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 Eihnlazer wrote:
Im currently assuming that if a model is not included in CA this year you would still use the points from last years CA.

If not, and they really dropped the malanthrope back to 90 points, nids are in a REALLY good spot.

We haven't seen the page with Forgeworld Tau or Tyranid units yet though, but if not included there then Malenthropes will stay at their 140 from last year.

Karol wrote:

Bharring wrote:
@Karol: https://imgur.com/gallery/d8Ae4TN

ok thanks man. LoL interceptors costing the same as strikes and 39 termintors when other armies get theirs for 23.

I suspect our termies are cheaper because they don't carry force weapons or sport psychic powers.

The Newman wrote:
Very, very pleased to see Centurions drop to 40 ppm.

Devastator Centurions in Bastions incoming.

 Imateria wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Im currently assuming that if a model is not included in CA this year you would still use the points from last years CA.

If not, and they really dropped the malanthrope back to 90 points, nids are in a REALLY good spot.

We haven't seen the page with Forgeworld Tau or Tyranid units yet though, but if not included there then Malenthropes will stay at their 140 from last year.

This is not how it works since all points previously changed in CA 2017 were reprint here. Malanthrope is 90 back again (and the cost is fair since it's basically a Neurothrope that trades -1 3" bubble for 3++ and 2 Psychic Powers)

We'll be able to create an actual new Ocean if and when Infantry squads both receive no point change and no datasheet change, and the warmth that it will fill me with will keep me warm all winter.

Karol wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
So now the true question is:

Is this enough for terminators? 34 points for a fist and SB termie and 41 for a TH/SS?

I hope it isnt enough to make them playable.


Do people think that after this CA a primaris army would be valid without a primaris codex?

Sure. It was valid before. Viable too. It's just cheaper now. But it still lacks options so it'll be just as boring.

ccs wrote:

Karol wrote:

Bharring wrote:
@Karol: https://imgur.com/gallery/d8Ae4TN

ok thanks man. LoL interceptors costing the same as strikes and 39 termintors when other armies get theirs for 23.

I suspect our termies are cheaper because they don't carry force weapons or sport psychic powers.

there is no efficient way to use force weapons on GK termintors and the psychic powers would have to god like for the difference to be 16pts. But I am no game designers, it looks odd to me, maybe GW is right, but their track record with GK isn't that good. I know that plasma got cheaper, and that SS cost less and both are a change GK are not going to like.

Manous wrote:
So, there are 0 Changes towards Drukhari?
Is this a complete joke?

Or am i missing sth?

Marines got 2 point 3++ saves, so, Disintegrators can eat dirt, I guess?

ccs wrote:

Karol wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
So now the true question is:

Is this enough for terminators? 34 points for a fist and SB termie and 41 for a TH/SS?

I hope it isnt enough to make them playable.


Do people think that after this CA a primaris army would be valid without a primaris codex?

Sure. It was valid before. Viable too. It's just cheaper now. But it still lacks options so it'll be just as boring.

More options =/= exciting

ccs wrote:


Sure. It was valid before. Viable too. It's just cheaper now. But it still lacks options so it'll be just as boring.

That is sad, I hoped they would be bad, so in case GW makes a primaris codex people won't be picking them up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


Sure. It was valid before. Viable too. It's just cheaper now. But it still lacks options so it'll be just as boring.

More options =/= exciting

I don't understand why Brother-Captain Stern is literally cheaper than an ordinary Brother-Captain.

Stern already has his wargear, the generic doesn't so if you take them stock Stern is 7 point cheaper. He can cast 2 psychic powers compared to the generic's one.

Are they just admitting his special smite sucks more than the generic?

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
IS never should have been able to get Mortars in the first damn place.

Why shouldn't they have access to them? They've had access to them for every edition of 40k.

This is just the first edition that they've ever been a functional weapon and where people actually bothered to use them

Because it's stupid that they've had access to them from the outset. And people used them before, they just were (as mentioned) not really a functional weapon.

Speaking for myself, the reason why Infantry Squads shouldn't have access to them is that this was always bound to become an issue. Also because it's stupid to have ANY heavy weapons team "embedded" in the squad like we have here. Yeah yeah yeah real life blah blah blah.

But Guard don't get a "Combat Squads" ability where we can park the HWT and 3 other guys in the back while the remainder go after an objective. I've said repeatedly that Infantry Squads could have been fixed as a potential issue here by simply removing HWTs from the IS and instead giving them and Veteran Squads access to 'Heavy Weapons' like Heavy Stubbers, Missile Launchers, and other smaller, man-portable stuff that don't need a crew to serve them.

 Quickjager wrote:
I don't understand why Brother-Captain Stern is literally cheaper than an ordinary Brother-Captain.

Stern already has his wargear, the generic doesn't so if you take them stock Stern is 7 point cheaper. He can cast 2 psychic powers compared to the generic's one.

Are they just admitting his special smite sucks more than the generic?

Could be because he's stuck with a particular Warlord Trait and then no Relic access.

You can't price on opportunity though. You have to price on realism.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Im currently assuming that if a model is not included in CA this year you would still use the points from last years CA.

If not, and they really dropped the malanthrope back to 90 points, nids are in a REALLY good spot.

We haven't seen the page with Forgeworld Tau or Tyranid units yet though, but if not included there then Malenthropes will stay at their 140 from last year.

This is not how it works since all points previously changed in CA 2017 were reprint here. Malanthrope is 90 back again (and the cost is fair since it's basically a Neurothrope that trades -1 3" bubble for 3++ and 2 Psychic Powers)

Why are you making gak up when we haven't seen the Tyranid FW page yet?

And personally I feel the Malonthrope should be 120.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
IS never should have been able to get Mortars in the first damn place.

Why shouldn't they have access to them? They've had access to them for every edition of 40k.

This is just the first edition that they've ever been a functional weapon and where people actually bothered to use them

Because it's stupid that they've had access to them from the outset. And people used them before, they just were (as mentioned) not really a functional weapon.

Speaking for myself, the reason why Infantry Squads shouldn't have access to them is that this was always bound to become an issue. Also because it's stupid to have ANY heavy weapons team "embedded" in the squad like we have here. Yeah yeah yeah real life blah blah blah.

But Guard don't get a "Combat Squads" ability where we can park the HWT and 3 other guys in the back while the remainder go after an objective. I've said repeatedly that Infantry Squads could have been fixed as a potential issue here by simply removing HWTs from the IS and instead giving them and Veteran Squads access to 'Heavy Weapons' like Heavy Stubbers, Missile Launchers, and other smaller, man-portable stuff that don't need a crew to serve them.

So for consistency, you don't think they should have access to even Lascannons?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you really don't need Combat Squad when the total of your Special Weapon + Heavy Weapon Infantry squad is barely over the bare Tactical Squad. You can move forward all you like.

Because Heavy Weapons embedded in Infantry Squads has been part of how humans have fought wars for about a hundred years? And has been the dominant form of infantry use for most of that hundred years?

hmmm comtemptor down to 88?

also chaos looks to have had a lot of points drops

SUSTENANCE

Now that I think about it I'm kind of excited about the reductions to Veterans and Sternguard too, I can finally put Heavy Flamers on a regular infantry squad without feeling like a durn fool for paying 18 ppm for the dudes.

Also, am I the only one who noticed Astares Grenade Launchers? I can't think of anything that can carry that.

Bharring wrote:
Because Heavy Weapons embedded in Infantry Squads has been part of how humans have fought wars for about a hundred years? And has been the dominant form of infantry use for most of that hundred years?

Dont you dare imply they should, can, or ever have been allowed anything.

 Quickjager wrote:
I don't understand why Brother-Captain Stern is literally cheaper than an ordinary Brother-Captain.

Stern already has his wargear, the generic doesn't so if you take them stock Stern is 7 point cheaper. He can cast 2 psychic powers compared to the generic's one.

Are they just admitting his special smite sucks more than the generic?

GW wants to get rid of GK resin models that didn't sell well in 8th?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
I don't understand why Brother-Captain Stern is literally cheaper than an ordinary Brother-Captain.

Stern already has his wargear, the generic doesn't so if you take them stock Stern is 7 point cheaper. He can cast 2 psychic powers compared to the generic's one.

Are they just admitting his special smite sucks more than the generic?

Could be because he's stuck with a particular Warlord Trait and then no Relic access.

You can't price on opportunity though. You have to price on realism.

Yea its just... weird though. Like with the HQ price cuts we are always going to have a second HQ anyway. Most likely 3-5 HQs per army now. So it is not like that Warlord Trait was a opportunity cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
I don't understand why Brother-Captain Stern is literally cheaper than an ordinary Brother-Captain.

Stern already has his wargear, the generic doesn't so if you take them stock Stern is 7 point cheaper. He can cast 2 psychic powers compared to the generic's one.

Are they just admitting his special smite sucks more than the generic?

GW wants to get rid of GK resin models that didn't sell well in 8th?

My Stern is metal so I don't go that problem, lol.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
SUSTENANCE

lol.

 Formosa wrote:
hmmm comtemptor down to 88?

also chaos looks to have had a lot of points drops

I was going to retire mine for a bit if there were good point drops on regular dreads. But now I'm going to keep him around on top of THB/ML dreadnoughts clocking in at 97 points.

My Stern is metal so I don't go that problem, lol.

I am starting to think that GW stops carrying about anything, the moment they sell you something.

 Quickjager wrote:
This is trash, GK are still trash.

GW are ass if they think these point reductions mean anything especially after EVERYTHING ELSE got a similar point reduction.

Not EVERYTHING ELSE got a points drop. Just the stuff that was terrible that nobody played. It should make the arena bigger, which could in turn result in GK coming out of the woodwork to find a decent Niche somewhere.

Sure, they won't be a super power army, but you might actually be able to win some games now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
hmmm comtemptor down to 88?

also chaos looks to have had a lot of points drops

I was going to retire mine for a bit if there were good point drops on regular dreads. But now I'm going to keep him around on top of THB/ML dreadnoughts clocking in at 97 points.

I have 3 contemptors and 3 Ven dreads that I run as the core of my less competitive space marine army. I just got an entire other dreadnought back in points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

So for consistency, you don't think they should have access to even Lascannons?

In Infantry or Veteran Squads? Absolutely not.

ANYTHING "crew-served" should be cut from those two units, immediately, or given a "fire OR move" requirement, as Heavy Weapons have had in previous editions.

Also you really don't need Combat Squad when the total of your Special Weapon + Heavy Weapon Infantry squad is barely over the bare Tactical Squad. You can move forward all you like.

The point. You've missed it.

The point wasn't about the actual kitted out points value total--it's that the HWTs shouldn't be able to move and fire if the squad did. That's why I keep talking about how we need to see the weapons split out or given the ability to 'detach' and get treated as Characters or get a Shield Drone-esque save when non-HWTs are nearby.

The Newman wrote:
Now that I think about it I'm kind of excited about the reductions to Veterans and Sternguard too, I can finally put Heavy Flamers on a regular infantry squad without feeling like a durn fool for paying 18 ppm for the dudes.

Also, am I the only one who noticed Astares Grenade Launchers? I can't think of anything that can carry that.

Scout Bikers, which also hilariously went down.

ERJAK wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
This is trash, GK are still trash.

GW are ass if they think these point reductions mean anything especially after EVERYTHING ELSE got a similar point reduction.

Not EVERYTHING ELSE got a points drop. Just the stuff that was terrible that nobody played. It should make the arena bigger, which could in turn result in GK coming out of the woodwork to find a decent Niche somewhere.

Sure, they won't be a super power army, but you might actually be able to win some games now.

Dude you know that is not how it works. A castellan should cost more points. All the top tier builds people use now exist right now. Sure people may experiment with stuff that got cheaper, but they will base it around the good core of lists they already had. GK had no good core. You thinking having 4-5 termintors more in a GK list is suddenly going to make it better, specialy when some changes really do help some units to be good? And all of this is before the new book where GK get no new formations or new rules, while most of the other armies do.

The only thing , and I hope am wrong here, that changes with this CA is that other armies now have more ways to beat GK. While GK players can buy more models only to find out that their army is still much weaker then other armies.

Bharring wrote:
Because Heavy Weapons embedded in Infantry Squads has been part of how humans have fought wars for about a hundred years? And has been the dominant form of infantry use for most of that hundred years?

Embedded in != Always With the infantry squads.

That's why I made the Combat Squads reference--if they were able to split off but had some kind of penalty for moving that isn't just -1 to Hit, it would make for a meaningful thing.

As it stands now? It's dumb and needs to be fixed. It's also why Heavy Weapons and Special Weapons Squads are kinda pointless right now.