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2020/07/18 07:11:31
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
3 hq. Do you have painboys? Meks? There's other characters than hq's.
Yeah but as someone already said... Who's gonna take em?
If a painboy would give a 5+++ (like every other char does) maybe...
Runtherds are just not useful enough
Wbanner costs as much as lieutenants but do less (weirdboy with warpath is the better choice imo)
And I can't see meks running around alone especially with the new look out sir rules (they are a relic of older editions to soak challenges)
So yeah... The hq chars are the only one that are actually useful in any manner
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/18 07:13:02
2020/07/18 07:24:10
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
gungo wrote: Someone at GW really doesn’t like to see orks be competitive... I'll be seriously surprised if the burna bomber isn’t one of the first things nerfed this edition.
Well if opponent has bring it down and thin their ranks every headbut donates 4 vp to enemy..
I need to check the wording on the secondaries, but I thought your OP only scored if they destroyed it?
Unless there's generic rule no. Bring it down says just destroyed.
Though maybe less of issue if you have plenty buggies and/or mek guns @ 2vp
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/07/18 07:45:44
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Burna-bommer [7 PL, 132pts]: 2x Supa Shoota, Twin Big Shoota
Burna-bommer [7 PL, 132pts]: 2x Supa Shoota, Twin Big Shoota
Still on the fence on tryin out redeploy or not, depend if i get the game on TTS or live. If tts probably i ll try it out, it gives another perception of the battlefield.
2020/07/18 11:31:23
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vigilus removal is annoying, but I was trying to abandon it anyway. Having less options availble is always bad but the specialist detachment wasn't a must have anymore.
With the nerfs of SAGs in terms of points and rules I wasn't sold on the SSAG and without the SSAG taking the specialist detachment just to fire twice with a naut is a huge investment in CPs (1+2 for shooting twice in turn 1, 5 CPs total for shooting twice in turns 1-2).
List I'm trying have a naut without the ability of firing twice. Having that stratagem back as a general strategem for orks walkers could be nice though, but I don't see it happening to be honest.
2) KFF Mek in MA, Brutal but Kunnin, cleverest boss'. Ideally Evil Suns (movement would be nice). Non racist KFF, 4 attacks at 2-4 damage, re-roll al hits, Str 10 AP-3. Give it Cybork body for 2+ 5++, 5+++. Take the grot for a 6th wound.
At least it provides a KFF as well, and it won't the easiest thing to kill.
It's a unit that I'd really like to try but it's so expensive. Standard KFF being "racist" is also not an issue if you bring a single detachment, while it's hands down better than the codex one since it also works in CC. For 60+5 points I'd rate it 2nd place HQ after the Warboss, maybe on par with the weirdboy (the latter is worthwile only with 70-90 boyz).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/18 11:35:41
2020/07/18 11:52:13
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
If the Chinork Warkopta get the "Flyer" keyword, is it a valid strategy to use the FLYIN’ ’EADBUTT strat on it to get a first turn charge for the passengers?
2020/07/18 11:58:00
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Nora wrote: If the Chinork Warkopta get the "Flyer" keyword, is it a valid strategy to use the FLYIN’ ’EADBUTT strat on it to get a first turn charge for the passengers?
You cannot charge on the same turn your transport was destroyed.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/07/18 12:06:48
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
tulun wrote: 1) Second Warboss on bike. Brutal but Kunnin', relic Big Choppa. Deathskulls ideally. 4 attacks, str 8 ap-2, flat 3 damage, 1 re-roll to hit and wound, 2 mortal wounds on a 6 to get through good Invuls / FNP.
Issue: Do we really want to spend an HQ slot on another warboss?
I guess besides the klaw boss, the other two slots will be in competition between big meks and weird boyz and neither has particularly great use for any of the relics. Might as well use the CP for another kustom job.
2) KFF Mek in MA, Brutal but Kunnin, cleverest boss'. Ideally Evil Suns (movement would be nice). Non racist KFF, 4 attacks at 2-4 damage, re-roll al hits, Str 10 AP-3. Give it Cybork body for 2+ 5++, 5+++. Take the grot for a 6th wound.
At least it provides a KFF as well, and it won't the easiest thing to kill.
Meh. Might as well just give him follow me ladz for the extra CP.
3) Deathskulls Wartrike, Gork's roar, Cybork body, Brutal but Kunnin'. 5 attacks, re-roll all hits, all wounds, 1 damage roll, 4+, 6++, 5+++, with the normal gun boat gak. Use him as a charger when gak goes down on turn 3. Can go up to str 8 with a stratagem.
Wartrike is actually generally useful and it has anti tank guns in it's arsenal
Eh, this one still sucks, I tried it multiple times. You simply can't turn the wartrike into a biker boss, no matter how many resources you waste on it. In any case, big killa boss is the best trait to put on a trike if you absolutely have to, because it affects both shooting and melee, closely followed by opportunist to light up characters.
If you want to make it more durable, you can also have him take fixer-uppers to repair itself and other vehicles. Never worked for me because it usually went from 9 wounds to dead in one turn though. Too bad that the snazztrike is in vigilus as well, that was a fairly decent relic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote: There is a chance the warboss on bike loses warboss and gains speed boss keyword.
In which case I’ll probably just use a supreme command and battalion detachment with ghaz as my warlord With painboy warpead and a kff Mek(maybe big Mek w kleverboss) and go 60-70x boy hoard And 10x Dual saw meganobs, 2 bombers and 6x mekgunz. If I have the points 2x SJD. Dunno depends on how the next leak nerf us...
As of now, Thrakka does not have the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword yet.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t get the keyword due to complete laziness and they only give it to guilliman and demon Primarchs... however ghaz clearly is the only choice of supreme commander for orks..
Ironically GW deliberately tried to nerf hordes and at the same time pushed the Meta into an anti vehicle/monster heavy Edition... while making mission points extremely important...they took away several different ork army builds to the point horde spam is going to be both anti meta and the strongest tournament list we have...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/18 13:57:32
2020/07/18 13:58:16
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Does ANYTHING have the Supreme Commander keyword atm? Its probably safe to assume its meant for the bigbosses that can be included in a normal army, i.e. ghaz/shadowsun. Shadowsun doesnt have it either, she has a rule called that but not a keyword.
All the Marine characters that would be in that category are Primarchs anyway. Giving them Supreme Commander is pointless, the detachment is "or" not "and" so if they have the Primarch keyword they already are allowed to use the detachment.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/18 14:00:37
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/18 14:23:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: its still a valid option given Chinorks explode for D6 damage for...some reason....
Huh.
God we need the FW updates. If you could field a D6 auto explode for 1 CP at 85 points, half of what a burna bomber currently is, that’s actually great.
2020/07/18 14:33:44
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: Does ANYTHING have the Supreme Commander keyword atm?
Its probably safe to assume its meant for the bigbosses that can be included in a normal army, i.e. ghaz/shadowsun. Shadowsun doesnt have it either, she has a rule called that but not a keyword.
All the Marine characters that would be in that category are Primarchs anyway. Giving them Supreme Commander is pointless, the detachment is "or" not "and" so if they have the Primarch keyword they already are allowed to use the detachment.
I would assume it’s meant for lord of war characters but I can also see Marine chapter masters receiving the supreme commander keyword...I can also see IG character like creed as well.
Vineheart01 wrote: its still a valid option given Chinorks explode for D6 damage for...some reason....
Huh.
God we need the FW updates. If you could field a D6 auto explode for 1 CP at 85 points, half of what a burna bomber currently is, that’s actually great.
Chinorks can also take bigbomms... it has the potential to be incredibly broken. But without the fw book which is being previewed soon... we don’t even know if it’s even in the book anymore.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/18 14:39:15
2020/07/18 14:42:30
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Trying to make some test lists starting with the models I have...any advice? My models are mostly from 5th so I have about 120 boyz, 30 grots, usual mix of characters, deff koptas, battlewagons and some dreads. No flyers, new buggies, or mek gunz yet (but willing to buy some)
Starting with this as my core (DS Battalion)
Biker boss w/ relic klaw
KFF mek w/ oiler
Weirdboy - thinking Da Jump and Maniacal Seizures
90 boyz, Nobs with a single saw (would maybe run 2 saws, but playing WYSIWYG)
Grotsnik
Do we have points on the biker boss? I believe he changed slightly but couldn't find it quickly. Assuming he's about 105 points still with the klaw, that brings me to 1,084 points. Any advice on what would be best to support this? Feeling like I'll lack killing power as the boyz are really there to castle up on objectives. SJD/scrapjets? Mek gunz? Burna bommas?
2020/07/18 14:53:40
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
We know its in the book, they wouldnt give it points in the CA20 if it was a Legends thing now.
The issue is more what was actually intended and what was lazy GW writing making it supercharged. I cant see the Free Dual-Rattlers or the Aircraft tag being intentional. I just cant, its borderline Waveserpent bull from the old days lol
To recap how ridiculous the Chinork is right now:
Sub100pts (forget exact cost) in 9th Rattler Kannons (24" 2D6 S5 AP2 D3D x2 as it has 2 of them) which it now doesnt suffer -1 to hit when it moves to fire these babies Bigshoota Transport Capacity of 10 (cannot be Megas) Fly/Aircraft, which allows it to "move" out of combat and still shoot as well as those embarked as it did not "fall back" Explodes for D6 damage, either on command for 1cp or "accidentally" since its gonna be hugging the enemy's face just in case it happens. Moves 16" with an auto advance of 8 Has access to 1-2 Bigbomms
The absolute only drawback is its T5 8W 4+ armor. And its a Dedicated Transport so its cost is actually ~150-170 depending on what you bought infantry-wise to allow you to bring it.
That is ridiculous lol
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/18 15:00:05
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/18 15:16:11
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Just a thought regarding minimum strength boyz squads.
The prevailing wisdom being they are useless.
Dual killsaws on a minimum strength boyz squad previously cost: 70 + 23 = 93 points
Dual killsaws in 9th in a 10 man boyz squad now costs: 80 + 15 = 95 points
2 point cost increase. Relative to a combat squad of intercessors, which went up 15 points, that isn't atrocious.
Math: .5*.83*4 = 1.66 wounds against MEQ/PEQ at 2 damage
There's your hidden Power Klaw. If mobbed into a larger unit, and for instance Jumped, you could have 2 dual Killsaw Nobs with 5 attacks each averaging 2 wounds on MEQ/PEQ at 2 damage each after Green Tide.
If concentrated locally you could still retain close combat damage output despite the changes to engagement range.
With the removal of overwatch, a 20 man squad from a battlewagon could conceivably enter combat from a Battlewagon with Green Tide for first round.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2020/07/18 15:16:40
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: We know its in the book, they wouldnt give it points in the CA20 if it was a Legends thing now.
The issue is more what was actually intended and what was lazy GW writing making it supercharged. I cant see the Free Dual-Rattlers or the Aircraft tag being intentional. I just cant, its borderline Waveserpent bull from the old days lol
To recap how ridiculous the Chinork is right now:
Sub100pts (forget exact cost) in 9th
Rattler Kannons (24" 2D6 S5 AP2 D3D x2 as it has 2 of them) which it now doesnt suffer -1 to hit when it moves to fire these babies
Bigshoota
Transport Capacity of 10 (cannot be Megas)
Fly/Aircraft, which allows it to "move" out of combat and still shoot as well as those embarked as it did not "fall back"
Explodes for D6 damage, either on command for 1cp or "accidentally" since its gonna be hugging the enemy's face just in case it happens.
Moves 16" with an auto advance of 8
Has access to 1-2 Bigbomms
The absolute only drawback is its T5 8W 4+ armor. And its a Dedicated Transport so its cost is actually ~150-170 depending on what you bought infantry-wise to allow you to bring it.
That is ridiculous lol
Slap on the 5 points for a KMB instead of the Big Shoota too, and now you have a Plasma weapon with triple DS re-rolls baby.
I have one 80% done out of a raider conversion... I might do another one out of the Khandarion Overlord blimp too if these things are as beefy as they look.
That D6 explosion is 100% going away, but I really think they might be doing some work. I also can't imagine the Rattler Kannon thing being accurate because that would be flippin' bonkers. I think right now it costs like 48 points for the pair.
The only thing that is kind of meh is that they can't hide behind obscuring terrain... but then they can deep strike for free.
It's a unit that I'd really like to try but it's so expensive. Standard KFF being "racist" is also not an issue if you bring a single detachment, while it's hands down better than the codex one since it also works in CC. For 60+5 points I'd rate it 2nd place HQ after the Warboss, maybe on par with the weirdboy (the latter is worthwile only with 70-90 boyz).
I'm probably fielding a couple detachments generally with two clans, but yeah, if you're going mono that's totally fair.
I think in the grand scheme of things, take the free CP or take redeploy, which you might just slap on whomever. It really seems like redeploying is a *massive* advantage if you believe what people are saying (it's just better as a stratagem and not a WL trait...). If your opponent is doing it too, you can counter redeploy alternating I believe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/18 15:24:08
2020/07/18 15:25:30
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
As of the leaks, the Chinork is 85, with the rattlers and the bombs being free. You have to buy a BS or a KMB, so a total of 90/95, which is still pretty nice for all that (including the d6 explosion- though that's only on a 6 if you don't 'eadbutt).
Almost certainly not intentional, but if they can't be bothered to check the updated points for Kans, Gitz, etc. when whipping out the 9th points, I'll take what I can get. Assuming that the FW sheets will also be a copy paste job without taking time to check on anything, it looks like it's time to finish the half dozen I started converting so long ago.
Air Kav is a go?
2020/07/18 16:36:28
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Trimarius wrote: As of the leaks, the Chinork is 85, with the rattlers and the bombs being free. You have to buy a BS or a KMB, so a total of 90/95, which is still pretty nice for all that (including the d6 explosion- though that's only on a 6 if you don't 'eadbutt).
Almost certainly not intentional, but if they can't be bothered to check the updated points for Kans, Gitz, etc. when whipping out the 9th points, I'll take what I can get. Assuming that the FW sheets will also be a copy paste job without taking time to check on anything, it looks like it's time to finish the half dozen I started converting so long ago.
Air Kav is a go?
Assuming it doesn't go in the toilet.
They've shown that:
A) they are confused
B) they are scared by popular things in unpopular armies and swing nerf bat wildly
C) they aren't paying attention
D) there is very little method to how they are "balancing" things. They seem to be throwing lawn darts and seeing where it sticks.
E) the points drops make as little sense as the points increases. The last two CA brought down the points on Intercessors, then they went back up to their original points value. ???
Months later, Chinork could be Legends. I guess, play it while you have it?
2020/07/18 16:36:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Screw guns!! What stops you From Bigbomm, eadbutt and loot it.?
So broken
Flashgitz May be expensive but they are a pain when buffed.
3+ nobs Aren’t bad either..
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/18 18:23:10
2020/07/18 17:32:04
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
It has points in CA, so wasn't squatted or "legends-squatted" (unless the leakers are just having a laugh, of course). I don't imagine they'll drop many items at random during the course of an edition (probably saving them for a couple of waves or big book releases), but I can totally see them upping the points in a year when the next CA comes out. Hopefully by that point the things that are horribly overpriced come back down, so it'll be a wash.
As for the guns, why not take them? They're free and you can only 'eadbutt once a round, so you might as well have them throw out some dakka while they wait their turn. They also aren't terrible transports, just in case you need to run someone from a to b (and don't mind them maybe exploding).
Now, they might end up stripping stuff out of the entry, but I'm going to save that annoyance for when they actually go in to strip out useful things while simultaneously not bothering to fix the crippled things.
2020/07/18 18:26:50
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Ilgoth wrote: I truly hope Chinorks are brought back in the catalog. I dont own them.
They were not cheap to buy as I recall. $$
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2020/07/18 19:00:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
How's Dread Mob looking? Planning on doing one as a fun excuse to kitbash bunches of grot bots and mini-mechas. Still able to run them without any infantry? Tips and tricks to make em work?
2020/07/19 01:33:34
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Isn’t flying ‘eadbutt only for units with FLYER battlefield role?
War koptas are dedicated transports, no?
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2020/07/19 01:38:21
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Ilgoth wrote: I truly hope Chinorks are brought back in the catalog. I dont own them.
I’m hoping t the reason they don’t legends them is they plan to fix the mould and are planning on reselling it... however it was a horrible kit to build.. nothing fits flush and you have a lot of unwarping and green stuffing to do.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fxeni wrote: Isn’t flying ‘eadbutt only for units with FLYER battlefield role?
War koptas are dedicated transports, no?
faq gave it aircraft keyword but you are right not the flyer battlefield role
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/19 01:43:56
2020/07/19 01:41:11
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Aircraft keyword and flyer battlefield role are two different things.
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2020/07/19 01:43:39
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
