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 Trickstick wrote:
So much went down in points that anything that stayed the same has effectively been increased. It's like some weird form of reverse inflation.

Totaly agree, it is mind blowing. But in way it is good, if good armies get their good stuff at more or less the same cost, and some stuff gets cheaper, then there is a chance to see more variaty among those armies.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Karol wrote:

Bharring wrote:
@Karol: https://imgur.com/gallery/d8Ae4TN

ok thanks man. LoL interceptors costing the same as strikes and 39 termintors when other armies get theirs for 23.

Massive cuts on characters. Draigo is only 180, which is a steal. Psilencers and psycannons cut in half. GK termies still have force weapons. Not sure why CSM termies are 28 and loyalist are 23 though.

I see that, but considering strikes and termintors and everything else was overcosted before and they now price right 2-3 HQ model per army, the drop is going to be felt a lot less then having 23 pts costed termintors. I mean even if they turn in to 30pts like the tzeench termintors there is still a 9pts gap between them and the GK ones.
The tzeench ones have good guns, and good survivability without stormshields.

I mean it is as if they sat down, checked what is the highest priced kit for a GK player to get and lowered the points of those. I am probablly salty now, I would like the changes more, if other factions didn't get significant points drops. Seems like for GK the post CA games are going to look the same only now they are going to have to buy more models to play 2000pts.

SoTs are now 34 points with their sword - before guns. That means you're paying 5 points for the force weapon upgrade, which is roughly inline with what force weapons cost.

It's too much. SOT are still terrible too. At 16ppm though Rubrics are looking pretty good. Which is great because I like to run about 30 of them.

 Galef wrote:
Can anyone confirm the cost of Eldar Windriders? The leaked picture is annoyingly blurred just on their points. I can't tell if they are 15,16 or 18pts. I assume it's not 18 since that is their current cost.

-

Did they go down in the previous CA? As this one appears to have the changes from the previous one too as there are DG units with a points cost that was adjusted last year in there.

SoT are very much not terrible. A maxed 5 man is down 27 points.

 Nazrak wrote:
Also strikes me as very weird that Cultists have gone up to 5ppm but Guardsmen have stayed at 4.

This does upset me. So, for 1 point less, you get a better armour save, better Leadership, better and easier buffs, and access to more and better equipment?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

SoTs are now 34 points with their sword - before guns. That means you're paying 5 points for the force weapon upgrade, which is roughly inline with what force weapons cost.

I dont know, GK don't have DP and tznagors to keep fire away from termintors, and the power weapons rarly get used. No speed buffs in GK armies. 39 with or without weapons is just too much, they maybe should cost 30pts to be good. I mean they made interceptors cost 21 pts and kept strikes with an unchanged point cost.

Plus we are talking about units that were bad before, but tzeench armies don't have to run termintors. For GK termintors make up 50% of the troops they can take. And if strikes cost 19pts and interceptors 21, there is no sense in taking GK troops either. They more or less turned GK in to Draigo+NDK. I mean they even kept the non GM NDK at the same cost while droping the cost of the chapter master version, instead of at least lowering the cost of both of fixing their rules.

Karol wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
So much went down in points that anything that stayed the same has effectively been increased. It's like some weird form of reverse inflation.

Totaly agree, it is mind blowing. But in way it is good, if good armies get their good stuff at more or less the same cost, and some stuff gets cheaper, then there is a chance to see more variaty among those armies.

The cynical side of me says GW does this to sell more models... cheaper models = more models to hit 2000 points.

The hobbyist side of me says this is awesome, because games with more models look better and are less reliant on individual dice rolls, like if I can take redundant units to do a job then it's less likely both will flub their rolls.

This is trash, GK are still trash.

GW are ass if they think these point reductions mean anything especially after EVERYTHING ELSE got a similar point reduction.

Maybe it is me, but I’m not seeing the page that would have the Infantry Squad points value on it. We have the start of AM points values followed by the end of FW AM point values.

 Quickjager wrote:
This is trash, GK are still trash.

GW are ass if they think these point reductions mean anything especially after EVERYTHING ELSE got a similar point reduction.

There are some updated datasheets. Maybe GK are one of them?

...

+++Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.+++

I'm glad we wasted hundred upon hundred of pages discussing Infantry Squads costing more.

 alextroy wrote:
Maybe it is me, but I’m not seeing the page that would have the Infantry Squad points value on it. We have the start of AM points values followed by the end of FW AM point values.

Next page is around, no infantry squad on it. First entry is Lord Commissar.

I’m not seeing how the GKs are the ‘big point drop winners’ GW said they would be.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:The Skitarii Arquebus went down to 15. That's even more than I hoped for. That means a total of 115 for ten Rangers with 3 snipers.

Honestly as someone who loves Skitarii I almost shed a tear.

So did I.

anyway for ad mech some high lights include - breachers down 10, destroyers 15, dunecrawler 20, servitors up!!! 3, infiltrators down 4, ruststalkers down 5, dominus down 35, Cawl down 50, plus general decreases for weapons.

So for me Destroyers, Dunecrawlers, Dominus and Cawl are the winners by far.

Also Why the hell did Servitors go up! they are useless right now. The only thing I can think of is that they are being changed to reflect this points increase.

Regarding the fact that Cultists went up in points but Guardsmen didn't, I think the reason was based less on inter-faction balance and more on intra-faction balance.

One of the articles on the Warhammer page mentioned that Cultists were basically being taken in place of all other Chaos troops, hence why they went up in price. My guess is that GW thinks that Chaos Space Marines (or variants thereof) should be the default troop choice for CSMs. However, since Cultists were apparently stealing the spotlight, GW increased their cost to try and correct this.

In contrast, Infantry Squads *are* the default troops for Imperial Guard. So the fact that a lot of them are being used is less likely to be seen as an issue.

(Not defending this logic, just trying to explain what I'm pretty sure is the reasoning behind this discrepancy.)

Incidentally, the best way to significantly reduce the number of Infantry Squads in the game would not be a small point increase but instead to prevent CPs from being shared between allied factions. However, GW appears to have no interest whatsoever in tackling the issue of Soup.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Gk did need a 5% reduction in overall army cost. They needed about a 30% reduction.

180 point draigo...okay - now hes auto include - that is basically the only change that matters.

The GMDK went down a lot as well if you factor in weapons reductions, Pre chapter approved a GMDK with Heavy Incinerator and Heavy Psycannon (no other upgrades) was 295pts now its 248, so that's pretty decent

Yay my favorite assassin went down 10 points (Callidus)

Flamephoenix182 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Gk did need a 5% reduction in overall army cost. They needed about a 30% reduction.

180 point draigo...okay - now hes auto include - that is basically the only change that matters.

The GMDK went down a lot as well if you factor in weapons reductions, Pre chapter approved a GMDK with Heavy Incinerator and Heavy Psycannon (no other upgrades) was 295pts now its 248, so that's pretty decent

Decent drops there - about where they should be.

 vipoid wrote:

Incidentally, the best way to significantly reduce the number of Infantry Squads in the game would not be a small point increase but instead to prevent CPs from being shared between allied factions. However, GW appears to have no interest whatsoever in tackling the issue of Soup.

The best way to fix this would be to bring back platoons, so IG infantry squads can no longer be taken by themselves, but only as a platoon made up of 2-5 infantry squads and a command section.
Actual guard players would still get the cheap infantry they need, but guard battallions for cheap CP's would no longer be a thing.

 Galef wrote:
Can anyone confirm the cost of Eldar Windriders? The leaked picture is annoyingly blurred just on their points. I can't tell if they are 15,16 or 18pts. I assume it's not 18 since that is their current cost.
-

It's 16.

Panzergraf wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Incidentally, the best way to significantly reduce the number of Infantry Squads in the game would not be a small point increase but instead to prevent CPs from being shared between allied factions. However, GW appears to have no interest whatsoever in tackling the issue of Soup.

The best way to fix this would be to bring back platoons, so IG infantry squads can no longer be taken by themselves, but only as a platoon made up of 2-5 infantry squads and a command section.
Actual guard players would still get the cheap infantry they need, but guard battallions for cheap CP's would no longer be a thing.

That would destroy the ability of Guard to take brigades, which is kind of their thing.

Broadly speaking, I don't think there's any units that GW ruined, there's a lot that needed help that didn't get it or that got trivial changes that dont actually really help, and there are some real head scratchers (lol 25pt reduction on guard tank commanders), but overall mostly good changes that will help open up more units to viability (love the changes to some of the Daemon Engines, Chimeras, etc)

Feels like another muddled afterthought on the whole, but as far as such things go, its on the better side.

chnmmr wrote:
I’m not seeing how the GKs are the ‘big point drop winners’ GW said they would be.

well if you ever wanted to run crow in any of your imperial armies then he now costs a lot fewer points. That guy who won some tournament with a soup list that run 3 interceptor squads, sob and stuff, now has some free point to play with. So it is not like no points were droped. Plus in the warhammer community site when they were talking about point cost drops they said that people that collect paladins or purfires would be happy, not that people that try to play with them would. And the GM in NDK did go down in points.

 Trickstick wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Maybe it is me, but I’m not seeing the page that would have the Infantry Squad points value on it. We have the start of AM points values followed by the end of FW AM point values.

Next page is around, no infantry squad on it. First entry is Lord Commissar.

You're saying that page is somewhere on this list of images?

 Vaktathi wrote:
Broadly speaking, I don't think there's any units that GW ruined, there's a lot that needed help that didn't get it or that got trivial changes that dont actually really help, and there are some real head scratchers (lol 25pt reduction on guard tank commanders), but overall mostly good changes that will help open up more units to viability (love the changes to some of the Daemon Engines, Chimeras, etc)

Feels like another muddled afterthought on the whole, but as far as such things go, its on the better side.

would you pay 19pts for a GK strike, if a GK interceptor costs 21pts?

Pages in order:

https://imgur.com/gallery/hJdGA6T

Neurothropes went up, but Primes dropped by more, and then Venom Cannons dropped like crazy. Big wins for my Nids!

Nid changes were spot on, as always our codex wins in balance. Only dubious point is the malanthrope, i think that it going bank to the old cost is a mistake.

Ahh so cents are at 40. Exactly where I wanted them. GJ GW.

Spoletta wrote:
Nid changes were spot on, as always our codex wins in balance. Only dubious point is the malanthrope, i think that it going bank to the old cost is a mistake.

Looking again the tyranid FW page is missing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ahh so cents are at 40. Exactly where I wanted them. GJ GW.

Oh yes, they are back in the fray.