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Why is no one taking about the Primaris honorguard? Obviously it’s only for Calgar, but I hope this opens up other possibilities.

Also what’s with no more imperial agents? “They don’t fit on the battle fields”? Seriously.. maybe if they didn’t give them garbage rules, have conflicting rules, or actually updated/ have them some models people would like them.
By their own logic as the rules developers saying they don’t Work in 40k is their own fault for making them trash. They needed to be added as an allied force to help bring some different combat to your army..never a force on their own.

#yablewit

 MothCult wrote:


So anyone think that the harp guy is a clear indication of mortal Slaanesh units and how they'll look.


Hes completely out of place with all current Slaanesh models.

Maybe, but from the different view it looks like it might be a captive Eldar/Elf. Then again it appears to be wearing Slaanesh's symbol. I'm more concerned about the rules, having a basically immobile model in an army focused on speed is an odd choice.

I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.

 slave.entity wrote:
If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?

The same reason why Imperial Guard are now "Astra Militarum" in all official branding, the same reason Eldar and Deldar are "Aeldari" and "Drukhari" in all official branding, the reason we get convoluted ass names like "fecculent gnarlmaw" instead of something simple like "plague tree", the reason why you don't get rules unless you have a model, etc.

Because copyright.

GW tried to copyright "Space Marine" 10 or so years ago. They failed because it was ruled in court that Space Marine (and a host of other iconic 40K names) were too generic to be claimed as unique IP.
So GW has been systematically changing all fluff and branding to be easier to copyright. Ergo we have "Primaris" marines with weird ass names like Intercessor, Reiver, Inceptor etc. The more obscure and cobbled together the terms are, the easier GW can defend them in court as specific IP.

People really don't appreciate how much the chapterhouse lawsuit fethed with GW's head. EVERY design change GW has implemented in the past ten years, every single one, can be traced back to them losing that case.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.

I think they really missed the shot when they released Grey Knights. They should have had ordo malleus inqusitors and a retinue entry with malleus specific gear. Saem for Deathwatch. Then when Sisters is released, they could have added Hereticus.

Assasins, Rogue Traders, and SoS are in a weird spot really.

 Breotan wrote:
Is Primaris armor actually referred to as Mk X by GW?

Actually, it was named as such since the very start:

 Malkyr wrote:
Is Calgar's marine Honor Guard an existing kit already? I feel like the jump pack guys aren't Primaris and the shield guys look about normal marine sized.

They look smaller because Calgar is in Gravis suit. Compare DI Gravis captain to his men, they look smaller too...

There is a distinct lack of new chaos things aside form the new Lord. No new CSM box? Bikes? Havocs/Chosen? Oblits? Mutilators officially getting squat'd? Le sigh...

 Carnikang wrote:

I think they really missed the shot when they released Grey Knights. They should have had ordo malleus inqusitors and a retinue entry with malleus specific gear. Saem for Deathwatch. Then when Sisters is released, they could have added Hereticus.

Assasins, Rogue Traders, and SoS are in a weird spot really.

Yea good point I agree with you on this entirely.

 Carnikang wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.

I think they really missed the shot when they released Grey Knights. They should have had ordo malleus inqusitors and a retinue entry with malleus specific gear. Saem for Deathwatch. Then when Sisters is released, they could have added Hereticus.

Assasins, Rogue Traders, and SoS are in a weird spot really.

Agreed. I've never approved of GK and Inquisition being their own unique armies. Hell, even Sisters frankly.

A "Codex: Imperial Auxiliaries" containing Inquisitors, Custodes, Grey Knights, Death Watch and Sisters/ Ecclesiarchy units would have made much more sense to me.

On the other hand though, the same thing can honestly be said about genestealer cults and the snowflake SM chapters like DA and BA. So, a bit late to close pandora's box in that regard.

Well the new miniatures look good, I especially like the new Slaanesh unit models. I think people are totally wrong about old marines being phased out, remember that almost all Aspect Warriors remain resin only while most of the "old" space marine units have plastic models. I doubt Aspect Warriors are going anywhere and I doubt old marines go anywhere either. I think the design team just wants to give people the option to have more "realistic"/military/soldier looking marines.

The bigger deal for me is the talk of formations and bizarre new cities stratagems for MATCHED play. One of the examples of formations was apparently a Stompa getting a warlord trait and relic. What could go wrong with a 40 wound titanic unit being amplified by a warlord trait and relic? We saw how that went with the Castellan.....

If this is GW's idea of what the community wants and/or how to balance the game then I think we are all screwed.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.

Yes, and Grey Knights and Deathwatch never should have been made into full armies. But they were, and now people are invested in them as proper 40K factions, and as much as I personally would be perfectly happy if GK went back to a single ally-only unit of Terminators and DW went back to a single ally-only Kill Team unit I don't actually hope that happens because it would be garbage for said invested people. As for having no place on a battlefield, I guess I must have just imagined all the accounts of Inquisitors leading armies, or commanding kill-units operating during larger military engagements, or launching large-scale operations that would, numerically, easy equal a GSC army or the like.

There is no argument against the inclusion of Inquisitors, Rogue Traders et al that can't be turned against at least one other extant 40K faction.

Besides which, lets get real - the actual reason why we won't get an Imperial Agents codex is that in order to do the concept justice, the rules need to be flexible and highly customisable, which is completely alien to GW's present mode of thinking, which would limit you to Greyfax with whatever weapons are on the model and no more.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?

The same reason why Imperial Guard are now "Astra Militarum" in all official branding, the same reason Eldar and Deldar are "Aeldari" and "Drukhari" in all official branding, the reason we get convoluted ass names like "fecculent gnarlmaw" instead of something simple like "plague tree", the reason why you don't get rules unless you have a model, etc.

Because copyright.

GW tried to copyright "Space Marine" 10 or so years ago. They failed because it was ruled in court that Space Marine (and a host of other iconic 40K names) were too generic to be claimed as unique IP.
So GW has been systematically changing all fluff and branding to be easier to copyright. Ergo we have "Primaris" marines with weird ass names like Intercessor, Reiver, Inceptor etc. The more obscure and cobbled together the terms are, the easier GW can defend them in court as specific IP.

People really don't appreciate how much the chapterhouse lawsuit fethed with GW's head. EVERY design change GW has implemented in the past ten years, every single one, can be traced back to them losing that case.

That's pretty convincing. So it sounds like the general consensus is GW will continue to sell and support oldmarines until people stop buying them. Rather than abruptly ending the oldmarine line and replacing it with Primaris all at once, they are instead allowing oldmarines to die naturally by simply focusing all of their future design/marketing efforts on Primaris. This lets them maximize oldmarine sales as player interest and perception of oldmarines gradually declines and eventually after sales drop past a certain threshold they'll kill the line.

 THE_LIST_MASTER wrote:
... remember that almost all Aspect Warriors remain resin only while most of the "old" space marine units have plastic models. I doubt Aspect Warriors are going anywhere and I doubt old marines go anywhere either..

I'm not sure I follow the logic here.

Aspect Warriors are still in resin because GW haven't yet updated them. If, instead of updating the original Aspects, GW releases a new plastic Nu-Aspect Warrior kit featuring all new Aspect temples, then they'll be in a comparable situation.

From the reddit thread:

“Necrons and Tau won’t be present on Vigilus”
“Everyone present in Vigilus will get special rules”
“Imperium will be in every campaign”

Feth off with this gak; from the sounds of it, Necrons+Tau won’t be getting as special things, just because they’re not on the world.

But that’s a minor issue compared to the Imperium being in EVERY campaign - seriously, feature someone else in the story for fething once. I’ve had it up to here with “imperial this, imperial that” bs.

Edit: No “primarch like modelsfor each army; they want primarchs to be rare and special” - feth off; give Xenos something special and big for once. Why does imperial have to get EVERY big, strong, special model rules+treatment? How about Prime Ork Ghazghkull?

Of course Imperium will be in the every campaign; 40K is about the Imperium and its foes.

 slave.entity wrote:

That's pretty convincing. So it sounds like the general consensus is GW will continue to sell and support oldmarines until people stop buying them. Rather than abruptly ending the oldmarine line and replacing it with Primaris all at once, they are instead allowing oldmarines to die naturally by simply focusing all of their future design/marketing efforts on Primaris. This lets them maximize oldmarine sales as player interest and perception of oldmarines gradually declines and eventually after sales drop past a certain threshold they'll kill the line.

Pretty much, yes. And given that more and more of the oldmarine range has been moving to GW exclusive, all of the new releases have been focusing on Primaris, and the vast majority of people who enter this hobby don't actually stay in it for longer than 3-5 years, I fully expect this to happen sooner rather than later. If they release 9th edition in, say, 2020, they'll have reached a point where marine players are almost entirely either 'veteran' players who already have armies and either aren't buying very much new stuff for them or are starting over with new models, or newer players who have only really been buying Primaris models anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fe40k wrote:

Feth off with this gak; from the sounds of it, Necrons+Tau won’t be getting as special things, just because they’re not on the world.

I'm confused. Would there be any reason to expect armies that are not taking part in the campaign to receive new material as a result of that campaign...?

There'll be other campaigns.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Besides which, lets get real - the actual reason why we won't get an Imperial Agents codex is that in order to do the concept justice, the rules need to be flexible and highly customisable, which is completely alien to GW's present mode of thinking, which would limit you to Greyfax with whatever weapons are on the model and no more.

I think the main reason we won't see such a codex is because GW has deemed that the codex and associated models would not be profitable for their cost. A stance I agree with honestly.

I just meant that the "old" marine plastic kits are not in fact that old by GW standards so I doubt they will stop producing them anytime soon. I also think that they are more likely to "reimagine" the old marines to be a few millimeters taller, like the Chaos Marines in Blackstone Fortress, and pretend that nothing changed, rather than discontinue them.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Unfortunately they seem to be slipping back to that 7E mentality with this formation idiocy.

Honestly I hope groups and tourneys both insta ban them on launch.

Easy tiger, let's wait to see more details before we make these judgements.

I'm sorry but of all the things that murdered 7E for me formations were the biggest and nastiest flaw of the game.

AoS suffers the same fate from what I've observed.

I don't trust GW to ever get it right. Especially with something that's already a year old at release.

Maybe I'm just being a debbie downer, but I just don't think they can do this.

fe40k wrote:
From the reddit thread:

“Necrons and Tau won’t be present on Vigilus”

Probably reading to much into this but......No denial of a Tyranid prescence. Could the Pauper Princes get there day of accension? Nothing makes for temporary allies of convenience like a hungry Hive fleet

Automatically Appended Next Post:

fe40k wrote:

Feth off with this gak; from the sounds of it, Necrons+Tau won’t be getting as special things, just because they’re not on the world.

I'm confused. Would there be any reason to expect armies that are not taking part in the campaign to receive new material as a result of that campaign...?

There'll be other campaigns.

Well, the reddit post I read said:

No Necrons and Tau on Vigilus. They may appear in later settings if they suit it. They don't want to make an unrealistic setting where every faction is present.
The factions present on Vigilus are going to be getting these rules.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/a00l09/i_was_at_the_vigilus_weekender_and_live_reported/?st=jow39cne&sh=7dd15fae

fe40k wrote:

Edit: No “primarch like modelsfor each army; they want primarchs to be rare and special” - feth off; give Xenos something special and big for once. Why does imperial have to get EVERY big, strong, special model rules+treatment? How about Prime Ork Ghazghkull?

I responded to your comment on the reddit post, but I'll post it here just to make sure I'm clear (I might have worded something badly?).

That's not what was said, don't worry. I think you've accidentally combined two of the above points:

1) [Chaos/Loyal] Marine Primarchs will be released infrequently if at all.
2) GW won't systematically go through each and every army to give them a LoW choice, they'll only give them one if it so happens one is designed for them by the design team.

Marine Primarchs will be released very slowly and rarely, to make sure they're rare and special.

Armies without Lord of War models (e.g. Tyranids) or Primarch leader equivalents will only be getting them if it so happens that one of the models the design team decides to sculpt coincidentally is a Lord of War model.

So if they decide to sculpt Ghazghull, Orks will get a Lord of War.

I might have written down stuff slightly poorly, if that's the case I apologise.

Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.

 Barzam wrote:
So, are Marneus Calgar and Wotldtaker expected to be standalone clamshell releases, or are we thinking they'll be in a Starter/Campaign box of Ultras vs. New Black Legion?

Worldclaimer is likely a clampack, Calgar probably a box with his 2 body guards. Too bad no new champion and standard to replace the old ones as well.

 cole1114 wrote:
Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.

Deathwatch would have been just fine as a unit type in the SM codex or Inquisition book. Though the Corvus and Watchmaster are awesome. Make a Deathwatch chapter tactic, add a kill team, corvus, and watchmaster as DW limited units, and they will take up about the same space as the Black Templars. Maybe let you add a kill team to other chapters like how flash gitz work.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

fe40k wrote:
From the reddit thread:

“Necrons and Tau won’t be present on Vigilus”

Probably reading to much into this but......No denial of a Tyranid prescence. Could the Pauper Princes get there day of accension? Nothing makes for temporary allies of convenience like a hungry Hive fleet

When they were mentioning the factions that were getting the rules Tyranids weren't one of them. The factions that got these rules are the ones present on Vigilus and involved with the story. Given this I'd assume the Nids won't show up (this isn't fact, but is my opinion).

Mr.Church13 wrote:

I'm sorry but of all the things that murdered 7E for me formations were the biggest and nastiest flaw of the game.

AoS suffers the same fate from what I've observed.

I don't trust GW to ever get it right. Especially with something that's already a year old at release.

Maybe I'm just being a debbie downer, but I just don't think they can do this.

No need to apologise dude I have the same concerns.

Let's just try and keep the faith until we know more though. So far this edition is the most balanced I've known. Perhaps they've cracked formations?

I am curious if the new special rules for Space Marines will be Chapter Specific. Like, will those special rules leave certain chapters out in the cold because they aren't Toilet Seat Marines? I certainly hope not.

I am curious to see what these special rules are too. I can't imagine 1CP before the game begins should be able to produce something too powerful.

 insaniak wrote:
I'm confused. Would there be any reason to expect armies that are not taking part in the campaign to receive new material as a result of that campaign...?

There'll be other campaigns.

From what I understand the general worry with these campaign books is this:

1) There are more campaign books coming.
2) With every campaign book armies featured within it get a load more rules, stratagems and formations.
3) Imperium are in every campaign.
4) Armies like Necrons might only be in one.
5) Some armies won't have any appearance in campaign books (this was actually stated in the seminar, I was there).

There's the worry that some armies (or soup umbrellas) will get many more rules, stratagems and formations than others, which has the potential to lead to the army with more versatility and choice becoming stronger.

I don't hold too much of an opinion on the matter yet though (I'm waiting until we see what these rules are like).



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am curious if the new special rules for Space Marines will be Chapter Specific. Like, will those special rules leave certain chapters out in the cold because they aren't Toilet Seat Marines? I certainly hope not.

I am curious to see what these special rules are too. I can't imagine 1CP before the game begins should be able to produce something too powerful.

I got the impression at the seminar that the special rules would cost more than 1CP, significantly more perhaps.

NOTE - THIS IS IN NO WAY A FACT, I JUST ASSUME THIS WILL BE THE CASE.

 cole1114 wrote:
Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.

Well, it is more that pruning out the Inquisition stuff has left the Inquisition in poor place, and I think has made both GK and DW more boring. I would have preferred a larger Inquisition codex, or at least Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos codices. They could have still included enough option that you could have fielded pure GK or DW army if you so chose, but it would have made their association with the Inquisition more apparent, and fielding more varied force less painful.

 CaptainBetts wrote:

fe40k wrote:

Edit: No “primarch like modelsfor each army; they want primarchs to be rare and special” - feth off; give Xenos something special and big for once. Why does imperial have to get EVERY big, strong, special model rules+treatment? How about Prime Ork Ghazghkull?

I responded to your comment on the reddit post, but I'll post it here just to make sure I'm clear (I might have worded something badly?).

That's not what was said, don't worry. I think you've accidentally combined two of the above points:

1) [Chaos/Loyal] Marine Primarchs will be released infrequently if at all.
2) GW won't systematically go through each and every army to give them a LoW choice, they'll only give them one if it so happens one is designed for them by the design team.

Marine Primarchs will be released very slowly and rarely, to make sure they're rare and special.

Armies without Lord of War models (e.g. Tyranids) or Primarch leader equivalents will only be getting them if it so happens that one of the models the design team decides to sculpt coincidentally is a Lord of War model.

So if they decide to sculpt Ghazghull, Orks will get a Lord of War.

I might have written down stuff slightly poorly, if that's the case I apologise.

Thanks.

It doesn’t provide me with much confidence in other factions getting new primarchs/lords of war (since how many new scuplts does anyone get anyways); but at least it’s been clarified on what the process for making a new primarch-esque model is.