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Not Online!!! wrote: So maybee i have gone insane, but hear me out, i'd like to make a full PA company, basically I want exactly 100 Csm, with csm i include havocs.
How would you go about equipping your 100 csm, weaponry wise and especially what charachters would you field to support such an army?
Atm i am Stuck with an idea of three battalions lead by sorcerers Warpsmiths and some lords.
The trait i'd pick would be AL. Ofcourse Slaanesh marks galore.
Are you okay with this army being a cool looking setpiece that will never see the table? Because uh. This ain't gonna win any games.
vaklor4 wrote: Im starting to think everything EXCEPT black legion will be like this. One or two little things.
Vigilus Ablaze: The Black Legion beta codex.
I think the funniest part is that nothing in the Iron Warriors preview (other than the legion trait which is unchanged from the original) is actually unique to the Iron Warriors. The Devastation Battery is a Chaos Space Marines detachment, it can be used by anyone other than TS and DG.
Essentially we learned nothing about what tools the Iron Warriors get in the new book with this preview. Presumably they're going to get something exclusive to them but you sure wouldn't know it from the preview page.
That's because they aren't getting any new tools. GW had an opportunity to fix some of the issues their terrible rules writers put in the first edition of this codex, and instead they aren't fixing a single damn thing, just including the new units and some vagilus detachments.
Not Online!!! wrote: So maybee i have gone insane, but hear me out, i'd like to make a full PA company, basically I want exactly 100 Csm, with csm i include havocs.
How would you go about equipping your 100 csm, weaponry wise and especially what charachters would you field to support such an army?
Atm i am Stuck with an idea of three battalions lead by sorcerers Warpsmiths and some lords.
The trait i'd pick would be AL. Ofcourse Slaanesh marks galore.
Are you okay with this army being a cool looking setpiece that will never see the table? Because uh. This ain't gonna win any games.
It merely is a thought experiment, how would you run it most effectively then, remember technically you have 700 pts left.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Not Online!!! wrote: So maybee i have gone insane, but hear me out, i'd like to make a full PA company, basically I want exactly 100 Csm, with csm i include havocs.
How would you go about equipping your 100 csm, weaponry wise and especially what charachters would you field to support such an army?
Atm i am Stuck with an idea of three battalions lead by sorcerers Warpsmiths and some lords.
The trait i'd pick would be AL. Ofcourse Slaanesh marks galore.
Are you okay with this army being a cool looking setpiece that will never see the table? Because uh. This ain't gonna win any games.
It merely is a thought experiment, how would you run it most effectively then, remember technically you have 700 pts left.
I’m torn between ‘a hundred Havocs’ or ‘fifteen Heretacs and eighty-five Havocs’
Maaaaybe a Raptor plasma squad or two
Automatically Appended Next Post: THAT SAID, do wait and see what all the Legions get, the Word Bearers had a crusaders type detachment in 7ed that did something kind of interesting (but I never built enough stuff to try out before 8ed)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/19 23:40:19
Yeah, who knows, we may end up with a specialist detachment that makes CSM absolute monsters you'll see at top tables. Extremely unlikely, but it's not like there isn't precedent for formations boosting up models that are crap without them.
Probably either black legion with abs and large units or alpha legion with small units. Either way I would take quite a few chosen with combi bolters.
Something like: (Brigade):
Abs
Sorc
Lord (because abs can't touch the whole army)
15 CSM (champ has combi bolter)
15 CSM (champ has combi bolter)
5 CSM (champ has combi bolter)
5 CSM (champ has combi bolter)
5 CSM (champ has combi bolter)
5 CSM (champ has combi bolter)
Chosen (combi bolters) x3
Raptors (plasma x2, combi plasma) x3
Havocs (Autocannon x4) x3
Two big targets for endless cacophony and vets + full rerolls + presence will do...something probably. Better because of bolter discipline. I would walk forward and try to kill every troop you can. With buffs and strategms you'll drop about 100 guardsman a turn, which isn't nothing, or about 70~ boys. Abadon and your lord which some relic will do a fair job of killing most scary things that would come your way in melee (other than orc hordes). Once you've killed all of the enemy troops, go for objectives; you have 55 obsec bodies to work with.
I am wondering if a heavy plasma chosen spam list with Abaddon in it would work. (Trying to make the black legion work here because my army has always been painted black legion). Have Abaddon advance up the centre of the field with two troops of CSM with plasma, along with one 40 man cultist squad, then follow behind this whole lot with plasma wielding chosen. They will move advance and shoot once first turn using the black legion trait. Second turn they should be in range to start double tapping. Have a squad of plasma terminators waiting to deep strike in with a Sorceror Lord with that new warlord trait. Have a triple plasma squad of bikes waiting to charge in ahead to use that speartip strategem. Something along these lines. Just abuse all the rerolls to hit and spam overcharged plasma shots.
Btw, the new iron warriors warlord trait makes IW oblits even more scary than they already are. Plus IW oblits can be mark of slanaash, so can use Cacophony and vets of course.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/20 06:12:06
That's not a IW trait, it's generic. Still better on AL.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That 'preview' was literally:
1) Reprint 2-year old IW trait
2) Show new generic csm detachment that is underwhelming
3) Show new generic csm detachment's trait, which is also underwhelming
4) Reprint 2-year old rules for a Warpsmith
... Talk about a buzzkill
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/20 10:22:05
Honestly, I dont think it's an issue that they create universal rules and then frame it to be for x legion. I prefer there being as little legion-restricted rules as possible since it promotes more options when building lists. It being limited to legion trait, warlord trait and an occasional stratagem is fine by me.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
Wow, that is...Trash. Rerolling hits is basically just rerolling 2s, since youll always have a mobile lord in tow with these guys, and the -1 LD for a command point is not at all worth the price of admission.
Now that's cool for the Night Lords player in our group, stacking another -1 on top of Night Lords, Nurgle banner and being a raptor is pretty nice.
It will make me sad to see my Plague Marines running
So looking at the practical usage of that first stratagem - you need to destroy 1 unit with the Raptors, but have them finish that kill positioned within 6" of another, non-fearless squad, that you have also put causalities on this turn with your other units, but haven't entirely wiped, and then for the cost of 2 CP, you get to give that specific unit -1 LD during their moral phase. And all this will only last you one turn.
Seems far too niche to be at all useful, and it's not the sort of niche stratagem where it happens like one in 50 games and you can be like "oh, got a stratagem for that", because you have to pay 1 CP in advance on the Detachment before you even know if it will come up. Hell, you have to pay that CP in the list building phase before you even know if you're facing something like Tyranids with full Fearless everywhere.
If it was just a bonus on top of another good stratagem then maybe, but the other one is extremely low impact too. How big do Raptor squads get, like 10 large? and as said, you're already re-rolling 1s?
Hard pass for me. CP is so valuable already in this army.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
If this is the kind of love gw is going to give chaos then they can keep it...
Seriously though, while its nice nothing there would make me go "i want to start this army because of this." Vicious decent is ok, but its pretty limited on its use. Unless your going to use it on raptors to help with their shooting its pretty bad. Nothing there would help a warp talon squad charge after deep striking which is their problem. Even with full reroll from a khorne detachment its not the best odds of getting the charge off after deep strike, so they still are just expensive and not very good.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If this is the kind of love gw is going to give chaos then they can keep it...
Seriously though, while its nice nothing there would make me go "i want to start this army because of this." Vicious decent is ok, but its pretty limited on its use. Unless your going to use it on raptors to help with their shooting its pretty bad. Nothing there would help a warp talon squad charge after deep striking which is their problem. Even with full reroll from a khorne detachment its not the best odds of getting the charge off after deep strike, so they still are just expensive and not very good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/20 14:47:53
vaklor4 wrote: Wow, that is...Trash. Rerolling hits is basically just rerolling 2s, since youll always have a mobile lord in tow with these guys, and the -1 LD for a command point is not at all worth the price of admission.
Well, it does remove the need for a Lord (or freeing your Lord up to go somewhere else), allowing for a very cheap overcharged plasma delivery system (75 points + 1CP for 6 shots). Alternatively, this can be pretty nasty on a blob of Warp Talons with a nearby Khorne Herald to give them a realistic chance to make it into CC.
Those strats arent very good.... maybe they will get a cool trait and relic.
Man, GW needs to stop with this leadership crap.
Nah, they just should do it right. Many enjoy the idea of a leadership breaking army....but this is just bad.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
Well 3 from 8 are done so far and we get nothing.
Fan bloody tastic
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Yeah it's really weird. Why make such beautiful models, trumpet Vigilus II, and then release the most underwhelming rules-previews in this edition's history? Am perplexed.
I doubt the WL traits and Relics will change btw, as the Legion Traits are staying exactly the same.
All this is doing to making me not want to bother picking up Vigilus 2, and is helping to fuel the salt in me today
As I’ve said in other threads and on reddit. This is completely and utterly pointless and useless, and will never see the light of day in semi-competitive play or competitive local metas. Let alone actual competitive play.
So far it looks like Chaos is possibly even getting worse in Vigilus thanks to the Cultist nerf, and that's so hilariously typical of GW concerning CSM that I can't help but just sigh. Right on the heels of Shadowspear removing Obliteraters from competitive play entirely. I don't even play this army and I'm so glad I didn't. GW seems adamant that you guys must be SM -1 at all times and they aren't at all discreet about it or at all good at making it somewhat close. You get cool models so that you look good losing to the loyalists, hoping for more is a pipedream. This is my number 1 complaint about current GW.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/20 15:48:18
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
SHUPPET wrote: So looking at the practical usage of that first stratagem - you need to destroy 1 unit with the Raptors, but have them finish that kill positioned within 6" of another, non-fearless squad, that you have also put causalities on this turn with your other units, but haven't entirely wiped, and then for the cost of 2 CP, you get to give that specific unit -1 LD during their moral phase. And all this will only last you one turn. [...]
If it makes any difference, the stratagem effects units within 6" of *all* Host Raptorial units, so you could finish off an enemy unit with raptors/talons at one end of the board, and then have a squad of raptors/talons at the other end give -1 LD to a different unit. Not that it suddenly makes it a great stratagem, though.
What do you think of this ? Put 3x2 greater possessed in a terrax pattern assault drill. Add 5 possessed and a MoP. Pick sacrifice and cursed earth for the MoP. Deepstrike, disembark, cast cursed earth, and all greater possessed and possessed within 6" of the MoP have a 4+ inv. If one of them loses wounds cast sacrifice on a greater possessed for 1MW and heal D3 on the wounded model.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.