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 Continuity wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Leak I saw said 115 per oblit. So yeah, useless.

Yikes, so Oblits are out, so the only thing we still have that performs is dp's right?

Don't worry, they'll give DP an extra toughness and attack, make it 10 wounds then call it a buff

Ha ha ha, they could also fix the three codex soup shenanigans instead......

Frankly it sucks but he we now got "buffed" Oblits at a price point were a hellbrute is...

You guys are insane. There are easy ways to make the Obliterators more durable already, and with the extra shots we have an excellent castle.

On top of that, trying to make the requirements to fill a Brigade with non-useless units became so much easier.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys are insane. There are easy ways to make the Obliterators more durable already, and with the extra shots we have an excellent castle.

On top of that, trying to make the requirements to fill a Brigade with non-useless units became so much easier.

Assuming there's even a reasonable answer as to why you'd want a brigade of CSM, you're aware you can get a squad of autohavocs for 105, right?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys are insane. There are easy ways to make the Obliterators more durable already, and with the extra shots we have an excellent castle.

On top of that, trying to make the requirements to fill a Brigade with non-useless units became so much easier.

50% more shots for a more than 75% points increase.

Not worth it.

I'm thinking of getting some Berzerkers, but if I do so, I want to replace their heads and maybe even some torsos with that of AOS' Blood Warriors and Wrathmongers. I don't like the current 'bunny ears' look of Berzerker helmets, and the vampire-esque head just looks silly.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm thinking of getting some Berzerkers, but if I do so, I want to replace their heads and maybe even some torsos with that of AOS' Blood Warriors and Wrathmongers. I don't like the current 'bunny ears' look of Berzerker helmets, and the vampire-esque head just looks silly.

Current? It's /always/ been like that.

Feel free to give me crap if I am wrong, but I really think this is a Forgebane scenario where the points/power in the mini codexes is from a year ago and like the Armigers, when a new codex hits later this year the costs will drop. It's a similar style box set, released about the same time as Forgebane. Just use this opportunity to pick up cheap oblits while they are useless in the short term

I am facing off against a Ynnari army of Eldar/ Harlis for the first time, anyone got advice on what the heck to bring? I got mostly world eaters, demons and Thousand sons to choose from. They'll be bringing all the usual best suspects of the army.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Feel free to give me crap if I am wrong, but I really think this is a Forgebane scenario where the points/power in the mini codexes is from a year ago and like the Armigers, when a new codex hits later this year the costs will drop. It's a similar style box set, released about the same time as Forgebane. Just use this opportunity to pick up cheap oblits while they are useless in the short term

I'm expecting this also. A new Chaos codex is likely at some point this year to consolidate all the new units etc that are being released and units like Oblits I wouldn't be surprised if they received a full overhaul.

I find it strange that they would sculpt them with normal weapons instead of some sort of "fleshmetal" cannon to represent their current rules if they were going to keep that going forward.. I could be wrong

Malefic leak.


Some pretty good looking spells in there! MoP seems like he'll make a very nice support character, either buffing daemon/engine heavy armies, or summoning in daemon sideboards (yay, not giving up a movement phase!).
Comboing a warpsmith and MoP (Cursed earth and Sacrifice) with a lord of skulls or kytan seems like it'd make for an extremely durable hammer.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys are insane. There are easy ways to make the Obliterators more durable already, and with the extra shots we have an excellent castle.

On top of that, trying to make the requirements to fill a Brigade with non-useless units became so much easier.

50% more shots for a more than 75% points increase.

Not worth it.

You forgot the extra wound and toughness and not being helpless in melee (which was an issue beforehand).
Sure, though. Not worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 McGibs wrote:
Malefic leak.


Some pretty good looking spells in there! MoP seems like he'll make a very nice support character, either buffing daemon/engine heavy armies, or summoning in daemon sideboards (yay, not giving up a movement phase!).
Comboing a warpsmith and MoP (Cursed earth and Sacrifice) with a lord of skulls or kytan seems like it'd make for an extremely durable hammer.

I'm thinking you can make an argument for a Word Bearer Master of Possession as a summoner. Pop the strategem for your first attempt, and then summon again with this power.

Nearby Venomcrawler to buff the rolls, would also be cool.

I'm thinking you can make an argument for a Word Bearer Master of Possession as a summoner. Pop the strategem for your first attempt, and then summon again with this power.

4 times in 1 turn with the chaos demon stratagem to let a character summon a 2nd time. Once in move phase, once in psychic.

Dactylartha wrote:

I'm thinking you can make an argument for a Word Bearer Master of Possession as a summoner. Pop the strategem for your first attempt, and then summon again with this power.

4 times in 1 turn with the chaos demon stratagem to let a character summon a 2nd time. Once in move phase, once in psychic.

Daemon strats only work on Daemon Codex units.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys are insane. There are easy ways to make the Obliterators more durable already, and with the extra shots we have an excellent castle.

On top of that, trying to make the requirements to fill a Brigade with non-useless units became so much easier.

50% more shots for a more than 75% points increase.

Not worth it.

You forgot the extra wound and toughness and not being helpless in melee (which was an issue beforehand).
Sure, though. Not worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 McGibs wrote:
Malefic leak.


Some pretty good looking spells in there! MoP seems like he'll make a very nice support character, either buffing daemon/engine heavy armies, or summoning in daemon sideboards (yay, not giving up a movement phase!).
Comboing a warpsmith and MoP (Cursed earth and Sacrifice) with a lord of skulls or kytan seems like it'd make for an extremely durable hammer.

I'm thinking you can make an argument for a Word Bearer Master of Possession as a summoner. Pop the strategem for your first attempt, and then summon again with this power.

A: the melee of a oblit is useless, so the same scenario happens as does with GK, paying more for something you are not going to use.

B. +1 W /T ok there is an argument to be made, problem there is that oblit killerweapons ( plasma, etc.) still take the same ammount of firepower to roast one.
Small arms is only the bolter that suffers against it and the firewarriors, lasguns remains the same.
So basically a negligible buff.

C: i get 50% more dakka on a fire and forget unit because Oblits mostlikely will not survive a full gameround, basically the stat that matters the Most on them, i pay however more then 2/3rds more now.

D: why field one oblit when I can field a havoc squad with autocannons? For the same price.

Summa sumarum Oblits got nerfed.

Also lol on fielding a brigade out of csm, if you need a brigade take R&H instead that has an actual usefull and effective hs slot that is cheaper and ignores los.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Dactylartha wrote:

I'm thinking you can make an argument for a Word Bearer Master of Possession as a summoner. Pop the strategem for your first attempt, and then summon again with this power.

4 times in 1 turn with the chaos demon stratagem to let a character summon a 2nd time. Once in move phase, once in psychic.

Daemon strats only work on Daemon Codex units.

Only the ones that target a DAEMON are restricted to codex daemons. The summon strats target CHAOS CHARACTER and aren't restricted to daemon codex characters, provided you have a daemons detachment to unlock the stratagems.

Good o'l chaos players.... salty as ever.

You go ahead and take that "Autocannon" havoc team for 105 that will die to a cough turn one as soon as the game starts. The Obliterator on the other hand is guaranteed a deepstrike alpha regardless of opponent.

Hmm. I’m in the ‘cautiously optimistic, will field Newblits’ camp, and I’m not 100% sold on Malefic.

Incursion removes the Summoning penalty I never cared about (MW risk), makes somewhat redundant my Word Bearers Stratagem (though it would make summoning a PL17 GD somewhat less unreliable), and fails to add what made Summoning good in 6/7ed - deep strike and Summon. This MoP hasn’t got a jump pack or TDA. Can’t even take a fast mount. And you still need to budget Reinforcement Points and hope you don’t roll low. It does elevate Summoning’s usefulness, thing is it’s raised from ‘garbage’ to ‘unlikely gimmick’.

Sacrifice can put MWs on a character in an environment where Vindicares just got a buff and several sniper units are going to arrive. My regular opponent loves snipers. So, that’s only ever get used via Cultists from me.

Mutated Invigoration is exactly the sort of thing we need to make more expensive Oblits viable, but also has a significant chance of failing. When your Oblits die, it’s a wasted spell, unless you’re doing a full DEITY soup list. Interesting potential with Possessed, though.

Possession is the sort of thing where... everyone’s going to end up with a story about when Bjorn had torn through your lines, and you used a Chaos Familiar to Switch your now-useless MI for Possession, and killed Bjorn and his explosion killed Njal and a Lone Wolf. It’s completely pointless to actually give it to this character that can’t take a jump pack, TDA, Fiend, or Disc.

Cursed Earth could be decent with Tzeentch. Shame about the LEGION restriction. Unlikely that TS can take this guy, so to really leverage it you’ve got to cast it and the Tzeentch spell, which adds up to an unacceptable level of compound risk. Something’s going to get DtW’d or roll snake eyes. Taking the two is about redundancy, not supercharging.

Which brings me onto Infernal Power. This feels like something of a poisoned apple. IP + MI CAN make Oblits utterly lethal, BUT most of the time you’re not going to successfully cast BOTH. And if you fail to cast IP, and you don’t have a CL or DP pep-talking the Oblits, you’re not rerolling 1’s to hit. If you DO have a CL or DP nearby (and ‘nearby’ is a relative term for Word Bearers using our Legion Warlord Trait), then half of IP’s effect is redundant. Not sold on running forwards with the dinobots and Defilers, though - this isn’t a character I want within counter-charge distance, or dancing a jig in the open in a Sniper-rich environment. You will get a game where you cast both, and there’s no Vect/GSC to embargo VotLW-EC, and your opponent will forever be salty about CSM being broken.

Honestly not sure what I think about it all, tbh.

I'll play the new oblits more often than the old, because I have only two painted and 115points are still easier to fit into a list than 195.
But I also agree that they're rather expensive compared to a Helbrute which is appropriately priced right now.

Hi everybody,
I always toyed with the idea to start a small chaos force, but I was put off by the old marines and the bad support for units like havocs etc. With the new chaos stuff at the horizon, I pondered about my options.

I was thinking Iron Warriors, because I like their fluff, you can go little infantry, and they are rather fast to paint

What are some (fluffy) strategies for Iron warriors? Things I thought about:

- Fearless cultist blobs
- DP with the Fleshmetall Relic
- Hellbrutes, Dakka- and Maulerfiends (the pricedrop made them viable, or so I heard)

Marking everything as Slaanesh (rulewise) gives me the most mileage for a shooty army, correct?

Any other things I have not considered?

Thanks in Advance!
Best regards

 Ap0k wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys are insane. There are easy ways to make the Obliterators more durable already, and with the extra shots we have an excellent castle.

On top of that, trying to make the requirements to fill a Brigade with non-useless units became so much easier.

Assuming there's even a reasonable answer as to why you'd want a brigade of CSM, you're aware you can get a squad of autohavocs for 105, right?

I was thinking about that as well, but a unit of 5 autohavocs is rather compearable to the new obliterator. Offense wise, the havocs have 2 more attacks but those attacks have rolled the equivalent of 1-1-2 on the obliterator's d3, which is almost the lowest than an oblit can go. Havocs have double the range, but oblit can deepstrike closer and has assault weapons so he can move and shoot. Defense wise, The havocs have 1 more wound but start degrading after the second, the oblit has one more toughness, better armor and an invul save and does not degrade until all the wounds finish.

Still I am not having a party for 115 pt of obliterators by any means, but the comparison is much closer than it looks.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys are insane. There are easy ways to make the Obliterators more durable already, and with the extra shots we have an excellent castle.

On top of that, trying to make the requirements to fill a Brigade with non-useless units became so much easier.

50% more shots for a more than 75% points increase.

Not worth it.

You forgot the extra wound and toughness and not being helpless in melee (which was an issue beforehand).
Sure, though. Not worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 McGibs wrote:
Malefic leak.


Some pretty good looking spells in there! MoP seems like he'll make a very nice support character, either buffing daemon/engine heavy armies, or summoning in daemon sideboards (yay, not giving up a movement phase!).
Comboing a warpsmith and MoP (Cursed earth and Sacrifice) with a lord of skulls or kytan seems like it'd make for an extremely durable hammer.

I'm thinking you can make an argument for a Word Bearer Master of Possession as a summoner. Pop the strategem for your first attempt, and then summon again with this power.

A: the melee of a oblit is useless, so the same scenario happens as does with GK, paying more for something you are not going to use.

B. +1 W /T ok there is an argument to be made, problem there is that oblit killerweapons ( plasma, etc.) still take the same ammount of firepower to roast one.
Small arms is only the bolter that suffers against it and the firewarriors, lasguns remains the same.
So basically a negligible buff.

C: i get 50% more dakka on a fire and forget unit because Oblits mostlikely will not survive a full gameround, basically the stat that matters the Most on them, i pay however more then 2/3rds more now.

D: why field one oblit when I can field a havoc squad with autocannons? For the same price.

Summa sumarum Oblits got nerfed.

Also lol on fielding a brigade out of csm, if you need a brigade take R&H instead that has an actual usefull and effective hs slot that is cheaper and ignores los.

1. You know as well as I do that GKs have several other issues that are affecting them. They can get into melee just fine, and they simply pay too much for being able to everything so to speak. If Oblits could cast Baby Smite they'd probably be 20 points more expensive because GW.
Oblits were always more defensive when needing to melee. Now we can be ultra aggressive like when they had their Power Fists.
2. Plasma is a non-issue so I don't know why you bring that up. So outside super niche weapons, their durability did increase incredibly. Lascannons now have a super low chance to one shot, DD3 weapons now lack that 33% chance to kill one immediately, even Disintegrators wound slightly less. Not to mention the greater durability vs small arms.
3. Obliterators were never a unit that survives. This is a strange complaint, especially when those other "fire and forget" units aren't as offensive.
4. Havocs have much less resilience vs several different squads firing at it can't move and fire effectively whereas Oblits can go where they please, and lastly Oblits have protection via being able to hide and Deep Strike.

1. True but also part of their overpricing, or do you equip marine bodies out of your own will with power weapons?

2 non issue?

3.wrong Oblits, were used as long range support before, when they still had other weapons.

4. Havocs are also infinitely more easily hideable.

So you were saying?

Even if havocs hide, they only achieve the same armor save as the obliterator already has in stock.

An oblit at 115 is expensive, but not crazy more expensive compared to the 5 autohavocs. Of course the havocs are getting a new box with potentially new guns soon so...

My main issue is that i am paying for a fire and forget unit a price i can get a regular unit for.

Ahriman21 wrote:
Good o'l chaos players.... salty as ever.

You go ahead and take that "Autocannon" havoc team for 105 that will die to a cough turn one as soon as the game starts. The Obliterator on the other hand is guaranteed a deepstrike alpha regardless of opponent.

Dakka is loaded with hyperbole.

If you think it's bad now, wait until they do update the codex and endless cacophony and veterans of the long war disappear or change entirely.


EDIT: The fact that someone brought up auto canon havocs thinking it boosted their argument is hilarious to me. It makes the new oblits look better if anything. You couldn't compare them in the past because oblits were a 3 minimum, so you HAD to spend 195 on them. Now with a single, I'd argue the opposite, why would you ever take auto canon havocs over a single oblit? He's more durable, and guaranteed to get ideal positioning and at least a volley off. It's not even close. In cover he has a 1+ 5++ and 4 T5 wounds compared to a 2+ on 5 T4 wounds that are susceptible to morale. They also lose shots as they take damage lol.

Not Online!!! wrote:
My main issue is that i am paying for a fire and forget unit a price i can get a regular unit for.

We were paying 195 pts before as a minimum so...

Still I would prefer them in the 100 pt slot.

Not Online!!! wrote:
1. True but also part of their overpricing, or do you equip marine bodies out of your own will with power weapons?

2 non issue?

3.wrong Oblits, were used as long range support before, when they still had other weapons.

4. Havocs are also infinitely more easily hideable.

So you were saying?

1. It would depend the unit. Vanguard are variable (though still better with all Chainswords typically), Grey Knight Strikes and Interceptors are somewhat playable with Falchions and are held back by other issues in the codex, Berserker Marines always pay for the Chainaxe, etc.
2. Yeah, Plasma IS a non-issue. Other weapons are, but Oblits increased in durability to a few of those weapons.
3. Long range support? With all the two or three weapons you'd choose to use, all of which required you to be close? Lol k
4. If people can hide a Dread, they can hide an Oblit, which has an easier time peaking over terrain to shoot at units.

If Oblits are 115pts then Contemptor Dreads with Butcher Cannons are even more of a bargain. I think they’d be fair at around 80-85 points.

Malefic discipline, the only thing that helps Possessed is +1inv or reroll d3 attacks right? Hmmm, I’m not sure that’s enough to make them worth it. I do hope I’m not seeing some good combos or strategies.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
1. True but also part of their overpricing, or do you equip marine bodies out of your own will with power weapons?

2 non issue?

3.wrong Oblits, were used as long range support before, when they still had other weapons.

4. Havocs are also infinitely more easily hideable.

So you were saying?

1. It would depend the unit. Vanguard are variable (though still better with all Chainswords typically), Grey Knight Strikes and Interceptors are somewhat playable with Falchions and are held back by other issues in the codex, Berserker Marines always pay for the Chainaxe, etc.
2. Yeah, Plasma IS a non-issue. Other weapons are, but Oblits increased in durability to a few of those weapons.
3. Long range support? With all the two or three weapons you'd choose to use, all of which required you to be close? Lol k
4. If people can hide a Dread, they can hide an Oblit, which has an easier time peaking over terrain to shoot at units.

3. Yes Lascannons and plasma cannons.......