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Also, I don't think MCU Scarlet Witch has the same power set as Marvel Comics Scarlet Witch.
Though to be fair, Marvel Comics Scarlet Witch is all over the place.
She is a reality warper. That is pretty much all she needs. From there they can just beef up her power levels under "distress". Hell, that is if she even needs to be powered up to do it. She almost shattered the reality stone. If she managed to get her hands on it in Avengers 4, oh boy. She would be like Strange with the Time Stone.
I am not saying it is what they would do or how they should do it. But with the current MCU the way it is, this is the route that makes the most sense to me.
Galef wrote: [Spiderman gets a pass because he was too young. But unless you make all the X-men brand new to the scene (which completely takes out Xavier and Magneto), the only believeable way to introduce them is to have them be a part of there own separate universe.
Mutants could just have been super rare until recent times. Having a explosion in the mutant population and the majority of the team(and other mutants) about the same age in the MCU as Spiderman would actually line up with the comics fairly well.
Silly question, but are you a part of the X-Men writing team? Or on any film writing team?
Because that would be pretty cool.
If not, then why do you feel obligated to make peeps feel anything while watching movies.
X-Men has clearly been about diversity and inclusion since 1975, arguing against it in X-Men seems to miss the point of X-Men.
The argument that diversity has gone too far in Super Hero movies may have its place, but X-Men is certainly not it.
I have zero issues with diversity per say, so long as there is a valid reason for it. What I can't stand is washing over a character's race only for the simple reason of being diverse. Could Wolverine be black? Sure. But why? Is the color of the skin important? Or the characteristics of that character? If its the character, then the color of the skin is unimportant right? Could be played by an actor of any color. Well not so fast. How about if we bring in gender in too? How about casting Wolverine as a non-gender specific androgynous Pakistani actress who has yet to decide what her actual gender is going to be? He/she would not represent the character of Logan we have grown attached to. There very well may be a part that this Pakistani actor/actress could play but it shouldn't be Logan.
The reason most of the time this doesn't work is because you typically can't bring in race without a whole host of social issues around it. Whether being sensitive to that race's history or modern community. And also by doing so, it washes over the original story of the character itself. The Fantastic Four reboot is an example of that. Its a lame movie anyway, but why add the 'brotha from a different motha' tweak? Its only there to make the film look more diverse and sell tickets. So for me that's crap. Some will think it adds a new element to the story but if you just focus on the story the race shouldn't matter - oh but it sure seems to.
At least in Marvel's MCU case, they tend to sell out to that by just including diverse locations or actors/actresses from regions from where the movies tend to do well anyway, like including Helen Cho. This appeases the South Korean movie goers. Don't think these things aren't done on purpose. Its just like product placement. Helen Cho and her company could have been anyone and anywhere in the world, and 20 years ago it would have just been somewhere in the US, as most Americans can't pick out South Korea on a map. But as Marvel is a global brand now and viewers want to see things they can relate to in the films they are watching. So while I can roll my eyes over the reason Kim Soo-hyun has been cast, its not as big of a deal if she were cast as Black Widow for example.
I know that as film merchandises get bigger and more international people are going to ask, 'OK when am I going to see an Indonesian in one of these films?' or even better 'I am disappointed that Marvel has yet to cast an Indonesian person in their movies', in which, Marvel will get to work in dotting that i and crossing that t. The writers will stick something Indonesian in there to make everyone feel like they are part of the world.
What I have issue with is simply replacing a traditional character's identity with another for the sake of appearing diverse, or worse, politically correct. There is a reason these characters have been the way they have for decades now, leave them be. If you want to add diversity, make a new character with a specific race in mind and cast accordingly. If that seems too forced, and race shouldn't matter, then quit complaining how everything looks too white.
Imagine if a film, like Straight Outta Compton (even this is based on actual events just bare with me here), cast members of different races to play Ice Cube and Dr Dre: the African American community would be in an uproar. And some of it would be because how would those people of other races 'really understand how blacks grow up in LA'? And 'what is wrong with a black man playing the role of a black character?' I am not kidding this is would be some of the crap that would be said. There is an expectation that these guys would be represented a certain way, and not casting someone of Mongolian decent to play Eazy-E. Does race matter? It sure seems to. And in many cases, its not just the race that matters, but being able to understand what being that race feels like.
which is ridiculous, then the opposite holds true as well. And who knows when that strong, independent androgynous actress gets the part of Logan, we'll all be able to applaud and pat ourselves on the back for living in a pretend world where everyone can be everything, which is really what its about. And you can certainly pursue those ideas, but just keep in mind what made those characters cherished to begin with, and leave them be. If you want to add some diversity, make up some new characters.
EDIT: Btw my favorite X-Men team was the second one with Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Banshee, and so on. I can't stand many of the original X-Men, but I think it would be cool for Marvel to pay respect to the characters that started it all.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/01 20:17:06
The second team where there was literally not a single American on the team (except John Proudstar, aka Thunderbird, who was NATIVE American). You had a German monk with blue skin, a Russian farmer, an Irish Interpol agent, a Canadian, a Japanese guy, and an African “goddess”. And that WAS the best damn X-team. Were 3 of them white? Yes. Technically less than half the team. The other four were Asian, African, blue skinned, and Native American (red-skinned). That second team was very diverse; especially for the times. I would definitely watch an X-movie with that team running the show.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
Hard pass. Duplicating the original team would be a problem on many levels (not least being four white males and the token girl they're all competing over- reading the originals with the mainstream 60s sensibilities is really cringeworthy).
Correct. Completely forgot how we now have to bend over backwards to make peeps feel included by making sure everyone can see their color of skin in a movie.
But if we must: Xavier can be black (I’m thinking Morgan Freeman), Cyclops can be Hispanic, Angel can be desi, Jean Grey Chinese, iceman Native American, but not too northern American ~ it would be too cliche to make him Inuit, but I would be cool with it.
Beast would have to be white though. Lord knows all of the others races would be offended to find he has been cast in their color (“I am highly offended and disappointed Marvel chose to cast a man of African American decent to play the Beast, who’s connotation refers to an animal-like man who is similar to an ape”. White peeps roll better with that kind of thing.
What is the opposite of white-washing? Or is it racist just to ask that?
As far as killing off Iceman, I was just thinking if anyone had to die, he’s my least favorite in the history of comics.
Now I'm picturing the X-men as a Sense8 movie... which I'm quite happy with. Thank you. Dani Pudi for Professor X!
Or get weird- do X-Men, Savage lands.... with the Rock as Professor X, and Kevin Hart as Cyclops. It would make for an awesome movie, but it would take decades for the franchise to recover.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
Bran Dawri wrote: Having the "unsnap" actually be a merger of the two universes is probably the best way to do it IMO
You mean using the unsnap to merge the Fox X-men, a series which cares nothing for continuity (or logic in some cases), with the MCU?
Well that'd be one way to poison a 10+ year legacy of films.
Erm, not quite. I meant a merger of two separate universes within the Marvel Movie-multiverse, one of which has mutants and the X-men, to be able to bring the X-men franchise into the marvelverse.
The X-men have essentially been about an analogy for civil rights since literally the beginning. Unless you're talking about "the PC crowd" that needs to be appeased as being from 1968-1975, you're really just virtue signaling and it's lame.
I would agree that the 1975 lineup was probably my favorite:
but I do have a special place in my heart for the 1991 Jim Lee lineup:
Also kinda disappointed they never found a way to work in Dazzler. I mean, the disco thing is a little dated but maybe they can do EDM or something.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/02 22:04:13
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
I have zero issues with diversity per say, so long as there is a valid reason for it. What I can't stand is washing over a character's race only for the simple reason of being diverse. Could Wolverine be black? Sure. But why? Is the color of the skin important? Or the characteristics of that character? If its the character, then the color of the skin is unimportant right? Could be played by an actor of any color. Well not so fast. How about if we bring in gender in too? How about casting Wolverine as a non-gender specific androgynous Pakistani actress who has yet to decide what her actual gender is going to be? He/she would not represent the character of Logan we have grown attached to. There very well may be a part that this Pakistani actor/actress could play but it shouldn't be Logan.
The reason most of the time this doesn't work is because you typically can't bring in race without a whole host of social issues around it. Whether being sensitive to that race's history or modern community. And also by doing so, it washes over the original story of the character itself. The Fantastic Four reboot is an example of that. Its a lame movie anyway, but why add the 'brotha from a different motha' tweak? Its only there to make the film look more diverse and sell tickets. So for me that's crap. Some will think it adds a new element to the story but if you just focus on the story the race shouldn't matter - oh but it sure seems to.
At least in Marvel's MCU case, they tend to sell out to that by just including diverse locations or actors/actresses from regions from where the movies tend to do well anyway, like including Helen Cho. This appeases the South Korean movie goers. Don't think these things aren't done on purpose. Its just like product placement. Helen Cho and her company could have been anyone and anywhere in the world, and 20 years ago it would have just been somewhere in the US, as most Americans can't pick out South Korea on a map. But as Marvel is a global brand now and viewers want to see things they can relate to in the films they are watching. So while I can roll my eyes over the reason Kim Soo-hyun has been cast, its not as big of a deal if she were cast as Black Widow for example.
I know that as film merchandises get bigger and more international people are going to ask, 'OK when am I going to see an Indonesian in one of these films?' or even better 'I am disappointed that Marvel has yet to cast an Indonesian person in their movies', in which, Marvel will get to work in dotting that i and crossing that t. The writers will stick something Indonesian in there to make everyone feel like they are part of the world.
What I have issue with is simply replacing a traditional character's identity with another for the sake of appearing diverse, or worse, politically correct. There is a reason these characters have been the way they have for decades now, leave them be. If you want to add diversity, make a new character with a specific race in mind and cast accordingly. If that seems too forced, and race shouldn't matter, then quit complaining how everything looks too white.
Imagine if a film, like Straight Outta Compton (even this is based on actual events just bare with me here), cast members of different races to play Ice Cube and Dr Dre: the African American community would be in an uproar. And some of it would be because how would those people of other races 'really understand how blacks grow up in LA'? And 'what is wrong with a black man playing the role of a black character?' I am not kidding this is would be some of the crap that would be said. There is an expectation that these guys would be represented a certain way, and not casting someone of Mongolian decent to play Eazy-E. Does race matter? It sure seems to. And in many cases, its not just the race that matters, but being able to understand what being that race feels like.
which is ridiculous, then the opposite holds true as well. And who knows when that strong, independent androgynous actress gets the part of Logan, we'll all be able to applaud and pat ourselves on the back for living in a pretend world where everyone can be everything, which is really what its about. And you can certainly pursue those ideas, but just keep in mind what made those characters cherished to begin with, and leave them be. If you want to add some diversity, make up some new characters.
EDIT: Btw my favorite X-Men team was the second one with Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Banshee, and so on. I can't stand many of the original X-Men, but I think it would be cool for Marvel to pay respect to the characters that started it all.
Okay, sounds like you dislike bad writing, I also dislike bad writing.
You dislike characters being misrepresented, I also dislike this.
Take Logan for example, Hugh Jackman plays a great Wolverine, but he is not really short, hairy or even ugly enough to be an honest translation IMO. I would love to see a short hairy obnoxious Wolverine, but I doubt I would every get it. I am not calling out the desperate people who want to get their sexy Logan fix, it is just what sells and I am lucky that Jackman does a great Wolverine even though it makes for a poorer X-Men. I think Wolverines ethnicity is irrelevant as long as he stays Canadian.
Poor, poor Cyclops, the movies are never nice to him. Professor X with hair is annoying too.
Your 'Straight outa Compton' example does sound annoying, but it is pure hyperbolic speculation. Non-Germans play Germans in films all the time (especially WW2 movies), if the Mongols made a good film I am sure they would be forgive.
If the X-Men are taken out of the decade they were originally written for then they need to be updated to fit their new decade.This IMO give the writer room to change gender or ethnicity as well. If the story about the original team is set in the 60's then I agree keep them the same, but it all should be about context.
I think identity politics is an easy way to drive clicks, I imagine more through generating outrage then actual genuine popular support.
X-Men has always been about identity politics, and should reflect the situation of the times they are set in. I just hope the movies are good enough.
I'm really not interested in this at all. Sophie Turner isn't a good enough actor to lead a movie and I'm getting really tired of Magneto's character arc, which feels more like a character circle at this point.
I was much more interested in New Mutants, but seeing as it's been pushed back by more than a year for reshoots, it will probably either get scrapped when Marvel take over, or end up being terrible
Jean Grey has been my least favorite X character ever since I could read. I just have literally no interest in seeing a story centered on that character. In fact, I cheer every time they kill her off. And it's been a LOT.
Just Tony wrote: Jean Grey has been my least favorite X character ever since I could read. I just have literally no interest in seeing a story centered on that character. In fact, I cheer every time they kill her off. And it's been a LOT.
Jean Grey is one of those characters who is relatively subtle and thus more challenging for a writer to do than someone like Wolverine or Gambit or Emma Frost who have very evident personality traits and who pretty much write themselves. Most writers can't do her well: Jean is feminine but has bit of a mean edge and surprisingly big ego when you dig deep enough. Claremont wrote great Jean, Morrison's take was good too, her Jean was bit more extreme and slightly mad. Most X-Men writers however write her as this boring super-compassionate female heroine and Phoenix persona as something completely separate from her.
Dark Phoenix saga is one of the greatest comic book story arcs ever, not because of some epic ending or overwhelming theme, but mostly because of all the little things which Claremont and Byrne patiently wrote over many issues as they built up her rise and eventual fall. This is something which is nearly impossible to capture in movie setting. First X-Men trilogy kinda tried, but the people who did the last movie had no clue about the character or really, well, anything. Also while Famke Janssen did great as Jean (down to being almost dead-in lookalike of comics Jean), she was just written as too nice and soft.
Joss Whedon copied the concept in Buffy, where he used several seasons to build up Willow storyline until eventually she became so powerful that she took over all the other storylines - just like Phoenix.
Anyway, re: the trailer, well it was all over the place and for sure did not spoil us anything. I couldn't tell anything what was going on or why. Maybe that is for the better. I do think Sophie Turner has a chance of pulling the character off, in Game of Thrones she has shown how Sansa can be cold and chilling and that's just what we need from Phoenix.
StygianBeach wrote: X-Men has clearly been about diversity and inclusion since 1975, arguing against it in X-Men seems to miss the point of X-Men.
The argument that diversity has gone too far in Super Hero movies may have its place, but X-Men is certainly not it.
I've been reading a collection of X-Men from the relaunch onwards, where the title really started to take off. The "political correctness gone mad!" crowd would have blown a gasket if it was released now--I mean, you've got a Japanese guy, a Native American and an Egyptian woman in the new lineup of a team that launched with an 80% white male cast? Where will the madness end?
(even if the Japanese guy left in a huff after one mission, and the Native American guy died shortly afterwards)
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
Certainly a big part of the problem with adapting the Dark Phoenix storyline is that the focus is always on the Dark Phoenix part of it when everything great about the story is what came before. Every adaptation has been in a rush to get to the fetish gear, which is about the point where the whole thing starts going down hill. It doesn't help that people expect the cosmic entity retcon from the beginning these days, which in no way is part of the original story's appeal.
Agreed. The appeal of the Dark Phoenix was the backstory. It took years of Jean being a relatively weak character, then sacrificing herself... only to survive and become stronger than ever. Then there's the period of everyone coping with her newfound power... including her own coping. And then there was the fall, brought on by an old villain teamed up with a new threat.
It's not a story that can be told quickly, if you're going to do it right. And yes, probably far better suited for a T.V. show than a movie franchise.
pix3lboy wrote: I was much more interested in New Mutants, but seeing as it's been pushed back by more than a year for reshoots, it will probably either get scrapped when Marvel take over, or end up being terrible
This is where I really hope Marvel does them justice and brings them into the MCU. Leave the X-Men as slightly older, and use kids for the New Mutants.
I loved the New Mutants first run in the comics. I was torn up when Beyonder slaughtered them all. Now of course they came back, but just the actual act of him killing everyone and their last stand really got to me.
Its actually giving me goosebumps remembering it. Prob kinda 'whatever' by today's standards but I hadn't seen anything like that in those days. A team member here or there, sure, but the whole team? Not that I know of. Legendary last stand (even if it wasn't). Here's a recap of the battle:
Spoiler:
The Mansion:
Danie is giving Sam a ride on Brightwing and they are discussing their separate plans for Thanksgiving. They are currently soaring above the mansion grounds. Sam says that he will be heading home for Thanksgiving. Dani says she will miss the first Thanksgiving with her family since she was a kid. Silently she regrets not telling her mother how much she loves her while she was speaking to her mom on the phone last night.
Suddenly, they both observe a flash of light from the mansion grounds. The flash temporarily blinds Sam. Dani tells him that someone has materialized in front of the mansion. Silently Dani realizes that the confrontation she has dreamed of is about to happen. She still feels that there is no need for a fight as she stills believes reason to be possible.
Inside the mansion:
The New Mutants are also responding to the flash of light. Everyone is in uniform except Amara who is in he long white Roman-style gown. Warlock grabs Amara in alarm and attempts to hide behind her. Amara assures Warlock that whatever the danger is, the team can definitely handle it. Warlock screams n fear for his life as the mansion doors are swung open by the force that has just appeared outside.
On the grounds of the mansion the team sees an all too familiar figure. As one they say the name "Beyonder". The figure voices agreement with the team. He states that his purpose is too understand the meaning of his own existence. He states that he offered them a chance to be at peace with all creation and they refused his offer. The team on the ground whispers to each other that they have bad feelings about this visit from the Beyonder. Rahne thinks he has come to punish them for their refusal.
Meanwhile in the air, Sam asks Dani if she is scared. Dani says she is scared, but she will never let the Beyonder see her true feelings.
On the ground, Illyana sates that she was the chosen messenger. She tells the Beyonder that if anyone is at fault she is. She says that the others should be spared and she should pay the price for denial.
The team screams Illyanas name as the Beyonder accepts her sacrifice. Amara changes to Magma and unloads her full force on the Beyonder. The Beyonder takes to the sky and tells Magma that her flames cannot hurt him as he is too powerful. Sam leaps into the air from Brightwinds’ back and joins the battle by hitting the Beyonder with the full force of his power. Sam sees the Beyonder still standing and makes another attempt at him. The Beyonder responds by backhanding Sam and sending him hurdling away, through the mansion and into the pool.
Dani sees that Sam is protected by his power and despite the rough landing he is ok. She then decides to use her power to pull the Beyonders’ greatest fear from his mind and make this fear his reality. Dani screams, grabs her head, and falls from Brightwinds back the ground below.
Dani experiences the Beyonders’ reality as no other has. She sees him as being as much afraid of life as of dying. Yet, interwoven with the fabric and existence of the universe, while at the same time being the greatest threat to the life of the same universe.
Karma rushes to the fallen body of her friend and yells at the Beyonder to release Dani before he kills her. The Beyonder states that Dani's death is his intention. Karma puts her whole heart and soul into an attempt to possess this powerful being. Unfortunately, her power is reflected back at her with its force magnified so much that her mind is instantly destroyed.
On the ground, Dani regains consciousness only to have Rahne tell her that Karma is dead. She silently fears that her visions are coming to pass. Rahne tells Dani that there is no more they can do against this powerful being. Magma overhears this conversation and continues the fight by pulling granite stones from the ground to crush her enemy. However, her effort is not enough. The Beyonder shatters the mountains of stone as effortlessly as he has shattered Karma's mind. Warlock wants to flee this being, but instead stays to fight. The Beyonder reminds him of his dead Sire Magus because he has injured Warlock's friends. Warlock hits the Beyonder with full force while remembering the star Magus destroyed when he was after Warlock. The Beyonder is flung to the ground. Magma and Cannonball join forces with their teammate and keep after the Beyonder until he ceases to move.
Cannon ball tells Magma that he believes they have killed the Beyonder. Magma says that he got what he deserved. She reminds him that the Beyonder was attempting to kill them too. Still Sam is not happy and he begins to cry. For the home and friends he has lost to this battle. Dani tells him to save his tears as she does not believe the battle is over with quiet yet. She reminds her teammates that they are kids, human kids, despite their powers and they Beyonder is anything but human. She reminds her friends of the fight she had last winter with the Demon Bear. Despite her arrows, she did not kill the bear.
The shocked team hear the Beyonders voice congratulating Dani on her perceptive thinking. They turn to see the Beyonder rise unhurt from the ground into the sky once more. He tells them that he has endured everything they could throw at him. And now, its his turn to fight back. A pit opens up underneath Amara and she falls. She has suddenly lost her ability to control the earth around her. Cannonball goes in after her and catches her. However, the pit has sealed itself and despite his blasts and invulnerability the walls of the pit are closing in on them. Dani silently wonders if the Beyonder was sent to humble them, teach them their true place in the scheme of life.
Warlock scans for his friends underground but can get no life readings. Rahne cries out their names in shock. The Beyonder turns his power on Warlock next. Doug, seeing Warlock nearly killed, goes to offer his life-force so that Warlock can reconstitute his body and survive this experience. Warlock refuses his friends help but Doug reminds him that the ultimate choice belongs to Doug, himself. Rahne stands nearby and silently prays for her friends to be strong and fight. In reality, she appears to be in shock and repeating the words "I'm sorry".
Dani stands with her head buried into Brightwnds side. She realizes that to the Beyonder they are just enemies to be dealt with as the Cheyenne were in the movie she watched with her friends earlier this evening. The Beyonder turns to her and asks her why she does not flee.
Dani answers him by stating that he is so powerful he could have destroyed them at any time. Yet he chose to play with them. She asks him if he was trying to learn something new about being human? She states that she wants to live just as much as her ancestors did, but realizes that her life, and the lives of her friends, ultimately mean nothing to a being as powerful as he is. The Beyonder tells her that there is a purpose to everything he does and he is very sorry that she is unable to understand this. Dani tells the Beyonder that what he is doing is wrong. The Beyonder tells her that it is his job to cleanse the world, which will restore peace and order to his existence. Dani reminds him that she and her friends have done him no harm. The Beyonder replies that they have done more harm then they can be aware of. Therefore, he will no longer tolerate their existence but will envy their eternal serenity instead.
Dani chooses this moment to say goodbye to her loved ones. She believes this is a good day for her to join Black Eagle. The Beyonder states that he has no choice and with a wave of his hand Dani and Brightwind tumble from the sky.
With a wave of the Beyonder’s hand, Dani's parents forget they had a daughter, Roberto forgets about his friends, and a virgin shoreline can be seen around Breakstone Lake. It is as if Professor Xavier and his school had never existed.
And I loved Warlock too. I used to draw that guy all the time.
I really think the mid 80s was an awesome time in comics. I stopped reading them shortly after and nothing I have heard here and there makes me feel like I am missing out on anything.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/09 14:38:09
Would love to See Illyana in the MCU (*) - lots of fun versions of her - even if you include the ones that Excaliber met....
Isn't the New Mutants film in development hell?
(*) Away from any chance of sharing the screen with Deadpool - hate that character.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Lance845 wrote: Marvel could build to dark pheonix as the next infinity war. We need years to grow with the characters.
I agree. Dark Phoenix would be much better than some of the X-Men alternatives. I am hoping they ease in to the X-Men though and focus on the F4 first. I would really like to see the Avengers transition in to a F4 block of movies which then transitions in to an X-Men block of movies.
I'm concerned, yeah. I mean, I'm one of the (apparently few) that like Sansa, especially in later seasons but, yeah, still worried about the film. I'm hoping for the best though.
It still feels like they SHOULD be able to do a workable Dark Phoenix film, without bringing in the Shiar at the end.
Here's how I would pitch it.
Opening scene: It turns out, Emma Frost isn't dead after all, she faked her death and is in hiding. However, she and the resurgant Hellfire Club are trying to steal the newly uncovered M'kraan Crystal. It activates with Jean holding it and, apparently, merges with her, giving her powers to protect the team from certain death (Intentional callback to X-2). The M'kraan Crystal is nowhere to be found after the flameshield.
Cue the "sexual awakening" / lovestory arc with Jean and Scott.
Jean eventually goes crazy, goes full on Dark Phoenix, beats up the X-Men, runs off.
Go to a scene in, say, Africa, where the Dark Phoenix kills a village worth of people.
Gaining control of the Phoenix again, Jean returns to the X-Men, calling herself a monster and so on. The X-Men rally around her because Family.
Except, Mystique can't. She leaves, returns to Magneto, who has been forming the Brotherhood of Mutants.
Essentially, the Brotherhood replace the Shiar in the original story.
"Don't you understand, Charles, I'm doing what you always wanted. I'm saving the world. You're too close to this, she's a monster. And I've seen what happens when monsters win. I won't let it happen again."
The X-Men then get completely beat down by the Brotherhood.
There's only Scott and Jean still standing and fighting. And, Jean tells Scott she loves him, she loves all of them, they're her Family and now it's time for her to protect them, like they've fallen protecting her.
And... She kills herself.
Magneto: "I'm sorry, Charles, but it's for the best."
Charles: "Get out. She was like my daughter."
Mystique hangs back, looking at Charles, about to approach. He glares at her, she turns away, leaving with Magneto.
Roll credits.
Post credits: Jean is lying 'in state' at the funeral home. There's an eerie, terrifying orange glow surrounding the open casket, a literal Phoenix flies out of it, smashing through the stained glass windows, the bars falling to form an 'X' shape.
Eh. I recall Cyclops being pretty lame in the comics tbh.
This. I honestly feel like Cyclops seems to exist solely because fans love to have someone to hate and everyone seems to hate Cyclops XD
I actually met someone (in person even) who argued that Cyclops was the best, most intelligent and most skilled X-man. It was... surprising.
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My own opinions were shaped by finding the X-men through TSR's Marvel Superheroes RPG first, and mutants were supposed to have a minimum of 2 powers by the rules, so Cyclops always struck me as severely unpowered.
My second was the Dallas storyline against Trickster/Coyote where they all sacrificed themselves, and Cyclops was long gone. But X-men classic was running simultaneously at the time (and the Phoenix Saga specifically), and Scott seemed like a pompous chump.
Eh. I recall Cyclops being pretty lame in the comics tbh.
This. I honestly feel like Cyclops seems to exist solely because fans love to have someone to hate and everyone seems to hate Cyclops XD
I actually met someone (in person even) who argued that Cyclops was the best, most intelligent and most skilled X-man. It was... surprising.
---
My own opinions were shaped by finding the X-men through TSR's Marvel Superheroes RPG first, and mutants were supposed to have a minimum of 2 powers by the rules, so Cyclops always struck me as severely unpowered.
My second was the Dallas storyline against Trickster/Coyote where they all sacrificed themselves, and Cyclops was long gone. But X-men classic was running simultaneously at the time (and the Phoenix Saga specifically), and Scott seemed like a pompous chump.
I’m a Cyclops fan. I’ve always felt he’s gotten a bum rap; he’s always been the most noble, self sacrificing (sacrifices himself to Apocalypse to save Nate Grey), actually BEATS Apocalypse by himself mentally and defeats the possession, but he comes back as kind of an ass. This possession and beating of Apocalypse causes him to become the eventual donkey-cave he is when he leaves Jean for Emma and eventually becomes a terrorist. But yeah, seriously noble, and he destroys himself to save an alternate reality version of his son. I won’t call him the best though; that’s Nightcrawler. Wolverine is like...7th? Maybe? He was just edgy, and nothing more. Lol
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
