No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**PiñaColada**

Emicrania wrote:
VEQ= T7 10W 3+
KEQ= T8 25W 3+ 5++

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the bonebreaka, I just love the G-Naut more, even if it is less point effective (effective or competitive?). I would like to adore the Stompa also but they need to shave off at least 250 points IMHO.

I feel ya, I personally always loved deffrollas so I'm super stoked about the bonebreakas. But then again, my orks are mad max themed and a giant rolling pin of death feels very MM. I still feel like the G-nauts are quite good. You can deepstrike them and they also have 'ere we go so that (maybe with ramming speed) makes for a very reliable charge

**crzylgs**

PiñaColada wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
VEQ= T7 10W 3+
KEQ= T8 25W 3+ 5++

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the bonebreaka, I just love the G-Naut more, even if it is less point effective (effective or competitive?). I would like to adore the Stompa also but they need to shave off at least 250 points IMHO.

I feel ya, I personally always loved deffrollas so I'm super stoked about the bonebreakas. But then again, my orks are mad max themed and a giant rolling pin of death feels very MM. I still feel like the G-nauts are quite good. You can deepstrike them and they also have 'ere we go so that (maybe with ramming speed) makes for a very reliable charge

Best part is you can absolutely have both. A few Bonebreakas deployed (probably with some additional krumpiness inside) bearing down on enemy with G-naut T2 Tellyporta charge. That is a lot of nasty high toughness targets!

**Emicrania**

That s how I play em and they are brutal.

But Kunning also

**koooaei**

Gork has another huge drawback. It has a base.

**Emicrania**

Please elaborate

**greggles**

Since you measure from the hull on the battlewagon, it can engage things that are off the ground. The gork just stares at the figures and makes a sad face, then gets hit with four fusions.

Spoiler:

**Emicrania**

I really hate that rule....

Which is why i play 20-30 StormBoyz

**BaconCatBug**

I mean, RaW there is no need to include a base on any model.

**Vineheart01**

yeah thats probably one of the bigger stupid rules in 8th.
Big things cant attack something on a higher level that they are actually TALLER than, because the base isnt up there.

a Gork should be able to swing at something 6" off the ground....

**Emicrania**

Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah thats probably one of the bigger stupid rules in 8th.
Big things cant attack something on a higher level that they are actually TALLER than, because the base isnt up there.

a Gork should be able to swing at something 6" off the ground....

THAT. A MILLION TIMES

**Grimskul**

Yeah...that's something my group personally house rules, its pretty ridiculous to see a towering vehicle being completely neutered by a floor.

**Frowbakk**

Marklarr wrote:
Frowbakk wrote:
Ork Triple Battalion 1999 points, Battle Forged: + 3 CP (-3 CP for Extra Gubbinz) 13 CP left after list construction.

Spoiler:

Bad Moon Battalion (+5 CP)(-1 CP for Warphead) 772 points [Re-roll 1’s in Shooting Phase]

.120 HQ Deffkilla Wartrike (Warlord: Da Best Armor Dere Iz: 4++), Supa Cybork Body: 5+++

. 62 HQ Weirdboy Warhpead w/ Da Jump, Fist of Gork (Buff Da Warlord)

. 75 HQ Big Mek (Index) w/ Choppa, Kustom Force Field [20pts]

. 90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots (Grot Shields for Lootas, expect every single one of them to die in your opponents first turn)

.170 HEAVY 10 Lootas (Turn 1: 1 CP to Mob Up with other Lootas AFTER Finkin Kap deployed to get 6+ CP Farm’n)

.255 HEAVY 15 Lootas

[b]Evil Sunz Battalion[/b] (+5 CP) 907 points [+1” to Charges, +1” to Move (2” iff Speed Freeks)]

. 91 HQ Warboss on Warbike (Index) w/ Big Choppa = Headwoppa’s Killchoppa

.120 HQ Zhadsnark Da Ripper (Forge World) w/ Da Beast: 2x Big Shoota

.215 TROOP 30 Shoota Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz (Turn 1: Da Jump’d/3CP to Unlimited Greed Tide ‘recycle’ in Turn 2)

.223 TROOP 30 Choppa Boyz, Power Klaw Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz (Turn 2: Da Jump’d after Mob Up)

. 75 TROOP 10 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, Tankbusta Bomb (Turn 2: 1 CP to Mob Up w/above)

.103 ELITE Painboy on Warbike (Index) w/’Urty Syringe, Power Klaw (1 CP to throw a Medi-Squig at Warlord)

. 40 FAST Deff Kopta w Twin Big Shootas (One to fly ahead with 3 Bikes & a Trike to keep them untargetable)

. 40 FAST Deff Kopta w Twin Big Shootas (Also a good source to buff Mob Up’d Choppa Boyz with Loot It! later in the game)

Blood Axe Battalion (+5 CP)(-1 CP for Warphead) 320 points [Counts as in Cover > 18”, may Shoot OR Charge after Falling Back]

. 62 HQ Weirdboy Warphead w/ Da Jump & Warpath

. 75 HQ Big Mek (Index) w/ Choppa, Kustom Force Field [20pts], Finkin Kap: I’ve Got a Plan, Ladz! (CP Farming on a 6+)

. 90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots (Can’t be used for Grot Shields due to <CLAN> mismatch, therefore Objective Grabbers)

. 93 HEAVY Mek Gunz: 3x Smasha Kannons

The Evil Suns are there to charge, as supported by their Kulture.

The Bad Moons are there to shoot, as supported by their Kulture (I'll need to get a dice-rolling app to be kind to my opponents).

The Blood Axes are there to be sneaky gits. (Tactics ain’t a breath mint, y’all…)

Spoiler:

Everything should be deployed under a KFF's 5++ protection so no need to waste CP on Prepared Positions even if going second. So much better than trying to improve 6+ saves which can still be whittled away by AP.

For the Evil Sunz Battalion: 3 Bikes & a Trike (OK, so he’s a Bad Moon, but still…) should get off a first turn charge on something, Biker Painboy should keep 'em in combat a little longer. 30 Shoota Boyz can get Warpath’d and Da Jump’d into a first turn multi-charge into units weak enough in close combat (Tanks/Artillery/etc.) so a few survive in order to be recycled with 3 CP the next turn where the reappear 'Outflanking' and able to shoot away again. Turn 2 the 10 Choppa Boyz can Mob Up with 30 Choppa Boyz, and get Warpath'd and Da Jump'd into probable charge range of whatever the Bikes & Trike didn't kill and Heroically Intervene into during my opponent's turn.

As for the Bad Moonz, the Big Mek with the KFF is there to hide behind the Choppa Boyz mobs and be untargetable while KFF escorting the Evil Sunz boyz and both Weirdboyz. Good thing KFF's and Psyker shenanigans don't care about <CLAN> mismatches. The Lootas are to find anywhere (preferably in cover) with good lines of fire, Mob Up into a unit of 25 first thing and Dakka ad infinitius, uber alles, ad nauseam.

The Blood Axe Big Mek with the Finkin Kap will cover the Lootas under his KFF umbrella and keep the CP farm going as long as possible. He can also repair the Smasha Guns, and for his graduate studies project in sneaky-gitted-ness; have the Mob Up’d Lootas use Loot It! on a destroyed Smasha Gun, have the Lootas refund the CP for it on a 4+ AND farm the CP on a 6+. Remember the (preferably in cover) from just above? That way the Lootas can get a 4+ regular save to help them stick around even longer once all of those Gretchin have been used up by Grot Shields, so deploy those Smasha Guns nearby.

Extra sneaky git shenanigan-ness: The Deffkilla Wartike can move again at the end of the Shooting Phase (your own, not your opponents… don’t be THAT guy…) with the Stratagem: Drive By Krumpin', but is not allowed to charge. However, as a Character the Defkilla Wartrike may still Heroically Intervene its' way into combat. A loophole in the rules big enough to drive a Defkilla Wartike through, conveniently enough.

Your opponent have an annoying Character buffing nearby units? Consider sniping with Deff Koptas by either moving close enough so that character is the closest target, or by using Ramming Speed and putting some Mortal Wounds on ‘em.

I'm really looking forward to playing Orks.

Im not too sure that the drive by Krumpin strat is worded incorrectly and should be taken as it’s worded. The only oversight probably being, in my opinion, the unit can not charge or heroically intervene this turn. It would just seem strange to me if it was any other way, considering how specific all the other stratagems are with when and how you can use them.......or I’m wrong and it’s a complete oversight by GW

I've had games where my opponent has Heroically Intervened one of his Characters into a unit to get it into close combat, claiming that because it's Heroic Intervention that Overwatch did not apply. I was applying that real-world experience here (although I may have been the victim of Shenanigans on their part).<<<As pointed out below, my opponent did pull the wool over my eyes, gosh darnit!

Straight_Memer wrote:

What’s the point of the blood axes, why not make that battalion mixed so the different units can be used with different strats (such as grots >>> bad moons) otherwise looks pretty good overall, maybe make the killchoppa into the Killa Klaw?

Last question first: I copied the list over where the Deffkilla Wartrike was part of the Evil Sunz clan originally and the Painboy on Bike had the Killa Klaw. I'll probably switch back becuse the Medi-Squig Stratagem doesn't work if there's a <CLAN> mismatch, and buffing the Vehicle Character is more Orky than the 4++/5+++ if he's a Bad Moon Warboss. Still have to convert the model anyway after diving into my bitz boxes.

The Blood Axes are a whole Battalion in order to get the Finkin' Kap and the 6+ CP Farming.

Otherwise I'd throw the Deff Koptas

into the mixed Battalion, claim they're Deathskulls and have them get the To Hit/To Wound/Damage re-rolls (and arm them with Kustom Mega Blastas while I was at it.)

Or I'd include MANz which are Snakebites in order to get the 6+++ FNP added on top.

I have serious doubt that a mixed Battalion is supposed to work like that. The way I've read the rule on page 124 of the Ork Codex is that unless the entire Detachment is of a specific Clan (Freebooters being the called-out exception to this rule) then the entire Detachment does not get benefits of ANY Orky Kulture.

Although I could see the argument that the individual units from a mixed Detachment could benefit from the Clan-specifc Stratagems, they would not get the benefits of the Clan-specific Kulture, and without the Kulture for the Blood Axes, there ain't no Finkin' Kap and the 6+ CP Farming.

I'd rather have the CP farming in order to keep feeding CP to the Mob Up'd lootas
>

**xlDuke**

Indeed you don't get your Clan Kulture in a mixed detachment but you do still get access to stratagems, relics and warlord traits. You don't lose the Clan keyword, you just don't get the benefits of the Kultures. I can see how it might sometimes be useful to have a mixed Clan detachment but probably not something I'd do very often at all for no reason other than personal preference.

I'm not sure going for a CP farm is that good for us, we can quite readily have a Brigade, Battalion and Spearhead etc or three Battalions and in those cases potentially getting a command point a turn won't make much difference. Sadly I just don't see much use for Blood Axes when compared to what we can do with the other Clans. That's not really a complaint, we're just pretty spoiled for choice.

**Jidmah**

You can only do heroic interventions during your opponent's turn. No heroic intervening during your own turn.

**Quackzo**

I was just toying around with the idea of Supa-Skorcha Big Trakks filled with Flash Gitz, all Freebootas.
The intention was the Supa-Skorchas would kill a unit and trigger the Kultur. To clarify, the Kultur doesn't directly affect the Flash Gitz while embarked, but indirectly does so as their transport receives a +1 modifier which is carried over to the Flash Gitz via the open topped rule.
After looking at the points cost of this I realised a big trakk is 20 points more expensive then a battlewagon, before wargear.
I don't want to give up on the idea so I'll experiment with it in a friendly game and see how it performs.
I'm expecting it to put in some real work but the inevitable destruction of the big trakk will hurt. If Chapter Approved drops the points cost of the Big Trakk more in line with other Ork transports then I could see this being a more enticing idea.

To follow this up, has anyone else here been running Freeboota Flash Gitz? What has been working for you? What has not? Fluff wise they're one of my favourites, so I'd love to make them work in an army.

**lord_blackfang**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Why is so much stuff out of stock on the GW website? That's weird.

It appears SAGs, Mek Gunz, Trukks, 'Nauts and Deff Dreads have sold out for some reason.

Also the Stompa. That one's weird, I'll give you that.

**Straight_Memer**

Spoiler:

Frowbakk wrote:
Marklarr wrote:
Frowbakk wrote:
Ork Triple Battalion 1999 points, Battle Forged: + 3 CP (-3 CP for Extra Gubbinz) 13 CP left after list construction.
[spoiler]

Bad Moon Battalion (+5 CP)(-1 CP for Warphead) 772 points [Re-roll 1’s in Shooting Phase]

.120 HQ Deffkilla Wartrike (Warlord: Da Best Armor Dere Iz: 4++), Supa Cybork Body: 5+++

. 62 HQ Weirdboy Warhpead w/ Da Jump, Fist of Gork (Buff Da Warlord)

. 75 HQ Big Mek (Index) w/ Choppa, Kustom Force Field [20pts]

. 90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots (Grot Shields for Lootas, expect every single one of them to die in your opponents first turn)

.170 HEAVY 10 Lootas (Turn 1: 1 CP to Mob Up with other Lootas AFTER Finkin Kap deployed to get 6+ CP Farm’n)

.255 HEAVY 15 Lootas

[b]Evil Sunz Battalion[/b] (+5 CP) 907 points [+1” to Charges, +1” to Move (2” iff Speed Freeks)]

. 91 HQ Warboss on Warbike (Index) w/ Big Choppa = Headwoppa’s Killchoppa

.120 HQ Zhadsnark Da Ripper (Forge World) w/ Da Beast: 2x Big Shoota

.215 TROOP 30 Shoota Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz (Turn 1: Da Jump’d/3CP to Unlimited Greed Tide ‘recycle’ in Turn 2)

.223 TROOP 30 Choppa Boyz, Power Klaw Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz (Turn 2: Da Jump’d after Mob Up)

. 75 TROOP 10 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, Tankbusta Bomb (Turn 2: 1 CP to Mob Up w/above)

.103 ELITE Painboy on Warbike (Index) w/’Urty Syringe, Power Klaw (1 CP to throw a Medi-Squig at Warlord)

. 40 FAST Deff Kopta w Twin Big Shootas (One to fly ahead with 3 Bikes & a Trike to keep them untargetable)

. 40 FAST Deff Kopta w Twin Big Shootas (Also a good source to buff Mob Up’d Choppa Boyz with Loot It! later in the game)

Blood Axe Battalion (+5 CP)(-1 CP for Warphead) 320 points [Counts as in Cover > 18”, may Shoot OR Charge after Falling Back]

. 62 HQ Weirdboy Warphead w/ Da Jump & Warpath

. 75 HQ Big Mek (Index) w/ Choppa, Kustom Force Field [20pts], Finkin Kap: I’ve Got a Plan, Ladz! (CP Farming on a 6+)

. 90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots (Can’t be used for Grot Shields due to <CLAN> mismatch, therefore Objective Grabbers)

. 93 HEAVY Mek Gunz: 3x Smasha Kannons

The Evil Suns are there to charge, as supported by their Kulture.

The Bad Moons are there to shoot, as supported by their Kulture (I'll need to get a dice-rolling app to be kind to my opponents).

The Blood Axes are there to be sneaky gits. (Tactics ain’t a breath mint, y’all…)

Spoiler:

Everything should be deployed under a KFF's 5++ protection so no need to waste CP on Prepared Positions even if going second. So much better than trying to improve 6+ saves which can still be whittled away by AP.

For the Evil Sunz Battalion: 3 Bikes & a Trike (OK, so he’s a Bad Moon, but still…) should get off a first turn charge on something, Biker Painboy should keep 'em in combat a little longer. 30 Shoota Boyz can get Warpath’d and Da Jump’d into a first turn multi-charge into units weak enough in close combat (Tanks/Artillery/etc.) so a few survive in order to be recycled with 3 CP the next turn where the reappear 'Outflanking' and able to shoot away again. Turn 2 the 10 Choppa Boyz can Mob Up with 30 Choppa Boyz, and get Warpath'd and Da Jump'd into probable charge range of whatever the Bikes & Trike didn't kill and Heroically Intervene into during my opponent's turn.

As for the Bad Moonz, the Big Mek with the KFF is there to hide behind the Choppa Boyz mobs and be untargetable while KFF escorting the Evil Sunz boyz and both Weirdboyz. Good thing KFF's and Psyker shenanigans don't care about <CLAN> mismatches. The Lootas are to find anywhere (preferably in cover) with good lines of fire, Mob Up into a unit of 25 first thing and Dakka ad infinitius, uber alles, ad nauseam.

The Blood Axe Big Mek with the Finkin Kap will cover the Lootas under his KFF umbrella and keep the CP farm going as long as possible. He can also repair the Smasha Guns, and for his graduate studies project in sneaky-gitted-ness; have the Mob Up’d Lootas use Loot It! on a destroyed Smasha Gun, have the Lootas refund the CP for it on a 4+ AND farm the CP on a 6+. Remember the (preferably in cover) from just above? That way the Lootas can get a 4+ regular save to help them stick around even longer once all of those Gretchin have been used up by Grot Shields, so deploy those Smasha Guns nearby.

Extra sneaky git shenanigan-ness: The Deffkilla Wartike can move again at the end of the Shooting Phase (your own, not your opponents… don’t be THAT guy…) with the Stratagem: Drive By Krumpin', but is not allowed to charge. However, as a Character the Defkilla Wartrike may still Heroically Intervene its' way into combat. A loophole in the rules big enough to drive a Defkilla Wartike through, conveniently enough.

Your opponent have an annoying Character buffing nearby units? Consider sniping with Deff Koptas by either moving close enough so that character is the closest target, or by using Ramming Speed and putting some Mortal Wounds on ‘em.

I'm really looking forward to playing Orks.

Im not too sure that the drive by Krumpin strat is worded incorrectly and should be taken as it’s worded. The only oversight probably being, in my opinion, the unit can not charge or heroically intervene this turn. It would just seem strange to me if it was any other way, considering how specific all the other stratagems are with when and how you can use them.......or I’m wrong and it’s a complete oversight by GW

I've had games where my opponent has Heroically Intervened one of his Characters into a unit to get it into close combat, claiming that because it's Heroic Intervention that Overwatch did not apply. I was applying that real-world experience here (although I may have been the victim of Shenanigans on their part).

Straight_Memer wrote:

What’s the point of the blood axes, why not make that battalion mixed so the different units can be used with different strats (such as grots >>> bad moons) otherwise looks pretty good overall, maybe make the killchoppa into the Killa Klaw?

Last question first: I copied the list over where the Deffkilla Wartrike was part of the Evil Sunz clan originally and the Painboy on Bike had the Killa Klaw. I'll probably switch back becuse the Medi-Squig Stratagem doesn't work if there's a <CLAN> mismatch, and buffing the Vehicle Character is more Orky than the 4++/5+++ if he's a Bad Moon Warboss. Still have to convert the model anyway after diving into my bitz boxes.

The Blood Axes are a whole Battalion in order to get the Finkin' Kap and the 6+ CP Farming.

Otherwise I'd throw the Deff Koptas

into the mixed Battalion, claim they're Deathskulls and have them get the To Hit/To Wound/Damage re-rolls (and arm them with Kustom Mega Blastas while I was at it.)

Or I'd include MANz which are Snakebites in order to get the 6+++ FNP added on top.

I have serious doubt that a mixed Battalion is supposed to work like that. The way I've read the rule on page 124 of the Ork Codex is that unless the entire Detachment is of a specific Clan (Freebooters being the called-out exception to this rule) then the entire Detachment does not get benefits of ANY Orky Kulture.

Although I could see the argument that the individual units from a mixed Detachment could benefit from the Clan-specifc Stratagems, they would not get the benefits of the Clan-specific Kulture, and without the Kulture for the Blood Axes, there ain't no Finkin' Kap and the 6+ CP Farming.

I'd rather have the CP farming in order to keep feeding CP to the Mob Up'd lootas

————————————————————Formatting Error —————————————————————
Yeah, I didn’t mean for you to use the mixed battalion for multiple cultures, but rather so you can use different strategems on different units. So something like this

Wierdboy <Evil Suns>
Big Mek w/ KFF <Blood Axes> Finkin’ cap
Grots x3 <Bad Moons>
Mek Guns x3 <Bad Moons> (This one doesn’t actually matter what keyword it has as strats dont affect Gretchen)

**SemperMortis**

Boyz: From Green to Teal or whatever the hell color that is

Boyz got an alost 17% increase in price and gained 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 models. Everything else they gained is either army wide or requires CP to gain. The Snakesbites and Deffskullz klan boosts boyz to about where they would be in terms of durability as they were when they were 6ppm and the other klan traits don't even address durability at all...well maybe Evil sunz because increased speed is a level of durability all its own.Dakkax3 is roughly a 17% increase in shooting...so again equal to the points increase. point for point boyz are less durable and less choppy than before and in my opinion that is a nerf. Point being that they are good, but they went from being spammed in mass to being taken as 1 or 2 off units and instead relying on grotz to be our CP battery for our units that require CP to function. (lootas).

Kommandos They gained a tankbusta bomb and +1 to wound against units in cover. They lost quite some options if index is not available, so they are basically deep-striking boyz that don't generate CP.
?????

I'll give you they aren't green because they are basically slightly more expensive boyz but they are certainly better than 3rd tier. For starters you can use index to equip them the same as they were, they gained a Tankbusta bomb (which for them is actually decent) they are now more deadly than ever against units in cover (wounding everything except T8 on 4+ or better) but even more importantly, they are damned good at their primary mission now of tying up enemy backfield units and getting their charges off (Not only does Evil sunz make them great but the new rules for Ere we go almost guarantee a charge goes off) Plus if you want to fill out a brigrade 40pts for 4 Kommandos and a Kommando Nob is pretty damned good if for no other reason than dropping them turn 3 on an objective and getting 4+ cover saves while they cap an objective, becoming decently tough to shift.

**TedNugent**

SemperMortis wrote:
Boyz: From Green to Teal or whatever the hell color that is

Boyz got an alost 17% increase in price and gained 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 models. Everything else they gained is either army wide or requires CP to gain. The Snakesbites and Deffskullz klan boosts boyz to about where they would be in terms of durability as they were when they were 6ppm and the other klan traits don't even address durability at all...well maybe Evil sunz because increased speed is a level of durability all its own.Dakkax3 is roughly a 17% increase in shooting...so again equal to the points increase. point for point boyz are less durable and less choppy than before and in my opinion that is a nerf. Point being that they are good, but they went from being spammed in mass to being taken as 1 or 2 off units and instead relying on grotz to be our CP battery for our units that require CP to function. (lootas).

Kommandos They gained a tankbusta bomb and +1 to wound against units in cover. They lost quite some options if index is not available, so they are basically deep-striking boyz that don't generate CP.
?????

I'll give you they aren't green because they are basically slightly more expensive boyz but they are certainly better than 3rd tier. For starters you can use index to equip them the same as they were, they gained a Tankbusta bomb (which for them is actually decent) they are now more deadly than ever against units in cover (wounding everything except T8 on 4+ or better) but even more importantly, they are damned good at their primary mission now of tying up enemy backfield units and getting their charges off (Not only does Evil sunz make them great but the new rules for Ere we go almost guarantee a charge goes off) Plus if you want to fill out a brigrade 40pts for 4 Kommandos and a Kommando Nob is pretty damned good if for no other reason than dropping them turn 3 on an objective and getting 4+ cover saves while they cap an objective, becoming decently tough to shift.

*Ahem* with deathskulls, you don't NEED boys.

All infantry, including characters, are objective secured.

And why would I get some giant, inflexible, overpriced mob of difficult to transport and CP/support hungry boys anyway?

**SemperMortis**

Couldn't agree more ted

**hollow one**

SemperMortis wrote:
Boyz: From Green to Teal or whatever the hell color that is

Boyz got an alost 17% increase in price and gained 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 models. Everything else they gained is either army wide or requires CP to gain. The Snakesbites and Deffskullz klan boosts boyz to about where they would be in terms of durability as they were when they were 6ppm and the other klan traits don't even address durability at all...well maybe Evil sunz because increased speed is a level of durability all its own.Dakkax3 is roughly a 17% increase in shooting...so again equal to the points increase. point for point boyz are less durable and less choppy than before and in my opinion that is a nerf. Point being that they are good, but they went from being spammed in mass to being taken as 1 or 2 off units and instead relying on grotz to be our CP battery for our units that require CP to function. (lootas).

Kommandos They gained a tankbusta bomb and +1 to wound against units in cover. They lost quite some options if index is not available, so they are basically deep-striking boyz that don't generate CP.
?????

I'll give you they aren't green because they are basically slightly more expensive boyz but they are certainly better than 3rd tier. For starters you can use index to equip them the same as they were, they gained a Tankbusta bomb (which for them is actually decent) they are now more deadly than ever against units in cover (wounding everything except T8 on 4+ or better) but even more importantly, they are damned good at their primary mission now of tying up enemy backfield units and getting their charges off (Not only does Evil sunz make them great but the new rules for Ere we go almost guarantee a charge goes off) Plus if you want to fill out a brigrade 40pts for 4 Kommandos and a Kommando Nob is pretty damned good if for no other reason than dropping them turn 3 on an objective and getting 4+ cover saves while they cap an objective, becoming decently tough to shift.

Nah mate, boyz are our best unit still. Your gut feeling looks wrong in literally the first Ork results we've seen, already. I do agree with the Kommandos point though, they are certainly good for 8ppm with their new rule.

**tag8833**

Going to a little RTT tomorrow.

My list has 1 evil suns warboss on bike, 2 evil suns warboss on foot. All have PK, and Kustom Shoota (model limitation).

I was thinking Supa Cybork on the bike boss, and Killa Klaw on one foot boss, and Dead Shiney Shoota on the other.

Which one should be my WL, and what trait?

**SemperMortis**

hollow one wrote:
Love the first post so far Jid. Without being nitty gritty about each unit ranking, I must insist that Boyz are Green.

I don't care if you think they've gotten worse (they haven't). They are going to be a staple in EVERY competitive list, and already showed up as a minimum of 90 in the first two successful lists this month. Gretchin are not better than boyz IMO, they are useful for a specific purpose (CP and grot shields) and otherwise not a good unit. This is deceptive for new/casual players as they will fill their troops with gretchin and wonder why they are losing every game since they have no boyz.

Gretchin serve a valuable purpose, but Boyz are the meat and bones of an army. This makes Boyz categorically better than Gretchin IMO. Everyone is just sick of running boyz, but that does not prevent them from being one of our best units.

Additionally, their versatility is outstanding: double shooting bad moon shootas, double attacking evil sun choppas, the best deep strike in the game (da jump and 8 inch rerollable), mob up to 40, green tide of traitors, obsec, increased durability with some klans, infinite attacks. All for a mere 7 ppm. Most armies would kill for access to boys and their stratagems.

They are green. Both in skin, and tier.

They haven't gotten worse: Except they have in durability and Choppiness. Shootiness point for point they are as good as they were in the index because of Dakkax3, but every unit gets this, same thing with Klan kulture. If you exclude Kultures boyz are worse across the board except in shooting where they are exactly as good as before. Add in kulture and they are WORSE in choppiness for every faction except Goffs where they break even, and are less durable except in factions where they get FNP or 6+ invulns. Don't include Strats because than you have to factor in a whole other set of factors which honestly don't benefit boyz either (Looking at you 2CP strat for 5+ armor). And even if you do include strats, most of them are better on other units, the shoot twice strat...why the hell would you waste that on boyz when you could use that on tankbustas, lootas or hell even a Morkanaut. Double attacks? same thing, why waste it on boyz when they are already killing their designated targets and the tough things like knights you would be better of using that strat on a warboss on warbike with Relic klaw to make sure he kills it. Mob up....Better on lootas or tankbustas. Obsec.....they already had that in the index didn't they? FAQ or something? and again, Deffskullz grants that to every unit regardless. On top of that, I think in the last two years I had maybe 1 game go down to obsec vs non-obsec.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:
Going to a little RTT tomorrow.

My list has 1 evil suns warboss on bike, 2 evil suns warboss on foot. All have PK, and Kustom Shoota (model limitation).

I was thinking Supa Cybork on the bike boss, and Killa Klaw on one foot boss, and Dead Shiney Shoota on the other.

Which one should be my WL, and what trait?

Make warboss on bike take the relic klaw. But make your warlord one of them on foot because your warbiker boss is a suicide unit. Supa Cybork is meh at best, Id save the CP or take something different. I kind of like The redder armor on a Big mek or regular mek in a Bonecrusha that teleports turn 2. Makes it not only good at CC but also a wicked huge distraction carnifex.

**BaconCatBug**

Would you not put the Killa Klaw on the Biker Boss? The Footslogger most likely won't make it to combat. Combining Brutal but Kunnin on a Killa Klaw Warboss makes him practically delete anything he touches.

**flandarz**

Endless Green Tide is a great Strat for Boyz, as long as you can manage to hold onto a few of then into your turn.

The stat block for the Boyz is unchanged from index to Codex. The got a 1ppm increase in price. I assume when you say "worse" you mean their price efficiency, but they're still the same Boyz. Unless you're running Speed Freekz or some other list that relies on high mobility, you're gonna be including at least 1 FSU in your list.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Supra Cybork combines real well with Bad Moonz Trait for improving the tankiness of your WL, so don't discount it entirely.

Probably my favorite Relic is the Lucky Stikk though. Turns your HQ into a Banner Nob.

**SemperMortis**

flandarz wrote:
Endless Green Tide is a great Strat for Boyz, as long as you can manage to hold onto a few of then into your turn.

The stat block for the Boyz is unchanged from index to Codex. The got a 1ppm increase in price. I assume when you say "worse" you mean their price efficiency, but they're still the same Boyz. Unless you're running Speed Freekz or some other list that relies on high mobility, you're gonna be including at least 1 FSU in your list.

Efficiency of course. 40k runs on unit efficiency, and boyz just took a 12% cut in efficiency in my opinion. (6% because of choppiness and 6% for durability)

**BaconCatBug**

That 12% goes a long way. Taking one full unit of Boyz is still good, either as a distraction unit or to Tellyport/Da Jump in, but the days of 200+ boyz are no more.

**flandarz**

Oh, no doubt. Just saying they're still gonna feature in most lists. They just ain't gonna be the stars of those lists no more (unless you roll Skarboyz. But that's a whole different thing).

**SemperMortis**

BaconCatBug wrote:
That 12% goes a long way. Taking one full unit of Boyz is still good, either as a distraction unit or to Tellyport/Da Jump in, but the days of 200+ boyz are no more.

Exactly, I wouldn't put them in the same category as weirdboyz or warboss on warbike. They are still good (teal) but they aren't a YOU MUST TAKE unit anymore. My competitive list is down to 60 boyz and I am seriously debating cutting them and saving 360pts and taking another 20 grotz instead. Than using those 360pts for something even better.

**flandarz**

I'd definitely put Skarboyz in green. That S5 goes a long way. Normal Boyz? Yeah, I think real is fine.