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Made in us
Pious Palatine




The Newman wrote:
Now that I think about it I'm kind of excited about the reductions to Veterans and Sternguard too, I can finally put Heavy Flamers on a regular infantry squad without feeling like a durn fool for paying 18 ppm for the dudes.

Also, am I the only one who noticed Astares Grenade Launchers? I can't think of anything that can carry that.


I think that's the intercessor's 'one per unit' weapon. EDIT: Nope, scout bikes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/07 18:49:21



 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Kanluwen wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

So for consistency, you don't think they should have access to even Lascannons?

In Infantry or Veteran Squads? Absolutely not.

ANYTHING "crew-served" should be cut from those two units, immediately, or given a "fire OR move" requirement, as Heavy Weapons have had in previous editions.



Also you really don't need Combat Squad when the total of your Special Weapon + Heavy Weapon Infantry squad is barely over the bare Tactical Squad. You can move forward all you like.

The point. You've missed it.

The point wasn't about the actual kitted out points value total--it's that the HWTs shouldn't be able to move and fire if the squad did. That's why I keep talking about how we need to see the weapons split out or given the ability to 'detach' and get treated as Characters or get a Shield Drone-esque save when non-HWTs are nearby.

I just wanted to know if you were consistent. That's all.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
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Hamburg


GK units included here. GMNDK ist 170 pts.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
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ERJAK wrote:
The Newman wrote:
Now that I think about it I'm kind of excited about the reductions to Veterans and Sternguard too, I can finally put Heavy Flamers on a regular infantry squad without feeling like a durn fool for paying 18 ppm for the dudes.

Also, am I the only one who noticed Astares Grenade Launchers? I can't think of anything that can carry that.


I think that's the intercessor's 'one per unit' weapon.


That's the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher. As stated by Slayer, Scout Bikes can use the Astartes Grenade Launcher.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




Karol wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 Quickjager wrote:
This is trash, GK are still trash.

GW are ass if they think these point reductions mean anything especially after EVERYTHING ELSE got a similar point reduction.


Not EVERYTHING ELSE got a points drop. Just the stuff that was terrible that nobody played. It should make the arena bigger, which could in turn result in GK coming out of the woodwork to find a decent Niche somewhere.

Sure, they won't be a super power army, but you might actually be able to win some games now.


Dude you know that is not how it works. A castellan should cost more points. All the top tier builds people use now exist right now. Sure people may experiment with stuff that got cheaper, but they will base it around the good core of lists they already had. GK had no good core. You thinking having 4-5 termintors more in a GK list is suddenly going to make it better, specialy when some changes really do help some units to be good? And all of this is before the new book where GK get no new formations or new rules, while most of the other armies do.

The only thing , and I hope am wrong here, that changes with this CA is that other armies now have more ways to beat GK. While GK players can buy more models only to find out that their army is still much weaker then other armies.


It is absolutely how that works. Every points change has a knock-on effect throughout the entire game. You don't have to suddenly drop one thing enough that it can go toe to toe with a Castellan by itself to create an entire warping of the meta. That would be ridiculous.

Will these point changes unseat the Castellan as the boogeyman wanna-be competitive players wet themselves over? Probably not, but it could lead to shifts in army doctrine that make it less effective against people who know what they're doing. Or it could do nothing. We won't know until probably around LVO with the speed the meta adjusts.


 
   
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Springfield, VA

One big change:
AdMech Loyal 17 battalion cheaper than IG's loyal 32 by 15 points after these changes.
   
Made in us
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
IS never should have been able to get Mortars in the first damn place.
Why shouldn't they have access to them? They've had access to them for every edition of 40k.

This is just the first edition that they've ever been a functional weapon and where people actually bothered to use them

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ok, the new price for Storm Shields on non-characters is unbelievable.
Yeah I just saw that, 2ppm for a 3++ is insane

Exactly. They just need to fix the price on the Mortars. The question is what IS that price?

Also in completely in disagreement with the Storm Shield change. I'd have been okay with 4 points, and 3 points is super pushing it. At 2 it's almost an auto-include.

Are you kidding? 2 point 3++ saves is auto include. It was auto include at 5 points. One of the dumbest changes I've ever seen. DW is pretty OP now.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
One big change:
AdMech Loyal 17 battalion cheaper than IG's loyal 32 by 15 points after these changes.


That's definitely an interesting opportunity.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
One big change:
AdMech Loyal 17 battalion cheaper than IG's loyal 32 by 15 points after these changes.


That's definitely an interesting opportunity.


But don't you want those extra 15 more bodies as chaff and body blockers. 17 models won't block off something like a knight as good as 30.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
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And CWE actually have cheaper min troops than SM now. So that complaint we always hear is actually true - Scouts are 55pts for a 5man, Storm Guardians 48pts for an 8man.
   
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Norn Queen






Infantry Squad remaining 4ppm shows GW has no clue how to balance and has no clue as to what is going on with the game.

Why make Cultists 5ppm and keep Infantry Squads at 4ppm?
   
Made in us
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ERJAK wrote:
Karol wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 Quickjager wrote:
This is trash, GK are still trash.

GW are ass if they think these point reductions mean anything especially after EVERYTHING ELSE got a similar point reduction.


Not EVERYTHING ELSE got a points drop. Just the stuff that was terrible that nobody played. It should make the arena bigger, which could in turn result in GK coming out of the woodwork to find a decent Niche somewhere.

Sure, they won't be a super power army, but you might actually be able to win some games now.


Dude you know that is not how it works. A castellan should cost more points. All the top tier builds people use now exist right now. Sure people may experiment with stuff that got cheaper, but they will base it around the good core of lists they already had. GK had no good core. You thinking having 4-5 termintors more in a GK list is suddenly going to make it better, specialy when some changes really do help some units to be good? And all of this is before the new book where GK get no new formations or new rules, while most of the other armies do.

The only thing , and I hope am wrong here, that changes with this CA is that other armies now have more ways to beat GK. While GK players can buy more models only to find out that their army is still much weaker then other armies.


It is absolutely how that works. Every points change has a knock-on effect throughout the entire game. You don't have to suddenly drop one thing enough that it can go toe to toe with a Castellan by itself to create an entire warping of the meta. That would be ridiculous.

Will these point changes unseat the Castellan as the boogeyman wanna-be competitive players wet themselves over? Probably not, but it could lead to shifts in army doctrine that make it less effective against people who know what they're doing. Or it could do nothing. We won't know until probably around LVO with the speed the meta adjusts.


1 more squad of Terminators/StrikeSquad/Paladins is not going to cause me to win more games, it certainly isn't going to cause us to go up in rankings, whereas we save maybe 200ish points in a 2000 point list everyone is already ahead of us in units that didn't get nerfed. You can stop acting like this is better relative to anything else.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
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Karol wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 Quickjager wrote:
This is trash, GK are still trash.

GW are ass if they think these point reductions mean anything especially after EVERYTHING ELSE got a similar point reduction.


Not EVERYTHING ELSE got a points drop. Just the stuff that was terrible that nobody played. It should make the arena bigger, which could in turn result in GK coming out of the woodwork to find a decent Niche somewhere.

Sure, they won't be a super power army, but you might actually be able to win some games now.


Dude you know that is not how it works. A castellan should cost more points. All the top tier builds people use now exist right now. Sure people may experiment with stuff that got cheaper, but they will base it around the good core of lists they already had. GK had no good core. You thinking having 4-5 termintors more in a GK list is suddenly going to make it better, specialy when some changes really do help some units to be good? And all of this is before the new book where GK get no new formations or new rules, while most of the other armies do.

The only thing , and I hope am wrong here, that changes with this CA is that other armies now have more ways to beat GK. While GK players can buy more models only to find out that their army is still much weaker then other armies.


Purgators w/ Psycannons are 26 now - 123 for a squad. 16 S7 AP1 shots for 123 points boosted to S8 AP2 plus baby smite. An Assback is 114 for 12 S6 AP1. Obviously one is way more durable, but they are somewhat similar in role.

They they dropped the stratagem to 1CP you'll be in a decent place. If they boosted the range on psycannons then even more so.

Instead of being defeatist you should write up some lists to try.

   
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 BaconCatBug wrote:
Infantry Squad remaining 4ppm shows GW has no clue how to balance and has no clue as to what is going on with the game.


Like the internets notions around balance are something to go by.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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ERJAK wrote:



It is absolutely how that works. Every points change has a knock-on effect throughout the entire game. You don't have to suddenly drop one thing enough that it can go toe to toe with a Castellan by itself to create an entire warping of the meta. That would be ridiculous.

Will these point changes unseat the Castellan as the boogeyman wanna-be competitive players wet themselves over? Probably not, but it could lead to shifts in army doctrine that make it less effective against people who know what they're doing. Or it could do nothing. We won't know until probably around LVO with the speed the meta adjusts.


What are you talking about? LVO placings? how is this an example of anything. that what some a bit different version of eldar will beat out a castellan list, or that maybe a tyranid army will rise to the top. How the heck does this change anything for GK. GW could have done 0 changes, just left the GK point drops to draigo and the GMNDK, and I would still wonder if it is enough of a change to make GK a valid list. But all armies got changes, everyone got point drops on something. GK changes would have to be substential to make a deep impact, but , this is my opinion, they are not. So an eldar or tyranid players can now try out new things. Good for them. You think after the changes people are going to try out purificators or termintors in GK lists ? Specialy with plasma becoming cheaper.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Karol wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 Quickjager wrote:
This is trash, GK are still trash.

GW are ass if they think these point reductions mean anything especially after EVERYTHING ELSE got a similar point reduction.


Not EVERYTHING ELSE got a points drop. Just the stuff that was terrible that nobody played. It should make the arena bigger, which could in turn result in GK coming out of the woodwork to find a decent Niche somewhere.

Sure, they won't be a super power army, but you might actually be able to win some games now.


Dude you know that is not how it works. A castellan should cost more points. All the top tier builds people use now exist right now. Sure people may experiment with stuff that got cheaper, but they will base it around the good core of lists they already had. GK had no good core. You thinking having 4-5 termintors more in a GK list is suddenly going to make it better, specialy when some changes really do help some units to be good? And all of this is before the new book where GK get no new formations or new rules, while most of the other armies do.

The only thing , and I hope am wrong here, that changes with this CA is that other armies now have more ways to beat GK. While GK players can buy more models only to find out that their army is still much weaker then other armies.


Purgators w/ Psycannons are 26 now - 123 for a squad. 16 S7 AP1 shots for 123 points boosted to S8 AP2 plus baby smite. An Assback is 114 for 12 S6 AP1. Obviously one is way more durable, but they are somewhat similar in role.

They they dropped the stratagem to 1CP you'll be in a decent place. If they boosted the range on psycannons then even more so.

Instead of being defeatist you should write up some lists to try.


You'd still be better off using the Psilencer in that scenario.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Krieg! What a hole...

Hotshots are now free, cool.

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Primarchs are a mistake
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Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in us
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 Insectum7 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Infantry Squad remaining 4ppm shows GW has no clue how to balance and has no clue as to what is going on with the game.


Like the internets notions around balance are something to go by.


I personally thought IS at 5 would have been reasonable.

I can't say for sure if GW has something that makes that irrelevant. I'll probably still be a bit disappointed about it, but there are enough good changes that I don't care and they have plenty of chances in the future to revisit it.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
IS never should have been able to get Mortars in the first damn place.
Why shouldn't they have access to them? They've had access to them for every edition of 40k.

This is just the first edition that they've ever been a functional weapon and where people actually bothered to use them

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ok, the new price for Storm Shields on non-characters is unbelievable.
Yeah I just saw that, 2ppm for a 3++ is insane

Exactly. They just need to fix the price on the Mortars. The question is what IS that price?

Also in completely in disagreement with the Storm Shield change. I'd have been okay with 4 points, and 3 points is super pushing it. At 2 it's almost an auto-include.

Are you kidding? 2 point 3++ saves is auto include. It was auto include at 5 points. One of the dumbest changes I've ever seen. DW is pretty OP now.

I say "almost" because I don't feel like buying a lot more models.
At least at 5 points it was something you tossed around here and there for additional protection. Now for the same price before Chapter Approved your Vets have more survivability than LotD. Super stupid.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Daedalus81 wrote:



Purgators w/ Psycannons are 26 now - 123 for a squad. 16 S7 AP1 shots for 123 points boosted to S8 AP2 plus baby smite. An Assback is 114 for 12 S6 AP1. Obviously one is way more durable, but they are somewhat similar in role.

They they dropped the stratagem to 1CP you'll be in a decent place. If they boosted the range on psycannons then even more so.

Instead of being defeatist you should write up some lists to try.



They don't have any stratagems, and GK have no good 1CP ones. SoB got a 1CP one. Plus I only have termintors, am not going to buy razorbacks or two boxs of strike squads to get one squad of puragors, just for GW to nerf them after a month or two like they did at the start of 8th. They should have fixed termintors. And not make people spend more money, when they made people waste their money on stuff that doesn't work. If someone bought a non working phone, they have the right to return it, but GW writes you back that that they are "sorry you feel that way" and that you can always paint them. The fethers.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
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Connecticut

 Insectum7 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Infantry Squad remaining 4ppm shows GW has no clue how to balance and has no clue as to what is going on with the game.


Like the internets notions around balance are something to go by.


They all know better. It's why the changes totally happened. :^)

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Infantry Squad remaining 4ppm shows GW has no clue how to balance and has no clue as to what is going on with the game.


Like the internets notions around balance are something to go by.


No, but there's some definite hard facts that we can go bye;

#1 - In a straight up fight with no auras, stratagems, other units, etc. Guardsmen will win against Cultists. Why? Because they have a better armour save, and better Ld.
#2 - Infantry Squads also have access to a greater diversity of weapons, including weapons that are able to deal with enemy unit types far more efficiently than what Cultists are capable of dealing with (aka; "anti-monster/vehicle weapons" like Plasma, Melta, Lascannon, Autocannon).
#3 - Infantry Squads have a stronger link of purpose in conjunction with their army design than Cultists do. Infantry Squads hold objectives, and bubble-wrap units that are able to make game-influencing actions at long distance. As Chaos is a much more close-combat focused army, Cultists are rarely bubble-wrapping more expensive units. Both units are being taken because they are an inexpensive way of filling out force-organization slots, but Infantry Squads have additional functionality in relation to the rest of their army.

For all three of these reasons, each on their own, Guardsmen should cost the same, if not more than a Cultist.

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
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They don't have any stratagems, and GK have no good 1CP ones


I'm saying they could drop the cost of your current stratagems.

just for GW to nerf them after a month or two like they did at the start of 8th.


That's just a silly outlook. At what point since the launch of 8th were GK nerfed?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/07 19:09:56


 
   
Made in us
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Infantry Squad remaining 4ppm shows GW has no clue how to balance and has no clue as to what is going on with the game.


Like the internets notions around balance are something to go by.


I personally thought IS at 5 would have been reasonable.

I can't say for sure if GW has something that makes that irrelevant. I'll probably still be a bit disappointed about it, but there are enough good changes that I don't care and they have plenty of chances in the future to revisit it.


Given that the "proof-comparisons" people did were constantly vs. Marines, and the fact that so much of the marine army saw a drop in points, I think it's a done deal and works out fine. I feel like my army is saving over 100 points on gear with these changes, which comes out to about the same as Guard 100 Guardsmen costing 5 instead of 4, except the value for me is spread out against every opponent. (which gets complicated, since there are lots of point drops, but that's the general idea.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Yarium wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Infantry Squad remaining 4ppm shows GW has no clue how to balance and has no clue as to what is going on with the game.


Like the internets notions around balance are something to go by.


No, but there's some definite hard facts that we can go bye;

#1 - In a straight up fight with no auras, stratagems, other units, etc. Guardsmen will win against Cultists. Why? Because they have a better armour save, and better Ld.
#2 - Infantry Squads also have access to a greater diversity of weapons, including weapons that are able to deal with enemy unit types far more efficiently than what Cultists are capable of dealing with (aka; "anti-monster/vehicle weapons" like Plasma, Melta, Lascannon, Autocannon).
#3 - Infantry Squads have a stronger link of purpose in conjunction with their army design than Cultists do. Infantry Squads hold objectives, and bubble-wrap units that are able to make game-influencing actions at long distance. As Chaos is a much more close-combat focused army, Cultists are rarely bubble-wrapping more expensive units. Both units are being taken because they are an inexpensive way of filling out force-organization slots, but Infantry Squads have additional functionality in relation to the rest of their army.

For all three of these reasons, each on their own, Guardsmen should cost the same, if not more than a Cultist.


Save it for the next CA. This road has been traveled 1000 times now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/07 19:11:00


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:


Given that the "proof-comparisons" people did were constantly vs. Marines, and the fact that so much of the marine army saw a drop in points, I think it's a done deal and works out fine. I feel like my army is saving over 100 points on gear with these changes, which comes out to about the same as Guard 100 Guardsmen costing 5 instead of 4, except the value for me is spread out against every opponent. (which gets complicated, since there are lots of point drops, but that's the general idea.)


Right - I agree with that. I also expected vanilla marines to go down a point, but the other changes essentially achieves the same effect.

It's all relative.
   
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Well, holy gak! Just tallied up my go to DG list- it's now 114pts cheaper.

Now, what to put in with those points...


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

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If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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That's just a silly outlook. At what point since the launch of 8th were GK nerfed?

First when razobacks and stormravens got priced hiked, because Gulliman they couldn't take and re-rolls they didn't have access to. Then before the edition started GW thought they smite was too strong, so they gave them baby smite, but forgot to do the same to other armies, so other armies were spaming smite just fine.
then there was the teleportation nerf, and the rule of 3 nerf that killed those armies that run 4-5 units of interceptors. Also each time other armies get new stuff and/or get fixs, but GK get nothing, this counts as a nerf, because everyone is moving forward and the GK are moving back.


I'm saying they could drop the cost of your current stratagems.

So to run those, Gk players would have to run other armies to get the CP. Why play GK then. Just take DW with plasma vets, some IG, much better army and unlike GK, the player doesn't have to worry that their army will suddenly get phased out, because of the "no GK primaris" thing. Also they could have done the right thing when there was a codex coming out, the FAQ, the CA, the other FAQ, why should they change the GK stratagems now ? they didn't even bother to give them formations or rules for vigilus. And it is hard to imagine a force of anti chaos anti demon dudes doesn't fight chaos and demons.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
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GW really needs to sort out the whole conscript vs guardsman issue. There is no way they're worth the same amount.
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Given that the "proof-comparisons" people did were constantly vs. Marines, and the fact that so much of the marine army saw a drop in points, I think it's a done deal and works out fine. I feel like my army is saving over 100 points on gear with these changes, which comes out to about the same as Guard 100 Guardsmen costing 5 instead of 4, except the value for me is spread out against every opponent. (which gets complicated, since there are lots of point drops, but that's the general idea.)


Right - I agree with that. I also expected vanilla marines to go down a point, but the other changes essentially achieves the same effect.

It's all relative.


Yeah, I think it works fine. More interesting to me on the Marine side is that GW has decided that +1 Attack and +1 Ld is worth 1 point. (Tacticals vs. Vets) Which is surprising, but I can see the logic to it. The extra attack is rarely used, and Ld. can be avoided easily.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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East Bay, Ca, US

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Some decent changes for Thousand Sons. Lots of rumors were total bs as usual.

I am sort of beside myself, however, that Cultists are 5, but IS and mortars are not even touched.


There are so many versions of CA flying around, they really put out a lot of honeypot versions this time.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
 
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