rumour p75 and in OP-Clan Warlord Traits]

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**Jidmah**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I haven't seen the rule text, but if it states GRETCHIN then they can't benefit from Kulturz.
If it just says Gretchin models then Mek Gunz (and probably Killa Kanz) are safe.
However given how the reviews have been talking about the rule, I assume it's based on the keyword.

The GMG guys were a bit more clear on this, the codex basically says that stratagems can only target GRETCHIN units when they explicitly say so, with them using kanz as an example. If the kultur thing works the same, it might be worded similar.

**tneva82**

Salt donkey wrote:
Well if anyone was wondering if certain people will never truly be satisfied with the great things they get, this thread proves it. While I can understand the disappointment some have with certain units, its pretty clear the ork codex as a whole is fantastic. Stuff like a tractor kannon mek guns, deff dreads, boyz, grots, storm boyz, killa kanz, deff rolla battlewagons, deff killa wartrikes, etc, etc are all fantastic options. For those complaining about point increases, remember that all those units could nearly make it top tables despite lacking kultures, stratagem support, and other new special rules. If they stayed where they where at points wise, I guarantee people would have been demanding point increases for them by the time chapter approved arrived. To me most of the naysayers are just mad that their pet units stayed bad or appears 'worse' on the surface. Either that or they just are willfully ignoring the impact that kultures, stratagems, rule changes, and point decreases on previously poor units will have on the army because they feel entitled to blatantly OP rules. Being disappointed that stuff like the Stompa are clearly still bad is fine. Decrying the whole codex as being bad because it isn't obviously better than the most OP codex in the game right is basically trolling.

For traktor guns you are already planning to cheat. Deff dreads only works with DS. Boyz took nerf. Stormboyz took nerf. Killa kans got price decrease which helps but still soft and no klan culture.

The codex will be sub average aiming for bottom parts in tournaments. Overall power level didn't change. Indeed when you compare to index vs index days orks got WEAKER. Only thing that happened is GW got changed 1 sub-optimal build into another forcing buying new models.

And orks only got to top tables if they delibarately SLOW PLAYED 2-3 turn games. Yeah if you rewrite game and don't play same game you can do better. Gee. Play 5+ turns like scenarios tell you and you lose.

But yeah whatever. Cheaters word doesn't count much anyway

**geargutz**

a list i hope to try when i have the codex
=batalion 5cp=(klan?)
bigmek/sag (80)
wierdboy (62)
grotsx10x10x10 (90)
mekgun (traktor kannon) x6 (270)
mekgun (traktor kannon) x4 (180)
=speerhead 1cp=(evilsunz)
wierdboy (62)
gorkanaut (311)
morkanaut/kff (310)
defdred(dreddsaw/dreddklaw/x2bigshoota) x3 (270)
meganob (pk,kustshoota)x10 (350)
=1985pts total

thats enough cp to tellyport the gorkanaut/morkanaut(for kff support)/defdredds (total of 891pts so i can reserve them all)
the weirdboyz buff the meganobz with warpath and then dajump them when the other units come out of tellyport. they are all evilsunz to help with a massive turn2 charge.
didnt know what klan to pick for the battalion (since its a high chance the mekgunz might not get to use the kulture), but maybe snakebite so that a warlord can take the trait to make grots feerless?
im taking traktor cannons becasue they were cheaper and autohit and do better dmg against fly units.
not sure what warlord trait ill use or what relics, but this fits a dreddmob with some shooting. might be competitive if it works with the codex rules.
what do you guys think?

**Salt donkey**

tneva82 wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
Well if anyone was wondering if certain people will never truly be satisfied with the great things they get, this thread proves it. While I can understand the disappointment some have with certain units, its pretty clear the ork codex as a whole is fantastic. Stuff like a tractor kannon mek guns, deff dreads, boyz, grots, storm boyz, killa kanz, deff rolla battlewagons, deff killa wartrikes, etc, etc are all fantastic options. For those complaining about point increases, remember that all those units could nearly make it top tables despite lacking kultures, stratagem support, and other new special rules. If they stayed where they where at points wise, I guarantee people would have been demanding point increases for them by the time chapter approved arrived. To me most of the naysayers are just mad that their pet units stayed bad or appears 'worse' on the surface. Either that or they just are willfully ignoring the impact that kultures, stratagems, rule changes, and point decreases on previously poor units will have on the army because they feel entitled to blatantly OP rules. Being disappointed that stuff like the Stompa are clearly still bad is fine. Decrying the whole codex as being bad because it isn't obviously better than the most OP codex in the game right is basically trolling.

For traktor guns you are already planning to cheat. Deff dreads only works with DS. Boyz took nerf. Stormboyz took nerf. Killa kans got price decrease which helps but still soft and no klan culture.

The codex will be sub average aiming for bottom parts in tournaments. Overall power level didn't change. Indeed when you compare to index vs index days orks got WEAKER. Only thing that happened is GW got changed 1 sub-optimal build into another forcing buying new models.

And orks only got to top tables if they delibarately SLOW PLAYED 2-3 turn games. Yeah if you rewrite game and don't play same game you can do better. Gee. Play 5+ turns like scenarios tell you and you lose.

But yeah whatever. Cheaters word doesn't count much anyway

Ok mate whatever you say. Not entirely sure how your so certain that stuff like boyz and stormboyz will be worse from index to codex (I guess stuff like options between essentially +2 to movement, 6+++, and 6++ with tons of free re-rolls as well as stratagem support and better rules are just not worth a1 point per model increase and a larger base size). You're also ignoring all the other units which dropped in points. While it may not matter for some, do you honestly expect that every single bad index unit will still stay bad in the codex? You remind me of the eldar players who called their codex trash when it was first revealed. Just because the Ork codex isnt exactly what you wanted doesn't mean it's bad.

My prediction is that Orks to be a top tier army that will be heavily played by the time LVO rolls around. It will be interesting to see which one of us is right

**fe40k**

What makes a codex, “good”?

Internal balance?
External balance?
Competitive-ness?
Number of viable builds?

Orks will be competitive - Tellyporta and Evil Suns are what is holding together. But; it won’t be fun, in that the number of units that are usable, and worth their points (especially compared to other units), isn’t there.

There are real changes, and more importantly, lack-thereof; that raises too many questions on how GW could think that was acceptable - or worse, balanced.

The models you use will change, and your tournament performances may improve - but I don’t want a book based around competition; I want a book where I don’t feel, or worse, know, I’m handicapping myself, or throwing the game; because I took units I liked the lore of.

**xlDuke**

I'm holding out until I've played a few games before I start cementing my opinion on the book. From what I've seen so far it's hard to deny it will be better than the Index I'm used to, though not necessarily in all the ways I was hoping for.

Regardless, I think I'll be having far more fun with this book than with the Index and have a lot more choices about what I can take in a list to have a reasonably chance at success. I'm very much looking forward to getting my hands on the book and playing some games.

**Jidmah**

Since the puzzle is almost complete, I'm not sure orks will be a top tier competitive army. But I wouldn't be taking bets on them not being top tier either.

Too many good option have changed to make a clear call whether they continue to be top choices for our army or dropped to mid tear.
- Boyz increased in cost but gained a ton of stratagems to support them, basically everything you could have wished for: Deep strike, tide of traitors, fight again, and most of the clan specific ones are great as well.
- KMK became a whole new unit. No more gretchin, more points, more damage, probably not stratagem support. I wouldn't bet on them staying on top tables, but who knows. The profile is still decent.
- Warphead limited to +3 from other orks, but no longer blows up all the time and can cast two powers now, with at least two of the new ones being decent. I have no doubt he will be staying in top lists, but the effect he has on the army is hard to tell.
- Warboss point increase is probably not going to matter much since warlord traits and relic klaw will very well outweight the additional 10 points you are paying. Biker warboss stays the same anyways.

Too many weak options didn't get straight up buffs
- Kanz got close combat weapons they don't need and no stratagems or kulture
- Planes stayed the same, but at least the dakkajet has a stratagem to shoot units with FLY (which is basically the entire aeldari faction)
- Deff dread got cheaper and weaker CC weapons, when it needed speed and/or durability. Being able to tellyport them might bring them back into the game though
- Still no reason to field trukk boyz or wagon boyz
- Bubble chuckas less dependent on your opponent and more dependent on luck
- No change to lootas or burnas that would make them good.

And then there is a bunch of wildcards we don't know how they will perform:
- Flash gits have scary gun now and an armor save. A unit that can wipe out a unit of helblasters after deep striking might well be worth 300 points.
- Wazzbom Blastajet can now potentially deal a ton of damage due to all its weapons being improved. Hard to hit anti-tank might something you want in your army, whether the KFF on it is worth it or not.
- Tractor cannons auto-hitting fliers might be game-breaking, but they won't doing a whole lot against stuff that doesn't fly. Like a knight.
- Dragsta, Scrapjet and boosta-blasta. All three deal enough damage and cost little enough to be useful, but any of them might or might not be over the threshold for competitive gaming.
- The Wartrike might not be useful at all. He is no warboss, can't take melee relics, which means he will primarily be taken for his aura. Unless battlewagons, nauts or the buggies can carry their own weight, we won't be seeing him over Zardsnark or biker warboss.
- Bonekrusha fixes the problem I had with my rolla wagons this edition - the first degradation takes them down to d6 attacks, at which point you don't want to spend 19 points on the deffrolla anymore. With 2d6 and the additional mortal wounds, it will be still worth ramming stuff. 159 point still isn't cheap, so it depends heavily on having passengers worth transporting like nobz or MANz.
- Gunwagon also has the potential to be powerful. Assuming the rokkit option hasn't gone away, it can fire 2d6 S7 AP-2 D2 shots and 5 S8 AP-2 D3 shots at BS 4+. 218 for all that isn't cheap (190 for big shootas instead of rokkits), but that's still a lot of dakka on a T8 battletank that can move freely.
- Both nauts got a point drop and a better main gun. While both guns sound awesome, I'm not sure that they will do well in a meta that is equipped to handle daemon primarchs, castellans and baneblades.

Stratagems, warlord traits and kultures look powerful enough to compete with many other armies, I don't think we can be making calls yet which mix of klans will be taking the top. Being able to spread models across up to three clans with next to no drawback is powerful all on its own.

So I don't think this is the time to start making ad hominem attacks over people think orks will do fine.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

xlDuke wrote:
I'm holding out until I've played a few games before I start cementing my opinion on the book. From what I've seen so far it's hard to deny it will be better than the Index I'm used to, though not necessarily in all the ways I was hoping for.

Regardless, I think I'll be having far more fun with this book than with the Index and have a lot more choices about what I can take in a list to have a reasonably chance at success. I'm very much looking forward to getting my hands on the book and playing some games.

Fully agree.

**tneva82**

fe40k wrote:
What makes a codex, “good”?

Internal balance?
External balance?
Competitive-ness?
Number of viable builds?

Orks will be competitive - Tellyporta and Evil Suns are what is holding together. But; it won’t be fun, in that the number of units that are usable, and worth their points (especially compared to other units), isn’t there.

There are real changes, and more importantly, lack-thereof; that raises too many questions on how GW could think that was acceptable - or worse, balanced.

The models you use will change, and your tournament performances may improve - but I don’t want a book based around competition; I want a book where I don’t feel, or worse, know, I’m handicapping myself, or throwing the game; because I took units I liked the lore of.

If by "competive" you mean bottom quarter sure. But even if you go for the 1 viable build you will be losing most of your games. And of course that assumes you either already had plenty of evil sun walkers and traktor cannons or buy them.

And for your last...Well good for you if you like evil sun walkers. But apart from those never been a big thing in fluff(evil suns have always been about going fast. Not hulking around in slow walkers) and teleport as general strategy has never been goal. It was special case in armageddon which showcased Ghazkhull's new strategies. Whole point of 3rd war of armageddon was how Ghazkhull surprised Imperium with new ways. Mass teleporting with army has never been described as standard ork lineup.

But if you don't go for teleporting evil suns you ARE handicapping yourself.

**SHUPPET**

tneva82 wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
Well if anyone was wondering if certain people will never truly be satisfied with the great things they get, this thread proves it. While I can understand the disappointment some have with certain units, its pretty clear the ork codex as a whole is fantastic. Stuff like a tractor kannon mek guns, deff dreads, boyz, grots, storm boyz, killa kanz, deff rolla battlewagons, deff killa wartrikes, etc, etc are all fantastic options. For those complaining about point increases, remember that all those units could nearly make it top tables despite lacking kultures, stratagem support, and other new special rules. If they stayed where they where at points wise, I guarantee people would have been demanding point increases for them by the time chapter approved arrived. To me most of the naysayers are just mad that their pet units stayed bad or appears 'worse' on the surface. Either that or they just are willfully ignoring the impact that kultures, stratagems, rule changes, and point decreases on previously poor units will have on the army because they feel entitled to blatantly OP rules. Being disappointed that stuff like the Stompa are clearly still bad is fine. Decrying the whole codex as being bad because it isn't obviously better than the most OP codex in the game right is basically trolling.

For traktor guns you are already planning to cheat. Deff dreads only works with DS. Boyz took nerf. Stormboyz took nerf. Killa kans got price decrease which helps but still soft and no klan culture.

The codex will be sub average aiming for bottom parts in tournaments. Overall power level didn't change. Indeed when you compare to index vs index days orks got WEAKER. Only thing that happened is GW got changed 1 sub-optimal build into another forcing buying new models.

And orks only got to top tables if they delibarately SLOW PLAYED 2-3 turn games. Yeah if you rewrite game and don't play same game you can do better. Gee. Play 5+ turns like scenarios tell you and you lose.

But yeah whatever. Cheaters word doesn't count much anyway

whats this about cheating?

**Spreelock**

Guys, any leaks for Power levels or datasheets? Some of them are still missing from the reviews.

**Daedalus81**

Spoiler:

Jidmah wrote:

Since the puzzle is almost complete, I'm not sure orks will be a top tier competitive army. But I wouldn't be taking bets on them not being top tier either.

Too many good option have changed to make a clear call whether they continue to be top choices for our army or dropped to mid tear.
- Boyz increased in cost but gained a ton of stratagems to support them, basically everything you could have wished for: Deep strike, tide of traitors, fight again, and most of the clan specific ones are great as well.
- KMK became a whole new unit. No more gretchin, more points, more damage, probably not stratagem support. I wouldn't bet on them staying on top tables, but who knows. The profile is still decent.
- Warphead limited to +3 from other orks, but no longer blows up all the time and can cast two powers now, with at least two of the new ones being decent. I have no doubt he will be staying in top lists, but the effect he has on the army is hard to tell.
- Warboss point increase is probably not going to matter much since warlord traits and relic klaw will very well outweight the additional 10 points you are paying. Biker warboss stays the same anyways.

Too many weak options didn't get straight up buffs
- Kanz got close combat weapons they don't need and no stratagems or kulture
- Planes stayed the same, but at least the dakkajet has a stratagem to shoot units with FLY (which is basically the entire aeldari faction)
- Deff dread got cheaper and weaker CC weapons, when it needed speed and/or durability. Being able to tellyport them might bring them back into the game though
- Still no reason to field trukk boyz or wagon boyz
- Bubble chuckas less dependent on your opponent and more dependent on luck
- No change to lootas or burnas that would make them good.

And then there is a bunch of wildcards we don't know how they will perform:
- Flash gits have scary gun now and an armor save. A unit that can wipe out a unit of helblasters after deep striking might well be worth 300 points.
- Wazzbom Blastajet can now potentially deal a ton of damage due to all its weapons being improved. Hard to hit anti-tank might something you want in your army, whether the KFF on it is worth it or not.
- Tractor cannons auto-hitting fliers might be game-breaking, but they won't doing a whole lot against stuff that doesn't fly. Like a knight.
- Dragsta, Scrapjet and boosta-blasta. All three deal enough damage and cost little enough to be useful, but any of them might or might not be over the threshold for competitive gaming.
- The Wartrike might not be useful at all. He is no warboss, can't take melee relics, which means he will primarily be taken for his aura. Unless battlewagons, nauts or the buggies can carry their own weight, we won't be seeing him over Zardsnark or biker warboss.
- Bonekrusha fixes the problem I had with my rolla wagons this edition - the first degradation takes them down to d6 attacks, at which point you don't want to spend 19 points on the deffrolla anymore. With 2d6 and the additional mortal wounds, it will be still worth ramming stuff. 159 point still isn't cheap, so it depends heavily on having passengers worth transporting like nobz or MANz.
- Gunwagon also has the potential to be powerful. Assuming the rokkit option hasn't gone away, it can fire 2d6 S7 AP-2 D2 shots and 5 S8 AP-2 D3 shots at BS 4+. 218 for all that isn't cheap (190 for big shootas instead of rokkits), but that's still a lot of dakka on a T8 battletank that can move freely.
- Both nauts got a point drop and a better main gun. While both guns sound awesome, I'm not sure that they will do well in a meta that is equipped to handle daemon primarchs, castellans and baneblades.

Stratagems, warlord traits and kultures look powerful enough to compete with many other armies, I don't think we can be making calls yet which mix of klans will be taking the top. Being able to spread models across up to three clans with next to no drawback is powerful all on its own.

So I don't think this is the time to start making ad hominem attacks over people think orks will do fine.

- Boyz have 1 in 10 Tankbusta Bomms for free.
- KMKs can get reroll 1s from Runtherds. It still remains the best way to reach out and harass tanks on the cheap.
- Flyers have Deathskullz or Bad Moon, but I need to see the datasheets.
- Deffdreads are in an enviable position for all dreadnought lovers.
- Trukk Boyz - dunno - I need to have the book first.
- Bubblechukkas did get cheaper though. I don't think they were really used before.
- Waiting on armor save confirmation for Lootas (Scorpions video is still too blurry)
- Burnas are cheaper and so are the transports and have other ways to get them close. I won't use them though, because so much else fills their role.

**Morkphoiz**

Why is nobody talking about bika nobz? They went down 4ppm and the cc weapons got cheaper too by 4 points (big choppa) and 12 points (pk) Combined with evil sunz trait and trike aura buff they could potentially wreck something really seriously on t1. I mean we talk 16" base move with sunz! And while still expensive at 43pts for a choppanob they're scary fast and still t5 w3 models.

Gonna try a few mobs of those combined with a few of the new buggies and a deffrolla wagon also filled with nobz for my first game with the codex. Sounds fun

**Daedalus81**

Morkphoiz wrote:
Why is nobody talking about bika nobz? They went down 4ppm and the cc weapons got cheaper too by 4 points (big choppa) and 12 points (pk) Combined with evil sunz trait and trike aura buff they could potentially wreck something really seriously on t1. I mean we talk 16" base move with sunz! And while still expensive at 43pts for a choppanob they're scary fast and still t5 w3 models.

Gonna try a few mobs of those combined with a few of the new buggies and a deffrolla wagon also filled with nobz for my first game with the codex. Sounds fun

Get them a kff and make them snakebite. T5 4+/5++/6+++

Not as fast, but stupid durable and spoils 3 damage weapons.

**An Actual Englishman**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Morkphoiz wrote:
Why is nobody talking about bika nobz? They went down 4ppm and the cc weapons got cheaper too by 4 points (big choppa) and 12 points (pk) Combined with evil sunz trait and trike aura buff they could potentially wreck something really seriously on t1. I mean we talk 16" base move with sunz! And while still expensive at 43pts for a choppanob they're scary fast and still t5 w3 models.

Gonna try a few mobs of those combined with a few of the new buggies and a deffrolla wagon also filled with nobz for my first game with the codex. Sounds fun

Get them a kff and make them snakebite. T5 4+/5++/6+++

Not as fast, but stupid durable and spoils 3 damage weapons.

They're 40 odd points minimum. Take it from someone who tested squads of Nob bikers extensively since 8th dropped, they ain't great.

They needed a greater price cut or better gun than standard warbikes. As it is they don't offer enough for their roughly double points cost.

**Daedalus81**

An Actual Englishman wrote:

They're 40 odd points minimum. Take it from someone who tested squads of Nob bikers extensively since 8th dropped, they ain't great.

They needed a greater price cut or better gun than standard warbikes. As it is they don't offer enough for their roughly double points cost.

I'm still interested to try them on the table especially since it's a prime opportunity to convert boarboyz.

**lord_blackfang**

Nob Bikes cost the same as Traktor Kannons, nuff said.

**koooaei**

So, taking into consideration our last tourney. What does the ork dex have vs 3 knights in a 1500 game? Without going too far away from the TAC list.

**Tyel**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Nob Bikes cost the same as Traktor Kannons, nuff said.

Also 5 of them are the same as a 30 man boy squad or 24~ stormboys.

**Perfect Organism**

I can't decide if the Freeboota kultur is any good or not. Seems like it is once again offering a benefit when you don't really need it; in my experience, most ork kills happen in a fight phase once contact has been made. On the other hand, it's a huge boost for shooting armies if you can actually get an early kill with shooting.

Of course, as I said when it first got leaked, it is completely contrary to the concept of freebootaz, since the most effective build is to have the entire army made up of units with the kultur.

**lord_blackfang**

Perfect Organism wrote:
I can't decide if the Freeboota kultur is any good or not. Seems like it is once again offering a benefit when you don't really need it; in my experience, most ork kills happen in a fight phase once contact has been made. On the other hand, it's a huge boost for shooting armies if you can actually get an early kill with shooting.

Of course, as I said when it first got leaked, it is completely contrary to the concept of freebootaz, since the most effective build is to have the entire army made up of units with the kultur.

It triggers in every phase tho. Even in your opponent's Fight phase.

**Perfect Organism**

lord_blackfang wrote:

Spoiler:

Perfect Organism wrote:
I can't decide if the Freeboota kultur is any good or not. Seems like it is once again offering a benefit when you don't really need it; in my experience, most ork kills happen in a fight phase once contact has been made. On the other hand, it's a huge boost for shooting armies if you can actually get an early kill with shooting.

It triggers in every phase tho. Even in your opponent's Fight phase.

I know, but in my experience you don't usually need any bonus when you are charging (unless you are so depleted that you are unlikely to get a kill early in the phase), rarely kill a whole unit in an enemy fight phase, and it's less of a benefit to turn 3+ attacks into 2+ ones than it is to turn 5+ ones into 4+ or 6+ into 5+.

I wonder how it interacts with transports? Are units in an open-topped transport able to either grant or receive the bonus? Can they get the bonus from their transport killing something or vice-versa?

**Daedalus81**

Perfect Organism wrote:
I can't decide if the Freeboota kultur is any good or not. Seems like it is once again offering a benefit when you don't really need it; in my experience, most ork kills happen in a fight phase once contact has been made. On the other hand, it's a huge boost for shooting armies if you can actually get an early kill with shooting.

Of course, as I said when it first got leaked, it is completely contrary to the concept of freebootaz, since the most effective build is to have the entire army made up of units with the kultur.

It comes down to timing and opportunity. Flash Gitz have a pseudo Disintegrator now and could finish something off and let other units unload.

**geargutz**

heres the collection of stuff i noticed when listening to striking scorpians stuff

Spoiler:

all this is suspect, since the person was reading it and he mightve missread some stuff, so none of this is final.
buff=for every10boyz, 1 tankbusta bomb (0pts)
nerf=tankbustas reroll tohit of 1s instead on failed hits (possible mistake)
buff=komandoes (8pt), 1 in every5 can take 1 tankbusta bomb (0pts)
runtherd=squig hound/grot lash only effects gretchin "infantry"
scrapjet has the same spiked ram (on top of havving its drill) as the boom blasta
nerf=stormboy full throttle just adds 6inches to advance, so no charging unless you have that warboss, and they still get the same mortal wounds from doing this (went from 8pt to 9pts)
buff=traktor kannon r48 hvy1 s8 -2 d6dmg (roll 2d6 and pick highest against flyers),if this kills a unit with fly it auto crash and burns,...what is auto hit that other have mentioned (maybe only against fly)?
gunwagon=comes with ardcase,under half speed in movement phase shoot twice with killkanon/zapgun/kanon (no rokets on any wagon) (dont know if there is better bs?)
killkan=no kmb anymore. (kmb is d6 dmg now).buzzsaw,kanclaw,drilla are all wpn options (all 0pts)
defdredd=(pl5)(can fit 3 in a tellyport),start with 2dredclaws (15each),looks like we can replace its existing claws with ranged wpns (dakka dredd!!!!????)(kmb spam? maybe not worth it but has clan traits for shooting),can take 4 dredsaws (cheaper melee option but less efficiant)
flashgits=1 ammo runt for every 5
truck=no rokets any more. is now 10pts cheaper then the warcopta (might be worth taking this instead?)
stompa=no change to the psyko daka blasta rules

edit, accidentally listed the tankbustas as 8pts when i meant to have that on the komandoes

**koooaei**

Not if they're in a transport. And i doubt it's a good idea to run 30 ppm 4+ armored dudes on foot. So, pretty useless for them. On the other hand, deepstrike might help. Still definitely worse than deepstriking regular boyz. But at least something for fluffy awesome looking pirate armies

**geargutz**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:

- KMKs can get reroll 1s from Runtherds. It still remains the best way to reach out and harass tanks on the cheap.

nah, i listened to scorpians vid too, it only effects grot infantry, and the grot krew of the mek guns dont shoot the gun (the gun only shoots itself).

**Daedalus81**

geargutz wrote:

nah, i listened to scorpians vid too, it only effects grot infantry, and the grot krew of the mek guns dont shoot the gun (the gun only shoots itself).

That sucks.

**geargutz**

Daedalus81 wrote:
geargutz wrote:

nah, i listened to scorpians vid too, it only effects grot infantry, and the grot krew of the mek guns dont shoot the gun (the gun only shoots itself).

That sucks.

not only did its wpns get more expensive but also it lost its abilities for the krew to do anything (they dont even act like extra wounds, they are just there to stand there and take up space), and yes, no unit/strat/trait buffs them to my knowledge.

the unfortunate thing about it is this is stil probably one our few good shooting options still. if you want long range high damage shooting with good balaistic skill this is still pretty much our go to unit, at leasts the other wpn options besides the kmk got longer range and better stats (especially the traktorkannon)

**Daedalus81**

geargutz wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
geargutz wrote:

nah, i listened to scorpians vid too, it only effects grot infantry, and the grot krew of the mek guns dont shoot the gun (the gun only shoots itself).

That sucks.

not only did its wpns get more expensive but also it lost its abilities for the krew to do anything (they dont even act like extra wounds, they are just there to stand there and take up space), and yes, no unit/strat/trait buffs them to my knowledge.

the unfortunate thing about it is this is stil probably one our few good shooting options still. if you want long range high damage shooting with good balaistic skill this is still pretty much our go to unit, at leasts the other wpn options besides the kmk got longer range and better stats (especially the traktorkannon)

I still think they'll have a place. There are tons of options otherwise.

The dakkawagon and the KMZ seem pretty solid. Teleporting/ambushing TBs, too. The anti-tank buggies seem like they're in the right point zone, but I need to see the book in person. Lootas if they're on 4+ armor.

**geargutz**

Daedalus81 wrote:

I still think they'll have a place. There are tons of options otherwise.

The dakkawagon and the KMZ seem pretty solid. Teleporting/ambushing TBs, too. The anti-tank buggies seem like they're in the right point zone, but I need to see the book in person. Lootas if they're on 4+ armor.

i agree on the mekgun still ebing usefull, but soley on its merits of being something our army lacks many options for (long range durable shooting).

would be realy happy with 4+ lootas, but not expecting it. probabaly best way to run them is behind grot shield screens.

gunwagon im not sure about. will have to see. its got a lot of wounds, but like the stompa it doesn't sound like it does much damage for the amount of health it has. "all bark and very little bite"

**Jidmah**

geargutz wrote:
heres the collection of stuff i noticed when listening to striking scorpians stuff

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAPf876wQfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSYaAwhNhO4&t=3833s

all this is suspect, since the person was reading it and he mightve missread some stuff, so none of this is final.
buff=for every10boyz, 1 tankbusta bomb (0pts)
nerf=tankbustas reroll tohit of 1s instead on failed hits (possible mistake)
buff=komandoes (8pt), 1 in every5 can take 1 tankbusta bomb (0pts)
runtherd=squig hound/grot lash only effects gretchin "infantry"
scrapjet has the same spiked ram (on top of havving its drill) as the boom blasta
nerf=stormboy full throttle just adds 6inches to advance, so no charging unless you have that warboss, and they still get the same mortal wounds from doing this (went from 8pt to 9pts)
buff=traktor kannon r48 hvy1 s8 -2 d6dmg (roll 2d6 and pick highest against flyers),if this kills a unit with fly it auto crash and burns,...what is auto hit that other have mentioned (maybe only against fly)?
gunwagon=comes with ardcase,under half speed in movement phase shoot twice with killkanon/zapgun/kanon (no rokets on any wagon) (dont know if there is better bs?)
killkan=no kmb anymore. (kmb is d6 dmg now).buzzsaw,kanclaw,drilla are all wpn options (all 0pts)
defdredd=(pl5)(can fit 3 in a tellyport),start with 2dredclaws (15each),looks like we can replace its existing claws with ranged wpns (dakka dredd!!!!????)(kmb spam? maybe not worth it but has clan traits for shooting),can take 4 dredsaws (cheaper melee option but less efficiant)
flashgits=1 ammo runt for every 5
truck=no rokets any more. is now 10pts cheaper then the warcopta (might be worth taking this instead?)
stompa=no change to the psyko daka blasta rules

edit, accidentally listed the tankbustas as 8pts when i meant to have that on the komandoes

Thanks for the write-up!

I must say, love the tank busta bombs going to boyz, but I'm not sure what to do with them on kommandoz.
As for killa kanz, you can just get the KMB from the index entry.
For the deff dread, I've been thinking about this. Maybe you should have 1 dreadklaw and 3 saws, so you'd have three attacks with the better profile for hard targets and three for targets with multiple models - the dread would end up costing 90 points that way.