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 Jidmah wrote:
Can't go wrong with a SAG and gretchin really. You should look into getting three units of troops first so you can build a functional army, Thrakka and Makari can be your HQs for the first few games.
Adding another box of MANz would also allow you to field a unit of 5 and build big mek.
And there is the option to get a box of flash gits to combine them with the nobz you have into a unit of 10 gits - the bodies are the same and the flash gits box has enough bits to turn nobz with kustom weapons into flash gits as well.

What kind of games are you going to play? Competitive play in a league or tournament or more casual play among friends?

Are there some units or a certain play style which has already caught your eye that you want to play?

Playing with friends and local tournaments but a lot of the players using competitive lists.

I really like stormboys, grots, flyers and meganobz but to be honest all ork models are cool.

People are freaking out a bit about the 9th edition preview on reddit for Orks.

I think it looks really good for them overall.

Concerns I've seen:
1) No more CP advantage with cheap batallions over enemies

-Yeah, but maybe I don't have to field triple batallion anymore, meaning Orks will have more diverse list composition. HUGE potential win.

2) Can't tag tanks anymore.

-Shame Orks have horrible anti-tank eh? /s

3) Blast weapons will wreck the horde

-This might affect boy heavy lists, but they've also said point cost adjustments might happen to balance out units for these new rules. Maybe the KFF getting 20 points cheaper IS intentional?
Worse comes to worse, take a couple KFF meks, good ol Mad Dok, and hide under a field of 5++, 6+++.

mhalko1 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
You are all forgetting there are other phases to do dmg to him in. I ran an experiment with my campaign army and shredded ghaz in 1 turn. 3 scrapjets, and a SSAG Big mek SSAG and scrapjet gunz kill 4 wounds with ease in the shooting phase with enough big shoota's left over to clear any chaff in the way. Scrapjets charge in, one using the 3D6 charge strat. I then roll 3 dice looking for 4+ and another dice looking for a 2+, all do D3 mortal wounds in the CHARGE phase. in CC the scrapjets average exactly 4 wounds against Ghaz, and if you are worried about the chances you can always run in a warboss on bike or another fast unit to help finish him off.

Ghaz is a trap at this point, he might do well for a bit as people figure out how to deal with him but he isn't worth his points and doesn't buff anyone enough to justify taking him at all. Like I said, if the Goff rocker was allowed in matched play it might give more credence to a goff foot sloggin horde but atm there just isn't a place for him.

If his wounds jumped to 16 or his ability changed to 3 wounds a phase. how do you think it would change things? makes it 4 total phases to have to take damage in.

It wouldn't matter because durability isn't his issue. In fact, I think durability for him is just about perfect. The problem I have with Ghaz is....hes functionally useless. You can get almost the exact same buffs with significantly cheaper models and have MORE damage by using an equivalent number of warbosses.

Ghaz doesn't buff most armies remotely close to the point where I would want to include him. His aura is ok for Goff Boyz and thats about it. So why would I drop shy of 300pts for a model that doesn't do much? If Ghaz did something that other Klans benefited from then he might be useful. Instead of giving Goff boyz reroll hits what if he gave all Orkz near him +2 movement or what if including him allowed you to teleport him and 3 units of your choice turn 2, I mean, something that gives him a use.

At the moment Ghaz is a giant anti-character beat stick. The problem being is that he is slow as sin, he is easy to target and unless you teleport him, his chances of making it across the board are EXTREMELY low. It doesn't matter how tough he is, or that once he gets into the enemy lines he is a destroyer of worlds, what matters is that he is expensive, doesn't buff and will most turns not do anything.

weaver9 wrote:
With the exception of space marines most true gunline armies may be hard pressed to deal damage to him outside the shooting phase. Tau, IG, Necrons, don't have a ton of psychic or melee.

I find it difficult to work him into lists thus far, but I would likely keep him in the tellyporta till needed. Even if that's to camp a far off objective, he presents a natural immunity to being shot off the board, and has a smaller footpront than 30 boyz, so is easier to place when deep striking.

Jidmah already covered it pretty well but the point is that even those armies you listed have several phases that they can hurt ghaz in. If you deepstrike Ghaz some units/armies can immediately shoot at him out of phase, if you charge a Tau gunline you better be prepared for him to eat 4 wounds in overwatch etc. etc.

"Less good news for orks I'm afraid"

- Direct quote from stream regarding new blast rules. Blast weapons now get maximum shots against "hordes." Gee, thanks guys.

Also specific comments about not being able to bog down tanks with "grots."

This is apparently a major concern at GW.

 TedNugent wrote:
"Less good news for orks I'm afraid"

- Direct quote from stream regarding new blast rules. Blast weapons now get maximum shots against "hordes." Gee, thanks guys.

Also specific comments about not being able to bog down tanks with "grots."

This is apparently a major concern at GW.

Kinda weird, given that grots almost never live long enough to ever be close to a tank worth actually locking down. However, this does mean Da Boomer gets a lot stronger as an option since not only can we use it as horde clearance instead of just primaris remover, we also get to shoot it in combat as well.

I'm assuming, as mentioned, that there'll be a point reduction for said horde units now that there's an explicit hard counter against them. I guess the question is if the HORDE keyword will be added once you get to a certain number of models? Or will it just be added to specific units? Would suck for 10 man squads of grots to get auto deleted because they gain the keyword.

yeah im curious who the hell was complaining about grots bogging a tank down.
What tank would grots be reaching? even if you do get them across to assault a tank you're probably gonna lose them via overwatch, fight back, and morale.

The max shots vs hordes better not be a "10 man or greater number" thing because unless they address the fact that NOBODY except orks/nids/necrons use units of 10+ commonly its just gonna kick us in the teeth and nobody else. More us than the other two.

On one hand i would demand a price cut for horde units because of that but on the other i'd rather other things just get more expensive. Potentially fielding 200+ models when im not grotspamming is not appealing.

I sincerely hope they go back to the force org system, where slots are the main cost and not troop tax. Yeah its cool to run literally all vehicles, bikers, or whatever but for every fun "wtf?" list like that we get 5 ridiculous ones that become a problem. Hence, rule of 3 being a thing.

The KFF Mek getting cheaper now looks intentional.

I wonder if painboys / Mad dok will also get a ~10 point drop as well.

 Vineheart01 wrote:


The max shots vs hordes better not be a "10 man or greater number" thing because unless they address the fact that NOBODY except orks/nids/necrons use units of 10+ commonly its just gonna kick us in the teeth and nobody else. More us than the other two.

They literally explicitly said "Less good news for orks I'm afraid." They know.

tulun wrote:
The KFF Mek getting cheaper now looks intentional.

Not sure. Sounds weird that Mega-Armour Mek KFF does have to pay for the equipment then the regular does not.

The KFF is still an obvious oversight for reasons mentioned before.

Taking bets that they completely forget they did this leading all the way up to the 9th ed release.

 Nora wrote:

tulun wrote:
The KFF Mek getting cheaper now looks intentional.

Not sure. Sounds weird that Mega-Armour Mek KFF does have to pay for the equipment then the regular does not.

If his base cost is now 35 points, he's "paid" for it (35+20 for wargear).

Not a confirmation, of course, just they built Saga with 9th in mind, so this is evidence that is not a mistake. Now the actual KFF rules, hell if I know.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:


The max shots vs hordes better not be a "10 man or greater number" thing because unless they address the fact that NOBODY except orks/nids/necrons use units of 10+ commonly its just gonna kick us in the teeth and nobody else. More us than the other two.

They literally explicitly said "Less good news for orks I'm afraid." They know.

Leaving stuff offboard can mitigate. Improved terrain rules can help. And if points gets complete overhaul(faq hints at that imo) then maybe there's help there.

If not yeah orks look more and more shooty msu army

To many point changes, rules changes, and stuff to be worried about orks in 9th.
Terrain changes should help orks,
blast rules will only hurt horde orks. I’m basically using 10man Grot squads now anyway.
I expect point drops.

The only thing that matters for orks right now is are we getting one of the early codex releases or stuck with the bespoke rules from saga of the beast for the next year plus. Because while this edition sounds even more like a 8th plus rules update with some small changes to terrain and flyers. We still don’t want to be playing 8th edition where everyone else in playing 8th plus.

Honestly I’m disappointed I wanted a clean slate with all the strats from the 5-6 sources consolidated into an index and cleaned up.
I’m not into all the unorganized rules for every army completely different from specialized detachments to specialist mobs to build your own mobs, to relics to strat like relics. There is like no continuity everything is all over.

Most of you should have been through this often enough.
Let's not lose our minds and be fearful of a falling sky after tiny bits of a huge rule set being released.

It's really way to early to draw any conclusion for orks, our army relies heavily on many parts of the basic rules, so massive changes to them will always mean massive changes to how orks play. Changes to transports, assault or fighting might have much more impact than the new blast rule.
And we aren't exactly lacking for blasts ourselves - da boomer getting max shots will be pretty nasty.

 Jidmah wrote:
Most of you should have been through this often enough.
Let's not lose our minds and be fearful of a falling sky after tiny bits of a huge rule set being released.

It's really way to early to draw any conclusion for orks, our army relies heavily on many parts of the basic rules, so massive changes to them will always mean massive changes to how orks play. Changes to transports, assault or fighting might have much more impact than the new blast rule.
And we aren't exactly lacking for blasts ourselves - da boomer getting max shots will be pretty nasty.

Talk about da boomer we need to seriously have people on that QnA Tuesday and ask wtf our faq is at!
Becuase it sounds like GW is just going to quickly push out those delayed PA books and jump right into June 9th edition hype/preorders.

 Jidmah wrote:

And we aren't exactly lacking for blasts ourselves - da boomer getting max shots will be pretty nasty.

I'm sure they will do wonders against Space Marine hordes

Wakshaani wrote:
The ORGINAL Space Orks box was all metal. I want to say it had 17 models in it? It was an odd number and I never got my hands on one in person.

This was soon followed by the first generation box of Ork Boys which had 36 (!) in one go.

http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rtb13spaceorks/SpaceOrkBox1x-02.jpg

This box I had, and I still have some of the weapon sprues but no more unbuilt bodies from it. These Orks were teensy things compared to today's lads.

Those Boyz are not as small as you remember. Third from left, ‘modern’ boy, fourth from left 36 box boy with new head + arms.

No idea why it shows inverted. Tap to show.

Bull charge / 9th ed

So we heard yesterday that PA was written explicitly with 9th in mind. We also got some chatter about revised deepstrike and rejuvenated melee. I find myself wondering if this might shed some light on the previously seemingly-bizarre Goff power from SotW? Maybe DS could shift from 9 down to as close as 6"?

EDIT: wasn't aware DA got a strat specifically to allow 6" ds on Deathwing. Stand down

If anything, I expect them to tone down alpha-strikes from deep strike, not to make them stronger.

I dunno, the "attack from any angle" comment makes me worry its gonna get worse.

I honestly don’t expect a ton of changes..
Allowing some assaults on buildings instead of ghaz not being able to hit Troops in ruins.

Firing into combat with buggies and tanks

Flyers able to fly off the board On a turn they are on the board and reappear But not fly off in the same turn. Maybe some changes to Min movement.

Historical blast weapons now hit squads of 10+ models at max # of shots.

Set number of command points for a battleforged army (15?) with a bonus for mono faction (5? they said less soup)

Some changes to character rules and targeting but still ghaz is a bullet sponge Over 10 wounds.

And official missions are essentially copy and paste of nova missions since Brandt is the main driving point of this.

Deepstrike becomes a bit more flexible but still 9in charge w random roll.. you can however outflank again and maybe they will let you outflank without 9in rule.

It'll largely depend how outflanking works / new tactical stuff works.

If we can still screen it out with 9" bubbles, Orks really don't struggle to screen out with grots.

gungo wrote:
I honestly don’t expect a ton of changes..
Allowing some assaults on buildings instead of ghaz not being able to hit Troops in ruins.

Firing into combat with buggies and tanks

I think tanks shoot out of combat. I doubt they can(and other tanks can't for sure). In video one said tanks kill you in melee at which point another interrupted "and shoot another unit" or to that effect(rewatched that part about hour ago)

Just as a thought experiment: What about the general rules would have to shift in order to make Orks an assault army again? Assaulting out of open-topped transports, maybe? Weakened overwatch?

As it is right now, Orks getting into combat isn't really an issue with Evil Suns + Da Jump / Tellyporta + Ramming Speed, Kult of Speed + double move for bikes, etc. It's just when we get there, we get slaughtered.

Probably revamping the Powerklaw to make it more scary than it is now, maybe less than it used to be where it was1 shotting most vehicles.

a normal boy is just weak, so you'll need tons of em. but the 1" rule prevent large mobs from doing their max dmg output...

like 30 sluggaboyz do 120 attacks, hit 90, wound 30-45 thats 10+ wounds on pretty much anything but the toughest targets... but when was the last time you actually could fight with the whole mob??? and i am not even talking about congolining stuuf for auras etc. 99% of the time it is physically impossible to get 30 boyz into attack range...

hordes suffer so much from movement and positioning... and the last time 12 trukk boyz have done any real work for me, was like two editions ago

assault from vehicles AFTER THEY MOVE is a big one.

You can assault after disembarking a vehicle as it is but transports are literally just there to protect the occupants from small arms fire and/or deepstrike shenanigans right now. Which for orks...is kind of a joke to say because our vehicles dont really ignore small arms all that well.

Overwatch is fine imo, unless its a few choice targets its generally an annoyance not a gamebreaker. Also thats what the random vehicle is for, eat overwatch.

Boyz have always been PK delivery services, the boyz themselves typically didnt do near enough to justify their cost bu the PK made up for it. Then the PK got neutered.

I'm really not sure what would be done to fix the hidden PK (or obviously PFs in general). So long as GW sticks to the design concept of "Strikes Last weapons are -1 to hit weapons instead" for 9th, which given that it's meant to be compatible with existing 8th edition material is likely, they won't be able to serve their previous role. To say nothing of their pitiful anti-tank potential. 8th edition has been a bizarre transition in terms of how my army plays, having to go from relying almost entirely on PKs for anti-tank, to them being probably the worst option outside of Da Killa Klaw.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
assault from vehicles AFTER THEY MOVE is a big one.

You can assault after disembarking a vehicle as it is but transports are literally just there to protect the occupants from small arms fire and/or deepstrike shenanigans right now. Which for orks...is kind of a joke to say because our vehicles dont really ignore small arms all that well.

Overwatch is fine imo, unless its a few choice targets its generally an annoyance not a gamebreaker. Also thats what the random vehicle is for, eat overwatch.

Boyz have always been PK delivery services, the boyz themselves typically didnt do near enough to justify their cost bu the PK made up for it. Then the PK got neutered.

Regular power weapons in general this edition have been pretty neuteured for the most part. Unless you can have an entire unit full of them, or they're mandatory equipment, you rarely seem them taken since damage is such a requirement to get through units nowadays, especially in the primaris heavy meta. That's why you only ever really see thunder hammers in SM lists, maybe a few power swords for BA with their +1 to wound, but beyond that PW are taken to a minimum. PK would need to be a TH with a flat 3 damage baseline to be worth the -1 to hit, or they need D6 damage. The Killsaw would also have to be changed to compensate for those changes. I think the most insulting part of this is that our Warboss in the past, even though we were usually pretty easy to put down compared to marines since we rarely had good saves to fall back on, would at least tear most enemies apart in return if we survived. Now that the PK is so piddly with its D3 damage, and our baffling lack of base attacks, even if we get the first hit in, we can only barely reliably kill lesser enemy HQ's like Guard Commanders because the PK sucks so hard. Without the Killa Klaw, I'm pretty sure we would almost never see Warbosses in lists. I'm glad they at least rectified our lack of resilience somewhat with the Biggest Boss Strat, but in terms of killiness, it would be nice to have a good baseline without having to resort to relics to make them effective.

Yeah i hear ya. It bothers me that ork HQs are relegated to Weirdboyz and SSAGs only these days.
Weirdboyz because theyre cheap HQs that at least our powers are decent...for once
SAGs, even the non-SSAG variant, is a character protected turret effectively that while often it doesnt do much, it can super easily simply delete something far more expensive than itself. Tbh i think snakeeyes need to kill him, it feels weird still managing to kill a vehicle with snake eyes strength because i rolled hot after the strength.

I want to use warbosses again, i used to run several of them because like you said if they didnt get mulched they butchered things. They actually were more threatening in melee than a space marine captain, just lacked survivability. But theyre...such....such a crap unit despite not being much cheaper than said captain now.

Heres hoping characters get renovated a bit in 9th, probably our next best hope at non-reroll 1s in shooting/wound characters actually being worth a damn.