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pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Sevatar lost his vision for a week just by looking at the Emperor. Normal humans could go blind for life looking at him. The Emperor powered and directed the astronomicum while fighting in the Great Crusade. He held back Chaos and still does. He is obviously as powerful as the Chaos gods, otherwise they'd be able to kill him in the warp and not be held back from them, deamons instantly die in the beam of the astronomicum. If anything his power has been downplayed in the HH novels.

Probably because after the Heresy he starts getting worshipped by a galaxy.

He's not as powerful as the Chaos Gods otherwise he'd take them out. He might be as strong as one or two and that's why they haven't killed him.

He's at least as powerful as one God but I mean he rains down ass kicking in the warp and exists in the warp so, he's on par with all the gods it seems.

By that logic the chaos gods are not as powerful as the emperor because they could just take him out.

But they won't. As it stands one Chaos God teaming up with another gives them the power to eliminate one of the others but they won't because they're all selfish beings. If Khorne killed the Emperor he'd be so weakened by it then he'd die soon after so he wouldn't ever do it. But the Emperor is supposed to be the saviour of humanity so if he can kill Chaos then he'd do it.

How do you know they won't. You can't possibly know that. Chaos' number 1 plan is to get rid of the Emperor, they even have a daemon just for the job, the end of empires. Keeping the Emperor alive only hurts the Chaos gods. As for the Emperor killing the gods, there is no lore saying that they can even die, Slaanesh existed before his birth so we know they are probably eternal. He might be able to reduce their powers into a dormant state like Slaanesh.

I just explained why. Equally you can't know they won't. Slaanesh also didn't exist before it's birth at the same time and other gods died so Chaos can too.

You didn't explain why, Khorne wouldn't suffer as he'll always have the other gods and their followers to fight. I never said that he wouldn't kill the gods. Slaanesh did exist before he was born. No other chaos gods died.

I'll make it simple for you. Khorne kill Emperor. Khorne weakened by fight. Other gods kill Khorne. So Khorne never kill Emperor because he dies too if he does.

It is in no way the chaos gods number one priority to kill the emperor. Which ever theory you prefer. I happen to prefer the starchild theory where his soul is dispersed through the warp and all that remains is the starchild. So he’s already dead give or take a few cells, so it’s a moot point. But that is why the gods don’t destroy the emperor. They can’t find him.

I dont actually think I can cope with delv and onething in the one discussion, both of us are far too literal in your interpretation of the literature. Preheresey he was no match for a major god of chaos, the only reason they didn’t just kill him was that they are limited to acting in the immaterium.

And onething, you argue that what the books say is true beyond doubt then admit that it’s all uncertain at the same time it can’t be both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Sevatar lost his vision for a week just by looking at the Emperor. Normal humans could go blind for life looking at him. The Emperor powered and directed the astronomicum while fighting in the Great Crusade. He held back Chaos and still does. He is obviously as powerful as the Chaos gods, otherwise they'd be able to kill him in the warp and not be held back from them, deamons instantly die in the beam of the astronomicum. If anything his power has been downplayed in the HH novels.

A blind person says they can see because some evangelical person puts there hands on them, a room full of people believe they can talk to the dead, a decent hypnotist could do that trick not just a god. Doubt everything U read. The more I hear about the HH books with more I think they are the worst thing to happen to the background. Even though the people behind them tell everyone not to take it as gospel too many people do.

Yeah, at best HH should be regarded to be about as accurate as historical fiction.

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
Yeah, at best HH should be regarded to be about as accurate as historical fiction.

That’s how I see it but unless it’s stated on the cover some people, you know who you are


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also this whole blowing people around with his voice and forcing superhumans to kneel on mass thing, if he was sooo string and good how did anyone against ever stand a chance. Even traitor types.

And delvarious if he was as powerful as a chaos god how come horus, infused with some of their power was kicking his ass and should’ve won had he not been a daddies boy at the end, or been distracted. If the emperor was a god equivalent force he should have just smote (smited) horus on sight. (Biblical sense not table too power sense).

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
Yeah, at best HH should be regarded to be about as accurate as historical fiction.

And the same goes for all books in 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Andykp wrote:

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
Yeah, at best HH should be regarded to be about as accurate as historical fiction.

That’s how I see it but unless it’s stated on the cover some people, you know who you are


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also this whole blowing people around with his voice and forcing superhumans to kneel on mass thing, if he was sooo string and good how did anyone against ever stand a chance. Even traitor types.

And delvarious if he was as powerful as a chaos god how come horus, infused with some of their power was kicking his ass and should’ve won had he not been a daddies boy at the end, or been distracted. If the emperor was a god equivalent force he should have just smote (smited) horus on sight. (Biblical sense not table too power sense).

The First Heretic said he sent them flying with his voice. But everything is unreliable.






"+LORGAR+

The voice came with a wall of pressure now, dense and all too tactile. It pounded into Argel Tal like a miasma of engine wash, heating his armour and throwing him to the ground. Around him, he could see his brothers sent sprawling, their armour skidding across the dust. Defiant in the cyclone of unseen energy, scrolls of scripture ripping from his armour, Lorgar raised his hand to point at his father.

'You are a god. Say the words and end the lie.'

The Emperor shook his head, not in defeat, but calm defiance.

'You are blind, my son. You cling to ancient perceptions, and endanger us all with them. Let this end, Lorgar. Let this end with you heeding my words.'

The psychic wind died with a peal of thunder. Lorgar stood where he was, trembling for reasons his warriors couldn't discern. Blood ran from one ear, running in a slow trail down his tattooed neck.

I am listening, father,' he said."


And of course if there was slave coding then Lorgar would have kneeled when the Emperor forced the Word Bearers to kneel, but he kept on going and ignoring it even when the Emperor's voice sent them flying.




And I say that is what the book says, and unreliable as everything else.

Then why bring it up every five minutes???

Andykp wrote:
Then why bring it up every five minutes???

I don't. But someone else brought it up and I responded.


Are you doing alright? What new stuff have you read?

Reading dark eldar trilogy by Andy chambers. Very good. Much better than that HH stuff you’ve been reading. Recommend you get into it.

Andykp wrote:
Reading dark eldar trilogy by Andy chambers. Very good. Much better than that HH stuff you’ve been reading. Recommend you get into it.

I think the 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.




And Voltstagge on reddit explained why he thinks Perpetual Oll Persson works.


But yeah. Some stuff in the HH books are bad. The Imperial Truth was added to the HH books.

pm713 wrote:
I'll make it simple for you. Khorne kill Emperor. Khorne weakened by fight. Other gods kill Khorne. So Khorne never kill Emperor because he dies too if he does.

How on earth does that weaken Khorne...

Word Bearers I hold very little sympathy for. They misinterpreted the imperial truth and didn't realize how foolish they were or childish.

Andykp wrote:
It is in no way the chaos gods number one priority to kill the emperor. Which ever theory you prefer. I happen to prefer the starchild theory where his soul is dispersed through the warp and all that remains is the starchild. So he’s already dead give or take a few cells, so it’s a moot point. But that is why the gods don’t destroy the emperor. They can’t find him.

I dont actually think I can cope with delv and onething in the one discussion, both of us are far too literal in your interpretation of the literature. Preheresey he was no match for a major god of chaos, the only reason they didn’t just kill him was that they are limited to acting in the immaterium.

And onething, you argue that what the books say is true beyond doubt then admit that it’s all uncertain at the same time it can’t be both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Sevatar lost his vision for a week just by looking at the Emperor. Normal humans could go blind for life looking at him. The Emperor powered and directed the astronomicum while fighting in the Great Crusade. He held back Chaos and still does. He is obviously as powerful as the Chaos gods, otherwise they'd be able to kill him in the warp and not be held back from them, deamons instantly die in the beam of the astronomicum. If anything his power has been downplayed in the HH novels.

A blind person says they can see because some evangelical person puts there hands on them, a room full of people believe they can talk to the dead, a decent hypnotist could do that trick not just a god. Doubt everything U read. The more I hear about the HH books with more I think they are the worst thing to happen to the background. Even though the people behind them tell everyone not to take it as gospel too many people do.

The Emperor was the equal of the gods preheresy, he was since the DAOT, where he made the deal on Molech. They couldn't kill him because they 'couldn't', there were many daemon possessions on earth, they still couldn't kill him. Just because they couldn't, you can't just infer that the only reason they couldn't is due to the limit of their reach and just somehow assert that he wasn't a match for them, nowhere in the lore does it suggest that, apart from before the DAOT, but the Gods most likely weren't even aware of him as he was able to trick them or overpower them for their power (two sources for that) You don't know. Yeah we actually know the lore, that's why you don't like us quoting it, you just make stuff up and defend it by saying 'subtlety/nuance'. etc. Your argument here just shows that, you are just saying what you think, regardless of the lore and asserting it as fact. I like to formulate arguments in keeping with the lore, you just like to say whatever you want and if someone contradicts you using the lore you just say they are being too literal.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Sevatar lost his vision for a week just by looking at the Emperor. Normal humans could go blind for life looking at him. The Emperor powered and directed the astronomicum while fighting in the Great Crusade. He held back Chaos and still does. He is obviously as powerful as the Chaos gods, otherwise they'd be able to kill him in the warp and not be held back from them, deamons instantly die in the beam of the astronomicum. If anything his power has been downplayed in the HH novels.

Probably because after the Heresy he starts getting worshipped by a galaxy.

He's not as powerful as the Chaos Gods otherwise he'd take them out. He might be as strong as one or two and that's why they haven't killed him.

He's at least as powerful as one God but I mean he rains down ass kicking in the warp and exists in the warp so, he's on par with all the gods it seems.

By that logic the chaos gods are not as powerful as the emperor because they could just take him out.

By your logic Kaldor Dragio is on par with a chaos god

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Sevatar lost his vision for a week just by looking at the Emperor. Normal humans could go blind for life looking at him. The Emperor powered and directed the astronomicum while fighting in the Great Crusade. He held back Chaos and still does. He is obviously as powerful as the Chaos gods, otherwise they'd be able to kill him in the warp and not be held back from them, deamons instantly die in the beam of the astronomicum. If anything his power has been downplayed in the HH novels.

Probably because after the Heresy he starts getting worshipped by a galaxy.

He's not as powerful as the Chaos Gods otherwise he'd take them out. He might be as strong as one or two and that's why they haven't killed him.

He's at least as powerful as one God but I mean he rains down ass kicking in the warp and exists in the warp so, he's on par with all the gods it seems.

By that logic the chaos gods are not as powerful as the emperor because they could just take him out.

By your logic Kaldor Dragio is on par with a chaos god

Kaldor Draigo doesn't hold back the Chaos gods. I never based my argument on only that he exists in the warp, I was pointing out a logical fallacy in that reply. Plus Draigo probably hit and runs trying to find the hams, the Gods know how to get to the Emperor, just follow the massive torch light

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Sevatar lost his vision for a week just by looking at the Emperor. Normal humans could go blind for life looking at him. The Emperor powered and directed the astronomicum while fighting in the Great Crusade. He held back Chaos and still does. He is obviously as powerful as the Chaos gods, otherwise they'd be able to kill him in the warp and not be held back from them, deamons instantly die in the beam of the astronomicum. If anything his power has been downplayed in the HH novels.

Probably because after the Heresy he starts getting worshipped by a galaxy.

He's not as powerful as the Chaos Gods otherwise he'd take them out. He might be as strong as one or two and that's why they haven't killed him.

He's at least as powerful as one God but I mean he rains down ass kicking in the warp and exists in the warp so, he's on par with all the gods it seems.

By that logic the chaos gods are not as powerful as the emperor because they could just take him out.

By your logic Kaldor Dragio is on par with a chaos god

Kaldor Draigo doesn't hold back the Chaos gods. I never based my argument on only that he exists in the warp, I was pointing out a logical fallacy in that reply. Plus Draigo probably hit and runs trying to find the hams, the Gods know how to get to the Emperor, just follow the massive torch light

yeah but it's funny to argue that Dragio is more powerful then chaos

regarding the emperor though, I think there is something more then just "he so powerful" consider, the Grey Knights and Custodes who are both infused with some of his "essence" are effectively uncorruptable. And what does Chaos call him "Anathema" this is a pretty strong word, one that was historicly used to refer to an excuommunicated person, but effectively meant associated with evilk, utterly opposed etc, I've come to the conclusion that SOMETHING about the Emperor whatever it is, is the complete antithesis of chaos. So strongly opposed they actually have trouble directly approuching him. Now what this means he is... I dunno, an Nascient god of order maybe?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Sevatar lost his vision for a week just by looking at the Emperor. Normal humans could go blind for life looking at him. The Emperor powered and directed the astronomicum while fighting in the Great Crusade. He held back Chaos and still does. He is obviously as powerful as the Chaos gods, otherwise they'd be able to kill him in the warp and not be held back from them, deamons instantly die in the beam of the astronomicum. If anything his power has been downplayed in the HH novels.

Probably because after the Heresy he starts getting worshipped by a galaxy.

He's not as powerful as the Chaos Gods otherwise he'd take them out. He might be as strong as one or two and that's why they haven't killed him.

He's at least as powerful as one God but I mean he rains down ass kicking in the warp and exists in the warp so, he's on par with all the gods it seems.

By that logic the chaos gods are not as powerful as the emperor because they could just take him out.

By your logic Kaldor Dragio is on par with a chaos god

Kaldor Draigo doesn't hold back the Chaos gods. I never based my argument on only that he exists in the warp, I was pointing out a logical fallacy in that reply. Plus Draigo probably hit and runs trying to find the hams, the Gods know how to get to the Emperor, just follow the massive torch light

yeah but it's funny to argue that Dragio is more powerful then chaos

regarding the emperor though, I think there is something more then just "he so powerful" consider, the Grey Knights and Custodes who are both infused with some of his "essence" are effectively uncorruptable. And what does Chaos call him "Anathema" this is a pretty strong word, one that was historicly used to refer to an excuommunicated person, but effectively meant associated with evilk, utterly opposed etc, I've come to the conclusion that SOMETHING about the Emperor whatever it is, is the complete antithesis of chaos. So strongly opposed they actually have trouble directly approuching him. Now what this means he is... I dunno, an Nascient god of order maybe?

Thought the exact same with him being called anathema, I mean with all the threats to chaos: the tyranids, the necrons, the orks (though Khorne does love him some orks), yet they call one man the anatheme, you have to take that seriously.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Word Bearers I hold very little sympathy for. They misinterpreted the imperial truth and didn't realize how foolish they were or childish.

"Misinterpreted" is being extremely kind.

Rare pict-capture footage of the Emperor explaining the Imperial Truth to the Word Bearers:


EDIT: And I agree with Brian and Delvarus. 'Anathema' is significant. It literally means something 'offered up' to the divine and therefore untouchable by the profane. From the PoV of the Chaos Powers, 'Untouchable' or 'Incorruptible' seem like decent translations. For all that some people these days seem to want to see the Emperor as just some stupid power-hungry tyrant, it seems fairly important that even the Chaos Gods genuinely see him as something unique. A psyker as powerful as the Emperor is ought to be very easily corrupted (the Imperium generally kills Alpha-Plus psykers on sight for good reason), and yet the Chaos Gods can't touch him and daemons dissolve or go mad in his presence. The simplest explanation is that he is just utterly selfless (which does not, of course, imply 'nice', or even 'good'), so that there is nothing of Chaos (i.e. selfish emotion) in him. There's just nothing there for Chaos to get its hooks into.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Word Bearers I hold very little sympathy for. They misinterpreted the imperial truth and didn't realize how foolish they were or childish.

"Misinterpreted" is being extremely kind.

Rare pict-capture footage of the Emperor explaining the Imperial Truth to the Word Bearers:

Spoiler:

The word bearers went the way of the shoe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka9mfZbTFbk

.. Does that mean THIS is the emperor on the Golden Throne?

Delvarious, we are back here again. My argument is, and it is backed up everyone at black library and the authors and gamesworkshop, there is no lore! U use quotes to try and justify and argument that goes against the stated intent of the people who wrote those very quotes you rely on so heavily. That’s a logical fallacy. You’re argument is shot down by the very people you are using to make it. That’s why I get annoyed at your quotes, not because they “prove” me wrong but because they are irrelevant. They are one possibility. Not the only one. Even Onething sees that, I think.

What I do is consider many possibilities and like my favourites. My favourites aren’t the lore to me. They are the ones I like best. All,others are possible too.

I’ll end with this simple explanation so uncan get it. THERE IS NO LORE! It’s all made up and ambiguous.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Word Bearers I hold very little sympathy for. They misinterpreted the imperial truth and didn't realize how foolish they were or childish.

"Misinterpreted" is being extremely kind.

Rare pict-capture footage of the Emperor explaining the Imperial Truth to the Word Bearers:

Spoiler:

EDIT: And I agree with Brian and Delvarus. 'Anathema' is significant. It literally means something 'offered up' to the divine and therefore untouchable by the profane. From the PoV of the Chaos Powers, 'Untouchable' or 'Incorruptible' seem like decent translations. For all that some people these days seem to want to see the Emperor as just some stupid power-hungry tyrant, it seems fairly important that even the Chaos Gods genuinely see him as something unique. A psyker as powerful as the Emperor is ought to be very easily corrupted (the Imperium generally kills Alpha-Plus psykers on sight for good reason), and yet the Chaos Gods can't touch him and daemons dissolve or go mad in his presence. The simplest explanation is that he is just utterly selfless (which does not, of course, imply 'nice', or even 'good'), so that there is nothing of Chaos (i.e. selfish emotion) in him. There's just nothing there for Chaos to get its hooks into.

I wonder if this explains why he was able to enter the realm of chaos and leave again, horus had the will of the chaos gods backing him, he still had to fight while in there as chaos is gonna chaos, but the emperor didn’t even have that.

I also find it interesting that the concept of the emperor being utterly selfless, as you say this doesn’t make him “nice”.

Andykp wrote:
Delvarious, we are back here again. My argument is, and it is backed up everyone at black library and the authors and gamesworkshop, there is no lore! U use quotes to try and justify and argument that goes against the stated intent of the people who wrote those very quotes you rely on so heavily. That’s a logical fallacy. You’re argument is shot down by the very people you are using to make it. That’s why I get annoyed at your quotes, not because they “prove” me wrong but because they are irrelevant. They are one possibility. Not the only one. Even Onething sees that, I think.

What I do is consider many possibilities and like my favourites. My favourites aren’t the lore to me. They are the ones I like best. All,others are possible too.

I’ll end with this simple explanation so uncan get it. THERE IS NO LORE! It’s all made up and ambiguous.

There is lore that the Emperor got his powers from Molech so you are wrong that he was not a match for the gods pre-heresy. There is no lore on your part, you are just making stuff up. No where in the lore does it state that the Emperor was weaker preheresy, you just assume he is. Plus he could power the astronomicum and direct it while fighting in the great crusade, now on the throne he needs 10,000 psykers a day to power and direct it and a thousand to sustain his body. Now you just continue your normal speel of 'I hate quotes.' Yet in your next reply you will just repeat there is no lore and ignore all the points that show you are wrong or say 'nuance' 'read between the lines' etc. You always do this.

"That’s why I get annoyed at your quotes, not because they “prove” me wrong but because they are irrelevant. They are one possibility. Not the only one. Even Onething sees that, I think." Like I've said multiple times, show me a quote where they are irrelevant. Again there is lore against what you said. You are wrong to think the Emperor was weaker pre-heresy even though all the lore contradicts that.

Andykp wrote:
Delvarious, we are back here again. My argument is, and it is backed up everyone at black library and the authors and gamesworkshop, there is no lore! U use quotes to try and justify and argument that goes against the stated intent of the people who wrote those very quotes you rely on so heavily. That’s a logical fallacy. You’re argument is shot down by the very people you are using to make it. That’s why I get annoyed at your quotes, not because they “prove” me wrong but because they are irrelevant. They are one possibility. Not the only one. Even Onething sees that, I think.

What I do is consider many possibilities and like my favourites. My favourites aren’t the lore to me. They are the ones I like best. All,others are possible too.

I’ll end with this simple explanation so uncan get it. THERE IS NO LORE! It’s all made up and ambiguous.

If there is no lore, at all ever, why bother going to a lore forum man?

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'll make it simple for you. Khorne kill Emperor. Khorne weakened by fight. Other gods kill Khorne. So Khorne never kill Emperor because he dies too if he does.

How on earth does that weaken Khorne...

You think killing another god is easy?

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'll make it simple for you. Khorne kill Emperor. Khorne weakened by fight. Other gods kill Khorne. So Khorne never kill Emperor because he dies too if he does.

How on earth does that weaken Khorne...

You think killing another god is easy?

That's not what I asked.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'll make it simple for you. Khorne kill Emperor. Khorne weakened by fight. Other gods kill Khorne. So Khorne never kill Emperor because he dies too if he does.

How on earth does that weaken Khorne...

You think killing another god is easy?

That's not what I asked.

It does answer it. Killing another god is bound to expend some level of power. Therefore killing the Emperor would weaken whoever does it. Unless you want to argue that the Emperor is a little weakling? This isn't hard.

BrianDavion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Delvarious, we are back here again. My argument is, and it is backed up everyone at black library and the authors and gamesworkshop, there is no lore! U use quotes to try and justify and argument that goes against the stated intent of the people who wrote those very quotes you rely on so heavily. That’s a logical fallacy. You’re argument is shot down by the very people you are using to make it. That’s why I get annoyed at your quotes, not because they “prove” me wrong but because they are irrelevant. They are one possibility. Not the only one. Even Onething sees that, I think.

What I do is consider many possibilities and like my favourites. My favourites aren’t the lore to me. They are the ones I like best. All,others are possible too.

I’ll end with this simple explanation so uncan get it. THERE IS NO LORE! It’s all made up and ambiguous.

If there is no lore, at all ever, why bother going to a lore forum man?

It’s not a lore forum it’s a background forum. There is a back ground full of different mysteries and myths, theories and conspiracies. A series of books has told a story but all involved have said it isn’t a diffinative story. It’s a version of events. I’m here to discuss the ideas people have. And do. I have heard some great ideas on here but one or two individuals who have missed the point above keep shooting people down and saying they are wrong. If we aren’t carful this forum could become a space where only the people who buy into the black library HH version of events hang out and we will have lost a lot of the magic from the setting.

I could quote all sorts of sources for some of the theories I prefer but I would be told that they are too old or not canon like the HH books. So I don’t bother. I like to discuss things people have seen things in the stories that may require a diferent look what’s happened. I personally feel that ,thanks to the book series and forgeworlds work, too much emphasis is put on the HH. It was massive and integral to the state of the imperium but has little bearing on the other races in the galaxy. ORKS don’t care, eldar would pos see it as dangerous monkey meddling with stuff beyond their ken and the necrons were asleep. To chaos it was one play in a very long game.

Del I haven’t changed your arguemnet, you just quote books as fact that have been pointed out to you aren’t fact by the publishers and authors own admissions. It doesn’t matter what any one other than the blacklibrary authors say i their stories you won’t accept. I personally like to consider all theories, like the slave code stuff above, and the one where the emperor planned the heresey. The stories coming from black library don’t interest me as they present a very simplistic and dull. Also I thought we all told you we didn’t know what happened at moloch? I’m sure we have had that discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'll make it simple for you. Khorne kill Emperor. Khorne weakened by fight. Other gods kill Khorne. So Khorne never kill Emperor because he dies too if he does.

How on earth does that weaken Khorne...

You think killing another god is easy?

That's not what I asked.

It does answer it. Killing another god is bound to expend some level of power. Therefore killing the Emperor would weaken whoever does it. Unless you want to argue that the Emperor is a little weakling? This isn't hard.

Horus killed the emperor and he wasn’t a god.

Andykp wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Delvarious, we are back here again. My argument is, and it is backed up everyone at black library and the authors and gamesworkshop, there is no lore! U use quotes to try and justify and argument that goes against the stated intent of the people who wrote those very quotes you rely on so heavily. That’s a logical fallacy. You’re argument is shot down by the very people you are using to make it. That’s why I get annoyed at your quotes, not because they “prove” me wrong but because they are irrelevant. They are one possibility. Not the only one. Even Onething sees that, I think.

What I do is consider many possibilities and like my favourites. My favourites aren’t the lore to me. They are the ones I like best. All,others are possible too.

I’ll end with this simple explanation so uncan get it. THERE IS NO LORE! It’s all made up and ambiguous.

If there is no lore, at all ever, why bother going to a lore forum man?

It’s not a lore forum it’s a background forum. There is a back ground full of different mysteries and myths, theories and conspiracies. A series of books has told a story but all involved have said it isn’t a diffinative story. It’s a version of events. I’m here to discuss the ideas people have. And do. I have heard some great ideas on here but one or two individuals who have missed the point above keep shooting people down and saying they are wrong. If we aren’t carful this forum could become a space where only the people who buy into the black library HH version of events hang out and we will have lost a lot of the magic from the setting.

I could quote all sorts of sources for some of the theories I prefer but I would be told that they are too old or not canon like the HH books. So I don’t bother. I like to discuss things people have seen things in the stories that may require a diferent look what’s happened. I personally feel that ,thanks to the book series and forgeworlds work, too much emphasis is put on the HH. It was massive and integral to the state of the imperium but has little bearing on the other races in the galaxy. ORKS don’t care, eldar would pos see it as dangerous monkey meddling with stuff beyond their ken and the necrons were asleep. To chaos it was one play in a very long game.

Del I haven’t changed your arguemnet, you just quote books as fact that have been pointed out to you aren’t fact by the publishers and authors own admissions. It doesn’t matter what any one other than the blacklibrary authors say i their stories you won’t accept. I personally like to consider all theories, like the slave code stuff above, and the one where the emperor planned the heresey. The stories coming from black library don’t interest me as they present a very simplistic and dull. Also I thought we all told you we didn’t know what happened at moloch? I’m sure we have had that discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'll make it simple for you. Khorne kill Emperor. Khorne weakened by fight. Other gods kill Khorne. So Khorne never kill Emperor because he dies too if he does.

How on earth does that weaken Khorne...

You think killing another god is easy?

That's not what I asked.

It does answer it. Killing another god is bound to expend some level of power. Therefore killing the Emperor would weaken whoever does it. Unless you want to argue that the Emperor is a little weakling? This isn't hard.

Horus killed the emperor and he wasn’t a god.

He was made a god or godlike depending on your take after he visited Molech. He got powers there that made him a match for the Emperor.

I don't quote books as facts, I quote factual claims/incidents in books as fact. You use the 'I like to discus the nuance.' everytime you are proven wrong. There are factual claims in fiction, you pretend there isn't so you can get out of being wrong. If you can't understand that some things in a fictional book are expressed as facts, there is literally no point in discussing anything with you other than points in the books where it is implicit. You were all wrong about Molech, I said Horus got powers there though we don't know exactly what those powers were. You all contradicted that, then forgot you did and ended up agreeing with my original statement, it was very comical. Anyone can read that thread, I encourage anyone reading this to have a read.

Andykp wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Delvarious, we are back here again. My argument is, and it is backed up everyone at black library and the authors and gamesworkshop, there is no lore! U use quotes to try and justify and argument that goes against the stated intent of the people who wrote those very quotes you rely on so heavily. That’s a logical fallacy. You’re argument is shot down by the very people you are using to make it. That’s why I get annoyed at your quotes, not because they “prove” me wrong but because they are irrelevant. They are one possibility. Not the only one. Even Onething sees that, I think.

What I do is consider many possibilities and like my favourites. My favourites aren’t the lore to me. They are the ones I like best. All,others are possible too.

I’ll end with this simple explanation so uncan get it. THERE IS NO LORE! It’s all made up and ambiguous.

If there is no lore, at all ever, why bother going to a lore forum man?

It’s not a lore forum it’s a background forum. There is a back ground full of different mysteries and myths, theories and conspiracies. A series of books has told a story but all involved have said it isn’t a diffinative story. It’s a version of events. I’m here to discuss the ideas people have. And do. I have heard some great ideas on here but one or two individuals who have missed the point above keep shooting people down and saying they are wrong. If we aren’t carful this forum could become a space where only the people who buy into the black library HH version of events hang out and we will have lost a lot of the magic from the setting.

I could quote all sorts of sources for some of the theories I prefer but I would be told that they are too old or not canon like the HH books. So I don’t bother. I like to discuss things people have seen things in the stories that may require a diferent look what’s happened. I personally feel that ,thanks to the book series and forgeworlds work, too much emphasis is put on the HH. It was massive and integral to the state of the imperium but has little bearing on the other races in the galaxy. ORKS don’t care, eldar would pos see it as dangerous monkey meddling with stuff beyond their ken and the necrons were asleep. To chaos it was one play in a very long game.

Del I haven’t changed your arguemnet, you just quote books as fact that have been pointed out to you aren’t fact by the publishers and authors own admissions. It doesn’t matter what any one other than the blacklibrary authors say i their stories you won’t accept. I personally like to consider all theories, like the slave code stuff above, and the one where the emperor planned the heresey. The stories coming from black library don’t interest me as they present a very simplistic and dull. Also I thought we all told you we didn’t know what happened at moloch? I’m sure we have had that discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'll make it simple for you. Khorne kill Emperor. Khorne weakened by fight. Other gods kill Khorne. So Khorne never kill Emperor because he dies too if he does.

How on earth does that weaken Khorne...

You think killing another god is easy?

That's not what I asked.

It does answer it. Killing another god is bound to expend some level of power. Therefore killing the Emperor would weaken whoever does it. Unless you want to argue that the Emperor is a little weakling? This isn't hard.

Horus killed the emperor and he wasn’t a god.

He didn't do a very thorough job considering the Emperor's alive. Besides he was filled with the power of 4 gods at the time.