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I just noticed yet another derp on GW's part. Devastator centurions are down to 40 points base, but assault ones are unchanged. Not sure if this'll make devcents viable now, but only love assault cents got was free assault launchers and slightly cheaper hand guns.

 AnomanderRake wrote:


8e 40k isn't a game, it's a viral marketing campaign for Imperial Guardsmen/Imperial Knights.

If it is true, it isn't mentioned anywhere on their site, in their rule books or the codex. Although I must say I have not read the Knight codex, so maybe it is writen down there.

Dev cents are really only viable with HB and hurricane bolter build now. Grav cannon points didn't change (lol) single lasscannons are 25 pints still so taking 2 single las on anything is a huge waste of points. With 2 HB and hurricane they are 70 which is still pretty effing bad for a 3 wound model that moves 4 inches lol.

Karol wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:


8e 40k isn't a game, it's a viral marketing campaign for Imperial Guardsmen/Imperial Knights.

If it is true, it isn't mentioned anywhere on their site, in their rule books or the codex. Although I must say I have not read the Knight codex, so maybe it is writen down there.

Nope, but everyone I ask for advice on how to make Deathwatch/Custodes/GK better tells me I should buy some Guardsmen, so it's been remarkably successful at infiltrating the general population and getting them to do GW marketing's work for them.

Karol wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I think we're saying the same things from different perspectives.

Regardless as long as GW is changing points in the right ways everyone wins.

The only difference is choosing whether or not to be cynical about those changes.

Ok. will the CA changes make more people play GK, as in new people buy GK from GW? I think no. For people already with GK armies did anything new become good? Again no, the good stuff is the stuff people already had bought in 8th ed. So for GK players the changes were made to do what? Force people to buy more GK to have a legal sized army, without fixing the army? Or maybe make GK players buy another codex and another army, and hope that the GK player gets angry enought to buy a whole new army later on, seeing how more efficient anything he can ally in is?

I must be missing something about GW plans and GK. Point cost drops mean little when they are applied to units you take very few of like HQs or special characters, or never will take anyway because they are bad like special weapons, purifires etc The point costs mean even less when all armies get them. I would see the drops as a small buff to GK, if it was just GK only. But all armies got cheaper and if all armies got cheaper, and GK clearly did not get some whooping 50% drop in points, then the point change may as well have not happened. I will get 5 strikes and a rhino and my opponent will take 1-3 more units too, only his units will be better then anything I can take, so the gap will only get wider. Worse thing is that from a GK players perspective something like tau suits becoming playable or cheaper plasma is a huge problem. We can't just take 15 scouts and load up on characters, and call it a day adding a castellan.

Point drops absolutely matter for HQs as it makes it easier to make a battalion without sacrifices. GK aren't the army you slap a Castellan onto. They're the army you add the new artillery formation that stops the enemy from firing overwatch.

Strikes were never terrible and unfortunately you can't get force weapons for free. I get my guys for 18 in total (it was 20). You get yours for 21. We both cast baby smite (you're is shorter range). I die horribly if I fail. I can't cast if my caster dies. I have better guns, but you get more shots. I get a weaker version of always in cover. I have an invulnerable that only really comes into play mostly just against disintegrators.

My guys are a wet noodle in combat - yours are not. I pay for my one force weapon and I otherwise have one attack per model where you can get two for no cost.

I'd call that mostly fair. Your army is built around getting in people's faces, letting loose with your guns, and charging in. If you're not prepared to use the army in that way then, yes, you need to pick a different army, because that is what GK are built to do.

I don't get more shots. Your guys are both more resilient and cost less, so you can run more of them. Plus this is a theory army. In reality a GK army has to run strikes, while a 1ksons army will just run tzangors As melee goes all GK have 1A, you would be suprised how bad they do in melee. They die to hordes from attrition, real melee units just kill them off, they are ok at killing something like an msu tac squad. But even against those it is safer to use the stormbolters, because in shoting phase they don't hit back.

You can't get in to peoples faces with 1A. How the hell am I suppose to kill something like an IG or orc list in melee? they have more bodies then I can kill with bolters, in melee IG actually beats GK if they are catachan, and am not even going to comment on what orcs do to 1A GK in melee.

Heck I lost melee vs primaris, because they have more support options and my shoting can't kill gulliman fast enough, and he is a perfect counter for anything GK, save maybe for 1 NDKs and a draigo at the same time. Oddly enough marine players tend to target the NDKS a lot with their shoting.

 SHUPPET wrote:
5 point Cultists will still be played. People mass termagants. Termagants that can shoot twice, with better armor, and amazing buffs? 5 points is fair enough. CSM squads should have gotten a point reduction its insane to me that they didn't, especially the difference between loyalist and traitor Terminators? What the?

Swarmlord getting a price discount and the meta dominating Imperial soup getting left alone is just stupid.

I think it's an overall net positive. Baby steps. GW will get better at this and I think I'd rather a cautious approach than a heavy handed one.

Cultists have a 6+ save. That's not better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Karol wrote:

Bharring wrote:
@Karol: https://imgur.com/gallery/d8Ae4TN

ok thanks man. LoL interceptors costing the same as strikes and 39 termintors when other armies get theirs for 23.

Massive cuts on characters. Draigo is only 180, which is a steal. Psilencers and psycannons cut in half. GK termies still have force weapons. Not sure why CSM termies are 28 and loyalist are 23 though.

Screwey feature of kit pricing. Loyalist Terminators are stuck with powerfists, which means the bare minimum price is now 37pts (unless there's a change to powerfists or storm bolters I haven't noticed), while Chaos Terminators can just take power swords and come in at 34pts.

Which doesn't excuse making Chaos Terminators with powerfists 5pts more than an equivalent loyalist Terminator, but trying to separate out all the equipment prices from the unit prices leads to all kind of screwey oversights like that. Remember when Dire Avengers were 17pts/model because they had to give the shuriken catapult a price for putting it on an Autarch, but forgot to take the cost out of the Dire Avenger's price?

It's basically a 3 point power fist if you want Terminators. It's stupid silly and we need to let GW know.

We need to let them know politely, though, that it's not acceptable.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Dev cents are really only viable with HB and hurricane bolter build now. Grav cannon points didn't change (lol) single lasscannons are 25 pints still so taking 2 single las on anything is a huge waste of points. With 2 HB and hurricane they are 70 which is still pretty effing bad for a 3 wound model that moves 4 inches lol.

You do realize not one single weapon that Centurions can take changed in point cost, right? Nothing has changed about which loadouts are viable. I still like the Heavy Bolter / Centurion Missile Launcher better.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Karol wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:


8e 40k isn't a game, it's a viral marketing campaign for Imperial Guardsmen/Imperial Knights.

If it is true, it isn't mentioned anywhere on their site, in their rule books or the codex. Although I must say I have not read the Knight codex, so maybe it is writen down there.

Nope, but everyone I ask for advice on how to make Deathwatch/Custodes/GK better tells me I should buy some Guardsmen, so it's been remarkably successful at infiltrating the general population and getting them to do GW marketing's work for them.

At least with GK, that's not really an option. Taking a GK detachment with Guard means you are sacrificing points on more effective Guard options.

If you want to play competitively, I don't see a reason NOT to go mono-Guard right now.

Karol wrote:
I turn two of my paladins in to ancients or apothecaries, there are no models for them anyway, so I doubt anyone is going to care.

Looks at WIP GK Terminator Apothecary on desk

Regarding the bolded portion of your post there, yes, there are? They're build options from the plastic GK Terminator kit, with specific wargear (banner and Narthecium, respectively).

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Point drops absolutely matter for HQs as it makes it easier to make a battalion without sacrifices. GK aren't the army you slap a Castellan onto. They're the army you add the new artillery formation that stops the enemy from firing overwatch.

Strikes were never terrible and unfortunately you can't get force weapons for free. I get my guys for 18 in total (it was 20). You get yours for 21. We both cast baby smite (you're is shorter range). I die horribly if I fail. I can't cast if my caster dies. I have better guns, but you get more shots. I get a weaker version of always in cover. I have an invulnerable that only really comes into play mostly just against disintegrators.

My guys are a wet noodle in combat - yours are not. I pay for my one force weapon and I otherwise have one attack per model where you can get two for no cost.

I'd call that mostly fair. Your army is built around getting in people's faces, letting loose with your guns, and charging in. If you're not prepared to use the army in that way then, yes, you need to pick a different army, because that is what GK are built to do.

Hi Daedalus81!

While that's an interesting perspective, I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. Thousand Sons don't have the option of allying with a more efficient force like Imperial Guard. You do have Tzaangors, which is cool...

The fact GK can ally with Guard sets up a strange situation. Why take them at all if you can purchase more effective options from the allied force?

I mean, sure, it would be great to deep strike, hit a unit with artillery to stop overwatch, then charge in. But you still have to make that charge roll and the odds are against you doing it. Those Strike Squads still only have Marine saves and a single wound, meaning they are not wrecking face when they get there. Seems to me it would be more effective to just take some Medusa / Basilisk batteries, infantry squads, and some deep striking plasma vets for the same points and call it a day.

Not saying you are wrong here, but am saying this is a points-efficiency problem that's not easily dealt with via direct comparisons with units from other armies. You are right, Strikes should be better than Rubrics, but GW has presented GK with an existential challenge. Adding in a few cheap HQs doesn't address the problem.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I think we're saying the same things from different perspectives.

Regardless as long as GW is changing points in the right ways everyone wins.

The only difference is choosing whether or not to be cynical about those changes.

Ok. will the CA changes make more people play GK, as in new people buy GK from GW? I think no. For people already with GK armies did anything new become good? Again no, the good stuff is the stuff people already had bought in 8th ed. So for GK players the changes were made to do what? Force people to buy more GK to have a legal sized army, without fixing the army? Or maybe make GK players buy another codex and another army, and hope that the GK player gets angry enought to buy a whole new army later on, seeing how more efficient anything he can ally in is?

I must be missing something about GW plans and GK. Point cost drops mean little when they are applied to units you take very few of like HQs or special characters, or never will take anyway because they are bad like special weapons, purifires etc The point costs mean even less when all armies get them. I would see the drops as a small buff to GK, if it was just GK only. But all armies got cheaper and if all armies got cheaper, and GK clearly did not get some whooping 50% drop in points, then the point change may as well have not happened. I will get 5 strikes and a rhino and my opponent will take 1-3 more units too, only his units will be better then anything I can take, so the gap will only get wider. Worse thing is that from a GK players perspective something like tau suits becoming playable or cheaper plasma is a huge problem. We can't just take 15 scouts and load up on characters, and call it a day adding a castellan.

Point drops absolutely matter for HQs as it makes it easier to make a battalion without sacrifices. GK aren't the army you slap a Castellan onto. They're the army you add the new artillery formation that stops the enemy from firing overwatch.

Strikes were never terrible and unfortunately you can't get force weapons for free. I get my guys for 18 in total (it was 20). You get yours for 21. We both cast baby smite (you're is shorter range). I die horribly if I fail. I can't cast if my caster dies. I have better guns, but you get more shots. I get a weaker version of always in cover. I have an invulnerable that only really comes into play mostly just against disintegrators.

My guys are a wet noodle in combat - yours are not. I pay for my one force weapon and I otherwise have one attack per model where you can get two for no cost.

I'd call that mostly fair. Your army is built around getting in people's faces, letting loose with your guns, and charging in. If you're not prepared to use the army in that way then, yes, you need to pick a different army, because that is what GK are built to do.

Wrong, he isn't' playing the army wrong, no one is.

They suck because they have reduced capabilities in everything; nothing you say will change that.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Point drops absolutely matter for HQs as it makes it easier to make a battalion without sacrifices. GK aren't the army you slap a Castellan onto. They're the army you add the new artillery formation that stops the enemy from firing overwatch.

Strikes were never terrible and unfortunately you can't get force weapons for free. I get my guys for 18 in total (it was 20). You get yours for 21. We both cast baby smite (you're is shorter range). I die horribly if I fail. I can't cast if my caster dies. I have better guns, but you get more shots. I get a weaker version of always in cover. I have an invulnerable that only really comes into play mostly just against disintegrators.

My guys are a wet noodle in combat - yours are not. I pay for my one force weapon and I otherwise have one attack per model where you can get two for no cost.

I'd call that mostly fair. Your army is built around getting in people's faces, letting loose with your guns, and charging in. If you're not prepared to use the army in that way then, yes, you need to pick a different army, because that is what GK are built to do.

Hi Daedalus81!

While that's an interesting perspective, I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. Thousand Sons don't have the option of allying with a more efficient force like Imperial Guard. You do have Tzaangors, which is cool...

The fact GK can ally with Guard sets up a strange situation. Why take them at all if you can purchase more effective options from the allied force?

I mean, sure, it would be great to deep strike, hit a unit with artillery to stop overwatch, then charge in. But you still have to make that charge roll and the odds are against you doing it. Those Strike Squads still only have Marine saves and a single wound, meaning they are not wrecking face when they get there. Seems to me it would be more effective to just take some Medusa / Basilisk batteries, infantry squads, and some deep striking plasma vets for the same points and call it a day.

Not saying you are wrong here, but am saying this is a points-efficiency problem that's not easily dealt with via direct comparisons with units from other armies. You are right, Strikes should be better than Rubrics, but GW has presented GK with an existential challenge. Adding in a few cheap HQs doesn't address the problem.

Let me preface with this statement - I absolutely agree GK need more - we will probably disagree on how much though. Additionally, I have come to the conclusion that these changes *should* be in the FAQ. Originally I expected them in CA, but I changed my mind as FAQs are for modifying existing rules and CA is for new rules.

but am saying this is a points-efficiency problem that's not easily dealt with via direct comparisons with units from other armies. You are right, Strikes should be better than Rubrics

Yes, I agree - direct comparisons miss a TON of information about an army. I was arguing against the general negative sentiment towards Strikes. That said direct comparisons DO have some place and attempting to compare army to army gets you here:

Seems to me it would be more effective to just take some Medusa / Basilisk batteries, infantry squads, and some deep striking plasma vets for the same points and call it a day.

If everyone boils down to, "why don't we just play IG", then why ever discuss an army at all? If we can't understand the army's strengths despite its weaknesses we'll never come to a better understanding, because that very statement - why not just do X.

If I want to play a crazy Psyker army I do Thousand Sons.
If I want to crush people with tanks I play IG.
If I want a super-elite and armed to the hilt psyker army I do GK.

At the end of the day you can't take GK and not use the gear they have. It just won't work for points efficiency. Could we make Strikes super cheap? Sure. But where is that line? A VV with a power sword and pistol is 18 points right now. If I said for 3 points more you can get a force weapon and storm bolter instead would you say ok?

Karol wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I think we're saying the same things from different perspectives.

Regardless as long as GW is changing points in the right ways everyone wins.

The only difference is choosing whether or not to be cynical about those changes.

Ok. will the CA changes make more people play GK, as in new people buy GK from GW? I think no. For people already with GK armies did anything new become good? Again no, the good stuff is the stuff people already had bought in 8th ed. So for GK players the changes were made to do what? Force people to buy more GK to have a legal sized army, without fixing the army? Or maybe make GK players buy another codex and another army, and hope that the GK player gets angry enought to buy a whole new army later on, seeing how more efficient anything he can ally in is?

I must be missing something about GW plans and GK. Point cost drops mean little when they are applied to units you take very few of like HQs or special characters, or never will take anyway because they are bad like special weapons, purifires etc The point costs mean even less when all armies get them. I would see the drops as a small buff to GK, if it was just GK only. But all armies got cheaper and if all armies got cheaper, and GK clearly did not get some whooping 50% drop in points, then the point change may as well have not happened. I will get 5 strikes and a rhino and my opponent will take 1-3 more units too, only his units will be better then anything I can take, so the gap will only get wider. Worse thing is that from a GK players perspective something like tau suits becoming playable or cheaper plasma is a huge problem. We can't just take 15 scouts and load up on characters, and call it a day adding a castellan.

We got it, you are angry because grey knights were not reduced to the costs of guardsmen, don't need to make 100 posts a day about this.
GK received LOADS of buffs, many more than other factions. Contrarily to other factions though, they received them on units that were actually taken, while all the other factions didn't see a single buff to the external power, they were all internal adjustments without any real effect on the competitiveness of the faction. Necrons, Admech and GK were the only factions actually buffed (and tank commanders, for some reason).

You can say that the buffs were not enough, and i actually agree with that, the buffs GK received were not enough, but saying that everyone got better and GK were left in the dust is just plain untrue and makes you look like a troll.

Griping about the GK not being effective against some armies seems to forget the GK are clearly written and created solely to fight daemons. They are a specialist army meant to engage daemons, period.

At most they should be used against daemons, or as an ally to imperial guard against forces containing daemons.

I am not attacking people who want to run GK armies, and I understand gw wants to sell as much as it can, but having a GK force fighting tau, Orks, necrons, etc is taking them waaay out of their clearly stated mission.

Karol wrote:
I don't get more shots.

Twice the shots. I have bolters. AP2 bolters, right? Check this out when shooting marines:

2 * .666 * .5 * .333 = .222 // Storm bolter
1 * .666 * .5 * .666 = .222 // Inferno bolter

When a gun doubles the shots for the same strength it's effectively identical to half the shots with AP2. In fact you're twice as good vs Orks with out without a KFF and I'm spinning my wheels on them with AP2 when they don't have the KFF.

Your guys are both more resilient and cost less, so you can run more of them.

Barely less. Before CA I paid 3 points less. Now it's 24 less for 10 and 9 less for 5 - not exactly massive. I have weak always in cover, but you have advantages, too that are often never stated in these comparison.

Tzaangors are to Rubrics as IS are to GK. You've created a mental block, because you end up reaching into another codex - most people do that now. The vast majority of marines do that now. GK is not immune to this need. I even reach outside my book to fill things I don't have - like morale immunity or more varied anti-tank.

And unfortunately you do need Falchions for GK for 2A (proxied). There is no worth to the other weapons at this time. Imagine what Orks do to me.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Griping about the GK not being effective against some armies seems to forget the GK are clearly written and created solely to fight daemons. They are a specialist army meant to engage daemons, period.

At most they should be used against daemons, or as an ally to imperial guard against forces containing daemons.

I am not attacking people who want to run GK armies, and I understand gw wants to sell as much as it can, but having a GK force fighting tau, Orks, necrons, etc is taking them waaay out of their clearly stated mission.

40k does not work like that.

Marines are supposed to be a fast strike force - but they keep adding units to them to try and give them "everything"

Spoletta wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
The fact an annihilation barge is now 33 points cheaper in total makes them a very attractive option.

Immortals and deathmarks getting a 2 point drop whilst warriors are now a point cheaper brings smiles to metal faces.

No because they are still saddled with Tesla destructors, which are useless. It's nice that you can take a gauss cannon on it though, but being a double cost destroyer probably does not rank as attractive.

How the hell is a tesla destructor useless?

By typical Dakka hyperbole. It if can't oneshot a knight it's useless, and if it can it's still useless because it doesn't delete 40 guardsmen at the same time. A twin tesla destructor inflicts 2,64 damages on a ravager, double the damage inflicted by the gauss cannon on the same target. I wouldn't call it useless.

Or perhaps because Tesla imortals which are taken as a troop tax anyway, do a better job for less points, and can be the target of MWBD making them even better. Tesla destructors don't have a role. They are overpriced for a job that's done cheaper elsewhere. Necrons lack options for elite infantry, monsters and vehicles. The fluff says barges should fill this role. They don't. It's regularly remarked that making them damage 2 and AP -1 would solve the problem, even if it comes with a point increase. Necrons had so few options, but stalkers are now open, so we'll see what happens. Necrons might make it to mid tier, but with all the other changes they may just stay with gk at the bottom.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Ah, the typical inane trolling of 'hurr durr if you don't like something sell your army that you've invested a ton of time and money into for a pittance.'

I'll remember this comment when the nerf bat next hits TS and you express any disappointment.

What is your beef? Ork codex and CA was likely written at about the same time - so no changes - this should have been expected.

Current orks are top tier. An unbuffed ork boy was undercosted at 6 points. A 7 point buffed boy with traits and +1 attack is actually better than the 6 point boy was. DE with no changes is actually kind of suprising - I am assuming they used DE as baseline for everything and tried to get every codex up to that level. They did fail miserably at this - but that seems to be what happened.

I agree about CA and ork codex, I wasn't expecting anything major, but at the least I wanted them to give us more in our errata or maybe throw in something in White dwarf for the issue with points for Orkz.

Your next point though is patently false. An unbuffed ork boy was priced correctly at 6, at 7 it is over priced. A 7point buffed boy with traits and +1 attack is actually WORSE than the 6 point boy with the same buffs.

Movement, stayed the same, so they are as slow as ever. We can spend 2 CP to deep strike them though? or my favorite, give them evil sunz and make them faster and better at getting into assault.
Ranged damage. With Dakkax3 orkz are AS good per point as they were without Dakkax3 at 6ppm. So this is a wash....sort of, because realistically boyz prefer Pistols not shootas so if anything we are now paying for extra crap we don't use in 90% of the circumstances.
Close combat: Please explain to me how Less attacks for more points is better? The only CC buff you get is if you take Goffs and then guess what? It works out to being AS GOOD as 6ppm boyz
Durability: Here is where you really lose it. 2 Kultures give you a boost to durability, 1 gives you a 6+FNP which brings them back to where a 6ppm boy was in regards to durability per point. The other faction gives you a 6+ Invuln but that is meh at best since very rarely were people putting -1 or more AP weapons into boyz, so without a doubt durability and point per wound went down by 16% with this.
OVERALL: Each kulture gives a specific buff to boyz, but unless you incorporate 2 or more you are actually WORSE then before and since you can't incorporate 2 or more than boyz are worse point for point then they were in the index where orkz were placing mid to low tier in tournaments relying exclusively on boyz to do the lifting (180-240 boyz per list).

So you can sit there and argue all day that ork boyz needed a nerf, i'll disagree but at least that is a genuine argument you can debate on, but when you tell me that increasing the cost of boyz by 16.6% and not buffing all of their stats by a similar margin is a buff than I have to call BS on you.

A 7point buffed boy with traits and +1 attack is actually WORSE than the 6 point boy with the same buffs.

Yeah ofc - but a lot better than a 6 point boy without them. Evil suns is trait alone is worth 1 point. Plus you get dakka dakka and +1 attack. It's not even worth arguing.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Spoiler:

Hi Daedalus81!

While that's an interesting perspective, I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. Thousand Sons don't have the option of allying with a more efficient force like Imperial Guard. You do have Tzaangors, which is cool...

The fact GK can ally with Guard sets up a strange situation. Why take them at all if you can purchase more effective options from the allied force?

I mean, sure, it would be great to deep strike, hit a unit with artillery to stop overwatch, then charge in. But you still have to make that charge roll and the odds are against you doing it. Those Strike Squads still only have Marine saves and a single wound, meaning they are not wrecking face when they get there. Seems to me it would be more effective to just take some Medusa / Basilisk batteries, infantry squads, and some deep striking plasma vets for the same points and call it a day.

Not saying you are wrong here, but am saying this is a points-efficiency problem that's not easily dealt with via direct comparisons with units from other armies. You are right, Strikes should be better than Rubrics, but GW has presented GK with an existential challenge. Adding in a few cheap HQs doesn't address the problem.

 Xenomancers wrote:
A 7point buffed boy with traits and +1 attack is actually WORSE than the 6 point boy with the same buffs.

Yeah ofc - but a lot better than a 6 point boy without them. Evil suns is trait alone is worth 1 point. Plus you get dakka dakka and +1 attack. It's not even worth arguing.

Coooooool, shame nobody else got a nerf like we did... in fact Warriors are actually now cheaper with all the buffs! Oh... apart from chaos now... welcome to the party!

Seriously, everyone is like "wait until the CA 2017, Wait until Big FAQ 2018, Wait until Big FAQ 2 2018, wait until CA 2018" and now CA is out GK players are being told to wait another 6 months! Or to buy a freaking new codex?!?! They should have got it right the first time! I mean they do have 30 years of experience! And, it was early in 8th so it's understandable, if they got the codex so wrong they should give you all a new free digital one! I mean I play 40k because I love collecting the models and painting (the game is kinda an after thought) but come on!

On a good note, the missions in this book look pretty balanced and should honestly be made the primary missions while the older ones should be thrown in the trash.

How many years will go by before people realise the CA is for points changes, FAQs are for rules changes?

Why the mechanicus have a lot of points drop？Are they really weak before？

A10CCZ wrote:
Why the mechanicus have a lot of points drop？Are they really weak before？

They were, but with GW's seemingly dart board approach to buffs that isn't necessarily why they got them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:
How many years will go by before people realise the CA is for points changes, FAQs are for rules changes?

When GW stops violating that rule itself.

A10CCZ wrote:
Why the mechanicus have a lot of points drop？Are they really weak before？

Hard to say. Their approach to fix destroyers is interesting. Drop to base cost of less than an intercessor for a MUCH better unit. Wish they had done the same thing for centurions.

 Dysartes wrote:

Karol wrote:
I turn two of my paladins in to ancients or apothecaries, there are no models for them anyway, so I doubt anyone is going to care.

Looks at WIP GK Terminator Apothecary on desk

Regarding the bolded portion of your post there, yes, there are? They're build options from the plastic GK Terminator kit, with specific wargear (banner and Narthecium, respectively).

well in that case I don't know what to do. I don't have plastic termintors, only metal ones and one is resin, which is Draigo.

Seriously, everyone is like "wait until the CA 2017, Wait until Big FAQ 2018, Wait until Big FAQ 2 2018, wait until CA 2018" and now CA is out GK players are being told to wait another 6 months! Or to buy a freaking new codex?!?!

I would be ok, if they just came up, told that they do not plan to update anything in the rules or the model range, and that the stuff they got is all they will get. I would be ok if they were left with the index option. Instead we got a separate section about how cool paladins or purfires are going to be after the CA change. I know it is me, am easy to trick and I have problems with letting stuff go, I generaly don't get the subtel stuff and hints, and need everything plain text. The worse thing about it all is that it damages my health, the thing I am scared the most is either getting overhyped and doing something stupid in RL, or being so down that the anti depresants stop working. I already had to take double the dose last night, and I can't do it every night.

Maybe they will errata the CA or something. I don't know. I don't even think there is enough GK players to generate enough push on GW for them to act.

Game designers are continuing to show favoritism to certain factions instead of creating a satisfying game experience for everyone. The problem is, I think they believe they are improving the game and 8th is a sea-change from what came before. It's that lack of self-awareness that really gets to me.

And to make matters worse GK the anti demon faction in lore, is the worse army to fight vs demons. It is so sad, it is almost funny.

We got it, you are angry because grey knights were not reduced to the costs of guardsmen, don't need to make 100 posts a day about this.
GK received LOADS of buffs, many more than other factions. Contrarily to other factions though, they received them on units that were actually taken, while all the other factions didn't see a single buff to the external power, they were all internal adjustments without any real effect on the competitiveness of the faction. Necrons, Admech and GK were the only factions actually buffed (and tank commanders, for some reason).

You can say that the buffs were not enough, and i actually agree with that, the buffs GK received were not enough, but saying that everyone got better and GK were left in the dust is just plain untrue and makes you look like a troll.

Ok, I guess we are going to have to wait 2-3 months and see how many GK armies will be played around the world. To me if all armies get point drops, then the point drops to fix something would have to be as you said. Something super drastic, like a full armed strike costing 14pts. the drops are not enough to fix anything. There is no buffs to GK, when the army is already over priced. If I play a 2000pts army, get a 200pts points drop, but my army is over priced by 300pts. Then the drop isn't helping me much. If at the same time my opponents IG soup army gets the same 200pts drop, but his army was at worse costing real 2000pts, and if it goes by what haters say it was having 100-150 free IG points, then where is the GK buff.

You compare GK to units tzeench armies don't even use. And use it as a supposed example as GK getting better, when they still both cost worse and shot worse. But hey they are better at melee. They can't reach it, but that is no problem right? Or if they do it is something that is actually good at melee and they just die.

 Xenomancers wrote:
A 7point buffed boy with traits and +1 attack is actually WORSE than the 6 point boy with the same buffs.

Yeah ofc - but a lot better than a 6 point boy without them. Evil suns is trait alone is worth 1 point. Plus you get dakka dakka and +1 attack. It's not even worth arguing.

I know we're just feeding a fed horse at this point, but how much did Eldar pay for -1 to be hit trait, for example?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
A 7point buffed boy with traits and +1 attack is actually WORSE than the 6 point boy with the same buffs.

Yeah ofc - but a lot better than a 6 point boy without them. Evil suns is trait alone is worth 1 point. Plus you get dakka dakka and +1 attack. It's not even worth arguing.

I know we're just feeding a fed horse at this point, but how much did Eldar pay for -1 to be hit trait, for example?

Did eldar units also gain 2 abilities on their data sheets like ork boys did? Retorical question OFC.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
A 7point buffed boy with traits and +1 attack is actually WORSE than the 6 point boy with the same buffs.

Yeah ofc - but a lot better than a 6 point boy without them. Evil suns is trait alone is worth 1 point. Plus you get dakka dakka and +1 attack. It's not even worth arguing.

I know we're just feeding a fed horse at this point, but how much did Eldar pay for -1 to be hit trait, for example?

Did eldar units also gain 2 abilities on their data sheets like ork boys did? Retorical question OFC.

Are ork units priced to be worthwhile shooters?
BS5+? Paying more for every weapon despite them being the same stats or inferior?

The entire army pays for DDD on the handful of units that can actually use it.