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Some things that a MoP can choose to put the Sacrifice MW onto, at least until it gets FAQ’d:
- Itself (if his Cultist screen is swept)
- the unit it’s healing (if his Cultist screen is swept and there’s snipers around making self-damage dangerous, effectively this means heal D3-1W)
- an enemy MODEL he’s in melee with, or is just outside of melee range from (you pick it. Goodbye, enemy sergeant, melts gunner, ect. Even against multi-Wound model units, this can commit your opponent to putting subsequent wounds on the same model.

...Until the FAQ

 lindsay40k wrote:
- the unit it’s healing (if his Cultist screen is swept and there’s snipers around, effectively this means heal D3-1W)

Hm... So if GW is sloppy and the new Lord has both the Warpsmith and Daemon Engine tags you could heal him a flat 2 by targeting him with both sides of Sacrifice?

That's a neat thought.

And the suggestion in general to sacrifice the healed unit is a smart backup plan to keep in mind.

 inirlan wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
- the unit it’s healing (if his Cultist screen is swept and there’s snipers around, effectively this means heal D3-1W)

Hm... So if GW is sloppy and the new Lord has both the Warpsmith and Daemon Engine tags you could heal him a flat 2 by targeting him with both sides of Sacrifice?

That's a neat thought.

And the suggestion in general to sacrifice the healed unit is a smart backup plan to keep in mind.

Will he have the new powers though?

So here is a problem i am trying to find a solution to. Deathwatch squads of vets with storm shields, storm bolters, and frag cannons. I am thinking mass small arms fire. I did 18 wounds to a tank commander last night from 40 cultists (and 6 cp spent), but thats a 1 trick pony, its not going to work more than 1 time a game max. Any ideas?

You know, the more I think about it, the more I feel there are good tactical merits to deep striking lone Oblits deep behind enemy lines.

It is kinda similar to the Termicide concept we used to have. Back then, it was 3 melta termis for slightly over 100 points. Now we have a lone Oblit which costs 115 but has 6 shots. And with the new improvements to its melee, you can deep strike it down, shoot something, and then try and make the 9 inch charge into something else.

The previous iteration of Oblit has weapons with ap 0, so close combat was distinctly bad for them. They could hang in there given their inherent 2+ save, but it would be easy to tarpit them with any average unit. But now, their melee is actually quite decent at taking out most things - even a vehicle!

And while it makes the most sense to stack stuff like cacophony, prescience, veterans of the long war on a unit of three. There is nothing to say that If you are running just two single obilts, you can still choose to use vets or cacophony on just one Oblit. Its not as efficient, but 12 shots from one Oblit is the equivalent of one of the old squad of three oblit squad firing.

Consider the opponent has an artillery tank and carelessly left two characters open to shooting from the backfield. You deep strike in one lone Oblit. Shoot and kill one character with 6 shots, cacophony and kill another character with shooting. Then you make a 9 inche charge into the artillery tank. You just negated three separate units within one turn, and he still has to get rid of your oblit too, which given its increased toughness and hp now, is not that simple. You really need to unload heavy weapons into an Oblit to do it.

And if you managed to land into or charge into terrain. Then your Oblit now has a 1+ save against shooting too.

Putting 3 Oblits into one squad maximises the efficiency of course. But its so obvious and its all or nothing. Your opponent knows you have a huge hammer coming down and you are planning to stack all sorts of nasty strategems on it when it does.

Also, is it easier to neutralise a unit of 3 oblits or two seperate units of one single Oblit each deep struck far away from each other? I would say the first is far easier to neutralise the unit of three.

Maybe the opponent has smash captains in the midfield or the equivalent. Regardless, a unit of 3 oblits is too juicy a target not to counter charge with one of his good melee units. On the other hand, if its a lone Oblit treated like termicide deep struck deep behind enemy lines. Would he want to pull his smash captain all the way back to kill one Oblit? Now it becomes a far trickier question.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:
So here is a problem i am trying to find a solution to. Deathwatch squads of vets with storm shields, storm bolters, and frag cannons. I am thinking mass small arms fire. I did 18 wounds to a tank commander last night from 40 cultists (and 6 cp spent), but thats a 1 trick pony, its not going to work more than 1 time a game max. Any ideas?

Well, death hex works too, because it takes away their Invul.

The only correct number of Obliterators is zero

^^ Death Hex isn’t a solution to high invuln mid range gunners IMO. Too unreliable, outside of expensive TS casters, and too short ranged. What it is is a scarecrow that makes Thunderwolves and Wulfen and suchlike falter and not run pell-mell at you without DTW coverage, whilst your Death Hexer smites.

As for taking out units like the frag cannon squad - think our best bet is VOTLW & EC on a unit with a high rate of small arms fire. Bikers, Cultist hordes, also honourable mention for allied Pink Horrors with Daemonspark. The former can even play keep away to be fairly sure of getting the first blow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Smite spam could work, if the unit’s not screened.

So, taking a bit and hoping the new lord is not somehow ridiculously 10+ wounds, I think he's the right clincher for a legit force of daemon engines.

I tend to think this is going to be best composed of a baseline of the lord with a defiler (our best non-kytan candidate for daemonforge), along with a daemon prince (all will have comparable moves). Then it becomes the question of the new tick (which will have a much better firing profile moving forward going from a 4+ to a 3+) or mauler fiends. In either case, I think a pair would be good, though...honestly maybe even one of each.

Beyond that, I actually think the best bet is to pair it up with a pure slaanesh detachment. Likely a cheap brigade.. Weirdly enough, I like a herald on seeker chariot for this; I think they will be worth it for their own profile, the +1 strength to all of those units and even hysterical frenzy or symphony of pain. The big reason though is granting advance+charge to all of those units, as well as the potential for the bonus attack on wound rolls of 6 strategem. I think a KoS would also be a-okay going along with this group since it ends up with a very similar profile defense-wise to the rest of them. 3 daemonette units as a chaff then also works well.

 lindsay40k wrote:
^^ Death Hex isn’t a solution to high invuln mid range gunners IMO. Too unreliable, outside of expensive TS casters, and too short ranged. What it is is a scarecrow that makes Thunderwolves and Wulfen and suchlike falter and not run pell-mell at you without DTW coverage, whilst your Death Hexer smites.

As for taking out units like the frag cannon squad - think our best bet is VOTLW & EC on a unit with a high rate of small arms fire. Bikers, Cultist hordes, also honourable mention for allied Pink Horrors with Daemonspark. The former can even play keep away to be fairly sure of getting the first blow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Smite spam could work, if the unit’s not screened.

Death watch vets almost always have a vanguard with jump pack so they can fall back and shoot. So a flack missile + demon shell from else where + any flavor of psychic powers ends them easily. Last thing a chaos player should use is massed shooting. They can easily grab cover or use the terminator to tank shots, with two wounds and a cp reroll your looking a ~48 wounds prior to saves just to down that A hole first.

The 1st answer to DW vets with shields is and always will be mortal wounds. Chaos can do that numerous ways.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
He's fine at over 10 wounds depending on cost and his durability. It's silly to say otherwise. Plenty of things in my army are amazing and can be targeted.

If he is under 10 wounds he's going to questionable stats. That's a 5 wounds HQ on a DE back, so you guys think that DE is a 4 wound model? Besides there is already a winged demon prince for that.

I personally think it's plain lazy design and silly seeing monstrous or vehicle classed models that can not be targeted. I'd be fine with a more durable model.

None of his auras are that amazing so far, so if he has a decent invuln and probably regenerates then I honestly don't care if he attracts fire. They have to shoot something, sometimes it's better saturating them with targets.

It's hard to see this dude replacing a DA and Exalted champ for buffing combat engines anyway. Honestly his +1 to hit is kind of meh. Butcher canon contemptors are already cheaper then decimators lol, why would you spend even more to make a decimator shoot like an already cheaper contemptor? It's even worse on a forge fiend who at this point needs a total rewrite. Hades auto canons had better bump up to heavy 6 in the next codex because that thing is a mess.

The model he has the most synergy with is the new venom crawler, which shouldn't be a surprise.

Two things to keep in mind:
1. His aura is strictly better than the Lord's, so the two in tandem makes sense
2. Dark Apostles and Champs can't actually keep up with the melee Engines, and obviously they're useless for the shooting ones.

1. Sure, but that's a shed load of points to fix shooters, which was my point. He wants to move forward, so he should be with those engines. I just don't see the point in taking garbage ranged DE's over a cheaper contemptor when you need this guy to baby sit as well.

2. I still like DA and exalted champ better, I am having fun with termites though, so I understand why it's harder if your not, but it still isn't impossible. Start them nearly level and advance with them, the 6" range and massive length of the DE's base makes up a lot of difference, won't help if your using warp time on a mauler, but I think the whole point of this guy is to move up in unison anyway.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
The base of that new Lord of Discordant looks quite large. We could fit a fair number of daemon engines within a 6 inch bubble due to its large base if you ask me. It even comes with a possibility of using an autocannon if you plan to sit it with ranged shooting daemon engines.

Combine it with a master of possession and a warp smith, and you get a HQ centre giving out potentially:

1) Reroll 1 to hit and to wound (MOP psychic)
2) 4+ invul (MOP psychic cursed earth)
3) warp smith can can repair. (and a psychic from MOP can heal 3 at the cost of 1 hp to the warpsmith)
4) The Lord of DIscordant giving +1 to hit

So shooty daemon Engines (non forgeworld) include lascannon Defiler with havoc launchers, forgefiend and lord of skulls.

So, put surround that HQ core with 3 forgefiends in front, 3 defilers at the back, and a lord of skulls. It won't be the shootiest army out there, but it will shoot enough. More importantly, its a pretty resilient army, and if anything gets injured, you have the warpsmith and infernal regeneration and even that psychic to heal in a pinch.

And stuff that tries to get into melee with this mass shooty daemon engine death ball won't have a very good time... not just because the lord of discordant looks to be swinging a mean weapon. But three defilers, and a lord of skulls are enough to give even a knight gallant problems.

You would be using a 90pt psycher + this new guys (x)pts to try to band aid patch a 148pt forge fiend.

A contemptor with twin butcher canons is 138 and already hits on 2's and a 70pt lord gets him reroll 1's.

I love my forge fiend conversions but they need a rewrite because even with their current cost they just don't really cut it.

GW broke my heart with the Khorne mower price hike lol. That dude needed to go down not up. He doesn't fit around terrain so sadly you use his shooting more then combat and he just doesn't compete with knights in that department.

You're really suggesting using a 140 point model to transport those though, so that's more points on top of what's already an expensive list. Of course you can load it up with extra stuff, but at that point it isn't focused and it'll be relatively easy to take out. Meanwhile, the new dude and Biker Lord don't need any additional help.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
^^ Death Hex isn’t a solution to high invuln mid range gunners IMO. Too unreliable, outside of expensive TS casters, and too short ranged. What it is is a scarecrow that makes Thunderwolves and Wulfen and suchlike falter and not run pell-mell at you without DTW coverage, whilst your Death Hexer smites.

As for taking out units like the frag cannon squad - think our best bet is VOTLW & EC on a unit with a high rate of small arms fire. Bikers, Cultist hordes, also honourable mention for allied Pink Horrors with Daemonspark. The former can even play keep away to be fairly sure of getting the first blow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Smite spam could work, if the unit’s not screened.

Death watch vets almost always have a vanguard with jump pack so they can fall back and shoot. So a flack missile + demon shell from else where + any flavor of psychic powers ends them easily. Last thing a chaos player should use is massed shooting. They can easily grab cover or use the terminator to tank shots, with two wounds and a cp reroll your looking a ~48 wounds prior to saves just to down that A hole first.

The 1st answer to DW vets with shields is and always will be mortal wounds. Chaos can do that numerous ways.

What you really want is HRoF with low AP. I bet the new Rotor Cannons will help fulfill that need.

Forgefiends would help with that if they could hit the broad side of a barn. One with the new dude and Daemonforge only kills 2.3 of them. Someone made mention of them flying away from melee, but you don't have to worry about that if you hurt enough of them.

Tomorrow I'll face some Orks in a 2000p match. I'll bring along the contents of the Shadowspear box (yes, even the Marines), some Chosen, a Defiler, a Maulerfiend, a Warpsmith and some Death Guard.

Plan is to rush the Daemon Engines up the field, supported by the MoP, Warpsmith and Greater Posessed. MoP will cast the re-roll power and Cursed Earth, Warpsmith will heal (he also has dual Flamers to deter charges). I also have a second Sorcerer with Warptime and Prescience to sling something up the board and likely buff the Oblits.

I'll give you a recap of how the new stuff performed tomorrow.

 lindsay40k wrote:
^^ Death Hex isn’t a solution to high invuln mid range gunners IMO. Too unreliable, outside of expensive TS casters, and too short ranged. What it is is a scarecrow that makes Thunderwolves and Wulfen and suchlike falter and not run pell-mell at you without DTW coverage, whilst your Death Hexer smites.

As for taking out units like the frag cannon squad - think our best bet is VOTLW & EC on a unit with a high rate of small arms fire. Bikers, Cultist hordes, also honourable mention for allied Pink Horrors with Daemonspark. The former can even play keep away to be fairly sure of getting the first blow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Smite spam could work, if the unit’s not screened.

I think this is why it is almost mandatory to take Ahriman in a chaos soup list. Cabalistic focus plus his native +1 mean death hex is reliable and much more efficient in taking down 3++ targets than even doom and jinx (if you have some decent AP weapons).

 KiloFiX wrote:
If you’re going to run a block of 20 Possessed with Herald, you could use a MoN herald. And cast Virulent. And use VotLW. And possibly do 3-4 damage per hit.

I only seem to be able to work out possessed getting 3 damage on 4+ (3+ if Death Guard).

Virulent Blessing adds 1 to wound rolls made for that unit in the Fight phase. Furthermore, wound rolls of 7+ made for that unit in the Fight phase inflict double damage. Then Locus of Virulence means each time you make a wound roll of 6+ for a NURGLE DAEMON unit within 6" of any friendly model with the Locus of Virulence, that attack inflicts 1 additional damage... so 2+1.

VoTLW + 1 to wound
Plaguebringer +1 strength
*If Death Guard Blades of Putrefaction means +1 wound too so activates on 3+ instead of 4+

I'm definetly making Possessed the focus of my next lists as i have 20 Nurgle themed Gal Vorbak I painstakingly converted and I'm now converting up some Nurgle Greater Possessed using all my Nurlge bits I have left over... the decision I have is do I run Death Guard Possessed and go with Blades + Vets or do I run with 20 man units using Renegades to move, adavance + charge and get access to Warptime from a Sorcerer and add in those juicy Greater Possessed? With a Plaguebringer and Greater Possessed my Possessed can be S7 but then they don't get access to Blades + Vets. If I go with Death Guard my gut says not to run them on foot as they're too slow at just M7 but I can put 2 x 9 man units in 2 Dreadclaws and rag them up, Dreadclaws are amazing in DG lists as after they drop the Possessed off they can cause real problems and then when they die you pop them with Putrid Detonation to do multiple mortal wounds.

Anyone got any advice or input? GW put me in a real tough position here as I do really want to run Greater Possessed...

@Kuklops - do you have a blog with those Nurgle Gal Vorbak?Sounds awesome

On the topic of Nurgle Possessed and buffs... I think the CSM+LoP option might be competing with a DG contingent.

Access to improved Advances (pretty sweet if a third detachment brings a Warptimer) has great synergy with M7 & a Gnarlmaw (T1 charges are easily doable). A Plaguecaster can give them Blades of Putrefaction for *another* +1 to wound, and Putrescent Vitality stacks with Poxbringer to give them S7 T5. Add a Tallyman to reroll hits and recoup some of your VOTLW CPs and they fill out a Vanguard.

After that, you can throw in some Blighthaulers to keep them in cover and provide decent tough firepower, and give the CSM detachment some Oblits to enjoy the Gnarlmaw or Blighthaulers, and Epidemius to feed with all this investment in Nurgle Daemon units...

Only problem is this entails four detachments (ND, DG, CSM, Forts), which isn’t ideal in a tourney setting.

 lindsay40k wrote:
@Kuklops - do you have a blog with those Nurgle Gal Vorbak?Sounds awesome

On the topic of Nurgle Possessed and buffs... I think the CSM+LoP option might be competing with a DG contingent.

Access to improved Advances (pretty sweet if a third detachment brings a Warptimer) has great synergy with M7 & a Gnarlmaw (T1 charges are easily doable). A Plaguecaster can give them Blades of Putrefaction for *another* +1 to wound, and Putrescent Vitality stacks with Poxbringer to give them S7 T5. Add a Tallyman to reroll hits and recoup some of your VOTLW CPs and they fill out a Vanguard.

After that, you can throw in some Blighthaulers to keep them in cover and provide decent tough firepower, and give the CSM detachment some Oblits to enjoy the Gnarlmaw or Blighthaulers, and Epidemius to feed with all this investment in Nurgle Daemon units...

Only problem is this entails four detachments (ND, DG, CSM, Forts), which isn’t ideal in a tourney setting.

I don't have pics of them up yet as they're still unpainted and a few have various conversions I'm half way through (adding ball bearings to some of the armour to make them more Nurgly for example), my hobby time has reduced drastically recently but they are next on my table to get done, along with some of my other Death Guard stuff. I'm painting them in DG colours to keep all my models uniform, then I can use them as DG, Renegades, AL or whatever. I will get pics up on here by the summer though as I'm very happy with how they're looking.

Back to Possessed. I don't want to take 4 detachments, my friends and I usually play 1250-1500 point games to keep games quick and so we can all play multiple games in an afternoon/evening, when I play tournaments in England they tend to be 2000 points but limit you to 3 detachments and in doubles tournaments they make you take a 1k list first that you build on for 2k... so all of those things mean I really need to limit my army design to 2 or 3 detachments. I've used Possessed several times in 8th and not been too impressed, the problem they have is getting into melee, once they're there they're not Berserkers but they're pretty good at killing most things so long as you don't roll a 1 for their attacks (thanks GW).

Now, starting with a base of units at around <1250 points I'm thinking about the DG bonus for being Battle Forged, do I really care? In this list no, sure the Greater Possessed +1S won't buff the Possessed (lol, DG Possessed are obv not real Daemons) but they're there as mini Lords to Heroic Invervention into stuff they can beat up, in fact I'd say they're better than Lords as they're expendable units, I can always get +1S from the Plaguebringers and +1 to wound from Blades, +1 wound from Virulent Blessing, & +1 wound from VoTLW is better against high T units anyway.
I need a Nurgle Daemons detachment because the Gnarlmaw needs the possibility to Deep Strike using Denziens of the Warp if I'm expecting to get charged and need to fall back and charge myself (say againt GSC or Orks), it can be deployed in deployment when playing gunlines and the move/advance/charge (Warptime) is more useful.

Nurgle detachment (aprox 840pts)
Malignant Plaguecaster
Master of Possession/Sorcerer (is Malefic better than Heretic... depends on need for Warptime/Death Hex I guess)
Possessed x 20
Tallyman x 1
Greater Possessed x 2

Daemons Detachment (377pts)
Plaguebringer
Plaguebringer
Nurglings x 3
Nurglings x 3
Nurglings x 3
Gnarlmaw x 1


Tallyman + Blades + VoTLW + Virulent Blessing + Locus mean the Possessed should be re-rolling hits and wounding T8 on 2+ with wounds of 3+ doing D3. Greater Possessed should be doing Dd3+1 so potentially 4 damage from them too. Relic will prob be Corruption on a Plaguebringer as they're not too shabby in melee too... or maybe I should run Epidemius?

The only issue I have is that the Plaguebringers, Greater Possessed, Talyman can get left behind if Warptime throws the Possessed up the board... Solutions?... Conga line?

Hmm. My own WB characters don’t care about their Legion trait, either... a Nurgle Supreme command or Vanguard might be in order for me at some point.

And yeah, a twenty strong unit can afford to Conga back to the Warptimer

So this is half tactics half painting, but fakk it, I'M A MAN.

Firstly, is Abby essential for a black legion army? Is it basically like not running Ahriman in T-sons, where it basically just makes no sense not to?

Secondly, would a red/gold paint scheme be fine when running a black legion army? I really don't want to repaint my army, but World Eaters has gotten stale to me (only so many times I can play rhino rush), Renegades lose out on WAY too many important things to play, and Word Bearers are...Well, useless, compared to the better legions like BL and AL.

 vaklor4 wrote:
So this is half tactics half painting, but fakk it, I'M A MAN.

Firstly, is Abby essential for a black legion army? Is it basically like not running Ahriman in T-sons, where it basically just makes no sense not to?

Secondly, would a red/gold paint scheme be fine when running a black legion army? I really don't want to repaint my army, but World Eaters has gotten stale to me (only so many times I can play rhino rush), Renegades lose out on WAY too many important things to play, and Word Bearers are...Well, useless, compared to the better legions like BL and AL.

If you are worried just paint one shoulder pads black and call it a day. Even most tournaments I attend have armies that are count as with zero issue.

 vaklor4 wrote:
So this is half tactics half painting, but fakk it, I'M A MAN.

Firstly, is Abby essential for a black legion army? Is it basically like not running Ahriman in T-sons, where it basically just makes no sense not to?

Secondly, would a red/gold paint scheme be fine when running a black legion army? I really don't want to repaint my army, but World Eaters has gotten stale to me (only so many times I can play rhino rush), Renegades lose out on WAY too many important things to play, and Word Bearers are...Well, useless, compared to the better legions like BL and AL.

Abigail is like the main reason the Black Legion trait is so bad. It was written under the assumption you're always taking him and making use of his auras.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
So this is half tactics half painting, but fakk it, I'M A MAN.

Firstly, is Abby essential for a black legion army? Is it basically like not running Ahriman in T-sons, where it basically just makes no sense not to?

Secondly, would a red/gold paint scheme be fine when running a black legion army? I really don't want to repaint my army, but World Eaters has gotten stale to me (only so many times I can play rhino rush), Renegades lose out on WAY too many important things to play, and Word Bearers are...Well, useless, compared to the better legions like BL and AL.

Abigail is like the main reason the Black Legion trait is so bad. It was written under the assumption you're always taking him and making use of his auras.

This is a fine theory but it doesn't really hold up, Calgar and Gullimun both have similar auras and smurfs still have one of the best traits. Black legion trait sucks, but at least they have Abby, poor word bearers totally got the shaft. I think for your theory to hold water Games workshop would need to actually write consistent rules sets

To answer the question though, you don't need to take abbadon, but he is really strong in certain lists when you build around him and it really depends on the size of the game.

As for painting, I'd play some games as is before changing your armies look on impulse. World eaters may get some new ways to play in the next book after all.

I would enjoy new toys for world eaters, but tbh it's the lack of psykers that kills it for me. I love playing Khorne still, but it makes the game EXTREMELY mono-strategy. If I don't go melee rush, im wasting World Eaters, so theres little room for change.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
So this is half tactics half painting, but fakk it, I'M A MAN.

Firstly, is Abby essential for a black legion army? Is it basically like not running Ahriman in T-sons, where it basically just makes no sense not to?

Secondly, would a red/gold paint scheme be fine when running a black legion army? I really don't want to repaint my army, but World Eaters has gotten stale to me (only so many times I can play rhino rush), Renegades lose out on WAY too many important things to play, and Word Bearers are...Well, useless, compared to the better legions like BL and AL.

Abigail is like the main reason the Black Legion trait is so bad. It was written under the assumption you're always taking him and making use of his auras.

This is a fine theory but it doesn't really hold up, Calgar and Gullimun both have similar auras and smurfs still have one of the best traits. Black legion trait sucks, but at least they have Abby, poor word bearers totally got the shaft. I think for your theory to hold water Games workshop would need to actually write consistent rules sets

To answer the question though, you don't need to take abbadon, but he is really strong in certain lists when you build around him and it really depends on the size of the game.

As for painting, I'd play some games as is before changing your armies look on impulse. World eaters may get some new ways to play in the next book after all.

And if you'll notice, Word Bearers have one of THE best Warlord traits and Relics. Strategem requires a lot of building around though, which is why I'm playing with how to tackle a summoning castle and make it Word Bearers and not suck.

This is mostly a consistency though when it comes to the main Heroes. I'd argue how lame Sautekh is as a Dynasty because you have the Stormlord to use. Goffs have Ghazzy and their trait is easily the worst. Abigail was already talked about.

Pretty sure emperor's children have the worst legion trait, it is really situational vs some armies it basically does nothing. Though they do get the added bonus of getting noise marine troops.

 Rydria wrote:
Pretty sure emperor's children have the worst legion trait, it is really situational vs some armies it basically does nothing. Though they do get the added bonus of getting noise marine troops.

We should just agree those first Marine codices weren't exactly handled well in general.

And from what it seems, they won't be fixing them at all come the new updated codex. Just new datasheets and cleaned up points. (which is nice, ill admit.)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Pretty sure emperor's children have the worst legion trait, it is really situational vs some armies it basically does nothing. Though they do get the added bonus of getting noise marine troops.

We should just agree those first Marine codices weren't exactly handled well in general.

Yeah I can agree to this, we did however come out of this with some great stratagems like votlw, and the slaanesh shot twice stratagem.


So world eaters, emperor's children deathguard and thousand sons where the only legions to not get a example colour scheme with the new chaos space marine kit, the later two already have codexes, so for those of you who play EC or WE what will you do when/if they get their own codexes and they lose access to some of the older models ?

I'm personally going to make my own renegade chapter and have my models that can no longer be apart of my legion be apart of that new army.

 Rydria wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Pretty sure emperor's children have the worst legion trait, it is really situational vs some armies it basically does nothing. Though they do get the added bonus of getting noise marine troops.

We should just agree those first Marine codices weren't exactly handled well in general.

Yeah I can agree to this, we did however come out of this with some great stratagems like votlw, and the slaanesh shot twice stratagem.


So world eaters, emperor's children deathguard and thousand sons where the only legions to not get a example colour scheme with the new chaos space marine kit, the later two already have codexes, so for those of you who play EC or WE what will you do when/if they get their own codexes and they lose access to some of the older models ?

I'm personally going to make my own renegade chapter and have my models that can no longer be apart of my legion be apart of that new army.

Would you actually go renegade legion, or just take a legion and call it a custom legion? I can't justify Renegade Chapters when you lose VotLW, a relic, a stratagem and a warlord trait.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Pretty sure emperor's children have the worst legion trait, it is really situational vs some armies it basically does nothing. Though they do get the added bonus of getting noise marine troops.

We should just agree those first Marine codices weren't exactly handled well in general.

Yeah I can agree to this, we did however come out of this with some great stratagems like votlw, and the slaanesh shot twice stratagem.


So world eaters, emperor's children deathguard and thousand sons where the only legions to not get a example colour scheme with the new chaos space marine kit, the later two already have codexes, so for those of you who play EC or WE what will you do when/if they get their own codexes and they lose access to some of the older models ?

I'm personally going to make my own renegade chapter and have my models that can no longer be apart of my legion be apart of that new army.

Would you actually go renegade legion, or just take a legion and call it a custom legion? I can't justify Renegade Chapters when you lose VotLW, a relic, a stratagem and a warlord trait.

supposedly renegades are getting some new shiney things in vigilus, but I would go renegades, VOTLW is amazing but I always wanted to try the renegade chapter tactic with my bikers anyway.

 Rydria wrote:
for those of you who play EC or WE what will you do when/if they get their own codexes and they lose access to some of the older models?

My CSM/World Eaters will become fully fledged World Eaters and whatever model's/units that isn't included in the World Eater-codex will be banished to the void, also known as the closet.

Already happened to my Thousand Sons. That army used to contain plenty of units that was removed the new codex (mostly older MoTz-stuff like Terminators, CSM, Possessed, Raptors etc.), and they either forcefully joined my CSM/World Eaters or got stuffed away.

Thinking about it, I have a ton of old CSM-model's in the closet that I don't use because I either can't (Thousand Sons) or don't want/need to add to my World Eaters.
Perhaps I'll turn them into another Chaos army one day, or I'll just sell them...or they'll stay in the closet for another 5 years.