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 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

I don't expect to see options within squads. Not to the Tactical Squad levels.

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

I've got tins of soup in my cupboard that are older than the "lore" on Primaris, and since the "lore" only exists to flog the new models while they boil the proverbial frog, there's no reason they can't change it on a whim. Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

Or the fluff could state that Marines are being upgraded to Primaris as they can, and that Primaris is as different from Marines as an Exarch is more skilled than an Aspect Warrior.

Between some of your Tacs having been upgraded to Primaris, some of them getting fancy new Super Boltguns, etc, and the relatively smaller gap between Primaris and non-Primaris, that they then use the same stats on the table.

Suddenly, you can now put Primaris into Dev and ASM squads. Or give an "Intercessor" squad 7 Dudes, a Sarge, a Special, and a Heavy, and maybe they *can* fit into rhinos!

Then, suddenly, OldMarines "go away" from the standpoint of those that want them gone, while OldMarines "never go away" from the standpoint of those that don't.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

If that is indeed the case, I hereby dub the newcomers "Primar-est Marines" for their extra, uber, OTT, Prime-y-ness.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

I don't expect to see options within squads. Not to the Tactical Squad levels.

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

I've got tins of soup in my cupboard that are older than the "lore" on Primaris, and since the "lore" only exists to flog the new models while they boil the proverbial frog, there's no reason they can't change it on a whim. Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

40k lore has always been pretty tenuous and mutable. i remember when suddenly there was Tau. Then suddenly Necrons. Then the reveal that a nigh unstablable cosmic entity called the Deceiver was behind everything ever pulling the strings. Then 1 codex later its "JK lol" the Necrons beat up the Deceiver long ago and imprisoned him and he is not behind anything ever.

 Motograter wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

To be fair there will be codexes between gsc and sisters. It's not like they'll just stop from Jan/Feb to october/ November without making new codexes.

As for models regular chaos is in line for an update. We've seen the sorcerer backpack and the one that went up yesterday could be an apostle

My suspicion is that we will see a Black Legion and Emperor's Children codex next year considering the fact they are bringing new units and are updating the CSM kit. A new CSM kit means the old Noise Marine upgrade kits won't work anymore so cue Emperor's Children, especially with Slaanesh Daemons getting some love.

I think GW is planning to Squat old marines altogether. They want to sell models, and they won't sell any to guys who have all the marines they need, so old marines have to go. As evidence, look at the recently upscaled Marneus Calgar to Primaris. They will eventually do that with most of the heroes. And before you say "that will never happen",go talk to Fantasy players about the change from mass combat to skirmish, or even better, talk to Brettonian and Tomb Kings players who were told they would be able to play, but are now no longer tournament official (their army lists were dropped after the 1st Generals book).

I don't personally find small marines slowly disappearing all that unfortunate. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up shifting the entire range to 30k at some point.

Personally they should of been upfront about it and just made them the new space marine models and that they restructured post Guilliman's return with some new gear. It would of been a less bitter pill if GW set the narrative on the change over rather than allow the community to create elaborate nefarious conspiracy theories.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Motograter wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

To be fair there will be codexes between gsc and sisters. It's not like they'll just stop from Jan/Feb to october/ November without making new codexes.

As for models regular chaos is in line for an update. We've seen the sorcerer backpack and the one that went up yesterday could be an apostle

My suspicion is that we will see a Black Legion and Emperor's Children codex next year considering the fact they are bringing new units and are updating the CSM kit. A new CSM kit means the old Noise Marine upgrade kits won't work anymore so cue Emperor's Children, especially with Slaanesh Daemons getting some love.

I'd say world eaters are a shoe in as well. Too much talk about Angron the last few months not to be something

 Motograter wrote:
I'd say world eaters are a shoe in as well. Too much talk about Angron the last few months not to be something

Yeah, there's no way we got a TS codex and won't get a WE codex. And Hastings told us long ago that a 40K Angron model is on the way.

The only reason I'd believe this rumor is because GW seems to have such a boner pushing these Primaris down our throats. The only thing that's gotten more attention than Nurgle and Stormcast the past couple years has been Primaris.

Will it happen? Who knows? Just like all the rumors of Abaddon, Fulgrim, and/or Angron, it's probably just a matter of time. GW works on things years in advance and tends to release things in waves. A wave for 40k. A wave for Age of Sigmar. A wave of specialist games.

2019 is going to be a big year, and releasing more Space Marines will help offset the risk of releasing Genestealer Cult, Sisters of Battle, and other things that may not make them as much money.

And at the end of the day, us old nerds are not GW's target demographic. Their target are the kids ages 10-15 that come into the store and think Space Marines look really, really cool. Primaris are bigger, easier to paint, easier to build, and just look better than the old tactical marines to a younger mind that doesn't yet have the appreciation for Mark V heresy armor. Of course they're going to want to give those younger players more things to buy, more reasons to get into the game, more ways to expand their Ultramarines army. That's what makes GW the money.

So, like I said, it's probably just a matter of time. They've probably already made a half dozen kits like these for Primaris and are just waiting for a good time to release them. Remember, in the Summer of 2019, GW is going to need something big to help prop up their profits like the 8th edition release did in 2017 and the Age of Sigmar 2.0 (and imperial knights and kill team) did in 2018. A fresh slew of Space Marines could possibly do that in 2019, coupled with some other big releases.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rumour has no credibility because it lacks a source or any shred of evidence.

I guess these are the same 'industry professionals' that said a Primeork Ghazzy was coming with codex, that there'd be a sprue to turn other vehicles into Orky ones and that there'd be rules for looted vehicles in codex Orks.

Its click bait. As is typical of BOLS, which is a shame because their podcast content is actually relatively decent.

Hi. I'm BoLS Industry Professionals.

You may remember me from such rumours as 'Abaddon in Black Fortress', and 'Slaanesh is being dropped'.

For what it's worth, the person could've just glimpsed the dude having a topknot and went straight to Abigail.

Let's not pretend that old Space Marine models are the preference of a more refined palate. GW could release true-scale, updated MK V marines and I doubt very many people would try to argue that the old ones were somehow superior except from a standpoint of nostalgia and personal taste.

I'd also say that GW has a vested interest in balancing their customer churn rate by catering to new players while doing their best to retain new ones. Nothing is ever going to please everyone, but it doesn't seem likely that the bodily proportions of old marines are the tie that bound older players to the franchise in the first place. I've been in an on again, off again relationship with 40k since 2nd Edition and I personally consider GW's newer models an improvement over their older ones in nearly every way, except maybe poseability.

It's a common sentiment, but I just wish they updated marines and left the Primaris fluff in the bin where it belongs.

BoLS "Industry Professionals" That said Primaris getting more stuff of some kind is a pretty safe bet. The main problem IMO is going to be the size of the damn Codex if they don't split the two SM types into separate books.

 Dynas wrote:
... that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models...

Out of range models? Can you elaborate on what you mean?

These rumors basically are word for word the Primaris marine wish list

I'll believe this when I see it

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

I don't expect to see options within squads. Not to the Tactical Squad levels.

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

I've got tins of soup in my cupboard that are older than the "lore" on Primaris, and since the "lore" only exists to flog the new models while they boil the proverbial frog, there's no reason they can't change it on a whim. Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

The 40k lore has ALWAYS been tenuous and mutable. People only complain about the near constant retcons and 'hey I found this STC in an old boot' and 'I was dead/alive/both the whole time!' when they don't like them.

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Please do not bypass the language filter like this.
Reds8n

GW brass are blowing bubbles. I will wait for the updated old range. Quadbikes? Not as if old marine bikes couldnt see improvements first. 20 yrs for an updated ork buggy we get nonopose on a base. Now primies get buggies in a year. Way to alienate your base geedubs. Pass.

If (or when) the Primaris get bikes, they obviously need to be grav bikes to go with their grav tanks.

Note, the rumors did not say quad bikes. They stated small, fast, one-man vehicles. For all we know it could be a land Speeder variant with one crewman.

 jeff white wrote:
GW brass are blowing bubbles. I will wait for the updated old range. Quadbikes? Not as if old marine bikes couldnt see improvements first. 20 yrs for an updated ork buggy we get nonopose on a base. Now primies get buggies in a year. Way to alienate your base geedubs. Pass.

A. you're not GW's base. GW's base is younger kids that are getting into the hobby that they can hook onto buying plastic miniatures for a long time to come. GW's base eventually grows out of being GW's base because they become salty nerds like the rest of us.
B. There's no B. I just wanted to make that point. If you think that you're part of GW's base, you're not.

drbored wrote:

A. you're not GW's base. GW's base is younger kids that are getting into the hobby that they can hook onto buying plastic miniatures for a long time to come. GW's base eventually grows out of being GW's base because they become salty nerds like the rest of us.
B. There's no B. I just wanted to make that point. If you think that you're part of GW's base, you're not.

drbored, if you think GW's base is not people who cling to heroic scale models because they believe them to be a matter of refined taste, you're probably right. I think you're kind of overestimating the solidarity that exists for marinelets, here. I was once one of those kids who got hooked into the hobby on the basis of 2nd Edition Blood Angels and I would never look back from the newer models.

I can see the point about Primaris being made to appeal to young beginners. They are big, chunky and toylike. And their fluff appeals to kids who want their thing to be the biggest and bestest and haven’t yet developed a taste for nuance, character and flaws. Marines +1 who are are faster and stronger and bigger with no apparent drawbacks, youngsters love that sort of stuff.

robbienw wrote:
I can see the point about Primaris being made to appeal to young beginners. They are big, chunky and toylike. And their fluff appeals to kids who want their thing to be the biggest and bestest and haven’t yet developed a taste for nuance, character and flaws. Marines +1 who are are faster and stronger and bigger with no apparent drawbacks, youngsters love that sort of stuff.

Oh good, you're here now, too.

Guys, there is nothing refined or nuanced about heroic scale. There is nothing that makes it a sophisticated choice for the discerning hobbyist. You're not a more mature individual for preferring old marines to Primaris.

Seriously. Just stop.

My comment about nuance was to do with fluff, not models.

I don’t like the Primaris because of their design aethsetic, it’s got nothing to do with maturity or refination or nuance. I think they are chunky, ugly and oversized.

I much prefer the old marine aethsetic. I’d rather have heroically proportioned old marines than ugly Primaris marines who are a bit less heroic scaled.

Make old marines in a less heroic scale and I will buy them of course. Make a poor re-imagining and I won’t.

Other opinions are available.

I don’t think you can deny thought that Primaris marines, particularly inceptors and aggressors and big, chunky and a bit toylike.

Adults arguing over what toys are more mature. If our toys were mature they'd vibrate.

robbienw wrote:

I don’t think you can deny thought that Primaris marines, particularly inceptors and aggressors and big, chunky and a bit toylike.

Considering that they have way less cartoony proportions than the old marines, they're much less toylike.

Crikey can people stop conflating this and that in order to score internet points? If someone's evidently talking about the fluff, don't start with "hurp durp but models better". If someone's evidently talking about the design/aesthetic, don't start with "hurp durp but proportions".

I'd say parts of the Primaris range - parts, not all - are cartoonish and toylike. Things like Aggressors, Inceptors, and the New Bigger Bolter Because Biggest Is Bestest weaponry get filed along with Centurions and Chibihawks to my mind.

Nevermind...

 Yodhrin wrote:
Crikey can people stop conflating this and that in order to score internet points? If someone's evidently talking about the fluff, don't start with "hurp durp but models better". If someone's evidently talking about the design/aesthetic, don't start with "hurp durp but proportions".

But if people argued against the points you made rather than the points they wish you'd made, how will they win the argument?

I'll be honest while I do not think this will happen in 2019 another marine codex is inevitable.

What I actually believe is that it's not a codex but a supplement. Makes much more sense then a full on codex. I wouldn't say I'd be mad about there being a new codex, but I'd be a little frustrated. I also don't believe I'd buy it either and I get it via other means