Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here is a Reaper Chain Cannon, a Plasma Gun, and a bolter on vanilla CSM.



This assumes 24" and stationary. So at 12" you'll need to double the plasma. If they moved, the Reaper gets worse due to -1 to hit, and the bolter could lose its second shot.

Interesting to note that the bolter is more efficient than the plasma against some infantry, but not once the plasma gets it second shot. And of course the reaper is just incredible. The plasma about breaks even with it against vehicles and multi-wound models, and beats it in those categories when close enough for its second shot of course.

Also in my original image, I had copied a cell wrong and calculated the lascannons a 34 pts instead of 39. I've updated it. It doesn't change anything major, as it was only a few points off.

EDIT: Reposting the Havoc comparison because I'd had a mistake. The Autocannon and Lascannon were done with full re-rolls, not just 1's. Corrected now. So they are slightly worse, but same overall conclusions.

So from what I can see chain cannons might just be the go to weapon to take on every platform almost. It's incredibly versatile and is only really let down by the 24" inch range. Drown the word in gatling cannons.

With havoks, CSM, terminators, obliterators and Dark Apostles getting new resized models, I kinda feel like getting rid of my CSM army. I have about 100 infantry models from the old kits of those. Replacing and repainting those with all of the new models is something I don't really want to go through and now I just feel unsatisfied playing with my old proportioned models, knowing that better ones exist. It's like all the new kits are just discouraging me from playing my CSM army. Anyone else get this feeling?

Nah, not me. I'm WAY WAY WAY too cheap and lazy to replace my old marines with new ones.

Double for me. My old marines are black legion, and they are fine the way they are. My new marines will be red corsairs. Its just the way it is lol.

Assembled the shadowspear chaos Marines and placed them next to my normal "old" chaos Marines and it is just sad. Like, not even just the height but the bulk and detail. I've resigned myself to accepting I'm going to just replace them all now.

Also, in my modeling journey, the age of sigmar blood warriors are beyond perfect berserker substitutes if you just add a backpack. Now everything is gonna be bulky and properly sized now.

Azuza001 wrote:
Double for me. My old marines are black legion, and they are fine the way they are. My new marines will be red corsairs. Its just the way it is lol.

Hmm, that gives me an idea. I could use the new marines to make an alpha legion force and keep my old iron warriors. I could reuse the cultists and daemon princes between both armies too, so i'd just need the apostle, 3 obliterators, 10 havoks, and 10 terminators from the new wave. I got so many bald unhelmeted marine heads that I could use.

Is anyone else super annoyed that gw seemed to suggest that if you had the old codex all you would need is the vigulus ablaze for all the updated sheets and rules and then when they got the book today found it to not be true at all.

I mean, look at the cultists situation. I own codex 1, shadowspear chaos codex, and vigulus ablaze and in all of that there is nothing saying that chaos cultists are now max squad size 30. But the new codex says that (i have a friend who did get codex 2 so i verified in that). Only reason i even knew to look was it was leaked that the change was coming.

I hope gw posts an faq up asap to answer some of these "misconceptions" as well as address the oblits point cost issue.

And the fact Oblits say they are 65 points in the new codex too

Terminator sprue pictures are up on the New Zealand GW site and it's pretty garbage. Looks like i'm not using the new terminators at all. Shame, since the models look nice.

There's only:
2 combi-meltas
2 combi flamers
1 combi plasma
1 maul
1 axe
1 chainaxe
1 sword
1 chainfist
3 fists
2 lightning claws

It's tough because there is a lot of options in the kit, so I can't really fault them for not putting more. But it's a case of a unit that has a huge amount of choices, but only a couple of them are any good.

We'll need to just convert or use 3rd party bitz.

Anyone know the size comparison between the new terminators and the cataphractii terminators? I might just get the power axe upgrade set from forgeworld and use those as chainaxes on my cataphractii terminators since they look like chainaxes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boogles wrote:
Anyone know the size comparison between the new terminators and the cataphractii terminators? I might just get the power axe upgrade set from forgeworld and use those as chainaxes on my cataphractii terminators since they look like chainaxes

I looked at the pictures of the website and they look roughly the same height and bulk, so i'm just going to stick with cataphractii armor

Wow! The options are a bit underwhelming. I was hoping for two of each option.

I think the slight scale up reeeeeaaalllly helps them aesthetically. They look more menacing and less cartoony.

I think this kit calls for magnets. Oh joy.

Im still going to need a block of ten.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
It's tough because there is a lot of options in the kit, so I can't really fault them for not putting more. But it's a case of a unit that has a huge amount of choices, but only a couple of them are any good.

We'll need to just convert or use 3rd party bitz.

I would agree with you if I hadn't ever assembled wolf guard terminators. Just go look at those sprue pics and tell me they couldn't have done more lol.

"Your terminators come stock with chainaxes"

ONE CHAINAXE.

What a complete and total farce. Even the old box had more weapons!

Good thing i have all those left over chain axes from beserker boxes....

 vaklor4 wrote:
"Your terminators come stock with chainaxes"

ONE CHAINAXE.

What a complete and total farce. Even the old box had more weapons!

the old box also had more ornate shoulders, i like the new box but for the price they are asking, i am very much not liking the new box. Also gloriously stating the new normal equipment will be chain axes and combibolter and then literally not putting enough base equipment in the box is just bad buissness practice.

Anyone else looking at a Flawless Host Daemon Prince? With the Slannesh relic from the book he is ST8, 8 attacks -2ap d2 with claws. Then you give him the Flawless Host warlord trait and each 6 to hit is now 3 hits!! That seems like it will be crazy good.

 xeen wrote:
Anyone else looking at a Flawless Host Daemon Prince? With the Slannesh relic from the book he is ST8, 8 attacks -2ap d2 with claws. Then you give him the Flawless Host warlord trait and each 6 to hit is now 3 hits!! That seems like it will be crazy good.

Well, each 6 grants an additional attack for death to the false emperor and 3 additional for his WLT/renegade trait. So you still need to roll to hit but yea, the dude is a blender even compared to the old blender prince lol.

Give him diabolic strength and he is S9 with 9 attacks, prescience him and he gets 4 additional attacks on every 5+ to hit verse imperial units. Use veterans of the long war or a DA and he is wounding a knight on 2's. His maximum damage output in that case would be 90 damage lol. His average would be more then enough to one shot a knight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also saw a review video discussing a chaos lord with jump pack from the raptoral host (not the field commander) with a chainsword from black legion. Give him the relic that is AP-3 2 damage and mortal wounds on a 6 to wound then give him the flames of spite WLT so for every 6 to wound he causes 2 mortal wounds. You can then use the nearby field commander to have a 7" charge on the drop and pop votlw so you cause 2 mortals on a 5+ and you could potentially swing twice if you make him mark of khorne. Thats quite a bit of damage for a 90 point character. You could also do it with night lords (claws of the black hunt) or alpha legion (teeth of the hydra) just as easily. I think dropping in chaos lords sounds viable and fun.

It's kinda amazing how much better their Chainsword is compared to the Alpha Legion one.

Not really. Alpha legion trait is better than black legion by far, so its a fair trade.

Azuza001 wrote:
Not really. Alpha legion trait is better than black legion by far, so its a fair trade.

I was talking about the weapon itself. For a unit with Jump Packs though, you're probably gonna still die quickly.

I'm already working with an Alpha Legion Vanguard with ×3 6 Chosen with 5 Combi-Bolters and a Chaincannon. For the cost, it is really good firepower.

In case there are any hardy Word Bearers fans here, Dark Apostles can no longer take the Cursed Crozius relic, as it replaces a power maul while the new Dark Apostle no longer uses one. Lazy editing as usual.

The Bearers players are so used to gut punches that one more might not register.

Marshal Loss wrote:In case there are any hardy Word Bearers fans here, Dark Apostles can no longer take the Cursed Crozius relic, as it replaces a power maul while the new Dark Apostle no longer uses one. Lazy editing as usual.

Eldarain wrote:The Bearers players are so used to gut punches that one more might not register.

Just played a game versus a Craftsworld tourny army with Brazen Beasts and...Dear lord was it brutal. My Berzerkers with the Brazen Beasts -4 AP on a 6 wound turned them into an absolute blender of a unit, and the stratagem to puke out mortal wounds from your demon engines pairs very nicely with a turn 1 charge Heldrake.

Sightless helm will be quite nice on a Lord Discordant with Baleflamer... he doesn't care about his BS and it makes ALL of his weapons -1 AP better. AP -3 Baleflamer, AP -3 spear, AP -3 Helstalker legs and AP-5 Technovirus Injector

Nice!

AFAICT we’re the first faction to receive a post-8.0-Codex Power Levels revision? This can have consequences for reserve-heavy lists, plus events that use PL for lists (still seems pretty common in shop games evening campaigns).

Pandabeer wrote:
Sightless helm will be quite nice on a Lord Discordant with Baleflamer... he doesn't care about his BS and it makes ALL of his weapons -1 AP better. AP -3 Baleflamer, AP -3 spear, AP -3 Helstalker legs and AP-5 Technovirus Injector

That wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'm personally leaning towards the Brazen Beasts Fleshplate. The additional movement is nice, but the 2+ it confers is pretty important to me.

Soooooo The Purge Obliterators.... yep.

3 of them, nurgle, in an epidemus list killed: relic scorpius, around 16 scouts, smash captain, and a few sternguard and veterans w Stormshields, essentially pinning a girlyman list. End of game i had lost 1, they charged into telion + 2 remianjng scouts, but they survived (he made all his saves). But they saved my bacon.

I was running an Epidemus centered list using PBCs, oblits, and defilers. Defilers still meh... 2 charged the smash captain, one after another, and the damn smash captain killed both eveb using demonforge to reroll everything. He kept making his saves :/