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 DaveC wrote:
Very much enjoyed Tales Filoni just gets Star Wars and it was nice to have more of Dooku's back story and motivations filled in and it addresses a few hanging threads from the prequels. The animation in episode 6 Resolve is probably the best they've done to date.

Some odd voice acting choices using both the Clone Wars and Film actors in different episodes for the same character.

Andor was very much the middle of an arc but good world building and scene setting going on.

It was nice to see Dooku and Ahsoka’s leaving of the Jedi Order juxtaposed somewhat. Both were more or less idealists, who found the Jedi Order lacking for fair reason. The main difference was….Ahsoka didn’t have Palpatine sitting on her shoulder, egging her further and further on.

I enjoyed Tales of the Jedi. I thought it would be more different Jedi, but getting some motivation for Dooku is good and more Ahsoka is always welcome.

The episodes are too short to set up much of a story in each episode, so it's good for Dooku to get a three episode arc. But you really need to know Clone Wars and the prequels to get much of anything out of Tales of the Jedi. But as a supplement to those, it's certainly nice to have.

Andor is good as usual. Looking forward to the arc finale.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Very much enjoyed Tales Filoni just gets Star Wars and it was nice to have more of Dooku's back story and motivations filled in and it addresses a few hanging threads from the prequels. The animation in episode 6 Resolve is probably the best they've done to date.

Some odd voice acting choices using both the Clone Wars and Film actors in different episodes for the same character.

Andor was very much the middle of an arc but good world building and scene setting going on.

It was nice to see Dooku and Ahsoka’s leaving of the Jedi Order juxtaposed somewhat. Both were more or less idealists, who found the Jedi Order lacking for fair reason. The main difference was….Ahsoka didn’t have Palpatine sitting on her shoulder, egging her further and further on.

It helps that Ahsoka's master isn't all about doctrine and a lot more about doing the right thing. Because technically Ahsoka is in a similar position during the Siege of Mandalore, with Maul trying to win her over to save Anakin and shank Palpi.

True that.

I think it was long overdue to see Dooku’s motivations. I mean, we learn some of his background in Attack of the Clones. But Clone Wars itself didn’t really delve into that.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Having a nice sit down whilst my dinner cooks, paying proper attention to Andor.

Spoiler:

Or rather….watch Andor pay proper attention to his surroundings. From comments the Guards are making, how the comms panel is used, even noticing the boots the Guards wear before being shown why.

This is pleasing to me, as it follows up on his observations about the Rebel Cell prior to the Heist, such as who’s left and right handed.

It’s a neat bit of character building, as it lets us see he’s already at least looking for ways out. No Force powers allowed, so just guile and careful observation.

I’m loving it!

I also liked him being clearly in shock at one point. Not a superhuman typical Star Wars character.

And they certainly get mundane thuggery and bureaucratic evil down pat. When I am an evil overlord I know what aspects I will have my minions copy (and neat how they address some of the Star Wars plotholes, like if the punishment for failure is severe - force choke!- , no one would report anything, and the ISB would indeed know sod all).

Didn't get to Andor, but enjoyed Tales. Getting perspective on timeframes for Dooku was really interesting, though it was very odd to bookend it with what mostly felt like deleted scenes for Asohka. Young Liam Neesan looked pretty old though, but seeing Dooku around the events of TPM has long been on my wishlist and they did it exceptionally well. The scene at the tree is the kind of stuff that has helped The Clone Wars redeem the prequel era and make it something of a favorite after all.

I will say this about these last 2 offerings. Andor is the best starwars produced since the original trilogy. Looking forward to them hopfully sticking the landing.

Tales of the Jedi had wonderful art. It was neat seeing it as a Duku/Ahsoka parallel story. But also Duku was clearly always a failure of a Jedi. He drifts to absolutes and takes corrective actions based on them. This guy is corrupt. He must be extiguished. The council is corrupt. It must be extiguished. The republic is corrupt. It must be extiguished. He learned nothing from Qui Gon in that second episode. Yaddle talks normally. So Yoda is just some fething weirdo.

They could never make any more Tales of the Jedi and I wouldn't care. Unless they start exploring that Golden Age we heard so much about and have never seen.

Don't hold out too much hope for the 'golden age.'

A new High Republic book came out, its basically 'religious missionaries hate Jedi and are cultish zealots and are spreading throughout the galaxy. Doom, doom, doom.'

Also a star-crossed romance between a padawan and a cultist, because of course there is.

The 'new pre-prequel setting' is basically shaping up to be spot the cliches.

Voss wrote:
Don't hold out too much hope for the 'golden age.'

A new High Republic book came out, its basically 'religious missionaries hate Jedi and are cultish zealots and are spreading throughout the galaxy. Doom, doom, doom.'

Also a star-crossed romance between a padawan and a cultist, because of course there is.

The 'new pre-prequel setting' is basically shaping up to be spot the cliches.

Gross. I want boarder patrolling Knight Errants fighting space monsters and discovering fringe societies where they have their own takes on the Force.

Sadly, that's more or less the starting point.

High Republic Path of Deceit back cover summary wrote:Set in the world of the High Republic, 150 years before the storytelling of Phase I, an era of change brings new hopes and possibilities...but also new dangers. The Outer Rim planet Dalna has become the focus of a Jedi investigation into a stolen Force artifact, and Zallah Macri and her Padawan, Kevmo Zink, arrive on the pastoral world to follow up on a possible connection to a Dalnan missionary group called the Path of the Open Hand. Members of the Path believe that the Force must be free and should not be used by anyone, not even the Jedi. One such believer is Marda Ro, a young woman who dreams of leaving Dalna to spread word of the Path throughout the galaxy. When Marda and Kevmo meet, their connection is instantaneous and electric--until Marda discovers Kevmo is a Jedi. But Kevmo is so kind and eager to learn more about the Path, that she hopes she can convince him of the rightness of her beliefs. What Marda doesn't realize is that the leader of the Path, a charismatic woman known only as the Mother, has an agenda of her own, and it is one that can never coexist peacefully with the Jedi. In order to follow her faith, Marda may have to choose to become her new friend's worst enemy....

'The Force must be Free!' is pretty stomach turning as a catchphrase.
You can probably fill in the blanks on 'the Mother' yourself.

150 years is not early enough. I thought the whole point of doing this golden age was to go back like... 600-1000 years and tell stories long before anything we know of existed.

150 years. Yoda is teaching these people at that point.

For me, a big part of Andor’s appeal remains the sheer…banality of it.

The majority is showing just how mundane most lives are in the Galaxy. Republic, Separatist, Empire - the Little Folk don’t have the luxury of actually caring who’s lording it over them. Jobs to be done, bills to paid. You may not like it, but there’s nothing you can do about it, so might as well keep your head down, get on, and hopefully have enough for some drinks at the end of each week.

Yet, for all that, and the show’s deliberate pace? It’s not boring. At all. It’s engrossing.


We see Andor jailed unjustly for a crime he didn’t have any part of, and handed a heavy sentence. We see him….get to it. On the second shift we see him work? He’s giving it his all. Not doing a half arsed job. Not doing just enough not to be worst team and get a shock. Actually….going for it. He almost seems kind of happy. He’s fed and watered, got something to do, and apparently that’s enough.

I agree with the little folk thing. Andor is giving us a broader and better look at people than the small glimpses we got in Obi Wan. In particular you can see the oppression here. But if you think of it from a business owner who used to deal with gangs or thugs or whatever. You can also understand how that truck driver likes what the empire is selling. Systems, structure, order.

That truck driver hasn't seen the dark side of it yet. But he is happy to not have to worry. Just run his job and go home.

The empire IS oppresive. But its ALSO structure and stability.

 Lance845 wrote:
Andor is giving us a broader and better look at people than the small glimpses we got in Obi Wan.

Well that's what you get when you have real sets/locations rather than doing everything in the Volume.

*rimshot*

 Lance845 wrote:
I agree with the little folk thing. Andor is giving us a broader and better look at people than the small glimpses we got in Obi Wan. In particular you can see the oppression here. But if you think of it from a business owner who used to deal with gangs or thugs or whatever. You can also understand how that truck driver likes what the empire is selling. Systems, structure, order.

That truck driver hasn't seen the dark side of it yet. But he is happy to not have to worry. Just run his job and go home.

The empire IS oppresive. But its ALSO structure and stability.

Yeah. It’s somewhat building off glimmers we saw in the Prequel era. For all its self reverence, The Republic wasn’t an even handed beastie.

Democratic? Sure. Kind of. More so if your Galactic Core where it more or less worked as intended. But further out you go, the more Tinpot things appear to become. Pirates, Gangs. Hutts. Slavers etc.

The Empire did kind of fix a bunch of that. And of course brought an end to war very few knew or probably cared was craftily orchestrated. It did bring order and stability. All it asked was you do your job, we’ll do ours. At least at first.

Its definitely showing the allure of the authoritarian/fascist system for the common folk. We know why the rich folks and upper classes like it (cos prestige and money) but for the common citizen on a Midrim world the Empire means no war, no instability and no (visible) corruption at the highest level.
Of course we know differently as the viewer with the wider scope and IMO the various TV shows Disney have done are still doing enough to show that the Empire isn't something to emulate.

We’re also seeing Luthen Rael actively trying to make things worse. Deliberate strikes which in turn “force” The Empire to get more heavy handed.

In a way, I think that’s in-universe and narratively clever.

Right now, the Galaxy is the proverbial Frog In The Pot. Since Palpatine’s declaration, he’s been carefully upping the heat.

Shadowy ISB to oversee things, but leaving Corp-Sec to manage their own affairs where possible.

Yes things are getting stricter in terms of policing and freedoms. But, all by degrees where it’s such a subtle erosion most folk won’t notice it in time, potentially at all. And all to the background of a comparably peaceful and ordered Galaxy. Certainly the likes of Zygerian Slavers and Spice Cartels now have a unified front standing against them - and one not afraid to get the gloves off for a proper kicking (though we’ve not seen that on screen I admit, but I don’t think it a fanciful claim).

But then comes Rael. Forcing The Empire’s hand. Stinging them in just the right places to provoke a serious reaction. Playing the ISB like a fiddle. The pot is going from a gentle heat to a roaring flame beneath it.

And we’ve seen the direct result of that with a nice pair of scenes to contrast and compare, both on Ferrix, both regarding Bix Caleen*. When it’s Corp-Sec, the enforcement squad are….kind of respectful. They know they’re about as welcome as a fart in a space suit, yes they come out guns bared. But they’re largely reserved.

Sure, one does shoot Bix’s boyfriend (boss? pal?) - but as noted in a much earlier post, his CO immediately chastises the man, disarms him and sends him packing.

The Empire? GET HER! GET HER! From Policing to Bullying to use not quite the right words.

When Corp-Sec was doing it’s thing, the tension was palpable in beautifully crafted scenes. And we got a sense the citizenry were largely willing to tolerate it, as doing so meant being left alone afterward. A potential powder keg, but no-one willing to reach for the matches.

The reaction to The Empire of course remains to be seen, and we may get that in the next episode. But with a permanent, swaggering and heavy handed presence? I can see pistols at Dawn in the future.

*my one criticism is I’m needing to check names via Google! But….that’s possibly more to do with my attention to detail more than anything else. And at least I know who’s who when watching.

Perhaps a silly question, but just to help clarify something in my head….



… but all that aside, I am loving the show. The pace is fine for me because it is fascinating to see the world brought to life. I have seen a thousand takes on prisons in cinema but they managed to make something that felt like a fresh take on a working prison.

So much of this show comes across as… thought out… things make sense to me. Unlike other shows such as Book of Boba Fett or Rings of Power.

I feel a bit guilty for empathizing with both ISB Lieutenant Deeda Meero and the disgraced Syril Karn. It definitely feels like a very different take on Imperial characters. But there is that constant banality of evil vibe as well. Very immersive.

And now we have “rebel” characters looking at the “big picture” not concerned about hurting “the little people” or betraying the people they use as tools.

Normally I would say I prefer a more black and white Star Wars, the clear cut good versus evil Pulp Space opera of A New Hope but Andor is so magnificently made that it is selling me on a shades of moral grey Star Wars. And that really surprises me.

I suspect Ferrix may have been part of the Confederacy of Independent Systems. So the Clones could be from either era, and receive much the same welcome.

Whilst Clone Wars did mostly skim over Naughty Republic Behaviour, they were by no means squeaky clean. All it would it take is a task force with no Jedi attached as a moral compass, and anything could happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ignore all that. I should’ve Googled.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ferrix

Republic World, hung for Anti-Imperial Sentiment.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Perhaps a silly question, but just to help clarify something in my head….

Spoiler:

Andor's step father was hung by Republic or Empire troops? I know some were in Clone armor but how exactly does the timeline fit? The crashed ship on Andor's “home” world, the one with the dead crew… had crew with Separatist markings. And Andor's step-parents to be talk about a heavy handed response from a Republic ship. This has not been further explored yet. Why would a Republic crew be heavy handed and kill everyone associated with the ship? Did Andor's step-parents to be bring the ship down as pirates or were they only opportunistic scavengers? And I notice folks are still using the term Separatist, Mon Motha even send she had a reputation for helping doomed Separatist do-gooders. And I have already heard Andor use the term Alliance, as well as others say rebels (or did they mean Rebels?) and terrorists… that has to be in error as Mon Mothma has not declared the Rebellion yet, right? Bear in mind I have not see Rebels yet.

I think they are trying to emphasise the overlap and change of systems into another.

Palpatine didn't suddenly go - we are an Empire now! Instead, you would have had a process leading to that. New universal laws. Universal messaging. Recruitment into a galatic army for the first time ratehr than PDFs. Republic officers at this stage in the war might simply be killing everyone who opposes them. They are either clones following orders or core world officers sick of risking their lives - any long war brutalises the participants and it takes strong moral leadership to avoid that - and the Jedi morals were frankly odd.

I think the step parents were scavengers as they only had a transport ship, not an anti-corvette weapon fit.

I think in the senate now separatists are ones that don't want to go along with everything the Empire decrees, wanting the autonomy of the old pre war republic. The Empire calls any dissenters rebels, but they have clearly shown they are a disparate set of groups, with Saw's lot fighting for anarchy (in the traditional democratic sense) and operating as commerce raiders (have fighters and are 'flush'). Why not take the catch all term the Empire is using and use that for your own advantage? If you want to unite people, using the term uniting term the Empire keeps repeating ironically gives you a shared identity.

Anyway are we placing bets on how the escape with work? Outside or inside job? I am hoping inside, but it seems very tight, so outside help required?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and are they making anything useful? Or is a different floor just taking them apart...

They could very easily be building support hubs for the death star. Or large space ships in general. A hex grid of supports is very structurally sound with the arms being able to accommodate angles and curves.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Anyway are we placing bets on how the escape with work? Outside or inside job? I am hoping inside, but it seems very tight, so outside help required?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and are they making anything useful? Or is a different floor just taking them apart...

They are most definitely producing something useful. Not only are convicts are great source of cheap labor (and only half a technicality away from slave labor), but they're also kept in good health and thus don't get worked to death. Without the latter as motivation, there's no reason to let them build stuff. There are easier ways to get rid of prisoners, even without executions, and guards with guns and no orders to consider the prisoners' safety can keep a pretty large population in check in case of a riot. Perks of a repressive Empire and all that.

How do they get out? Well, I think it will involve Melshi in a big way since he sticks around until Rogue One. I could see him and possibly some of his buddies having some sort of escape plan/ambition. I could see Clem Cassian playing a vital role in the escape that wasn't practical until someone of his skill shows up. So I'd say inside job.

I reckon Luthen's rebels have no way of tracking him while in prison, so they couldn't help even to take him out after or during the escape. And I think in an Empire so large, Junior and Agent Hot Stuff are only going to find out about Cassian being in an Imperial prison after he broke out and the escape draws the necessary attention and gets his picture out to people who can identify him.

Well….

There was an attempt to persuade Saw to join in on an attack on an Imperial Power Station.

Give Cassian’s Prison’s security? Losing power is a big old problem, right?

Hmm, will be interesting to see if there's a connection.

I'm not sure I'd like that, though. If prison security hinges on the power staying on, I'd hope they have backup generators. I guess it wouldn't outright be a Leia under coat moment if they don't given that there are so many anti-grav platforms and similar tech in Star Wars that the assumption has to be that power outages are nearly unheard of, but still. Remotely circumventing prison security seems like a pretty big design flaw.

Well…..on that.

It looks like a very Modern Facility. Nothing is grimy, not even the inmates living quarters.

Given the well established arrogance of The Empire? They may have cut costs on backups, on the assumption no assault on the power generator could possibly succeed.

As Saw was told, the person he’s being asked to collaborate with has found a gap in the defences, but basically needs X-Wings for the Smashy Smashy?

And given Rael clearly stated his aim is to force The Empire to clamp down ever harder to forment (ferment? I’m sure it’s forment?) discontent and from there resistance and finally rebellion? And assuming he’s not a Palpatine Stooge (OK Rael, get out there and give me as many excuses as you can for me to get my heavy handed jollies, La) this would be another one.

Assuming for now he’s not? What better way to stretch The Empire’s resources from Actually Valuable Targets than getting it paranoid and well protective of all it’s assets? Teensy tiny communications outpost on the arse end of galactic nowhere? Never mind that clapped out Escort Frigate, better deploy three etc etc.

Dave Filoni once said he wanted the X-Wing to make its debut in Rebels in a scene invoking the feel of the 'Cadillac of the Sky' moment from Empire of the Sun.




He never ended up doing that, the X-Wing's debut on that show ended up being a lot less dramatic, but maybe someone's hung on to that idea and it'll be used for Andor?

 Lance845 wrote:
They could very easily be building support hubs for the death star. Or large space ships in general. A hex grid of supports is very structurally sound with the arms being able to accommodate angles and curves.

Oh boom! Great insight...would love it if they're building the death star. Good shout

I will note the hubs are only three joints each, they just stack them alternating which makes the stacks appear to be six.

 AduroT wrote:
I will note the hubs are only three joints each, they just stack them alternating which makes the stacks appear to be six.

Well, Triangles are still super strong, but also a 3 armed hub is needed to make hex grids out of the struts.

So much for the three episode arcs theory…

But that makes way for a new theory, huzzah! Three arcs per season, just the last arc is double episodes with two for the ramp up, two for the middle and two for the fireworks. I have a good feeling about this because obviously the season finale needs to be more 'splodey than a simple arc finale!

Or they do something else, but who cares. They managed to make it good so far, I'm sure they know what they're doing.