Middle Earth: the Strategy Battle Game - Official Thread

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**ErkyTimbers**

Wow, those are impressive! I didn't expect the jump in quality from the old models to be quite that drastic. Can't wait to see more!

**Dark Apostle 666**

I like that Theoden is wielding his sword in his left hand - a nice nod to Bernard Hill, who played him in the films and is left-handed.

The Theoden on foot model does look a touch doughy around the middle, but he's much better than those forgeworld Dol-Guldur Nazgul with their stumpy legs and gorilla arms.

I'm not sure about the Gondorians yet - I think with a naturalistic "LOTR-appropriate" paintjob they'll look good - in bare plastic, I think facial features and hair have a slightly cartoony/animesque quality that reads as more AoS or 40k style.

**Snrub**

Reposting this from the N&R thread.

reds8n wrote:
via FB, allegedly from someone/people who were at Ardacon

NEW LOTR SBG CHANGES
-All profiles changed completely
-Tweaks to magic
-New Heroic actions
-Buidling armies radically changed
-Army special rules
-Warriors of Rohan don't change
-Minas tirith warriors gain shield wall
-New one profile Elrond
-Balrog changed and according to comments by Jay Clare seemingly competitive
-All models now have keywords
-Some special rules will only follow other warriors with similar keywords, elf standfast effecting elves but not humans/
-Heroic Tiers
-Theoden is a hero of legend
-Heroes of legend are meant to lead armies.
-Warband size 18 , and additional rule for courage, if you have a Hero of legend, on a turn you would test for courage all in the force pass*
-Universal heroic actions (move,shoot,combat)
-Specialized heroic actions only certain characters can do.
-Captains may lose the ability to do certain special strikes
-New actions - Heroic Resolve, Heroic Strength, Heroic Challenge, Heroic Defense (Model only wounded on natural 6's)
-Magic, all spells re balanced, all powers in main book and all have a channeled version
-Sorcerous blast will now stop after the target model makes first contact
-New spell, Protection of the valor, caster or friend within three inches cannot be target by spells, the channeled version of this is all friendlily within three
-Ally Matrix
-Historical alliances , Impossible alliances.
-Confirmed army bonus's, Rohan- +1 strength to cav on the charge.
Ents- Fearless, Immune to all move impeding effects and some magic.
Harad- 50% bows still good, warriors and raiders get poison rule on main melee weapon
Mordor- +1 courage, reroll ones when outnumber opponent
-Special strike, tinkered with.
-New Theoden profile, M6,F5/4, S4,D5,A2,W2,C5 3 might and will 1 fate
-Questions from the Q&A
-Armies of the hobbit coming soon.
-Banishment spell available for more then just galadrial
-Sap will harder to cast
-Nazgul changing
-Everyarmy is a viable option.
-Every profile has weapons assigned to them! (Now more Galadrial with axe)
- Hurls now throw the model DIRECTLY AWAY.
- Army of the dead a viable solo army (via rules like the denizens of mirlwood list)
-Warrior upgrades still around and new ones added
-Eagles a lot better, arguably better then fellbeasts
-Throwing weapons no more -1 when throwing on the charge
-Character upgrades for models apply to only those in warband (redshields etc)

Do we know who these new miniatures are sculpted by? Whoever it is did a fantastic job on Theoden.

**Oppl**

Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
I like that Theoden is wielding his sword in his left hand - a nice nod to Bernard Hill, who played him in the films and is left-handed.

The Theoden on foot model does look a touch doughy around the middle, but he's much better than those forgeworld Dol-Guldur Nazgul with their stumpy legs and gorilla arms.

I'm not sure about the Gondorians yet - I think with a naturalistic "LOTR-appropriate" paintjob they'll look good - in bare plastic, I think facial features and hair have a slightly cartoony/animesque quality that reads as more AoS or 40k style.

Exactly my opinion too. They're well done models for sure, but I'm not really getting the right vibe and I don't think they'll fit in too well with the old Perry sculpts. The Ingold (shield dude?) looks good and will fit in leading a band of WoMT, but after seeing the painted version of the mounted guy I probably won't be adding foot or mounted versions to my army. They just don't fit the established aesthetic to me. Great sculpts though!

**Inquisitor Gideon**

I'll disagree about Húrin. His armour is a slightly more ornate version of the Citadel Guard, he'll fit in perfectly with them. Pretty much perfect for the Warden of the Keys.

**Prestor Jon**

judgedoug wrote:
ErkyTimbers wrote:
Hmm, interesting theories guys!
I'll probably hold off on buying anything LOTR related for a bit longer than I had planned to see if any sort of SC or faction starter sets get announced.

I honestly think it won't happen. SBG is far cheaper per-model than 40k or AOS; a "Start Collecting" for SBG would basically be most of an entire army versus 40k or AOS where as SC is just a single cornerstone of an army.

While they may not release SC sets for SBG hopefully they'll at least rerelease all or most of the old box sets. I would like to get a full unit of the Dunlendings, when they're not raiding the Westfold they'll double as Jomsvikings.

Spoiler:

It would also be great if they released a set of all the Numenor models or at least the spearmen and archers together since the swordsmen are comingled on the alliance sprue with elves.

**judgedoug**

Snrub wrote:
Do we know who these new miniatures are sculpted by? Whoever it is did a fantastic job on Theoden.

I forget his name, but he, along with the rest of the Middle-earth GW/FW team, participate actively on the Great British Hobbit League facebook page.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prestor Jon wrote:
While they may not release SC sets for SBG hopefully they'll at least rerelease all or most of the old box sets. I would like to get a full unit of the Dunlendings, when they're not raiding the Westfold they'll double as Jomsvikings.

Spoiler:

It would also be great if they released a set of all the Numenor models or at least the spearmen and archers together since the swordsmen are comingled on the alliance sprue with elves.

I am highly confident the Warriors of Dunland with Bows will come back in production (the normal warriors are still available), but I highly doubt that GW will ever release anything to retail again that is not plastic. All metal, finecast, and fw resin will be direct order only.

**Prestor Jon**

judgedoug wrote:
Snrub wrote:
Do we know who these new miniatures are sculpted by? Whoever it is did a fantastic job on Theoden.

I forget his name, but he, along with the rest of the Middle-earth GW/FW team, participate actively on the Great British Hobbit League facebook page.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prestor Jon wrote:
While they may not release SC sets for SBG hopefully they'll at least rerelease all or most of the old box sets. I would like to get a full unit of the Dunlendings, when they're not raiding the Westfold they'll double as Jomsvikings.

Spoiler:

It would also be great if they released a set of all the Numenor models or at least the spearmen and archers together since the swordsmen are comingled on the alliance sprue with elves.

I am highly confident the Warriors of Dunland with Bows will come back in production (the normal warriors are still available), but I highly doubt that GW will ever release anything to retail again that is not plastic. All metal, finecast, and fw resin will be direct order only.

The GW webstore only has the hand weapon warriors, no two handed axes. The command group hasn't been available in a long time as well and even Thrydan Wolfsbane is gone from the webstore now. Hopefully all the warriors and the command become available again as I'd like to run a GW legal warband that can also ally with my Uruk Hai for bigger games. Worst case I'll just keep using Gripping Beast and Warlord models as proxies.

**Polonius**

Yeah, some of the human models can be so easily approximated with third party stuff, especially since LOTR is closer to true 28mm. I've been eyeing Conquest Games Normans for gondor fiefdom troops, or the gripping beasts plastics for Rohavnion/dunlanding/outer fiefdoms.

I want to build a nice gondorian army, so I'm hoping they cycle those kits through.

**Snrub**

judgedoug wrote:
I forget his name, but he, along with the rest of the Middle-earth GW/FW team, participate actively on the Great British Hobbit League facebook page.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

**charlest**

Quick question (I know some is unknown but maybe educated guesses can be made).

Is the Battle of Pelennor Fields enough stuff for a real go at the game? Meaning, if that was pretty much all I bought, would this game be satisfying beyond just a couple of plays? I'm having a hard time figuring out what a typical size model count is for this game.

I'm asking more from a casual angle. I play Kill Team and Gaslands very casually, and we mostly do board games, but I wouldn't mind having this and grabbing just a touch of fantasy terrain to battle it out every once in awhile. It would replace Saga for me, which I used to play a bit and still have some Saxons which may fit in with the Gondorians.

**Polonius**

Most LOTR warbands I've seen have had a few more characters than the box set provides (essentially one nazgul and theoden), but with some simple conversion you could make captains of rohan out of riders.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

Polonius wrote:
Most LOTR warbands I've seen have had a few more characters than the box set provides (essentially one nazgul and theoden), but with some simple conversion you could make captains of rohan out of riders.

So, you get roughly 650pts per side in the new box, which is a very normal, "full" sized game. Also with Heroes of Legend having larger warbands, they're legal, albeit unoptimized lists. Short version, its an amazing starter.

Edit: BTW Charlest... Gaslands... Saga... Middle-Earth? You don't happen to game at Mythicos do you? I only ask because i'm doing Middle-Earth tutorials this weekend.

**charlest**

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Polonius wrote:
Most LOTR warbands I've seen have had a few more characters than the box set provides (essentially one nazgul and theoden), but with some simple conversion you could make captains of rohan out of riders.

So, you get roughly 650pts per side in the new box, which is a very normal, "full" sized game. Also with Heroes of Legend having larger warbands, they're legal, albeit unoptimized lists. Short version, its an amazing starter.

Edit: BTW Charlest... Gaslands... Saga... Middle-Earth? You don't happen to game at Mythicos do you? I only ask because i'm doing Middle-Earth tutorials this weekend.

Nope. I haven't played Saga in forever. Just playing Gaslands and Kill Team every once in awhile now.

Having to buy a few characters down the line isn't bad at all. I was more worried with having to purchase entire new unit boxes.

More questions - what about table size. I don't have a mat or any fantasy terrain and we game at my place. Do I need 6'x3'? The back of the Pelennor Fields box shows just a few barren trees scattered for terrain, is something like that good enough?

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

4x4 is the "standard" and honestly, several of the scenarios would probably work just fine on 4x3 if you fiddle with them.

**Dark Apostle 666**

I play on a 4x4, and to be honest, that's plenty of space until you get up into the big, 1000+ point battles that take a whole day to play - for standard or lower points, say 500 and under, you might really be able to get away with smaller tables than that.

One thing I will say, is that for me, terrain makes the game - while it makes sense for the Pelennor fields to be pretty bare, a more populated battlefield makes gameplay more fun, I think. It prevents shooting from being quite so powerful, prevents dull shooting matches, and, obviously, looks good. Obviously, you don't want so much terrain that it makes shooting impossible, or prevents cavalry from having anywhere to maneuver, but for me there's few things better than a table with a good mix of terrain.

**charlest**

Thanks everyone, very useful information.

**judgedoug**

To echo what everyone else has said:

that starter box is basically two complete armies; you will find that you might perhaps want to add Rohan Royal Guard to the Rohan side, or Eomer, or a Banner bearer, because the models are beautiful. Perhaps Gothmog on the Mordor side, Guritz, etc.

4x4 is the standard, sixteen square feet. As most models move 6 inches and cavalry 10 inches, you won't really see 6x4 games at twenty-four square feet, unless there's a HUGE battle.

**thekingofkings**

I use Unreleased miniatures to fill in those GW blanks, 4x4 is good and when doing the pelennor we have a lot of the farms and rammas terrain to fight in.

**godswildcard**

So, now that preorders are up and running, what does everyone feel like is a good way to expand on the box set?

In my mind:
- Morannon Orc Commanders
- Rohan Commanders
- Black Guards of Barad Dur
- Rohan Royal Guard

**Megalomaniac**

I've never played this game but thinking about getting into it. Anyone know if the rules are more similar to Fantasy or AoS?
Thanks

**godswildcard**

Megalomaniac wrote:
I've never played this game but thinking about getting into it. Anyone know if the rules are more similar to Fantasy or AoS?
Thanks

I would personally say fantasy, but it’s an imperfect comparison. The rules are different than other things GW has put out. Much tighter rule set that rewards multiple army builds and play styles. Pick up the starter, you won’t regret it!

**andyroo9000**

Megalomaniac wrote:
I've never played this game but thinking about getting into it. Anyone know if the rules are more similar to Fantasy or AoS?
Thanks

Defiantly worth picking up the starter set as its good value for money and you get two nice starter armies with rohan being particularly tasty with the new rules and army bonuses. The basic rules are easy to master and once you've got the hang of it you can start using more of the special strikes, magic and heroic actions.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

godswildcard wrote:
So, now that preorders are up and running, what does everyone feel like is a good way to expand on the box set?

In my mind:
- Morannon Orc Commanders
- Rohan Commanders
- Black Guards of Barad Dur
- Rohan Royal Guard

Ill be picking up some Orc Commanders and Black Guard as I've already got a complete Rohan army. This will be the first time I've used Morannon orcs so I'm just gonna start with a standard army and just make sure I outnumber my opponent to make use of the army bonus.

**Ketara**

Megalomaniac wrote:
I've never played this game but thinking about getting into it. Anyone know if the rules are more similar to Fantasy or AoS?
Thanks

Probably more similar to AoS in that it's a skirmish based game, and it has similarities to both in the basic conception of the stat line. But it's overall a much tighter, simpler, and cleaner ruleset than the Warhammer franchise. No armour saves (it's subsumed into the toughness stat), no invulnerables, far fewer special rules as a rule of thumb. It was essentially designed so a bright ten year old could grasp the rules. The more recent additions to heroic actions and weapon types have added a spot of complexity (which I believe is being adjusted in the new edition), but nothing too hard.

**judgedoug**

godswildcard wrote:
So, now that preorders are up and running, what does everyone feel like is a good way to expand on the box set?

In my mind:
- Morannon Orc Commanders
- Rohan Commanders
- Black Guards of Barad Dur
- Rohan Royal Guard

That looks great to me, though I would also add a Rohan Captain (comes with foot and mounted in blister) and/or Eomer or Erkenbrand

**Manchu**

No love for Tier 4 Eowyn?

**Shrapnelsmile**

I cannot locate the profiles for Mordor orcs when I looked at the army book today at the shop, and I"m pretty sure I have some. Where are they hiding?

**Slinky**

They are under Barad-Dur, but can also be used in the Mordor list, I believe.

It's a little confusing, and the one thing I have found that I don't like about the Armies of the LOTR book - Shared profiles between army list are not duplicated, so you have to squint at the list of units "this army may take" at the start of each army list.

**Thargrim**

Re branding the game from the hobbit to middle earth sbg was probably a good idea. The hobbit movies weren't regarded too well, and were a serious mess. This stuff is pretty nostalgic to me, I got started in this hobby with the old box of gondor warriors vs the original plastic mordor orcs. My lgs got in a whole stack/rack of this LOTR stuff, and they didn't even get in any adeptus titanicus stuff, and don't carry any necromunda products. So it strangely seems like they want to keep this game alive to some degree, possibly cause they want to keep the license. These are some great models even though they are getting old too. I would actually really consider getting back into this, but my backlog of stuff is so immense...it's truly disturbing.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

So a new article just went up on the community site and Nick Bayton's uruk scouts featured in the attached picture. Can anyone tell me what on earth the converted feral on bottom right is meant to be carrying